Power trip 🤯

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Pseudonym
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Re: Power trip 🤯

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Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:59 pm
Pseudonym wrote: January 26th, 2023, 9:58 pm I will give one example as a reason that the Church does not give the type of transparency that is often requested by doubters.
Really that's all you had to say, the rest is just excuses. But I thank you for your honesty in admitting that indeed the ldscorp is not transparent, and in fact willfully conceals its finances from the very membership that supplies those tithes to it, acting in good faith. Unfortunately for those despotic and greedy men who are engaged in this evil practice, the ldscorp's financial malfeasance is not transparent in the slightest to God, who I would speculate based on multiple scriptures specifically condemning such actions, is not happy and will call them to account.
Then there would be absolutely no need for you to do so. Unless as Isaiah said to King Ahaz that claimed that G-d was not transparent - "You do not believe because you are not loyal".

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pseudonym wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:07 pm ......

The whole concept of the power trip had nothing to do with tithing. Maybe you need to read the OP again.
I would say that the OP says everything about you and nothing about any of the presidents. None of the GA that I have known have sought for positions or seen a calling as a power trip.
I'm glad that your experience has been a pleasant one.

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Pseudonym wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:40 pm
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:59 pm
Pseudonym wrote: January 26th, 2023, 9:58 pm I will give one example as a reason that the Church does not give the type of transparency that is often requested by doubters.
Really that's all you had to say, the rest is just excuses. But I thank you for your honesty in admitting that indeed the ldscorp is not transparent, and in fact willfully conceals its finances from the very membership that supplies those tithes to it, acting in good faith. Unfortunately for those despotic and greedy men who are engaged in this evil practice, the ldscorp's financial malfeasance is not transparent in the slightest to God, who I would speculate based on multiple scriptures specifically condemning such actions, is not happy and will call them to account.
Then there would be absolutely no need for you to do so. Unless as Isaiah said to King Ahaz that claimed that G-d was not transparent - "You do not believe because you are not loyal".
Seriously? "Shut up, you don't have the right to judge; only God can do that!" Yet we're also told one of the primary purposes of mortality is to discern and choose between evil and good. So which is it?

And if we're going with the twisted notion that to question the (very) suspect actions of men is to display a lack of faith, well I'm fine with that because I have NO faith in men, and I think it's a very foolish notion to have faith in anyone but God. In fact I think it might even be classified as a sin...

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Pseudonym wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:07 pm ......

The whole concept of the power trip had nothing to do with tithing. Maybe you need to read the OP again.
I would say that the OP says everything about you and nothing about any of the presidents. None of the GA that I have known have sought for positions or seen a calling as a power trip.
The OP asked a question. As far as I can tell, all his post says about him is that he's willing to ask questions.

How do you know that none of the GA you've known have sought for position/power? Mental prestidigitation? If so, I've got a ton of new questions because I didn't realize you were a psychic before now; if you have strong enough mind-reading powers maybe you can put to bed a number of pressing questions I have regarding the Loch Ness Monster, monuments on Mars, and who killed Jeffrey Epstein.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:50 pm
Pseudonym wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:07 pm ......

The whole concept of the power trip had nothing to do with tithing. Maybe you need to read the OP again.
I would say that the OP says everything about you and nothing about any of the presidents. None of the GA that I have known have sought for positions or seen a calling as a power trip.
I'm glad that your experience has been a pleasant one.
Drink more Kool Ade.❗️

Pseudonym
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Pseudonym »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:50 pm
Pseudonym wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:07 pm ......

The whole concept of the power trip had nothing to do with tithing. Maybe you need to read the OP again.
I would say that the OP says everything about you and nothing about any of the presidents. None of the GA that I have known have sought for positions or seen a calling as a power trip.
I'm glad that your experience has been a pleasant one.
I have had many experiences that I would not characterize as present. The D&C tells us that it is the disposition of “ALMOST ALL” men that when they are in a position of authority that they will immediately exercise unrighteous dominion. I was raised in a conservative family with a father very active in the Republican party. I left the republican party during the Nixon years because the vast majority of the Republican party officials I found – not just on a power trip but quite corrupt.

I attempted to become a Democrat but discovered that the officials of that party to be expositional more corrupt. I volunteered to work for free as a lobbyist for education (mostly teachers) and found it impossible to work outside of individuals on power trips.

When I was in the army I was offered to attend West Point and was there for a week and decided not to become an officer because of so many unpleasant experiences with officers on power trips. After college I worked for many years in the corporate world and had many experiences with individuals on power trips.

