Network Marketing

[Fred]

Don't spit on me till you hear me out. We all know that MLM companies mark their products up 6 to 10 times so that some guy upline can get a fat commission. We all know that one has to recruit a boat load of people in order to make the big money. In the process, some people spend money they can't afford and then call you a shyster.

Well, just suppose that none of that were true. Would it make a difference?

I have joined a few and made a little money, but spent a lot also. Between 3 and 5 years ago I spent over $30,000 each year on Craigslist ads. I got half of it back. Problem was I got in too late. People that got in two years before me are now millionaires. Because of the CBD craze. But the CBD craze is over.

Okay, so why would I be stupid enough to join another one, you might ask?

A guy sends me an email. I've known him for several years. He tells me about a new wholesale buyers club. Think Costco. You spend $49.95 one time to join and then just $9.95 a month for as long as you want to be a member of the wholesale club. The products are health oriented like typical MLMs. But instead of $130 for 30 ml of 750 strength CBD oil, it is just $18. But just like Costco, there is no obligation to buy anything, ever. It is a network marketing company operated by a couple of well experienced MLMers that between them paid a billion dollars in commissions from their respective companies. But a person can actually earn over $2000 a month without ever sponsoring, referring, or enrolling a single person, ever!

The guy earned $3000 his first 4 weeks. He is an Internet marketer. I earned just under $500 my first 3 weeks.

Whoa, what? Yup.

I don't want this to be viewed as an ad. Utah is the MLM capital of the world. I'm just making anyone that is interested, aware that things have changed. The MLM industry will never be the same. This changes everything.

If anyone is interested, just go to http://EasiestMoney.org and take a peek.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I just sent you an email and then ran into this thread. Okay I'm learning some more. Glad you posted this!

[Original_Intent]

.... Problem was I got in too late. People that got in two years before me are now millionaires. Because of the CBD craze. But the CBD craze is over.

The above sentence says it all and is the calling card of every Ponzi scheme. You gotta get in early enough.

[Fred]

.... Problem was I got in too late. People that got in two years before me are now millionaires. Because of the CBD craze. But the CBD craze is over.

The above sentence says it all and is the calling card of every Ponzi scheme. You gotta get in early enough.

Yes. But remove the hype, expensive products, and need to recruit and it no longer makes a difference.

[Shawn Henry]

Just so we're understanding you, first we hear you out and then we spit on you, right?

[Fred]

Just so we're understanding you, first we hear you out and then we spit on you, right?

Some do. I try to discourage it.

[anonymous91]

Don't spit on me till you hear me out. We all know that MLM companies mark their products up 6 to 10 times so that some guy upline can get a fat commission. We all know that one has to recruit a boat load of people in order to make the big money. In the process, some people spend money they can't afford and then call you a shyster.

Well, just suppose that none of that were true. Would it make a difference?

I have joined a few and made a little money, but spent a lot also. Between 3 and 5 years ago I spent over $30,000 each year on Craigslist ads. I got half of it back. Problem was I got in too late. People that got in two years before me are now millionaires. Because of the CBD craze. But the CBD craze is over.

Okay, so why would I be stupid enough to join another one, you might ask?

A guy sends me an email. I've known him for several years. He tells me about a new wholesale buyers club. Think Costco. You spend $49.95 one time to join and then just $9.95 a month for as long as you want to be a member of the wholesale club. The products are health oriented like typical MLMs. But instead of $130 for 30 ml of 750 strength CBD oil, it is just $18. But just like Costco, there is no obligation to buy anything, ever. It is a network marketing company operated by a couple of well experienced MLMers that between them paid a billion dollars in commissions from their respective companies. But a person can actually earn over $2000 a month without ever sponsoring, referring, or enrolling a single person, ever!

The guy earned $3000 his first 4 weeks. He is an Internet marketer. I earned just under $500 my first 3 weeks.

Whoa, what? Yup.

I don't want this to be viewed as an ad. Utah is the MLM capital of the world. I'm just making anyone that is interested, aware that things have changed. The MLM industry will never be the same. This changes everything.

If anyone is interested, just go to http://EasiestMoney.org and take a peek.

I'm actually aware of this company, I've seen some pretty heavy hitters in the make-money-online marketing niche marketing it heavily too. I've been researching the company a bit, and here is what I've found so far:

1. People advertising this are claiming that once you paid the $49.95 ($40 one-time affiliate fee + 9.95 monthly fee to get the "club" discount) then the only expense is the $9.95 monthly fee to get the "club" discount. Many of these marketers are claiming that you don't have to buy any products either.

