Power trip 🤯

[Silver Pie]

Really, Google is your reliable source of what is trusted transparency?

Please show me where the church presents its detailed audit reports.

Show me where anyone (including yourself that pretends to believe in transparency) provides exactly what you are asking for.

I'm confused. I didn't realize Reluctant Watchman was CEO of any Church, let alone a multi-billion dollar Church. If he isn't, how can he be show you the detailed audit reports of the Church he is legally the owner of?

[creator]

I'm confused. I didn't realize Reluctant Watchman was CEO of any Church, let alone a multi-billion dollar Church. If he isn't, how can he be show you the detailed audit reports of the Church he is legally the owner of?

Reluctant Watchman = Russell Nelson, #confirmed.

It all makes sense now.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Reluctant Watchman = Russell Nelson, #confirmed.

It's a marketing scheme.

Like Palpatine, or the two-party system.

[Reluctant Watchman]

6D Chess, except I'm playing from the space station located in the rings of Saturn.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I'm confused. I didn't realize Reluctant Watchman was CEO of any Church, let alone a multi-billion dollar Church. If he isn't, how can he be show you the detailed audit reports of the Church he is legally the owner of?

"Multi-trillion"... with a "T", that's as transparent as I get. Hard assets are important too.

[Silver Pie]

Reluctant Watchman = Russell Nelson, #confirmed.

It's a marketing scheme.

Like Palpatine, or the two-party system.

Have you ever noticed that Nelson resembles Palpatine after he's old and wears the black hood? I thought that was weird.
Yoda resembles Pres Kimball. That wasn't weird; that was cute.

[Silver Pie]

Reluctant Watchman = Russell Nelson, #confirmed.

It all makes sense now.

"Multi-trillion"... with a "T", that's as transparent as I get. Hard assets are important too.

[Redpilled Mormon]

Reluctant Watchman = Russell Nelson, #confirmed.

It's a marketing scheme.

Like Palpatine, or the two-party system.

Have you ever noticed that Nelson resembles Palpatine after he's old and wears the black hood? I thought that was weird.
Yoda resembles Pres Kimball. That wasn't weird; that was cute.

Palpatine does indeed look like a less-evil version of Nelson

[Pseudonym]

......

So… you’re guessing, that’s all you can actually prove.

And, btw, while I am not poor I am also not affluent. I strive to be wise in how I spent my money. And I give my tithes to the poor. Oh, and I do not consider myself a member. My records will be removed this year.

Also, you actually have no idea if there are any millionaires due to church position. There is no way for you to factually make that claim. If I received an estimated $150k stipend, then yes, there’s a very real possibility that some leaders have become millionaires.

I am not guessing – I have known several general authorities personally. Some are much better off than others because of earning power prior to their calling. For example, the private home (estate) of Hugh B Brown was much nicer than the surprising little private home (estate) of Thomas S Monson – even though the Church was much wealthier when President Monson served in a “higher” calling position.

I have also done work among the poor in my area where I would guess that as high as 85% are autistic and have developed other mental issues and higher percentages are alcohol and drug addicted. I seriously doubt that you tithe (meaning 10%) of your income directly to the poor. First off gifts of money to others is likely not deductible for what I think is your income. In addition, like so many liberals that think money solves everything - money is more likely to create problems for those suffering mental issues combined with serious addictions. More than money they need food, housing and medical assistance and not from a distance but from someone involved in helping them with day-to-day decisions.

I personally do not have the patience, but I am wise enough to realize that there are some that can be far more effective than me dealing directly with the poor – so I support them with my donations and give of my time and efforts as I can and under their direction and instruction – often behind the scenes.

From your post, it is obvious to me that it is you that is guessing from a position of ignorance and little if any experience. Most general authorities travel almost every week and the stipend you think of as an estimate hardly covers travel and living expenses. I traveled a great deal with my little consulting business and if my travel expenses were included in my income would more than double my actual income beyond $150K (which you think is so excessive) and make paying my taxes almost impossible. What you called a stipend estimate is essentially a guess and likely includes deductible expenses on their tax return. But I do not know because you have not presented the detail of what general authority receives that stipend along with their expences. Which I find odd because you say you do not trust references to money that does not give exact details of both income and expenses.

I am also a strong believer in divine “Agency” and allow you to believe and pursue whatever you wish. However, if you pursue a course of being judgmental and critical of others – I personally believe you ought to have much better evidence than the innuendo you are presenting.

I maintain strongly that the ldscorp is not financially transparent, and we even have solid evidence it is funding anti-christian causes. However feel free to change my mind and debunk me by providing the public link that shows the entire balance sheet and holdings of the church. Until you do that, you are conceding they are not transparent.