The one area I have discovered individuals not on power trips is in a number of religious institutions. Granted I have not know a lot outside of the church with some exceptions. The Buddhist Zen Master in Salt Lake is a remarkable person and through him I met the Della Lama that I was impressed is also a very powerful person that is not on a power trip. I have met a few Islamic Sunni Imams that impressed me that there are many within Islam that are not on power trips. I can give some others.

I do know a few general authorities and have not encountered a single one on a power trip which I find quite remarkable because of the accusations and threats they encounter. I have encountered individual in the church that are on a power trip – but honestly – they do not seem to last for very long. For the record – I myself have difficulty with compassion – Though I have little interests in money or things (the common trappings of power trippers) – I do not list myself as Christ like. It is most difficult for me to love people I do not like very much.

Pseudonym
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Pseudonym »

Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 27th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Pseudonym wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:40 pm
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:59 pm
Pseudonym wrote: January 26th, 2023, 9:58 pm I will give one example as a reason that the Church does not give the type of transparency that is often requested by doubters.
Really that's all you had to say, the rest is just excuses. But I thank you for your honesty in admitting that indeed the ldscorp is not transparent, and in fact willfully conceals its finances from the very membership that supplies those tithes to it, acting in good faith. Unfortunately for those despotic and greedy men who are engaged in this evil practice, the ldscorp's financial malfeasance is not transparent in the slightest to God, who I would speculate based on multiple scriptures specifically condemning such actions, is not happy and will call them to account.
Then there would be absolutely no need for you to do so. Unless as Isaiah said to King Ahaz that claimed that G-d was not transparent - "You do not believe because you are not loyal".
Seriously? "Shut up, you don't have the right to judge; only God can do that!" Yet we're also told one of the primary purposes of mortality is to discern and choose between evil and good. So which is it?

And if we're going with the twisted notion that to question the (very) suspect actions of men is to display a lack of faith, well I'm fine with that because I have NO faith in men, and I think it's a very foolish notion to have faith in anyone but God. In fact I think it might even be classified as a sin...
It is a misunderstanding of scripture to say no one has the right to judge. We all judge. What the scripture suggests is that we do not condemn. I understand this to imply who belong in what glory. It is also my understanding that we all have G-d given Agency to determine to what we give our loyalty.

I referenced the prophet Isaiah dealing with King Ahaz. Now what I find interesting is that the OP assumes that there are gluttons for power that serve in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a Prophet of G-d because their word influences so many. Why did you not get upset for the creator of the OP for judging the LDS prophet?

Also I am having difficulty with your logic. You say you have no faith in men????? You are a man - Why do you have faith to post????? :?

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pseudonym wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:02 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:50 pm
Pseudonym wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:07 pm ......

The whole concept of the power trip had nothing to do with tithing. Maybe you need to read the OP again.
I would say that the OP says everything about you and nothing about any of the presidents. None of the GA that I have known have sought for positions or seen a calling as a power trip.
I'm glad that your experience has been a pleasant one.
I have had many experiences that I would not characterize as present. The D&C tells us that it is the disposition of “ALMOST ALL” men that when they are in a position of authority that they will immediately exercise unrighteous dominion. I was raised in a conservative family with a father very active in the Republican party. I left the republican party during the Nixon years because the vast majority of the Republican party officials I found – not just on a power trip but quite corrupt.

I attempted to become a Democrat but discovered that the officials of that party to be expositional more corrupt. I volunteered to work for free as a lobbyist for education (mostly teachers) and found it impossible to work outside of individuals on power trips.

When I was in the army I was offered to attend West Point and was there for a week and decided not to become an officer because of so many unpleasant experiences with officers on power trips. After college I worked for many years in the corporate world and had many experiences with individuals on power trips.

The one area I have discovered individuals not on power trips is in a number of religious institutions. Granted I have not know a lot outside of the church with some exceptions. The Buddhist Zen Master in Salt Lake is a remarkable person and through him I met the Della Lama that I was impressed is also a very powerful person that is not on a power trip. I have met a few Islamic Sunni Imams that impressed me that there are many within Islam that are not on power trips. I can give some others.

I do know a few general authorities and have not encountered a single one on a power trip which I find quite remarkable because of the accusations and threats they encounter. I have encountered individual in the church that are on a power trip – but honestly – they do not seem to last for very long. For the record – I myself have difficulty with compassion – Though I have little interests in money or things (the common trappings of power trippers) – I do not list myself as Christ like. It is most difficult for me to love people I do not like very much.
Just the fact that they have made it policy/doctrine that you can’t publicly voice a contrary position is proof they are corrupt. No humble person would implement such a policy in their leadership handbook. Sure, they present a very outward appearance of kindness and humility (I guess…), but if I only focused on the doctrine and their need for everyone to “sustain” them, I see the opposite.

Pseudonym
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Pseudonym »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:18 pm
.......