In fact, they are pushing the "myth" that you can just sit back & chill while they fill your forced 2x15 matrix for you, which will generate a potential monthly income of $2,047.50 per Month. It doesn't help that the company reinforces this idea right on the company site. Here is the exact quote:

In fact, you can earn up to $2,047.50 per MONTH without ever enrolling a single person!

And if you decide to share our amazing products and compensation plan with others, you can earn even more!

On another page of the company site, it clearly says the following on their Rank Qualifications page:

*Active members are members who placed an order for the current month.

Then I went and started reading the Terms & Conditions, and I found a couple of red flags.

First, the definition of an active affiliate seems unclear, and the Terms & Conditions didn't help clear up this confusion. I've included 2 paragraphs that seem to contradict each other, here's the first paragraph:

There are no required product purchases to maintain your status as a
Customer, Member, or Affiliate

This seems to directly contradict what is stated on the company site. So, is it required or not to purchase monthly products?

Here is the next paragraph that just adds to the confusion:

Customers, Members, or Affiliates should not participate in LiveGood under the expectation of
earning income without referring new Customers, Members, or Affiliates and Customers. Neither
LiveGood, nor its Customers, Members, or Affiliates can guarantee "spillover" or earnings simply by
becoming a Customer, Member, or Affiliate. LiveGood Customers, Members, or Affiliates should not
participate in LiveGood opportunity if they are not planning on sharing the products with others.

So, now the Terms & Conditions are saying that buying products is expected. Furthermore, this once again contradicts what the company has on its own website where they infer that you can make money without referring a single person.

Then the Terms & Conditions goes on:

Earnings. Commissions are paid to Customers, Members, or Affiliates who qualify pursuant to the
Compensation Plan and who are in compliance with the Contract. A Customer, Member, or Affiliate’s
success is only achieved through the regular and repeated purchase of products and the regular and
repeated product sales by its Downline Organization. As the success of any Customer, Member, or
Affiliate depends largely on the personal efforts of that Customer, Member, or Affiliate, the Company
does not guarantee any level of profit or success, nor does it guarantee a Customer, Member, or
Affiliate a specific income. A Customer, Member, or Affiliate does not receive compensation for
sponsoring or recruiting other Customers, Members, or Affiliates. The only way to earn Commissions
is through the sale of Products.

So, now it is again saying that buying products is required. The company seems to be sending mixed messages and apparently led big-hitting marketers to believe that buying products is optional. That, or the big hitters are straight-up lying, and they know it (which is what I suspect, since they've been doing videos showcasing the products).

There are also some concerning terms about cross-line and cross-company recruiting for any other company. I'm no lawyer, but these terms may potentially limit you from promoting any other online business opportunity by agreeing to the terms.

The other concerning area of the Terms & Conditions is the internet advertising terms. If I am understanding the terms correctly, if you are planning to market online you must do the following:

1. A Customer, Member, or Affiliate may not enter into a website licensing agreement until it
has completed a website training course given by the Company.

2. All licensed websites must first be reviewed and approved by the Company as Sales
Tools. Licensed websites must be Company-specific and may not advertise, promote, or link
to any other product or opportunity

3. Customers, Members, or Affiliates may not use any key words or meta tags to advertise
any licensed website on the Internet if the search words or meta tags explicitly or implicitly
present illegal or unsubstantiated health or income claims.

4. The Company may revoke the license for any previously approved website at any time
and for any reason, including changes to federal and local laws and regulations.
5. Customers, Members, or Affiliates may promote the business opportunity and Products on
social networking sites such as “Facebook” and “Twitter;” video sites such as “YouTube” and
“Google Video;” and blogging sites such as “Wordpress” and “Blogger” (collectively “Social
Media Sites”), provided the following conditions are met:

a. All text, audio and video postings do not contain Product or income claims. For
Product information, Customers, Members, or Affiliates may refer viewers to their
LiveGood replicated website, the Company website, or a Company Licensed
Website;

b. Videos posted to Social Media Sites must show the text “LiveGood Independent
Customer, Member, or Affiliate” for the entirety of the video;

c. The Company may monitor the Social Media Sites for compliance with the
Contract and Customer, Member, or Affiliate agrees to immediately remove or modify
the Social Media Sites upon the Company’s request to comply with the Contract.

