Marred Servant

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by Shawn Henry »

Pazooka wrote: January 5th, 2023, 8:07 pm One of the things I’m seeing is that we’re ascribing magical qualities to the BofM translation.
Prophetic, not magical.

The Brass Plates would have been more accurate because they were made before the Southern Kingdom's apostacy. We also know of their greater purity because they had the words of Zenock and Zenos.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Marred Servant

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Bronco73idi wrote: January 5th, 2023, 11:42 pm We as a church are blessed that Nephi and JS told us to study Isaiah.
And don't forget the commandment in 3 Ne to study it came straight from the lips of the Savior.

Moroni in Mormon 8 also admonishes us to search Isaiah.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Marred Servant

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Bronco73idi wrote:
Isaiah says we should believe the unlearned man the the lord chose over the learned man.
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Pazooka
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Re: Marred Servant

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 8th, 2023, 6:39 am
Pazooka wrote: January 5th, 2023, 8:07 pm One of the things I’m seeing is that we’re ascribing magical qualities to the BofM translation.
Prophetic, not magical.

The Brass Plates would have been more accurate because they were made before the Southern Kingdom's apostacy. We also know of their greater purity because they had the words of Zenock and Zenos.
How do you know they were made before their apostasy? What if what was done during Josiah’s reign was apostasy?

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Re: Marred Servant

Post by Bronco73idi »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:45 am
Bronco73idi wrote:
Isaiah says we should believe the unlearned man the the lord chose over the learned man.
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Isaiah 29:9-14

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Re: Marred Servant

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 8th, 2023, 6:47 am
Bronco73idi wrote: January 5th, 2023, 11:42 pm We as a church are blessed that Nephi and JS told us to study Isaiah.
And don't forget the commandment in 3 Ne to study it came straight from the lips of the Savior.

Moroni in Mormon 8 also admonishes us to search Isaiah.
The idea of Isaiah being “sealed” is false

2 Nephi 25: 4 Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy. But I give unto you a prophecy,

7 But behold, I proceed with mine own prophecy, according to my plainness; in the which I know that no man can err; nevertheless, in the days that the prophecies of Isaiah shall be fulfilled men shall know of a surety, at the times when they shall come to pass.

They will be open to all who diligently search them in the last day but they were not sealed.

So when Isaiah 3:25 (Matthew 10:35-36, Luke 12:51-53) comes to pass and men will die by the sword, the ones who have read Isaiah will surely know

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Marred Servant

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Bronco73idi wrote: January 8th, 2023, 10:55 am The idea of Isaiah being “sealed” is false
I agree with you in that we don't need to wait for some prophet to come along and unseal Isaiah, but the book can still be simply sealed by the spirit and unsealed by the spirit. There are different levels of being sealed. I think our learned precepts tell us that only a prophet can unseal a book, but as you pointed out in the scriptures the spirit of prophecy unseals a book.

My personal opinion is that it is sealed from the casual reader but becomes unsealed when you study it with the spirit.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Marred Servant

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Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 9:17 am How do you know they were made before their apostasy? What if what was done during Josiah’s reign was apostasy?
I don't know that they were made before some apostacy, but they were clearly made before the complete apostacy.

First, if Satan had the power, he would have removed the words of Zenos and Zenock. Their inclusion automatically denotes some level of protection from apostacy. Second, Lehi's Jerusalem wasn't destroyed until at least a couple decades after they got the plates, so they hadn't yet reached the fulness of iniquity and who knows how long the plates had already been placed in Laban's repository, probably one to several decades before that, which place them very close to the source.

It is so odd that you give priority to the Masoretic text because it's the oldest text, but when an even older text like the Brass Plates proves centuries older you don't give it priority, despite even having prophetic endorsement.

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gruden2.0
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Re: Marred Servant

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Pazooka wrote: January 5th, 2023, 8:07 pm One of the things I’m seeing is that we’re ascribing magical qualities to the BofM translation. Our best guess is that it came from the record kept on the brass plates which was one of several copies. These were taken by Nephi just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem - a destruction that came because of apostasy. Why would the brass plate version have been more correct than any other early version? When differences are noted, why are we assuming that the BofM version has to be the correct one if Joseph Smith merely translated it?