Just the fact that they have made it policy/doctrine that you can’t publicly voice a contrary position is proof they are corrupt. No humble person would implement such a policy in their leadership handbook. Sure, they present a very outward appearance of kindness and humility (I guess…), but if I only focused on the doctrine and their need for everyone to “sustain” them, I see the opposite.
Perhaps we are making progress in our discussion. Sustaining someone does not mean that you cannot disagree. I would liken this to my experience in the military. Just because one does not like orders (especially in combat conditions) does not mean that you ought to initiate a mutiny. I realized that when my commanding officer gave orders that I could discuss with them the possibility of better action – but to create objection and sow discord among fellow troops would likely result in greater loss of life. This is somewhat true in all workspaces. When the “boss” gives poor requirements – creating discord among the workers will likely result in a worse failure than just getting the job done as best as possible under the circumstances.

We do not have to sustain a person in a church calling but there is an order of covenant. The D&C outlines how to bring objections forward. I have done this myself several times – mostly concerning procedures and actions. Never have I been treated badly for my opinion (individuals in forum are more condescending of contrary opinions – hope you realize who I am referencing) that any counsel I have encountered in the church. And I would add that I know of no policy that is not submitted to a counsel before being implemented. I believe we have a great example of this form LDS doctrine of the pre-existence.

I would be most interested in your perspective of how Jesus will govern during the millennium or how the G-d you worship governs his kingdom of heaven? And just for interest – have you ever studied the Ancient Middle Eastern Suzerain – Servant Vassal treaties? Do you believe Jesus is a King? Also what does it mean when someone takes upon them “his” name?

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pseudonym wrote: January 30th, 2023, 10:58 am Perhaps we are making progress in our discussion. Sustaining someone does not mean that you cannot disagree. I would liken this to my experience in the military. Just because one does not like orders (especially in combat conditions) does not mean that you ought to initiate a mutiny. I realized that when my commanding officer gave orders that I could discuss with them the possibility of better action – but to create objection and sow discord among fellow troops would likely result in greater loss of life. This is somewhat true in all workspaces. When the “boss” gives poor requirements – creating discord among the workers will likely result in a worse failure than just getting the job done as best as possible under the circumstances.

We do not have to sustain a person in a church calling but there is an order of covenant. The D&C outlines how to bring objections forward. I have done this myself several times – mostly concerning procedures and actions. Never have I been treated badly for my opinion (individuals in forum are more condescending of contrary opinions – hope you realize who I am referencing) that any counsel I have encountered in the church. And I would add that I know of no policy that is not submitted to a counsel before being implemented. I believe we have a great example of this form LDS doctrine of the pre-existence.

I would be most interested in your perspective of how Jesus will govern during the millennium or how the G-d you worship governs his kingdom of heaven? And just for interest – have you ever studied the Ancient Middle Eastern Suzerain – Servant Vassal treaties? Do you believe Jesus is a King? Also what does it mean when someone takes upon them “his” name?
Actually, according to the church, to sustain is to obey. (It's in the manuals btw) And it also means that you can't publicly disagree with them. It's in the leadership handbook. I was called to repentance by my SP for questioning the "safe effective" claims by the brethren. What an abuse of the priesthood.

Lizzy60
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Lizzy60 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 30th, 2023, 11:33 am
Pseudonym wrote: January 30th, 2023, 10:58 am Perhaps we are making progress in our discussion. Sustaining someone does not mean that you cannot disagree. I would liken this to my experience in the military. Just because one does not like orders (especially in combat conditions) does not mean that you ought to initiate a mutiny. I realized that when my commanding officer gave orders that I could discuss with them the possibility of better action – but to create objection and sow discord among fellow troops would likely result in greater loss of life. This is somewhat true in all workspaces. When the “boss” gives poor requirements – creating discord among the workers will likely result in a worse failure than just getting the job done as best as possible under the circumstances.

We do not have to sustain a person in a church calling but there is an order of covenant. The D&C outlines how to bring objections forward. I have done this myself several times – mostly concerning procedures and actions. Never have I been treated badly for my opinion (individuals in forum are more condescending of contrary opinions – hope you realize who I am referencing) that any counsel I have encountered in the church. And I would add that I know of no policy that is not submitted to a counsel before being implemented. I believe we have a great example of this form LDS doctrine of the pre-existence.

I would be most interested in your perspective of how Jesus will govern during the millennium or how the G-d you worship governs his kingdom of heaven? And just for interest – have you ever studied the Ancient Middle Eastern Suzerain – Servant Vassal treaties? Do you believe Jesus is a King? Also what does it mean when someone takes upon them “his” name?
Actually, according to the church, to sustain is to obey. (It's in the manuals btw) And it also means that you can't publicly disagree with them. It's in the leadership handbook. I was called to repentance by my SP for questioning the "safe effective" claims by the brethren. What an abuse of the priesthood.
I had a Bishop who tried to deny signing recommends for people who turned down callings, saying that they were not sustaining him. He became so adamant that the Stake President had to intervene.