L. Advertising and Selling Price of Products on the Internet. Customer, Member, or Affiliate
acknowledges and agrees that the advertising and selling of all Products on the Internet may only be
done on a Company Licensed Website and the advertising and selling price of all Products on such
website (i) if sold to an Applicant, must not be lower than the Customer, Member, or Affiliate price of
the Products plus reasonable shipping and the amount the Company charges for taxes, handling. In
connection with this Section, the Customer, Member, or Affiliate also agrees that all advertising
regarding the price of Products will be truthful and will not contain misleading statements (e.g.
"lowest price available" which infers that a Customer, Member, or Affiliate is able to sell the Products
at a price lower than other Customers, Members, or Affiliates, etc.). Customer, Member, or Affiliate
acknowledges and agrees that he or she shall not advertise or sell any Products on the Internet
which were purchased from another Customer, Member, or Affiliate. Any violation of this Section by
a Customer, Member, or Affiliate shall constitute a breach of the Contract and will be subject to
termination of Customers, Members, or Affiliateship.

I checked out one of the team members, and I found out that he used to be the Founder & CEO of Skinny Body Care in 2010, and seemed to be abandoned in 2018. The company was eventually sold to Valentus in 2019. There is speculation that this may be his attempt to reboot this MLM company.

It's raised a few red flags for me, enough that I am hesitating to join. I have been looking for a good multi-vitamin that is reasonably priced which this company offers, but I'll need to do more research. If I join, it'll be primarily for the products and not the compensation plan.

I am sure that there are going to be a few people that make a killing from this, but I also suspect that there are going to be a lot of people that never end up making a dime. At least the monthly cost is reasonable, and if people are joining primarily for the products they are at least getting a competitive price compared to the competition. The problem is that people marketing this normally do this backward, they promote the money-making opportunity and mention the products as an afterthought.

On the one hand, the way this is presented by the company concerns me, and I have serious reservations about the compensation plan. On the other hand, the products are competitively priced and from what I can tell seem to be comparable to high-quality brands that are more expensive.

Just my two cents.

[anonymous91]

.... Problem was I got in too late. People that got in two years before me are now millionaires. Because of the CBD craze. But the CBD craze is over.

The above sentence says it all and is the calling card of every Ponzi scheme. You gotta get in early enough.

Yes. But remove the hype, expensive products, and need to recruit and it no longer makes a difference.

As long as people are joining for the product and not the money-making plan that all of the marketers are pushing.

[Fred]

I suppose we should discuss what a pyramid is and is not. All businesses are shaped like a pyramid and the people at the top earn more money.

I have been in a couple pyramids that would be considered illegal. Here is how they work. I made good money in both. You get a card that has spots for names. It really doesn't matter who gets the people to join. What matters is that when the card is full of names, the guy at the top has a payout coming. Getting people to join is easy. They ask what do I get for my money? Nothing, but an opportunity. Is it a gamble? Yes. Then they ask how to join. The government decided this was illegal because nothing was being purchased. They decided that an opportunity is illegal to sell. Why is it far easier to get someone to join a pyramid than a legitimate business? Because there is nothing to sell. No story to tell. Do you want to make money or not?

Selling memberships is legal. Think Costco. At Costco, there are products available and it is assumed that is why people joined. But there is no actual obligation to buy any products. That does not make it illegal.

LiveGood charges $49.95 to join. You earn a 50% commission on referrals so if you refer 2 people, you get your money back. I have referred 18 people at $25 each, so I have earned almost $500 so far. There are 6 ways to earn. That is one. After the first month, there is a $9.95 fee to remain active and hold your right to buy products wholesale. The prices are cheaper than in the store. Where did that ever happen in an MLM? Never!

So because the matrix is forced. In other words, there are only 2 people allowed on any given level. So if anyone refers more than 2 people, they must spillover to lower levels. This gives people a downline without recruiting anyone. There is only one matrix, so it will fill, whether any particular individual person refers anyone or not. So it is possible to earn over $2000 by just sitting on your butt and never referring anyone.

One of the founders of this company has started, grown, and sold a couple MLM companies before. That is call experience. Nobody wants a moron in charge.

My sponsor has been in for four weeks and has earned over $2900. He has personally enrolled over a hundred people. All but 2 of them spilled over into lower levels.

