Water Pumping

[tmac]

For most people who want to be self-sufficient water pumping is an important issue. I have been on private culinary/domestic wells for the past 30 years, and our current system with a solar pump, higher elevation storage tank, and gravity flow set-up, is by far the best.

Twenty years ago when we did our last strategic relocation, one of the biggest factors was irrigation water. At this point, as times and conditions have changed, we are considering another strategic relocation. And irrigation water is still a big factor.

Does anyone here know anything about new technology and/or developments for larger scale water pumping — say 500+ gpm?

Freedomworks, this should be an issue at Riverbeds. What is happening, or in the works there? Anyone else?

[Fred]

For most people who want to be self-sufficient water pumping is an important issue. I have been on private culinary/domestic wells for the past 30 years, and our current system with a solar pump, higher elevation storage tank, and gravity flow set-up, is by far the best.

Twenty years ago when we did our last strategic relocation, one of the biggest factors was irrigation water. At this point, as times and conditions have changed, we are considering another strategic relocation. And irrigation water is still a big factor.

Does anyone here know anything about new technology and/or developments for larger scale water pumping — say 500+ gpm?

Freedomworks, this should be an issue at Riverbeds. What is happening, or in the works there? Anyone else?

These people have a public pumping station. It pumps about 300 - 400 gallons per minute. Maybe more. https://www.uasd.org/district-listing/m ... e-district Phone is on web site

[tmac]

For most people who want to be self-sufficient water pumping is an important issue. I have been on private culinary/domestic wells for the past 30 years, and our current system with a solar pump, higher elevation storage tank, and gravity flow set-up, is by far the best.

Twenty years ago when we did our last strategic relocation, one of the biggest factors was irrigation water. At this point, as times and conditions have changed, we are considering another strategic relocation. And irrigation water is still a big factor.

Does anyone here know anything about new technology and/or developments for larger scale water pumping — say 500+ gpm?

Freedomworks, this should be an issue at Riverbeds. What is happening, or in the works there? Anyone else?

These people have a public pumping station. It pumps about 300 - 400 gallons per minute. Maybe more. https://www.uasd.org/district-listing/m ... e-district Phone is on web site

Thanks. I know and am surrounded by plenty of farmers who pump thousands of gallons per minute. But they all rely on the Grid to do it. I'm looking for someone who isn't relying on the Grid to pump 500+gpm.

I looked at your link, but can't tell much from that. Are you suggesting that they are using a source of power other than the Grid to pump 300-400 gpm?

[Fred]

For most people who want to be self-sufficient water pumping is an important issue. I have been on private culinary/domestic wells for the past 30 years, and our current system with a solar pump, higher elevation storage tank, and gravity flow set-up, is by far the best.

Twenty years ago when we did our last strategic relocation, one of the biggest factors was irrigation water. At this point, as times and conditions have changed, we are considering another strategic relocation. And irrigation water is still a big factor.

Does anyone here know anything about new technology and/or developments for larger scale water pumping — say 500+ gpm?

Freedomworks, this should be an issue at Riverbeds. What is happening, or in the works there? Anyone else?

These people have a public pumping station. It pumps about 300 - 400 gallons per minute. Maybe more. https://www.uasd.org/district-listing/m ... e-district Phone is on web site

Thanks. I know and am surrounded by plenty of farmers who pump thousands of gallons per minute. But they all rely on the Grid to do it. I'm looking for someone who isn't relying on the Grid to pump 500+gpm.

I looked at your link, but can't tell much from that. Are you suggesting that they are using a source of power other than the Grid to pump 300-400 gpm?

They sell water to people off-grid for $45 up to 8000 gallons. They are on grid, but they do have a diesel back-up generator for when the grid goes down. It works equally well. That isn't their main site. Their main site allows people to register accounts, etc. But it does have a phone number. Also, they got a grant about 5 years ago to get it going. I don't think it cost them a penny except for the land. The original guy died. They operate with a board of directors now. You could get a lot more info by calling them.