There are a lot of things inanimate object simply don’t do in real life. But in Biblical prophesy...they do. The desert will rejoice...the potsherds strive together, etc

It would be interesting if the BofM version of these verses were, in fact, the least correct as far as making them plain to the understanding of the non-Hebrew reader.
A couple things:

When I examined this scripture after encountering this thread, I reflexively tried to marry Gileadi's translation with the BoM version, as you did. It was quickly apparent it didn't work. That ending set of verses presents a complete idea that just doesn't make nearly as much sense with the Gileadi version, and presents an idea that was probably what Isaiah intended as it is more internally consistent.

Another thing is that there are many versions of Isaiah out there, especially with the Dead Sea scrolls material. Gileadi I'm sure did the best he could with what are considered the standard set of Hebrew texts with which to use. I have nothing but positive to say about his work and his Isaiah translation, in general, is my go-to as it was the one that finally opened my mind to understand Isaiah. It's a good translation with a syntax that's easier for us to comprehend, we just have to understand there are some limitations as well.

That being said, we don't really know the origin of the brass plates, but given its ownership from which Nephi obtained it, that it was a prized possession of the Elders of Jerusalem, and the importance the Lord attached to it, I suspect it's the most pristine version of the writings of Moses and other ancient texts that existed. For that reason I feel very certain that in the future the brass plates will make another appearance to restore corrupted texts that we have to work with, alongside the other records to come forth. In my mind, this snippet of Isaiah proves that the BoM has it right.

If you want to think of it as magical, that is your prerogative, we all have to overcome our unbelief if we want to make progress. I see so much of it even among this group it's kind of astounding.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Marred Servant

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gruden2.0 wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:36 pm and the importance the Lord attached to it, I suspect it's the most pristine version of the writings of Moses and other ancient texts that existed. For that reason I feel very certain that in the future the brass plates will make another appearance to restore corrupted texts that we have to work with, alongside the other records to come forth. In my mind, this snippet of Isaiah proves that the BoM has it right.
That's a good point that I missed. The Lord did place a high importance on Lehi's family obtaining them. There was no other set of plates or records the Lord told them to get.

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Re: Marred Servant

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gruden2.0 wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:36 pm
Pazooka wrote: January 5th, 2023, 8:07 pm One of the things I’m seeing is that we’re ascribing magical qualities to the BofM translation. Our best guess is that it came from the record kept on the brass plates which was one of several copies. These were taken by Nephi just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem - a destruction that came because of apostasy. Why would the brass plate version have been more correct than any other early version? When differences are noted, why are we assuming that the BofM version has to be the correct one if Joseph Smith merely translated it?

There are a lot of things inanimate object simply don’t do in real life. But in Biblical prophesy...they do. The desert will rejoice...the potsherds strive together, etc

It would be interesting if the BofM version of these verses were, in fact, the least correct as far as making them plain to the understanding of the non-Hebrew reader.
A couple things:

When I examined this scripture after encountering this thread, I reflexively tried to marry Gileadi's translation with the BoM version, as you did. It was quickly apparent it didn't work. That ending set of verses presents a complete idea that just doesn't make nearly as much sense with the Gileadi version, and presents an idea that was probably what Isaiah intended as it is more internally consistent.

Another thing is that there are many versions of Isaiah out there, especially with the Dead Sea scrolls material. Gileadi I'm sure did the best he could with what are considered the standard set of Hebrew texts with which to use. I have nothing but positive to say about his work and his Isaiah translation, in general, is my go-to as it was the one that finally opened my mind to understand Isaiah. It's a good translation with a syntax that's easier for us to comprehend, we just have to understand there are some limitations as well.

That being said, we don't really know the origin of the brass plates, but given its ownership from which Nephi obtained it, that it was a prized possession of the Elders of Jerusalem, and the importance the Lord attached to it, I suspect it's the most pristine version of the writings of Moses and other ancient texts that existed. For that reason I feel very certain that in the future the brass plates will make another appearance to restore corrupted texts that we have to work with, alongside the other records to come forth. In my mind, this snippet of Isaiah proves that the BoM has it right.

If you want to think of it as magical, that is your prerogative, we all have to overcome our unbelief if we want to make progress. I see so much of it even among this group it's kind of astounding.
Because it’s not just Gileadi who interprets the Hebrew that way.