I would be interested in your "solid" evidence and what anti-christian cause.

[Silver Pie]

I would be interested in your "solid" evidence and what anti-christian cause.

I would venture to guess that RpM might be referring to someone in Uchtdorf's family donating to a liberal cause.

[Pseudonym]

I will give one example as a reason that the Church does not give the type of transparency that is often requested by doubters. For some odd reason the church has a long history of efforts to financially destroy the Church that date back to the founding by Joseph Smith. During the 1970’s when the Seattle Temple was being constructed there was efforts in the Washington State congress to remove the tax exempt status of the Church. The efforts centered around efforts to claim that the Church was not a religious organization but rather a for profit organization. It got so bad that the youth were not able to hold car washes or any fund-raising activities on church property. The wards were unable to hold building fund raising activities such fund-raising bake sales. The only allowable methods of raising funds for any activities or operations was through donations.

Currently there are no fund-raising efforts anywhere in the Church. The only methods of raising funds is through donations or through investments which are taxed. There is no passing of a plate at public services. Beyond donations there are no requests for monies. The Church gives public biannual declarations of how funds are used and are audited by licensed and bonded independent (non-LDS) auditors that I contend are more reliable than any other method including those that may pretend transparency.

I have put forward that the most reliable method of detecting fraud is exorbitant salaries, bonuses and perks which can be turned into dollars – especially untaxed dollars. That LDS general authorities do not receive war chest building type of funds – only sufficient for their needs and expenses so that they are able to concentrate on their church services. In the past many general authorities wrote books to help support them in their positions but this is not longer taking place. Book are written but all profits are donated.

The accusation of this thread is that within the general authorities there are those that seek to gain personal power through abilities to redirect funds. This accusation is made with no proof but rather a complaint that there is not transparency. As a scientist I have learned that when it comes to religious things – those for or against something religious will whatever excuse can be imagined. I do not know why empirical evidence to support a premise is so discarded. The notion that something must be true or false on the single premise that it cannot be proven otherwise is both unscientific and what is popularly known as a strawman argument.

I purport that corruption will only exist when it can feed off (benefit) from the corruption. I do agree that non-transparency can be a cover for corruption but without individuals in position of control not benefiting from the corruption and following legal requirements and going above and beyond should be a signal that unsupported accusations and inuendo is insufficient and does not prove the “POWER TRIP” accusation of this thread.

[Pseudonym]

I would be interested in your "solid" evidence and what anti-christian cause.

I would venture to guess that RpM might be referring to someone in Uchtdorf's family donating to a liberal cause.

Thank you for your response. I realize that Uchtdorf does attend U of U sporting events and we all know how liberal the U of U is. We also know that everyone is responsible for what any relative does - especially if they are LDS. You are most likely correct.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I will give one example as a reason that the Church does not give the type of transparency that is often requested by doubters. For some odd reason the church has a long history of efforts to financially destroy the Church that date back to the founding by Joseph Smith. During the 1970’s when the Seattle Temple was being constructed there was efforts in the Washington State congress to remove the tax exempt status of the Church. The efforts centered around efforts to claim that the Church was not a religious organization but rather a for profit organization. It got so bad that the youth were not able to hold car washes or any fund-raising activities on church property. The wards were unable to hold building fund raising activities such fund-raising bake sales. The only allowable methods of raising funds for any activities or operations was through donations.

Currently there are no fund-raising efforts anywhere in the Church. The only methods of raising funds is through donations or through investments which are taxed. There is no passing of a plate at public services. Beyond donations there are no requests for monies. The Church gives public biannual declarations of how funds are used and are audited by licensed and bonded independent (non-LDS) auditors that I contend are more reliable than any other method including those that may pretend transparency.

I have put forward that the most reliable method of detecting fraud is exorbitant salaries, bonuses and perks which can be turned into dollars – especially untaxed dollars. That LDS general authorities do not receive war chest building type of funds – only sufficient for their needs and expenses so that they are able to concentrate on their church services. In the past many general authorities wrote books to help support them in their positions but this is not longer taking place. Book are written but all profits are donated.

The accusation of this thread is that within the general authorities there are those that seek to gain personal power through abilities to redirect funds. This accusation is made with no proof but rather a complaint that there is not transparency. As a scientist I have learned that when it comes to religious things – those for or against something religious will whatever excuse can be imagined. I do not know why empirical evidence to support a premise is so discarded. The notion that something must be true or false on the single premise that it cannot be proven otherwise is both unscientific and what is popularly known as a strawman argument.

I purport that corruption will only exist when it can feed off (benefit) from the corruption. I do agree that non-transparency can be a cover for corruption but without individuals in position of control not benefiting from the corruption and following legal requirements and going above and beyond should be a signal that unsupported accusations and inuendo is insufficient and does not prove the “POWER TRIP” accusation of this thread.