[FreedomWorks]

....Does anyone here know anything about new technology and/or developments for larger scale water pumping — say 500+ gpm?

Freedomworks, this should be an issue at Riverbeds. What is happening, or in the works there? Anyone else?

Don't know about any new technology for pumping. At Riverbed Ranch, we have 5 very large wells that were driven using diesel fuel. One can pump upwards of 1,600 g/min.
Our PLAN is to convert at least one of our pivots into using solar power instead of diesel. There's some kind of grant for that, but the pivot has to be operational before applying for the assistance. That's the plan. Since we're paying as we go, finishing the roads is of a much higher priority at the moment.

Why is your target 500 g/m?

[Mala_Suerte]

For most people who want to be self-sufficient water pumping is an important issue. I have been on private culinary/domestic wells for the past 30 years, and our current system with a solar pump, higher elevation storage tank, and gravity flow set-up, is by far the best.

Twenty years ago when we did our last strategic relocation, one of the biggest factors was irrigation water. At this point, as times and conditions have changed, we are considering another strategic relocation. And irrigation water is still a big factor.

Does anyone here know anything about new technology and/or developments for larger scale water pumping — say 500+ gpm?

Freedomworks, this should be an issue at Riverbeds. What is happening, or in the works there? Anyone else?

The link below takes you to a blog specifically addressing solar water pumping. 500 gpm will be a lot for a solar powered system and you'll need a lot of batteries b/c it is unlikely that panels alone will run a pump big enough to get 500 gpm.

https://www.altestore.com/blog/category ... r-pumping/

We just bought a new-to-us house on property and we have adjudicated water rights - we can pull from the creek 150' from our house. We have set up the infrastructure as the previous owners didn't go through the expense of doing so.

[blitzinstripes]

Do you need that flow continually or intermittent? Are you thinking moderately sized agriculture operation? 500 gpm is a lot of flow.

[blitzinstripes]

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-301c ... 56718.html

If gas or diesel is an option for you.

[blitzinstripes]

If you are a good mechanic, any of these pumps can be easily converted to belt/ pulley driven. The Beautiful thing about belt drive is that you have so many options. Hydraulic (water wheel), wind, even a bicycle if you needed to. With proper gear reduction ratio you can achieve optimal input rpm to achieve the maximum flow.

If you have access to a flowing stream on the property and simply need to transfer the water for irrigation, constructing a water wheel makes sense. Proper reduction to achieve input rpm speed to the pump and you're already at the water source for ease of plumbing. Run your piping and DONE.

Bonus reward is the water wheel shaft can also simultaneously run a d/c car generator/alternator to a battery charging system and inverter. I can link a good video here if you like.
https://youtu.be/ZmHY9DkD1Hw

https://www.pumpproducts.com/berkeley-b ... YMQAvD_BwE

[Guest]

The irrigation wells I am used to dealing with pump at least 1000 gpm, so 500 gpm is half of that, but definitely a step-up from subsistence level irrigation.

Let's say you needed to raise enough hay to feed 2-3 horses, at least that many cows (two milk cows, a bull, and several calves), and some sheep and/or goats. That would probably require at least 30+ tons of hay. And, none of that is unreasonable for a self-sufficient family/clan. In most places, feeding hay is a necessity at least in the winter time -- unless you have A LOT of ground. And almost anywhere in the Intermountain West, you're going to have produce the hay in the summer, with irrigation.

Gas and/or diesel are always an option, but I don't consider them to be reliable and/or sustainable.

When the grid goes down, and the gas/diesel runs out, what are you going to do for the next ______ (fill in the blank) years until you either starve to death, or something changes?

That's why I was asking if anyone had any experience, etc., with larger capacity solar pumping. I guess not. But thanks for input.

[tmac]

The irrigation wells I am used to dealing with pump at least 1000 gpm, so 500 gpm is half of that, but definitely a step-up from subsistence level irrigation.