Unbelief in the perfection of records does not equal lack of faith in Christ. It is an attitude of seeking rather than the complacency of allowing others to receive all things on your behalf…And that there is a truth worthy of finding that is not merely given to the idle.
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gruden2.0
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Re: Marred Servant

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Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:47 pm Because it’s not just Gileadi who interprets the Hebrew that way.
I'm well aware of that. Gileadi was a rabbinical student and spent years studying the same Isaiah reference texts many other scholars have used over the years.
Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:47 pm Unbelief in the perfection of records does not equal lack of faith in Christ. It is an attitude of seeking rather than the complacency of allowing others to receive all things on your behalf…And that there is a truth worthy of finding that is not merely given to the idle.
Again, if you want to go with the mainstream scholars, then by all means. You'll find lots of friends on that well-worn path.

Joseph Smith's calling was a seer responsible for translating ancient scriptural texts, and I have the belief the Lord provided him with the proper materials and ability to decode them. This example you provided is a small reminder to me my faith is on the right path, so I'm at least glad you brought it up so I could look at it for a small re-affirmation. And that is something I received for myself.

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Pazooka
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Re: Marred Servant

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gruden2.0 wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:59 pm
Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:47 pm Because it’s not just Gileadi who interprets the Hebrew that way.
I'm well aware of that. Gileadi was a rabbinical student and spent years studying the same Isaiah reference texts many other scholars have used over the years.
Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:47 pm Unbelief in the perfection of records does not equal lack of faith in Christ. It is an attitude of seeking rather than the complacency of allowing others to receive all things on your behalf…And that there is a truth worthy of finding that is not merely given to the idle.
Again, if you want to go with the mainstream scholars, then by all means. You'll find lots of friends on that well-worn path.

Joseph Smith's calling was a seer responsible for translating ancient scriptural texts, and I have the belief the Lord provided him with the proper materials and ability to decode them. This example you provided is a small reminder to me my faith is on the right path, so I'm at least glad you brought it up so I could look at it for a small re-affirmation. And that is something I received for myself.
That’s me...so mainstream.

No matter how you dress it, it’s still reliance on man - - the man who recorded the sayings of Isaiah, the man who edited it who knows how many times, the man who translated it (also could have been more than once), etc. If any of ye lack wisdom, ask...the scriptures? The scriptures pointed JS to God but they weren’t a substitute for Him.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by Bronco73idi »

Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 3:08 pm
gruden2.0 wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:59 pm
Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:47 pm Because it’s not just Gileadi who interprets the Hebrew that way.
I'm well aware of that. Gileadi was a rabbinical student and spent years studying the same Isaiah reference texts many other scholars have used over the years.
Pazooka wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:47 pm Unbelief in the perfection of records does not equal lack of faith in Christ. It is an attitude of seeking rather than the complacency of allowing others to receive all things on your behalf…And that there is a truth worthy of finding that is not merely given to the idle.
Again, if you want to go with the mainstream scholars, then by all means. You'll find lots of friends on that well-worn path.

Joseph Smith's calling was a seer responsible for translating ancient scriptural texts, and I have the belief the Lord provided him with the proper materials and ability to decode them. This example you provided is a small reminder to me my faith is on the right path, so I'm at least glad you brought it up so I could look at it for a small re-affirmation. And that is something I received for myself.
That’s me...so mainstream.

No matter how you dress it, it’s still reliance on man - - the man who recorded the sayings of Isaiah, the man who edited it who knows how many times, the man who translated it (also could have been more than once), etc. If any of ye lack wisdom, ask...the scriptures? The scriptures pointed JS to God but they weren’t a substitute for Him.
This sounds so sexist 😂

simpleton
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Re: Marred Servant

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gruden2.0 wrote: January 8th, 2023, 2:36 pm
Pazooka wrote: January 5th, 2023, 8:07 pm One of the things I’m seeing is that we’re ascribing magical qualities to the BofM translation. Our best guess is that it came from the record kept on the brass plates which was one of several copies. These were taken by Nephi just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem - a destruction that came because of apostasy. Why would the brass plate version have been more correct than any other early version? When differences are noted, why are we assuming that the BofM version has to be the correct one if Joseph Smith merely translated it?

