Power trip 🤯

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Reluctant Watchman
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Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Indulge me for a minute. Put yourself in the position of the LDS church president. Every single time a person is baptized into the church, enters the temple for the first time, renews a temple recommend, or at quarterly and semi-annually gatherings, they profess their allegiance to a man. What kind of power trip does that have upon an individual?

🤯

EDIT: I'm reinstating my original comment w/ the clarifying note. What are the mental implications of placing one person in a position where everyone who joins the church must prescribe to every pronouncement you make or else they may be perceived as denying their faith in Christ? By preaching that every pronouncement from a church leader is the word and will of the Lord, everyone who sustains you must obey what you say. That is a tremendous amount of influence.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on January 10th, 2023, 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by creator »

Is this strawman really the kind of discussion you want to have on the forum?

As admin of the forum I was previously more strict in regards to comments that are critical of Church leaders, primarily for the sake of not wanting this forum to be just like the ex-mormon/anti-mormon forums, to encourage actual positive discussion, and to avoid unnecessarily being accusers. I'd much rather spend my time on positive things than on accusing others and pointing out the negative aspects of the Church.

Obviously, I softened that moderation stance in the past few years as the Church revealed more and more that they are fully on board with Babylon and the globalist agenda (though I personally still prefer to focus more on positive things). As many Church members have expressed over the past few years, the Church crossed a line (and anyone watching could see they crossed some lines a long time ago, but now it became much more apparent.)

So, back this "Power trip" topic. Is this really what you want to spend your time thinking about and discussing? You're not even making an actual argument about a real-life event, you're creating a hypothetical event for consideration that is intended to be negative. And the Church is doing plenty of things that are deserving of criticism and opposition, but in this post you've simply built up a strawman.

Just something to think about.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

creator wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:15 am Is this strawman really the kind of discussion you want to have on the forum?

As admin of the forum I was previously more strict in regards to comments that are critical of Church leaders, primarily for the sake of not wanting this forum to be just like the ex-mormon/anti-mormon forums, to encourage actual positive discussion, and to avoid unnecessarily being accusers. I'd much rather spend my time on positive things than on accusing others and pointing out the negative aspects of the Church.

Obviously, I softened that moderation stance in the past few years as the Church revealed more and more that they are fully on board with Babylon and the globalist agenda (though I personally still prefer to focus more on positive things). As many Church members have expressed over the past few years, the Church crossed a line (and anyone watching could see they crossed some lines a long time ago, but now it became much more apparent.)

So, back this "Power trip" topic. Is this really what you want to spend your time thinking about and discussing? You're not even making an actual argument about a real-life event, you're creating a hypothetical event for consideration that is intended to be negative. And the Church is doing plenty of things that are deserving of criticism and opposition, but in this post you've simply built up a strawman.

Just something to think about.
Then delete the thread.

My intentions were to look at the mental implications of what church structure and tradition have created.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on January 10th, 2023, 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by spiritMan »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:32 am
creator wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:15 am Is this strawman really the kind of discussion you want to have on the forum?

As admin of the forum I was previously more strict in regards to comments that are critical of Church leaders, primarily for the sake of not wanting this forum to be just like the ex-mormon/anti-mormon forums, to encourage actual positive discussion, and to avoid unnecessarily being accusers. I'd much rather spend my time on positive things than on accusing others and pointing out the negative aspects of the Church.

Obviously, I softened that moderation stance in the past few years as the Church revealed more and more that they are fully on board with Babylon and the globalist agenda (though I personally still prefer to focus more on positive things). As many Church members have expressed over the past few years, the Church crossed a line (and anyone watching could see they crossed some lines a long time ago, but now it became much more apparent.)

So, back this "Power trip" topic. Is this really what you want to spend your time thinking about and discussing? You're not even making an actual argument about a real-life event, you're creating a hypothetical event for consideration that is intended to be negative. And the Church is doing plenty of things that are deserving of criticism and opposition, but in this post you've simply built up a strawman.

Just something to think about.
Then remove the thread.
I didn't see what you said, however I get it that being extremely angry, frustrated and so utterly betrayed.
You wouldn't feel that way if you didn't (at some point and still now to a large extent) love the organization that existed.

You can not get upset about something you do not care about. It is a loss, it is like a wife committing adultery. You thought she was faithful to you (or the belief system she espoused) and you come to find out she is a lying whore.

The only thing to do is to remember the basic Christian principles. Forgiveness, patience, meekness, love, etc. Not so much for her . . .but for you.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by darknesstolight »

I wanna know now! hahaha

...