Let's say you needed to raise enough hay to feed 2-3 horses, at least that many cows (two milk cows, a bull, and several calves), and some sheep and/or goats. That would probably require at least 30+ tons of hay. And, none of that is unreasonable for a self-sufficient family/clan. In most places, feeding hay is a necessity at least in the winter time -- unless you have A LOT of ground. And almost anywhere in the Intermountain West, you're going to have produce the hay in the summer, with irrigation.

Gas and/or diesel are always an option, but I don't consider them to be reliable and/or sustainable.

When the grid goes down, and the gas/diesel runs out, what are you going to do for the next ______ (fill in the blank) years until you either starve to death, or something changes?

That's why I was asking if anyone had any experience, etc., with larger capacity solar pumping. I guess not. But thanks for input.

That was me. I was logged in, typed the post, and hit submit, and it kicked me out, and posted it as “guest.” First time I’ve ever had that happen. But I just wanted to clarify that it was me.

[Cruiserdude]

The irrigation wells I am used to dealing with pump at least 1000 gpm, so 500 gpm is half of that, but definitely a step-up from subsistence level irrigation.

Let's say you needed to raise enough hay to feed 2-3 horses, at least that many cows (two milk cows, a bull, and several calves), and some sheep and/or goats. That would probably require at least 30+ tons of hay. And, none of that is unreasonable for a self-sufficient family/clan. In most places, feeding hay is a necessity at least in the winter time -- unless you have A LOT of ground. And almost anywhere in the Intermountain West, you're going to have produce the hay in the summer, with irrigation.

Gas and/or diesel are always an option, but I don't consider them to be reliable and/or sustainable.

When the grid goes down, and the gas/diesel runs out, what are you going to do for the next ______ (fill in the blank) years until you either starve to death, or something changes?

That's why I was asking if anyone had any experience, etc., with larger capacity solar pumping. I guess not. But thanks for input.

That was me. I was logged in, typed the post, and hit submit, and it kicked me out, and posted it as “guest.” First time I’ve ever had that happen. But I just wanted to clarify that it was me.

This glitch happened on a couple other threads with different users as well.... creator(Brian) said it was just a glitch in the matrix and has been corrected

[Mala_Suerte]

The irrigation wells I am used to dealing with pump at least 1000 gpm, so 500 gpm is half of that, but definitely a step-up from subsistence level irrigation.

Let's say you needed to raise enough hay to feed 2-3 horses, at least that many cows (two milk cows, a bull, and several calves), and some sheep and/or goats. That would probably require at least 30+ tons of hay. And, none of that is unreasonable for a self-sufficient family/clan. In most places, feeding hay is a necessity at least in the winter time -- unless you have A LOT of ground. And almost anywhere in the Intermountain West, you're going to have produce the hay in the summer, with irrigation.

Gas and/or diesel are always an option, but I don't consider them to be reliable and/or sustainable.

When the grid goes down, and the gas/diesel runs out, what are you going to do for the next ______ (fill in the blank) years until you either starve to death, or something changes?

That's why I was asking if anyone had any experience, etc., with larger capacity solar pumping. I guess not. But thanks for input.

That was me. I was logged in, typed the post, and hit submit, and it kicked me out, and posted it as “guest.” First time I’ve ever had that happen. But I just wanted to clarify that it was me.

The beauty of diesel engines is that they can run on a multitude of liquids, not just dedicated diesel. The original diesel engine was built to run off peanut oil, if I remember correctly. You can run diesel engines off of vegetable oil, used motor oil, used transmission fluid and the list goes on. I have seen the aforementioned items used and the key is filtration. You need to remove contaminants. In the winter, vegetable oil has to be preheated as it tends to gel. My friends who use it as an alt-fuel tend to start their diesel engine on diesel, what for it to get to temperature and then switch over to vegetable oil - they have routed coolant around the vegetable oil tank to warm it up as the coolant gets hot. Newer diesels are more finicky w/ alt fuels b/c of the electronics, sadly.