Where did this Bishop get this idea? From leadership higher up, manuals, and the Handbook.

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Pseudonym wrote: January 30th, 2023, 10:58 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:18 pm
.......

Just the fact that they have made it policy/doctrine that you can’t publicly voice a contrary position is proof they are corrupt. No humble person would implement such a policy in their leadership handbook. Sure, they present a very outward appearance of kindness and humility (I guess…), but if I only focused on the doctrine and their need for everyone to “sustain” them, I see the opposite.
Perhaps we are making progress in our discussion. Sustaining someone does not mean that you cannot disagree. I would liken this to my experience in the military. Just because one does not like orders (especially in combat conditions) does not mean that you ought to initiate a mutiny. I realized that when my commanding officer gave orders that I could discuss with them the possibility of better action – but to create objection and sow discord among fellow troops would likely result in greater loss of life. This is somewhat true in all workspaces. When the “boss” gives poor requirements – creating discord among the workers will likely result in a worse failure than just getting the job done as best as possible under the circumstances.

We do not have to sustain a person in a church calling but there is an order of covenant. The D&C outlines how to bring objections forward. I have done this myself several times – mostly concerning procedures and actions. Never have I been treated badly for my opinion (individuals in forum are more condescending of contrary opinions – hope you realize who I am referencing) that any counsel I have encountered in the church. And I would add that I know of no policy that is not submitted to a counsel before being implemented. I believe we have a great example of this form LDS doctrine of the pre-existence.

I would be most interested in your perspective of how Jesus will govern during the millennium or how the G-d you worship governs his kingdom of heaven? And just for interest – have you ever studied the Ancient Middle Eastern Suzerain – Servant Vassal treaties? Do you believe Jesus is a King? Also what does it mean when someone takes upon them “his” name?
Nemo the Mormon (youtube guy) did a video not that long ago on how he tried to voice objection during sustaining and tried to determine what the exact process was to bring forward a valid objection. The bottom line seemed to be, there isn't any valid way to object, and congrats on not sustaining, now here's your punishment/excommunication.

Although he's now pretty anti, I couldn't fault any of his methods of trying to figure out what the proper method of objecting even was. So yes he's biased, and no he's no longer a believer (as far as I can tell) but from what I saw outlined in the video he was following the prescribed steps (and has a paper trail). The sustaining ritual is at best theatre, at worst a way to punish anyone who dares to point anything out. I'll try to find a link to the vid.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Pseudonym »

Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 30th, 2023, 4:33 pm ........

Nemo the Mormon (youtube guy) did a video not that long ago on how he tried to voice objection during sustaining and tried to determine what the exact process was to bring forward a valid objection. The bottom line seemed to be, there isn't any valid way to object, and congrats on not sustaining, now here's your punishment/excommunication.

Although he's now pretty anti, I couldn't fault any of his methods of trying to figure out what the proper method of objecting even was. So yes he's biased, and no he's no longer a believer (as far as I can tell) but from what I saw outlined in the video he was following the prescribed steps (and has a paper trail). The sustaining ritual is at best theatre, at worst a way to punish anyone who dares to point anything out. I'll try to find a link to the vid.
It has been a few years since a very good friend of mine (police officer) objected to a call of a high counselor at a stake conference. The meeting was suspended as the stake president and my friend briefly left the meeting. On the return of the stake president, the new high counselor was not called and in the succeeding weeks the counselor was disfellowshipped and my friend was called to a bishopric (which could be viewed as punishment). My friend never revealed to me what his objection was though we were quite close and I respected that such things are not necessary for the general public.

I have also been involved (as a witness) in counsels concerning a couple of bishops and even a stake president. I am personally impressed in the love and concern shown to all parties. I am also aware that it is not uncommon for personal resentment to cloud the judgements of individuals. As a scientist and engineer I am often confused with the feelings and emotions, especially in others because I understand and relate better to logic and reason.

What does seem logical and reasonable is that whenever someone is driven by anger, resentment or revenge that they are seldom acting with logic or reason and want to make their anger, resentment and revenge open to everyone, especially those that will join them in anger, resentment and revenge. I have become convinced that anyone acting in anger, resentment and revenge is wrong in their assessment. I have learned this from my own experience with myself. In dealing with my own children I discovered that in all cases where there was disagreements (fighting) that if both were angry; both were wrong – without exception.