This has never been done before. When people in other companies realize that they can earn more money and the products are 85% less, they will change companies. Millions will join. It is already in several different countries. By joining now, some of those millions will be in YOUR downline. What better investment can you think of for just ten bucks a month?

People will be earning hundreds of thousands of dollars per month on the matching bonus alone. Sometimes God sends people a life boat and they would rather drown.

[Original_Intent]

When people can "earn" hundreds of thousands of dollars without providing value, it's a con.

[Cruiserdude]

When people can "earn" hundreds of thousands of dollars without providing value, it's a con.

Genesis 3:19
By the SWEAT OF YOUR BROW you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken.

[Fred]

When people can "earn" hundreds of thousands of dollars without providing value, it's a con.

Only people that grow the business by referring others can earn that much so they did provide a great value.

[Fred]

When people can "earn" hundreds of thousands of dollars without providing value, it's a con.

Genesis 3:19
By the SWEAT OF YOUR BROW you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken.

Course, some people are smarter than others and so will organize companies and organizations. Johnny Shovel can dig ditches for a living if he things that is what God wanted. Or Mr. Car R Pillar will build an excavator as he understands God wanted him to do in order to get far more done with far less labor. Even farmers buy tractors. Only idiots think that only those activities that produce sweat are Christlike.

[Cruiserdude]

When people can "earn" hundreds of thousands of dollars without providing value, it's a con.

Genesis 3:19
By the SWEAT OF YOUR BROW you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken.

Course, some people are smarter than others and so will organize companies and organizations. Johnny Shovel can dig ditches for a living if he things that is what God wanted. Or Mr. Car R Pillar will build an excavator as he understands God wanted him to do in order to get far more done with far less labor. Even farmers buy tractors. Only idiots think that only those activities that produce sweat are Christlike.

I understand.

[Original_Intent]

This is classic pyramid scheme, and also a Ponzi scheme, your assertion that all businesses are "pyramid shape" is correct but misleading.

"Selling memberships is legal". Legal <> ethical. See anonymous' post above.

This is a typical "if you get in early, you MAY make out like a bandit, if you get in late, 99 of 100 will never make their membership fee back.

I think you are a good guy, Fred, so I will assume you are simply being deceived rather than actively deceiving.

[Fred]

This is classic pyramid scheme, and also a Ponzi scheme, your assertion that all businesses are "pyramid shape" is correct but misleading.

"Selling memberships is legal". Legal <> ethical. See anonymous' post above.

This is a typical "if you get in early, you MAY make out like a bandit, if you get in late, 99 of 100 will never make their membership fee back.

I think you are a good guy, Fred, so I will assume you are simply being deceived rather than actively deceiving.

I've been in 3 weeks. I already earned over $450. I have spent $49 on a membership. That's looking like a good investment from where I stand.

Getting in early is a plus, of course. But next year, the opportunity is the same as today. Unless you believe all 8 billion people will join and there will be no one left to keep filling the matrix. This is a rather remote possibility. But even if that happened, new people are born. Can you imagine how much money I make if 8 billion people join? I would share it with you.

It's probably because you are thinking of MLMs when they sucked. That is so yesterday. Take a look at this and report back. http://EasiestMoney.org

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Don't spit on me till you hear me out. We all know that MLM companies mark their products up 6 to 10 times so that some guy upline can get a fat commission. We all know that one has to recruit a boat load of people in order to make the big money. In the process, some people spend money they can't afford and then call you a shyster.

Well, just suppose that none of that were true. Would it make a difference?

I have joined a few and made a little money, but spent a lot also. Between 3 and 5 years ago I spent over $30,000 each year on Craigslist ads. I got half of it back. Problem was I got in too late. People that got in two years before me are now millionaires. Because of the CBD craze. But the CBD craze is over.

Okay, so why would I be stupid enough to join another one, you might ask?

A guy sends me an email. I've known him for several years. He tells me about a new wholesale buyers club. Think Costco. You spend $49.95 one time to join and then just $9.95 a month for as long as you want to be a member of the wholesale club. The products are health oriented like typical MLMs. But instead of $130 for 30 ml of 750 strength CBD oil, it is just $18. But just like Costco, there is no obligation to buy anything, ever. It is a network marketing company operated by a couple of well experienced MLMers that between them paid a billion dollars in commissions from their respective companies. But a person can actually earn over $2000 a month without ever sponsoring, referring, or enrolling a single person, ever!

The guy earned $3000 his first 4 weeks. He is an Internet marketer. I earned just under $500 my first 3 weeks.