I think it's a great idea to use solar as much as possible in a SHTF scenario for a variety of reasons, but there are ways to run a diesel engine besides regular diesel.

[tmac]

I grew up with large diesel irrigation pumps. I agree with everything that has been said about the versatility of diesel and diesel engines, etc., and usually keep at least 1000 gallons of diesel fuel on hand at all times. And, it's not hard to go through that much diesel fairly quickly pumping larger quantities of water.

But my inquiries have essentially taken me full circle. I just wondered if anyone was aware of any new(er) high capacity solar pumping technology. But it doesn't sound like it. So, I'm circling back around to my previous position, which is that I would rather not have to buck the law of gravity with any sort of fuel, energy source, or technology when it comes to higher capacity irrigation.

[Mala_Suerte]

Therein lies the problem w/ solar/wind - battery technology is lagging. I'm slowly building out a solar system, but I'm also focused on storing enough diesel, not just for vehicles, but water pumping as well.

[harakim]

For most people who want to be self-sufficient water pumping is an important issue. I have been on private culinary/domestic wells for the past 30 years, and our current system with a solar pump, higher elevation storage tank, and gravity flow set-up, is by far the best.

Twenty years ago when we did our last strategic relocation, one of the biggest factors was irrigation water. At this point, as times and conditions have changed, we are considering another strategic relocation. And irrigation water is still a big factor.

Does anyone here know anything about new technology and/or developments for larger scale water pumping — say 500+ gpm?

Freedomworks, this should be an issue at Riverbeds. What is happening, or in the works there? Anyone else?

I don't have experience with this, but there are a few potential issues with your idea. 500 gpm is 4175 pounds. If you're in Utah, you're probably lifting that 1000 feet, so that would take 4175000 foot pounds of energy or 1.57kWh. 1.57kWh in 1 minute = 94 342 watts. That's a lot of power and as previously mentioned, you will not reliably get that from solar panels in an grid down situation unless you spend a ton of money. You can use batteries, but you'll need a 150 hp pump. It's definitely doable with electricity but it would probably be tens of thousands of dollars.

I would consider a bio diesel pump, but it's possible the plants you grow to produce the oil will take much of the water you're pumping. I don't know enough about large scale oil crops to have any idea. I think this would work though, but then you need the infrastructure to produce the diesel.

A third option, that once again won't work well in a desert (hence the fact they were basically uninhabited until the last 200 years) is a wood-powered steam engine. Steam engines are still produced. In a desert, you could stockpile coal, though. A ton of coal produces over 8000 kwh of energy. Of course, it will be inefficient, but you could power that pump for a million gallons at the cost of a few tons of coal in a steam engine.

There's also the question of 1. Can your well support 500 gpm? and 2. For how long?

Reducing your need for water would be more sustainable in a collapse situation. The Israelis use drip irrigation to save on water. All of your equipment can break and how many backups are you really going to have? You might as well reduce the need for the equipment.

Now if you have a river nearby and the rights to draw the water, that makes things a lot less complicated. You could power a motor like that on solar probably, but you'd more likely want to power several smaller ones for redundancy and cost. Again, I am not a water pumping expert, just someone who has thought about a few tangential subjects.

I also feel compelled to say I expect that the gads will probably just take your water pump and solar installation if it's large.

[blitzinstripes]

I think an important factor to consider is that during the coming times of tribulation it probably isn't going to be possible to run a large farming operation. You seem to be thinking irrigation of large(r) fields and watering a moderate herd of livestock.

I believe that successful ag operations (especially in unfavorable climates) will be on a much smaller scale. A few chickens and hogs. A small garden, perhaps a root cellar or even an ice house if you are fortunate. Lots of scavenging from abandoned dwellings, and hunting and fishing as your situation permits.

[SunriseBoy]

You got the idea. The ground water in the US, especially is remarkably toxic. And rain water tanks are a prudent addition to any small homesteader. In Oz, almost everyone outside of major and minor cities are well equipped with r'w tanks.