For me – it can be difficult to avoid anger, resentment and revenge, especially when someone I know personally is being treated badly. I have always failed in logic and reason when angry, regardless of how ever so slight. I do understand that it is not uncommon to be tempted by anger – even among those in high and influential positions. I believe that as someone tries to draw close to G-d and his love, that anger is the best antidote to prevent such – and so the more one draws close to G-d the greater will be the temptation to become angry – especially concerning the failure of others. I assume that if someone does not realize this, that they are likely having difficulties with a great many things in this mortal realm where we are so much under the influence of the things of darkness.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pseudonym wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:22 am
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 30th, 2023, 4:33 pm ........

Nemo the Mormon (youtube guy) did a video not that long ago on how he tried to voice objection during sustaining and tried to determine what the exact process was to bring forward a valid objection. The bottom line seemed to be, there isn't any valid way to object, and congrats on not sustaining, now here's your punishment/excommunication.

Although he's now pretty anti, I couldn't fault any of his methods of trying to figure out what the proper method of objecting even was. So yes he's biased, and no he's no longer a believer (as far as I can tell) but from what I saw outlined in the video he was following the prescribed steps (and has a paper trail). The sustaining ritual is at best theatre, at worst a way to punish anyone who dares to point anything out. I'll try to find a link to the vid.
It has been a few years since a very good friend of mine (police officer) objected to a call of a high counselor at a stake conference. The meeting was suspended as the stake president and my friend briefly left the meeting. On the return of the stake president, the new high counselor was not called and in the succeeding weeks the counselor was disfellowshipped and my friend was called to a bishopric (which could be viewed as punishment). My friend never revealed to me what his objection was though we were quite close and I respected that such things are not necessary for the general public.

I have also been involved (as a witness) in counsels concerning a couple of bishops and even a stake president. I am personally impressed in the love and concern shown to all parties. I am also aware that it is not uncommon for personal resentment to cloud the judgements of individuals. As a scientist and engineer I am often confused with the feelings and emotions, especially in others because I understand and relate better to logic and reason.

What does seem logical and reasonable is that whenever someone is driven by anger, resentment or revenge that they are seldom acting with logic or reason and want to make their anger, resentment and revenge open to everyone, especially those that will join them in anger, resentment and revenge. I have become convinced that anyone acting in anger, resentment and revenge is wrong in their assessment. I have learned this from my own experience with myself. In dealing with my own children I discovered that in all cases where there was disagreements (fighting) that if both were angry; both were wrong – without exception.

For me – it can be difficult to avoid anger, resentment and revenge, especially when someone I know personally is being treated badly. I have always failed in logic and reason when angry, regardless of how ever so slight. I do understand that it is not uncommon to be tempted by anger – even among those in high and influential positions. I believe that as someone tries to draw close to G-d and his love, that anger is the best antidote to prevent such – and so the more one draws close to G-d the greater will be the temptation to become angry – especially concerning the failure of others. I assume that if someone does not realize this, that they are likely having difficulties with a great many things in this mortal realm where we are so much under the influence of the things of darkness.
As an interesting side note, speaking up against corrupt doctrine or evil actions of church leaders is seldom viewed as an act of love for our brothers and sister, to stop the abuses. They just think we're tearing down someone's faith.

Logic and reasoning are indeed very important. I've found that none of my church leaders even want to discuss anything contrary to what the church espouses as doctrine.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Pseudonym »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:25 am
As an interesting side note, speaking up against corrupt doctrine or evil actions of church leaders is seldom viewed as an act of love for our brothers and sister, to stop the abuses. They just think we're tearing down someone's faith.

Logic and reasoning are indeed very important. I've found that none of my church leaders even want to discuss anything contrary to what the church espouses as doctrine.
There are many examples in the history of LDS church of leaders getting involved in evil actions and corrupt doctrine. Perhaps the worst example occurred when two counselors in the first presidency and half the apostles were disciplined and left the church. It is interesting to me none of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon traveled west with the Saints – they were either disciplined or died.

For interest there was a group of members (most in high positions and profiles in the church) that were disciplined concerning doctrine (interpretations of doctrine) that were dissatisfied with their discipline that started the Tribune news paper in Salt Lake City.

For the most part disciplinary actions are maintained in confidence which has been quite difficult for PR. The last general authority that I recall involved in discipline was Paul H. Dunn – though I do not know the exact details – it appears that the disciplinary actions were because of exaggerations (sometimes unverifiable or untrue) references he made during official speaking - to his personal life.

I am also aware of a case of a stake president that was disciplined for asking questions during temple interviews that were (best phrased as) out of scope. I have been involved with high profile disciplinary action in the church and was counseled by a “general authority” that I would be subject to discipline for leaking details – knowing the details, it would have been much to the benefit of the Church if the details were publicly available because what was leaked to the press was very inaccurate.