Whoa, what? Yup.

I don't want this to be viewed as an ad. Utah is the MLM capital of the world. I'm just making anyone that is interested, aware that things have changed. The MLM industry will never be the same. This changes everything.

If anyone is interested, just go to http://EasiestMoney.org and take a peek.

OK Fred I'm in - I'm taking you up on the challenge!

If I lose, I'll lose is as much as I would spend on Doordash.

If I do nothing but sign up, I COULD win, and make over 2k passive income a month.

If I actually tell someone else and convince them to take the same chance, I could make more, and we could both win.

Seems like a good gamble.

@Valo maybe you would be interested in trying this out while you're working on other ventures?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

OH and I might also like their products - which are incredibly reasonably priced.

[Severus]

This is classic pyramid scheme, and also a Ponzi scheme, your assertion that all businesses are "pyramid shape" is correct but misleading.

"Selling memberships is legal". Legal <> ethical. See anonymous' post above.

This is a typical "if you get in early, you MAY make out like a bandit, if you get in late, 99 of 100 will never make their membership fee back.

I think you are a good guy, Fred, so I will assume you are simply being deceived rather than actively deceiving.

I've been in 3 weeks. I already earned over $450. I have spent $49 on a membership. That's looking like a good investment from where I stand.

Getting in early is a plus, of course. But next year, the opportunity is the same as today. Unless you believe all 8 billion people will join and there will be no one left to keep filling the matrix. This is a rather remote possibility. But even if that happened, new people are born. Can you imagine how much money I make if 8 billion people join? I would share it with you.

It's probably because you are thinking of MLMs when they sucked. That is so yesterday. Take a look at this and report back. http://EasiestMoney.org

Best of luck to you Fred. Hope you make it big!

[AZRob]

Well you got one thing right: Utah is the MLM capital of the US. As always, the key to success is to be a founder who can handle the blowback from angry members and customers as well as the inevitable inquiries from the Utah attorney general (and both the founder and the AG are used to the process by now). Then when the pyramid is complete, filled, and collapsed and the original product is out of vogue, the intrepid founder tries again with the latest cool product. It wouldn't be a proper pyramid if the participants below the founders didn't lose chunks of their downline for petty infractions that can't be known in advance.

Cue Fred's lines from the usual MLM script: "You're not making any money because you're one of the 98% who didn't try hard enough. It's like a business, dontcha know?!" I hear that in Utah, part of sustaining your local leader is investing in his current flavor of MLM. I'm joking. Maybe.

Reality is MLMs are so far from the parable of the talents that you'll never hear anything like "Well done, my good and faithful servant" at any level of the pyramid.

[Fred]

Well you got one thing right: Utah is the MLM capital of the US. As always, the key to success is to be a founder who can handle the blowback from angry members and customers as well as the inevitable inquiries from the Utah attorney general (and both the founder and the AG are used to the process by now). Then when the pyramid is complete, filled, and collapsed and the original product is out of vogue, the intrepid founder tries again with the latest cool product. It wouldn't be a proper pyramid if the participants below the founders didn't lose chunks of their downline for petty infractions that can't be known in advance.

Cue Fred's lines from the usual MLM script: "You're not making any money because you're one of the 98% who didn't try hard enough. It's like a business, dontcha know?!" I hear that in Utah, part of sustaining your local leader is investing in his current flavor of MLM. I'm joking. Maybe.

Reality is MLMs are so far from the parable of the talents that you'll never hear anything like "Well done, my good and faithful servant" at any level of the pyramid.

Well, since pyramids are illegal in all 50 states, none of what you said applies.

[AZRob]

Well, since pyramids are illegal in all 50 states, none of what you said applies.

Haha, so you're one of those founders who helped the AGs define "pyramid" to have a special meaning so that you can skirt to the other side of the line and be in the clear with the law? Good on you!!!

[farmerchick]

ya..I'll pass Fred.....i think sweat equity is much better than gambling in the mlm casino...but thats just me.....working for a living isn't as much fun, but then I don't have anyone with pitchforks chasing me...I'm the one with the pitchfork.....of course my pitchfork is automated......lol.....plus if I want to gamble I can drive about ten minutes and give the tribes my money for a chance to win big.....which I think would be more fun than doing a mlm scheme....at least at the casino they have really good food after I've lost all my money...... supposedly people really do win something there.....lol...good luck for sure though....i hope it's a winner for you..