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

darknesstolight wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:46 am I wanna know now! hahaha

...
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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I would also contend that this was not a Strawman argument. Given how frequently members must profess their allegiance to church authority (that evidence/support I provided) it wasn't a half-assed argument.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by creator »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:32 amMy intentions were to look at the mental implications of what church structure and tradition have created.
Ok, have at it. There's certainly a lot to say about power trips in the Church (I'm sure we've all seen or heard about it in various leaders). And then there's the abuse and trauma experienced by members subjected to said power trips, structure, and traditions; and the cultish behavior of many members.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by creator »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:49 am I would also contend that this was not a Strawman argument. Given how frequently members must profess their allegiance to church authority (that evidence/support I provided) it wasn't a half-assed argument.
I didn't say it was a "half-assed argument". It was a strawman. That also doesn't mean there aren't valid examples of power trips in the Church. But your original post was a strawman, since it wasn't making use of a real-life example.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by creator »

darknesstolight wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:46 am I wanna know now! hahaha

...
ok..
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 8:11 am Indulge me for a minute. Put yourself in the position of the LDS church president. Every single time a person is baptized into the church, enters the temple for the first time, renews a temple recommend, or at quarterly and semi-annually gatherings, they profess their allegiance to a man. What kind of power trip does that have upon an individual?

🤯

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Dang it!!

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

creator wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:55 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:49 am I would also contend that this was not a Strawman argument. Given how frequently members must profess their allegiance to church authority (that evidence/support I provided) it wasn't a half-assed argument.
I didn't say it was a "half-assed argument". It was a strawman. That also doesn't mean there aren't valid examples of power trips in the Church. But your original post was a strawman, since it wasn't making use of a real-life example.
I guess, IMO, it wasn't an argument at all. It was a simple evaluation of the church structure and hierarchy. The outcome of such a structure and belief system has gotta be pretty mind-blowing to rest upon an individual.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by creator »

I didn't mean to ruin your fun.

Maybe I misread your intentions based on the context of other discussions you've been involved in and my perception of those discussions. :twisted: Or maybe I didn't. :D

Everything can be looked at from so many different perspectives.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Speaking of "power trips", I recall some posts I read on Reddit back in 2015 before Ronald Rasband was call as an Apostle. A church employee had predicted he would be called because they were tasked with looking into his background (and others) for any potential red flags. Anyways, others were commenting on Rasband being example of someone on a power trip, saying that he often made it clear to those beneath him in rank that he was their superior and was to be obeyed. Reminds me of this comment he made about members being obedient and wearing masks, to be good Christians, and that it had nothing to do with taking away religious liberties of the members of the Church. The guy is a great example of power tripping.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Pseudonym »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 8:11 am Indulge me for a minute. Put yourself in the position of the LDS church president. Every single time a person is baptized into the church, enters the temple for the first time, renews a temple recommend, or at quarterly and semi-annually gatherings, they profess their allegiance to a man. What kind of power trip does that have upon an individual?

🤯

EDIT: I'm reinstating my original comment w/ the clarifying note. What are the mental implications of placing one person in a position where everyone who joins the church must prescribe to every pronouncement you make or else they may be perceived as denying their faith in Christ? By preaching that every pronouncement from a church leader is the word and will of the Lord, everyone who sustains you must obey what you say. That is a tremendous amount of influence.
There is a saying that nothing is as good or as bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so.

To those that think such is a power trip – it says more about them and how they think than the individual they reference. For me to speak to this from my point of view – such would be an extremely unwanted burden that would cause great humility and concern. Personally I am of the mind that every one is responsible for their place and how they interpret it – especially to be honest to themselves about who they are and what they do. Worrying about who someone else is and what they do is flawed for so many reasons it would be impossible to list even a part. It is what we think and do that determines what is important – or should be the most important to us.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pseudonym wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:34 am There is a saying that nothing is as good or as bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so.

To those that think such is a power trip – it says more about them and how they think than the individual they reference. For me to speak to this from my point of view – such would be an extremely unwanted burden that would cause great humility and concern. Personally I am of the mind that every one is responsible for their place and how they interpret it – especially to be honest to themselves about who they are and what they do. Worrying about who someone else is and what they do is flawed for so many reasons it would be impossible to list even a part. It is what we think and do that determines what is important – or should be the most important to us.
I just can't see a humble servant of God requiring such a high level of obeisance to man when the scriptures are quite clear. I can't think of a single true prophet that would dare require such an allegiance.

Oh, and believe me, things can be much, much, worse than what we actually think. I've tried for a very long time to give church leaders the benefit of the doubt. We only see what they want us to see. The lack of transparency in simple things, like finances, should at minimum be a great cause for concern.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

To take the TBM perspective, you could see this as simply a very large stewardship that the Lord has given you to bless all of God's children. But, as I always have to interject, why require them to follow every pronouncement you make, especially in order for them to enter into "saving" ordinances? The scriptures are before us all to understand who God wants us to follow and how to interpret the word of any man.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

In light of this discussion, this verse seems quite applicable, D&C 121:

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

creator wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:21 am I didn't mean to ruin your fun.