If there is evidence of a high profile someone (stake president or higher) within the Church convicted of a felony that was not disciplined – I would be most interested.

One last point – I have been criticized by members for my stance on evolution but not so much anymore. I have been asked how I could consider myself an active member and believe in evolution. My answer has always been that I support evolution because I cannot find a more logical or reasonable explanation for the creation of the universe and life here on earth.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by TheDuke »

Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 27th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Seriously? "Shut up, you don't have the right to judge;
Seriously? that is your response in a thread where the OP is titled "Power Trip" about LDS leaders? A little far down to be rude about someone being judgemental wouldn't you think?

Not to mention that telling someone to "Shut up" is inappropriate in its own right. Sounds like Joy Behar or AOC or someone aimed at censoring inputs you don't like!

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheDuke wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:56 pm
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 27th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Seriously? "Shut up, you don't have the right to judge;
Seriously? that is your response in a thread where the OP is titled "Power Trip" about LDS leaders? A little far down to be rude about someone being judgemental wouldn't you think?

Not to mention that telling someone to "Shut up" is inappropriate in its own right. Sounds like Joy Behar or AOC or someone aimed at censoring inputs you don't like!
“Stupid suggestion...” is that better?

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by TheDuke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:06 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:56 pm
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 27th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Seriously? "Shut up, you don't have the right to judge;
Seriously? that is your response in a thread where the OP is titled "Power Trip" about LDS leaders? A little far down to be rude about someone being judgemental wouldn't you think?

Not to mention that telling someone to "Shut up" is inappropriate in its own right. Sounds like Joy Behar or AOC or someone aimed at censoring inputs you don't like!
“Stupid suggestion...” is that better?
don't ask me, ask the author, I was just speaking up for them in support. Works for me, at least that suggests the idea is questionable vs telling a person they have no business chatting on the forum!

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

TheDuke wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:56 pm
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 27th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Seriously? "Shut up, you don't have the right to judge;
Seriously? that is your response in a thread where the OP is titled "Power Trip" about LDS leaders? A little far down to be rude about someone being judgemental wouldn't you think?

Not to mention that telling someone to "Shut up" is inappropriate in its own right. Sounds like Joy Behar or AOC or someone aimed at censoring inputs you don't like!
Yeah I agree, that was my whole point. "Shut up, you don't have the right to judge" is an invalid argument. I'm baffled that this wasn't clear to anyone?

Atrasado
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Atrasado »

Pseudonym wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:31 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:25 am
As an interesting side note, speaking up against corrupt doctrine or evil actions of church leaders is seldom viewed as an act of love for our brothers and sister, to stop the abuses. They just think we're tearing down someone's faith.

Logic and reasoning are indeed very important. I've found that none of my church leaders even want to discuss anything contrary to what the church espouses as doctrine.
There are many examples in the history of LDS church of leaders getting involved in evil actions and corrupt doctrine. Perhaps the worst example occurred when two counselors in the first presidency and half the apostles were disciplined and left the church. It is interesting to me none of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon traveled west with the Saints – they were either disciplined or died.

For interest there was a group of members (most in high positions and profiles in the church) that were disciplined concerning doctrine (interpretations of doctrine) that were dissatisfied with their discipline that started the Tribune news paper in Salt Lake City.

For the most part disciplinary actions are maintained in confidence which has been quite difficult for PR. The last general authority that I recall involved in discipline was Paul H. Dunn – though I do not know the exact details – it appears that the disciplinary actions were because of exaggerations (sometimes unverifiable or untrue) references he made during official speaking - to his personal life.

I am also aware of a case of a stake president that was disciplined for asking questions during temple interviews that were (best phrased as) out of scope. I have been involved with high profile disciplinary action in the church and was counseled by a “general authority” that I would be subject to discipline for leaking details – knowing the details, it would have been much to the benefit of the Church if the details were publicly available because what was leaked to the press was very inaccurate.

If there is evidence of a high profile someone (stake president or higher) within the Church convicted of a felony that was not disciplined – I would be most interested.

One last point – I have been criticized by members for my stance on evolution but not so much anymore. I have been asked how I could consider myself an active member and believe in evolution. My answer has always been that I support evolution because I cannot find a more logical or reasonable explanation for the creation of the universe and life here on earth.
Pseudonym, you can't tell that there is something wrong in the Church and with it's general leaders? Advocating for taking the Covid-19 vaccines is reason enough for the Lord to take them. It's only because of His great mercy that He hasn't already. Unfortunately, that isn't the only thing which is wrong. The leadership of the Church has many, many things to answer for.