There are a lot of things inanimate object simply don’t do in real life. But in Biblical prophesy...they do. The desert will rejoice...the potsherds strive together, etc

It would be interesting if the BofM version of these verses were, in fact, the least correct as far as making them plain to the understanding of the non-Hebrew reader.
A couple things:

When I examined this scripture after encountering this thread, I reflexively tried to marry Gileadi's translation with the BoM version, as you did. It was quickly apparent it didn't work. That ending set of verses presents a complete idea that just doesn't make nearly as much sense with the Gileadi version, and presents an idea that was probably what Isaiah intended as it is more internally consistent.

Another thing is that there are many versions of Isaiah out there, especially with the Dead Sea scrolls material. Gileadi I'm sure did the best he could with what are considered the standard set of Hebrew texts with which to use. I have nothing but positive to say about his work and his Isaiah translation, in general, is my go-to as it was the one that finally opened my mind to understand Isaiah. It's a good translation with a syntax that's easier for us to comprehend, we just have to understand there are some limitations as well.

That being said, we don't really know the origin of the brass plates, but given its ownership from which Nephi obtained it, that it was a prized possession of the Elders of Jerusalem, and the importance the Lord attached to it, I suspect it's the most pristine version of the writings of Moses and other ancient texts that existed. For that reason I feel very certain that in the future the brass plates will make another appearance to restore corrupted texts that we have to work with, alongside the other records to come forth. In my mind, this snippet of Isaiah proves that the BoM has it right.

If you want to think of it as magical, that is your prerogative, we all have to overcome our unbelief if we want to make progress. I see so much of it even among this group it's kind of astounding.
I think that Gileadi was the person God chose to do what he did, to do a translation by "the way/ways of the Jews". Also speaking of having the Spirit to understand Isaiah, a couple of old timers, (since passed away) I have had many discussions with, in the earlier days, about Isaiah, (way before Gileadi came along), told me that a few times they were studying the old testament, God literally opened up a verse or paragraph or chapter to them and gave them an understanding that they never even thought of before. One told me about how the words literally appeared like unto gold letters like that one king saw on the wall.
But that God gave them to understand it in way way they never understood before.
And interestingly enough both of them, (two) had similar experiences, (at different times) and it was about this "Servant".
But, no man will understand the scriptures truly and fully unless he has the same Spirit that the prophets had when they wrote them.
I think that what and how Gileadi did with Isaiah was perfect timing and of a necessity. Through the ways and means of the study of the Jews.
The idea that Isaiah talks about a Servant/Arm/Deliverer etc, for these last days to come forth, imo, to give hope to the righteous "in these last days of trouble and gloom".

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Re: Marred Servant

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simpleton wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:05 pm
The idea that Isaiah talks about a Servant/Arm/Deliverer etc, for these last days to come forth, imo, to give hope to the righteous "in these last days of trouble and gloom".
Michael Sherwin saw signs in the sky indicative of a standing in July 2023. 2448 is an interesting way to represent a date when something spectacular will likely occur. ASHH ends 2025-2040.

Three things on the time horizon.

Gloom, but not trouble. :mrgreen:

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Re: Marred Servant

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At one point I was digging into Muslim end times prophecies. Interesting was that their version of the anti-Christ ie the evil one who fools people, builds statues of himself, demands to be worshiped, takes control of governments, etc, and who then organizes the world against the righteous, was to be recognized by having a great injury to his eye.

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Re: Marred Servant

Post by BeNotDeceived »

hedgehog wrote: January 18th, 2023, 10:53 pm At one point I was digging into Muslim end times prophecies. Interesting was that their version of the anti-Christ ie the evil one who fools people, builds statues of himself, demands to be worshiped, takes control of governments, etc, and who then organizes the world against the righteous, was to be recognized by having a great injury to his eye.
Are cataracts an injury to the eye?

simpleton
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by simpleton »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 14th, 2023, 5:41 pm
simpleton wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:05 pm
The idea that Isaiah talks about a Servant/Arm/Deliverer etc, for these last days to come forth, imo, to give hope to the righteous "in these last days of trouble and gloom".
Michael Sherwin saw signs in the sky indicative of a standing in July 2023. 2448 is an interesting way to represent a date when something spectacular will likely occur. ASHH ends 2025-2040.