The whole concept of the power trip had nothing to do with tithing. Maybe you need to read the OP again.

[Redpilled Mormon]

I would be interested in your "solid" evidence and what anti-christian cause.

I would venture to guess that RpM might be referring to someone in Uchtdorf's family donating to a liberal cause.

Well, any individual member can get duped into supporting a bad cause, I don't really take issue with that. I was speaking more of the lds instution purposely funding of UN agendas, BLM donations, promotion and financial benefitting from the jab which is taking lives (while calling it a 'miracle' and pressuring innocent members to risk their health to enrich the coffers of the ldscorp), and other such intrigues with the current crop of NWO gadianton societies.

But those are all just assertions, the onus isn't on me to provide evidence of the church's malfeasance; it's on Pseudonym to provide solid evidence of the church's transparency, if he still maintains the church has any transparency to speak of. If he wants to chase down the evidence of how the ldscorp has actively supported anti-christian causes, a quick forum search will yield topic after topic, citing link after link. But I won't redirect from challenging his assertion; Pseudonym will need to defend it by providing a public link to a full accounting of all the lds church's finances, to show actual transparency.

[Redpilled Mormon]

I will give one example as a reason that the Church does not give the type of transparency that is often requested by doubters.

Really that's all you had to say, the rest is just excuses. But I thank you for your honesty in admitting that indeed the ldscorp is not transparent, and in fact willfully conceals its finances from the very membership that supplies those tithes to it, acting in good faith. Unfortunately for those despotic and greedy men who are engaged in this evil practice, the ldscorp's financial malfeasance is not transparent in the slightest to God, who I would speculate based on multiple scriptures specifically condemning such actions, is not happy and will call them to account.

[Redpilled Mormon]

BTW, whenever I hear members speculating about how frugal and impoverished our wonderful church leaders at the top are, it always makes me think of the line from Disney's Robin Hood.

"That's the poor box!"

"It sure is; and I'll just take it for poor Prince John. Every little bit helps."

[Gadianton Slayer]

Reluctant Watchman = Russell Nelson, #confirmed.

It's a marketing scheme.

Like Palpatine, or the two-party system.

Have you ever noticed that Nelson resembles Palpatine after he's old and wears the black hood? I thought that was weird.
Yoda resembles Pres Kimball. That wasn't weird; that was cute.

I made a meme about that. Nelpatine.

[Mindfields]

I have put forward that the most reliable method of detecting fraud is exorbitant salaries, bonuses and perks which can be turned into dollars – especially untaxed dollars. That LDS general authorities do not receive war chest building type of funds – only sufficient for their needs and expenses so that they are able to concentrate on their church services. In the past many general authorities wrote books to help support them in their positions but this is not longer taking place. Book are written but all profits are donated.

Ironically we wouldn't even know they were being paid if some "doubter" hadn't discovered it. They are experts in lying by omission. And not to shabby committing lies of commission either.

They get away with this kind of nonsense because members defend their conduct. They're about as transparent as a mafia crime boss.

[Silver Pie]

Well, any individual member can get duped into supporting a bad cause, I don't really take issue with that. I was speaking more of the lds instution purposely funding of UN agendas, BLM donations, promotion and financial benefitting from the jab which is taking lives (while calling it a 'miracle' and pressuring innocent members to risk their health to enrich the coffers of the ldscorp), and other such intrigues with the current crop of NWO gadianton societies.

Ah, gotcha. Makes sense.

[Silver Pie]

it's on Pseudonym to provide solid evidence of the church's transparency, if he still maintains the church has any transparency to speak of.

Well, we all know-if we are honest-that they're about as transparent as a brick wall.

[Silver Pie]

I made a meme about that. Nelpatine.

I'm trying to remember if I've seen this. My mind wants to say I have, but I'm not remembering if that's true. (if any of that makes any sense). If I saw it, I would remember if I've seen it before.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I made a meme about that. Nelpatine.

I'm trying to remember if I've seen this. My mind wants to say I have, but I'm not remembering if that's true. (if any of that makes any sense). If I saw it, I would remember if I've seen it before.

[Silver Pie]

Holy Cow! No, I've never seen that one. The resemblance is uncanny.

[BeNotDeceived]

Holy Cow! No, I've never seen that one. The resemblance is uncanny.

Mini me would be plowed.

[Pseudonym]

......

The whole concept of the power trip had nothing to do with tithing. Maybe you need to read the OP again.

I would say that the OP says everything about you and nothing about any of the presidents. None of the GA that I have known have sought for positions or seen a calling as a power trip.