That doesn't mean that I hate them or wish them ill. I pray for them and consider myself a sinner in need of just as much repentance and mercy.

I know in years past that there have been inspired men called who have really layed it all on the line to serve God. When did that change? I don't know for certain, God hadn't revealed that to me yet. But it has changed.

However, the Lord God of Israel knew that tares would grow among the wheat (D&C 86) and gave us revelation about this in Daniel 8-10, 2nd Thessalonians 2, D&C 64, D&C 101, and D&C 112. So, hold steady. Even though the Church is infested with tares and things are grim the Lion of Judah will prevail, the Church will be cleansed and set in order, and the innocent and afflicted will be gently healed.

It doesn't matter who controls the Church corporation right now, this is not their Church. It's Christ's and He will come to recover His own.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Pseudonym »

Atrasado wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:48 pm .......

Pseudonym, you can't tell that there is something wrong in the Church and with it's general leaders? Advocating for taking the Covid-19 vaccines is reason enough for the Lord to take them. It's only because of His great mercy that He hasn't already. Unfortunately, that isn't the only thing which is wrong. The leadership of the Church has many, many things to answer for.

That doesn't mean that I hate them or wish them ill. I pray for them and consider myself a sinner in need of just as much repentance and mercy.

I know in years past that there have been inspired men called who have really layed it all on the line to serve God. When did that change? I don't know for certain, God hadn't revealed that to me yet. But it has changed.

However, the Lord God of Israel knew that tares would grow among the wheat (D&C 86) and gave us revelation about this in Daniel 8-10, 2nd Thessalonians 2, D&C 64, D&C 101, and D&C 112. So, hold steady. Even though the Church is infested with tares and things are grim the Lion of Judah will prevail, the Church will be cleansed and set in order, and the innocent and afflicted will be gently healed.

It doesn't matter who controls the Church corporation right now, this is not their Church. It's Christ's and He will come to recover His own.
I am not an advocate of the COVID vaccines unless someone falls within the limited number (%) of the population that is at risk of COVID or has not been infected by a particular COVID virus. My personal research into the technology of the new and unique mRNA vaccine for COVID (and perhaps other viral infections) is in my mind a miracle of modern science. If someone has respiratory problems, is overweight (obese – which means their body fat is great enough to diminish their health) or has diminishing health because of age (or other condition) --- it is my personal opinion that they are suffering delusions of limited intelligence to reject the vaccine. I also believe that it is not wise to recommend to anyone at risk to opt out of taking the COVID vaccines – with perhaps very rare exception.

It is also my opinion that at this point the risk of COVID in (our USA) society has mostly ran its course – with the exception of illegal immigrations from places in this world where there is still a significant problem. A list of such places can be obtained at any medical facility in the USA. I do not understand why anyone entering the USA illegally is not screened as citizens are when they receive medical care.

I do not understand how it is that a free society has allowed their governments to mandate masks and vaccines for the segments of our population that are obviously not at risk. I can support general advocation as was done by President Nelson, but I do not support mandates as proposed by Fauci, the CDC and other government officials. I believe reasonable people can listen study and determine their actions for themselves – and not so much to dictate what others should think, say or do. I am well familiar with the statements of our Church President given during the height of the “COVID pandemic” and the accompanying circumstances. I am not concerned with our brethren nor their remarks. I am concerned with the bitterness and contentions in our society with those of differing opinions on this subject that want their opinions mandated – especially within our political arena.

It is my opinion that bitterness is a greater pandemic than the COVID pandemic and that if fires of contention are continued to be fueled that our society will suffer more and greater losses than what was experienced during the worse outbreaks of COVID.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pseudonym wrote: February 8th, 2023, 10:37 am I am not an advocate of the COVID vaccines.
Sorry, I think you forgot to add a period here... somehow all of this text came after it.

Lizzy60
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Lizzy60 »

I believe it’s actually MORE dangerous for someone in the at-risk categories to get the covid jab. Why suppress the natural immune system, or what’s left of it in someone already prone to have a negative outcome to a side effect. The side effects are far more serious than covid ever was, even for elderly, obese, immune-compromised people.

Atrasado
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Atrasado »

Pseudonym wrote: February 8th, 2023, 10:37 am
Atrasado wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:48 pm .......

Pseudonym, you can't tell that there is something wrong in the Church and with it's general leaders? Advocating for taking the Covid-19 vaccines is reason enough for the Lord to take them. It's only because of His great mercy that He hasn't already. Unfortunately, that isn't the only thing which is wrong. The leadership of the Church has many, many things to answer for.

That doesn't mean that I hate them or wish them ill. I pray for them and consider myself a sinner in need of just as much repentance and mercy.