Three things on the time horizon.

Gloom, but not trouble. :mrgreen:
This I'll have have to give you, you don't give up. But, the blind lead the blind and both will fall into the ditch.

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DJB
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by DJB »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 14th, 2023, 5:41 pm
simpleton wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:05 pm
The idea that Isaiah talks about a Servant/Arm/Deliverer etc, for these last days to come forth, imo, to give hope to the righteous "in these last days of trouble and gloom".
Michael Sherwin saw signs in the sky indicative of a standing in July 2023. 2448 is an interesting way to represent a date when something spectacular will likely occur. ASHH ends 2025-2040.

Three things on the time horizon.

Gloom, but not trouble. :mrgreen:
If you honestly believe that Michael Sherwin is the Davidic Servant I can guarantee you’ll miss the real deal when he hits the scene. The irony of your handle 😬

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Marred Servant

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DJB wrote: January 19th, 2023, 6:24 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: January 14th, 2023, 5:41 pm
simpleton wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:05 pm
The idea that Isaiah talks about a Servant/Arm/Deliverer etc, for these last days to come forth, imo, to give hope to the righteous "in these last days of trouble and gloom".
Michael Sherwin saw signs in the sky indicative of a standing in July 2023. 2448 is an interesting way to represent a date when something spectacular will likely occur. ASHH ends 2025-2040.

Three things on the time horizon.

Gloom, but not trouble. :mrgreen:
If you honestly believe that Michael Sherwin is the Davidic Servant I can guarantee you’ll miss the real deal when he hits the scene. The irony of your handle 😬
How will you know the real deal. :?:

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darknesstolight
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by darknesstolight »

simpleton wrote: January 19th, 2023, 6:07 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: January 14th, 2023, 5:41 pm
simpleton wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:05 pm
The idea that Isaiah talks about a Servant/Arm/Deliverer etc, for these last days to come forth, imo, to give hope to the righteous "in these last days of trouble and gloom".
Michael Sherwin saw signs in the sky indicative of a standing in July 2023. 2448 is an interesting way to represent a date when something spectacular will likely occur. ASHH ends 2025-2040.

Three things on the time horizon.

Gloom, but not trouble. :mrgreen:
This I'll have have to give you, you don't give up. But, the blind lead the blind and both will fall into the ditch.
Says the blind man from a simple town.

...

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DJB
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by DJB »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 19th, 2023, 10:54 am
DJB wrote: January 19th, 2023, 6:24 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: January 14th, 2023, 5:41 pm
simpleton wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:05 pm
The idea that Isaiah talks about a Servant/Arm/Deliverer etc, for these last days to come forth, imo, to give hope to the righteous "in these last days of trouble and gloom".
Michael Sherwin saw signs in the sky indicative of a standing in July 2023. 2448 is an interesting way to represent a date when something spectacular will likely occur. ASHH ends 2025-2040.

Three things on the time horizon.

Gloom, but not trouble. :mrgreen:
If you honestly believe that Michael Sherwin is the Davidic Servant I can guarantee you’ll miss the real deal when he hits the scene. The irony of your handle 😬
How will you know the real deal. :?:
Easy. There are so many scriptures instructing us on how to discern him when he comes as the preparer of the way before the 2nd coming. He will be like Moses and have power over the elements eventually, but not at first. He will bring forth scripture. Those with the Holy Ghost as their guide will discern him and also discern impostors.

3 Nephi 21:11
Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

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Being There
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by Being There »

Pazooka wrote: January 2nd, 2023, 10:17 pm Oh….all the things we think we know….will probably turn out to be worthless in the end. But the chase “vale la pena”

Turns out the word “marred” in Isaiah 52 could actually be “anointed.”