[tmac]

Some of the comments here have me genuinely curious about what kind of agricultural production models and scales of production people here think are going to be sustainable? Again, just curious.

[JK4Woods]

Some of the comments here have me genuinely curious about what kind of agricultural production models and scales of production are going to be sustainable? Again, just curious.

Back to “truck farming” where one truckload a week is produced, from a variety of vegetables, fruits and nuts.

(A truck being a long bed flatbed with stake sides, not a semi trailer full)…

It’ll be weekly planting different seed varieties in spring, and early harvest summer, rolling into late harvest in fall.

Monoculture is unbalanced in so many ways.
I see five thousand acre wheat and corn production farms being idle for the most part.

Better to have a multifaceted farm, which can provide for a hundred local families a variety of crops, both fresh eating, and extra for them to can/preserve their own for winter.

Much more labor intensive, provided by urban refugees who escaped, and are desperate to land somewhere with a decent Christian society. With opportunity to work to eat three meals a day…

After walking from LA to rain irrigated farmland, all their pride and uppitiness will be beat out of them (refiners fire humbling the glories of man)… sleeping in the barn and working the fields will feel good to them…

[JK4Woods]

I spent three years working in 3rd world countries building rope pumps for irrigation.
Very effective. Cheap to make, raises a lot of water. Large gardens or tree orchards would benefit.

https://www.rural-water-supply.net/en/i ... /rope-pump

[blitzinstripes]

I'm a little further north than I would like, but I'm confident I can cobble together a decent greenhouse that will extend my growing season to about 8 months.

[Mala_Suerte]

Some of the comments here have me genuinely curious about what kind of agricultural production models and scales of production people here think are going to be sustainable? Again, just curious.

Depends on "when" you are talking about. There are some prophecies that I have read that state that at one point in time, in the US, there will be roving mobs that will be looting and killing. B/c of the mobs, it will be impossible to farm and carry on day to day business. There's no official timeline, so when this occurs is speculation. But some of the timelines I've seen indicate this will occur after WWIII and at or around the point where the US is splintered and possibly in a civil war. Again, the timeline is an author's opinion of when and what order things will occur.

[FrankOne]

The irrigation wells I am used to dealing with pump at least 1000 gpm, so 500 gpm is half of that, but definitely a step-up from subsistence level irrigation.

Let's say you needed to raise enough hay to feed 2-3 horses, at least that many cows (two milk cows, a bull, and several calves), and some sheep and/or goats. That would probably require at least 30+ tons of hay. And, none of that is unreasonable for a self-sufficient family/clan. In most places, feeding hay is a necessity at least in the winter time -- unless you have A LOT of ground. And almost anywhere in the Intermountain West, you're going to have produce the hay in the summer, with irrigation.

Gas and/or diesel are always an option, but I don't consider them to be reliable and/or sustainable.

When the grid goes down, and the gas/diesel runs out, what are you going to do for the next ______ (fill in the blank) years until you either starve to death, or something changes?

That's why I was asking if anyone had any experience, etc., with larger capacity solar pumping. I guess not. But thanks for input.

That was me. I was logged in, typed the post, and hit submit, and it kicked me out, and posted it as “guest.” First time I’ve ever had that happen. But I just wanted to clarify that it was me.

everything that I've used required a generator or grid power.

one idea that comes to mind is to power it off of a pto from a tractor. I would guess it would be quite a simple fabrication project.

[FrankOne]

I spent three years working in 3rd world countries building rope pumps for irrigation.
Very effective. Cheap to make, raises a lot of water. Large gardens or tree orchards would benefit.

https://www.rural-water-supply.net/en/i ... /rope-pump

very interesting concept. Could be valuable to run a well when power goes out, although solar pumps etc are the 'easy' way. I looked at the link and I'm curious of what the drive pulley looks like. Oh... looking at it again, it's pulled by hand over a pulley. Cool. I would guess that if a diesal/gas engine w/pulley wouldn't work well due to the force pushing on the cups as well as the differential in size of cups and rope on a drive pulley.