I know in years past that there have been inspired men called who have really laid it all on the line to serve God. When did that change? I don't know for certain, God hadn't revealed that to me yet. But it has changed.

However, the Lord God of Israel knew that tares would grow among the wheat (D&C 86) and gave us revelation about this in Daniel 8-10, 2nd Thessalonians 2, D&C 64, D&C 101, and D&C 112. So, hold steady. Even though the Church is infested with tares and things are grim the Lion of Judah will prevail, the Church will be cleansed and set in order, and the innocent and afflicted will be gently healed.

It doesn't matter who controls the Church corporation right now, this is not their Church. It's Christ's and He will come to recover His own.
I am not an advocate of the COVID vaccines unless someone falls within the limited number (%) of the population that is at risk of COVID or has not been infected by a particular COVID virus. My personal research into the technology of the new and unique mRNA vaccine for COVID (and perhaps other viral infections) is in my mind a miracle of modern science. If someone has respiratory problems, is overweight (obese – which means their body fat is great enough to diminish their health) or has diminishing health because of age (or other condition) --- it is my personal opinion that they are suffering delusions of limited intelligence to reject the vaccine. I also believe that it is not wise to recommend to anyone at risk to opt out of taking the COVID vaccines – with perhaps very rare exception.

It is also my opinion that at this point the risk of COVID in (our USA) society has mostly ran its course – with the exception of illegal immigrations from places in this world where there is still a significant problem. A list of such places can be obtained at any medical facility in the USA. I do not understand why anyone entering the USA illegally is not screened as citizens are when they receive medical care.

I do not understand how it is that a free society has allowed their governments to mandate masks and vaccines for the segments of our population that are obviously not at risk. I can support general advocation as was done by President Nelson, but I do not support mandates as proposed by Fauci, the CDC and other government officials. I believe reasonable people can listen study and determine their actions for themselves – and not so much to dictate what others should think, say or do. I am well familiar with the statements of our Church President given during the height of the “COVID pandemic” and the accompanying circumstances. I am not concerned with our brethren nor their remarks. I am concerned with the bitterness and contentions in our society with those of differing opinions on this subject that want their opinions mandated – especially within our political arena.

It is my opinion that bitterness is a greater pandemic than the COVID pandemic and that if fires of contention are continued to be fueled that our society will suffer more and greater losses than what was experienced during the worse outbreaks of COVID.
The idea that the Cavid-19 vaccines are beneficial in any way is mistaken. No segment of the population is better off taking the Covid-19 vaccines. Those vaccines weren't even created to treat Covid-19. Technically, they were designed so that they would cause the cells of those injected to create the spike proteins, which is the toxic part of the virus. The cover story was that the mRNA would degrade in a couple of days and the treated individuals would develop immunity to any virus which presents the spike proteins. Of course, the reality is that the mRNA actually transferred to the cell nucleus and transcribed into the DNA so that individuals who were injected with these weapons are now producing billions of spike proteins each day. This is what is producing the spikes in deaths and huge increases in a wide variety of maladies. The Japanese Pfizer data that Byram Bidle uncovered first established the fact that the vaccines don't stay local and are present long after the two or three days the vaccine manufacturers claimed.

Of course, if you somehow believe the mainstream lies then the spike proteins aren't toxic (even though research from the Scripps Institute and others indicate that they are) and they disappear after a couple of days. Except that they are toxic and they don't disappear. And this doesn't even take into account the other poisons that the pharmaceutical companies are putting into these vaccines. It's no wonder they won't provide ingredient inserts.

I'm saddened that you still buy at least some of the mainstream deceits and are trying to sell them to others. Of course, it is very difficult to break out of the conditioning which we receive from society. It's in every aspect of our lives now. Education, the media, churches (including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, unfortunately), big businesses, and healthcare are all controlled by Satan and his cabal. So I understand how someone of good faith might not believe these things. I, too, was making excuses for the drunkards of Ephraim not that many months ago.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Here's an interesting tidbit. Can you think of a doctrine in the church that has stood the test of time more unwavering than the idea that the "prophet can never lead you astray"?

Temples = changed
Temple questions = changed
Tithing = changed
Polygamy/polyamory = changed
Priesthood = changed
Blacks/priesthood = changed
Sacrament = changed
Second anointing = changed
Word of wisdom = changed
Handbook = changed
LGBTQ+ = changed
I'm a mormon = changed
Council of 50 = gone
Presiding patriarch = gone
Adam/god = gone
Blood atonement = gone
Law of adoption = gone

BUT....

"We cannot lead you astray" = Completely unchanged, verbatim from the day it slipped from the mouth of Brigham.

This single philosophy has a direct correlation to the power structure in the church. When it comes to their "authority", nothing changes.

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