As many were astonished at him –

His appearance was so marred,

Beyond human semblance,

And his form beyond that of the sons of men – (Isa. 52.14)

This verse has significantly different forms in the ancient versions. The MT [Masoretic Text] and the Targum, which used the MT, say he was disfigured beyond human semblance, such that people were astonished (thus RSV). The Qumran Isaiah scroll,69 however, has ‘he was anointed beyond human semblance’ such that kings and people were astonished. The difference is one letter: mšt in the MT and mšty in the Qumran scroll. The Servant ‘anointed beyond human semblance’ means he was transfigured, and so, as did Enoch, he became like one of the glorious ones. (Barker, Margaret. Temple Mysticism: An Introduction (pp. 9-10). SPCK. Kindle Edition.)
I mean…how would a tortured, disfigured man surprise anyone? A glorious, transfigured one, on the other hand…

I love it. so much.
as I've replied - many times in this forum - to quote myself -

"I thought the same thing years ago.
but, who said he has to be injured ? like hurt physically.

taken from a comment I made a few years ago.

as I've said before.

I don't think that "marred" means marred physically - as one might think. (like your body being hurt)
Look at this verse below. *** "therefore they shall not hurt him,
although he shall be marred because of them"
Even though the next line says " I will heal him "
Most people read this to mean that he was hurt physically, but
the line before says "therefore they shall not hurt him"
So I believe that there are other ways that a person can marred and be healed
other than when their body gets hurt.

I believe the marred servant is marred because there will be
many people that don't believe him, they hurt his character.
He may be discredited falsely. defaced.
I looked up the definition of deface and here is what I found - Deface - spoil the surface or appearance of (something), e.g.,
by drawing or writing on it; mar or disfigure.

He will be sent to his own people and
he will come with Christ's words .( the sealed portion )
and just as Christ's own people rejected him, so it is with this servant.
So his own people (the church and members don't believe him, so he is marred by them.

When the Mormons mar the Davidic Servant is when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
They will have filled the measure of their iniquity,

***
3 Nephi 21:10

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him,
although he shall be marred because of them.
Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

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Being There
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Re: Marred Servant

Post by Being There »

Being There wrote: January 19th, 2023, 8:34 pm
Pazooka wrote: January 2nd, 2023, 10:17 pm Oh….all the things we think we know….will probably turn out to be worthless in the end. But the chase “vale la pena”

Turns out the word “marred” in Isaiah 52 could actually be “anointed.”

As many were astonished at him –

His appearance was so marred,

Beyond human semblance,

And his form beyond that of the sons of men – (Isa. 52.14)

This verse has significantly different forms in the ancient versions. The MT [Masoretic Text] and the Targum, which used the MT, say he was disfigured beyond human semblance, such that people were astonished (thus RSV). The Qumran Isaiah scroll,69 however, has ‘he was anointed beyond human semblance’ such that kings and people were astonished. The difference is one letter: mšt in the MT and mšty in the Qumran scroll. The Servant ‘anointed beyond human semblance’ means he was transfigured, and so, as did Enoch, he became like one of the glorious ones. (Barker, Margaret. Temple Mysticism: An Introduction (pp. 9-10). SPCK. Kindle Edition.)
I mean…how would a tortured, disfigured man surprise anyone? A glorious, transfigured one, on the other hand…

I love it. so much.
as I've replied - many times in this forum - to quote myself -

"I thought the same thing years ago.
but, who said he has to be injured ? like hurt physically.

taken from a comment I made a few years ago.

as I've said before.

I don't think that "marred" means marred physically - as one might think. (like your body being hurt)
Look at this verse below. *** "therefore they shall not hurt him,
although he shall be marred because of them"
Even though the next line says " I will heal him "
Most people read this to mean that he was hurt physically, but
the line before says "therefore they shall not hurt him"
So I believe that there are other ways that a person can marred and be healed
other than when their body gets hurt.

I believe the marred servant is marred because there will be
many people that don't believe him, they hurt his character.
He may be discredited falsely. defaced.
I looked up the definition of deface and here is what I found - Deface - spoil the surface or appearance of (something), e.g.,
by drawing or writing on it; mar or disfigure.

He will be sent to his own people and
he will come with Christ's words .( the sealed portion )
and just as Christ's own people rejected him, so it is with this servant.
So his own people (the church and members don't believe him, so he is marred by them.

When the Mormons mar the Davidic Servant is when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
They will have filled the measure of their iniquity,

***
3 Nephi 21:10

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him,
although he shall be marred because of them.
Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
I also added this -

"I think "although" is an important word.

I take this verse as saying -
"they shall not hurt him"
"although he shall be marred because of them".

so like it says - he's not hurt (physically)at all.
But he's marred."

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