Maybe I misread your intentions based on the context of other discussions you've been involved in and my perception of those discussions. :twisted: Or maybe I didn't. :D
While the reference to "fun" was done most likely in jest, I find no enjoyment in seeing my brothers and sister go down a path that I feel is detrimental to their spiritual health and progression. When you peel back the layers behind mind control and conditioning, things get pretty freaky really quick. Those who are being conditioned are done so with heavy doses of truth mixed w/ doses of, well, you know.

And as far as my other "discussions", I'd hold to the same context as noted above. I would love to have a very transparent discussion w/ church leadership about all sorts of things. I do pray that they will stop doing and preaching some of the things that they are.

And yeah, I get it, there are times when I push the envelope here on the forum. Maybe my days are numbered. :) I'd love to simply focus on fluffy bunnies and warm fuzzies all day long.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by blitzinstripes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:39 am
Pseudonym wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:34 am There is a saying that nothing is as good or as bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so.

To those that think such is a power trip – it says more about them and how they think than the individual they reference. For me to speak to this from my point of view – such would be an extremely unwanted burden that would cause great humility and concern. Personally I am of the mind that every one is responsible for their place and how they interpret it – especially to be honest to themselves about who they are and what they do. Worrying about who someone else is and what they do is flawed for so many reasons it would be impossible to list even a part. It is what we think and do that determines what is important – or should be the most important to us.
I just can't see a humble servant of God requiring such a high level of obeisance to man when the scriptures are quite clear. I can't think of a single true prophet that would dare require such an allegiance.

Oh, and believe me, things can be much, much, worse than what we actually think. I've tried for a very long time to give church leaders the benefit of the doubt. We only see what they want us to see. The lack of transparency in simple things, like finances, should at minimum be a great cause for concern.

I imagine that what I should expect to hear from a true servant would be something to this effect:

Please do not ever put me on a pedestal. I am just an imperfect man and I am subject to sin and error as are all of us. I promise to do my best to follow the Spirit and do the will of the Lord, but I cannot promise that I will not fail you. That I may someday succumb to temptation or pride. That I could not be deceived by the devil, and subsequently lead you astray, if you are not in tune with the Spirit. For that reason, I implore you to always trust in the Holy Spirit and the revealed word of God in the scriptures. Never seek to praise, honor, or emulate me. Jesus Christ, alone must be your light and your example. He is the Rock. Not Peter, Not Joseph Smith. Not me. Only HIM.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

blitzinstripes wrote: January 10th, 2023, 4:29 pm I imagine that what I should expect to hear from a true servant would be something to this effect:

Please do not ever put me on a pedestal. I am just an imperfect man and I am subject to sin and error as are all of us. I promise to do my best to follow the Spirit and do the will of the Lord, but I cannot promise that I will not fail you. That I may someday succumb to temptation or pride. That I could not be deceived by the devil, and subsequently lead you astray, if you are not in tune with the Spirit. For that reason, I implore you to always trust in the Holy Spirit and the revealed word of God in the scriptures. Never seek to praise, honor, or emulate me. Jesus Christ, alone must be your light and your example. He is the Rock. Not Peter, Not Joseph Smith. Not me. Only HIM.
Well said, my friend. Bravo!!!

Just think what would happen to the church if this pronouncement was made from the pulpit at GC?

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by BeNotDeceived »

creator wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:54 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:32 amMy intentions were to look at the mental implications of what church structure and tradition have created.
Ok, have at it. There's certainly a lot to say about power trips in the Church (I'm sure we've all seen or heard about it in various leaders). And then there's the abuse and trauma experienced by members subjected to said power trips, structure, and traditions; and the cultish behavior of many members.
One bad apple, spoiled the bunch.

Unfortunately that was my experience.

Twice now, but the Walker Quake at least provided some solace that my pleas had been heard.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:39 am The lack of transparency in simple things, like finances, should at minimum be a great cause for concern.
Why?

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Re: Power trip 🤯

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pseudonym wrote: January 10th, 2023, 7:52 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:39 am The lack of transparency in simple things, like finances, should at minimum be a great cause for concern.
Why?
If you’ve never questioned that or see the need for it, then any response I give would simply be water off a duck’s back. It wouldn’t matter to you. This dives deep into the misappropriation of sacred funds, as well as requiring an incorrect tithe.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

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Pseudonym wrote: January 10th, 2023, 7:52 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:39 am The lack of transparency in simple things, like finances, should at minimum be a great cause for concern.
Why?
There are reasons why. I suspect you'll see those reasons one of these days.

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Re: Power trip 🤯

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Pseudonym wrote: January 10th, 2023, 7:52 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:39 am The lack of transparency in simple things, like finances, should at minimum be a great cause for concern.
Why?
Good question, though it would appear no one actually wants to answer your question. Maybe you’re supposed to blindly prescribe to the narrative of the thread? Ironic.
Last edited by cyclOps on January 11th, 2023, 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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