The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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JLHPROF wrote: January 1st, 2023, 5:57 pm I still find it fascinating that you are more concerned with what it says than its provenance.
Provenance, lol!

You mean like, someone claiming "Joseph said", Brigham Young decades later pulling a revelation out of his desk drawer, or BY pulling something right out of his @#$?

The Joseph Smith 1830 to 1844 scriptures get sh!tcanned to make way for Brigham's 1876 additions. How's that for provenance?

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 5th, 2023, 3:52 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 1st, 2023, 9:09 am the only way to know truth is through the Holy Ghost.
That, we can all agree on.

The problem is, too many interpret that to mean asking the holy spirit when they should be studying what the holy spirit has already said on the matter.

When we ignore what the Lord has already said and ask him a question he has already answered we are in a sense telling him what we expect the answer to be. He then can only give us according to the desires of our hearts.
By allowing all of mankind to receive personal revelation, that means we also allow full autonomy to make some crazy mistakes, to be wrong.

I would also add, who is the only official source to decide what the Spirit has already said on the matter? The Holy Ghost, that’s who. “What the Lord has already said” is a fascinating phrase. Do we take all scripture as pure and fully binding? No. There are errors of man. So the original statement stands “the only way to know truth is through the Holy Ghost”, a full equity partner in the Godhead with a special calling to reveal all things to mankind.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 5th, 2023, 3:46 am
Havenseeker wrote: January 1st, 2023, 9:02 am I haven’t determined if this work is one made up by a clever person (or group of people) or if it is truly what it claims to be.
Havenseeker wrote: January 1st, 2023, 3:13 pm I am used to reading books with mixed truths.
Looks like you answered yourself.

I think "made up" or "true" is too black and white while all of reality is some shade of gray like "mixed truths".

I don't think anyone made up the book, but rather that heaven gave people what they deserve. A people who are under condemnation for rejecting the BoM are not high on God's priority to list to get more works in purity, so when they ask for more, they get it, but with mud in the water.

There are, no doubt, some good things that can be learned from this record, but there are far better things in our current cannon that we have yet to get to. I just studied Zechariah a few weeks ago and I was amazed at what I found. There is just way too much meat to be wasting time with potential milk.
Milk huh… ok, I guess we’ve read different records.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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More good stuff to ponder in our morning study as a family:

14) For, I would say unto you somewhat more about they who do govern the land, as also about they who do think to guide the church, they have forgotten the commandments of the Peacemaker and also their covenants. It shall be unto them just as it has always been unto the children of men when they turn away the face from that holy Way into which the Peacemaker does continually try to lead them. They shall become so puffed in their pride that they shall esteem their own ways as the best and fairest ways in all the world. Yea, even they shall say that their ways are the Peacemaker’s ways and unless a man follow their words and dismiss all others, he cannot be saved.

How have church leaders forgotten the Lords commandments? I could outline a whole list of doctrines.

I know it sounds harsh for a member of the church to be accused of pride, but the prevailing doctrines of the church are prideful. And that last sentence…. What a doosey. “When Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.” “He is the Lord’s mouthpiece.” Sometimes they have been historically, and sometimes they speak without any authority.

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FrankOne
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 5th, 2023, 12:56 am
FrankOne wrote: January 4th, 2023, 9:58 pm
creator wrote: January 4th, 2023, 5:10 pm I thought some years ago I had read that the Nemenhah Records had been debunked as fake (i.e. a modern creation), but I don't recall now where I might have come across that.

Anyways, if you find value/truth in the Nemenhah Records, so be it. I personally am exploring a variety of resources that I find to be of much value, and contain truth; yet most LDS would likely reject much of what I'm learning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was about to post the same. I looked up Nemenhah and found it was the Mentinah papers which I have found quite credible. I then searched to find the 'fake' book. I recalled that the author admitted that his intention was to make a mockery of the LDS church.

here it is. The author has a similar name.


The Sealed Portion - The Final Testament of Jesus Christ Paperback – April 6, 2005
by Christopher Marc Nemelka (Author)
The Nemenhah Records have nothing to do with "The Sealed Portion." They aren't even close. They are an entirely separate set of records.
yes. Perhaps i didn't say it clearly enough.

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Lineman1012
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 5th, 2023, 7:53 am More good stuff to ponder in our morning study as a family:

14) For, I would say unto you somewhat more about they who do govern the land, as also about they who do think to guide the church, they have forgotten the commandments of the Peacemaker and also their covenants. It shall be unto them just as it has always been unto the children of men when they turn away the face from that holy Way into which the Peacemaker does continually try to lead them. They shall become so puffed in their pride that they shall esteem their own ways as the best and fairest ways in all the world. Yea, even they shall say that their ways are the Peacemaker’s ways and unless a man follow their words and dismiss all others, he cannot be saved.

How have church leaders forgotten the Lords commandments? I could outline a whole list of doctrines.

I know it sounds harsh for a member of the church to be accused of pride, but the prevailing doctrines of the church are prideful. And that last sentence…. What a doosey. “When Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.” “He is the Lord’s mouthpiece.” Sometimes they have been historically, and sometimes they speak without any authority.
Pride. When I hear the phrase “ the prophet can’t lead you astray” my heart hurts from the weight of the pride. He’s human and every human makes mistakes so how can he not lead you astray? If it’s a straight “ follow the prophet “ it’s nothing but pride. However, if we add “ confirm whatever he says with the Holy Ghost”, there’s a bit of humility coming through.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 4th, 2023, 10:17 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 4th, 2023, 10:10 am this video also talks about how the record is false https://youtu.be/UJMSU8Qj6Go
SMH... really? That's all you're gonna do is share this video? You could cast doubt on any religion or belief by simply stating, "Look, everyone is deceived."

BTW, I stand by my statement of "intellectual integrity." And that isn't mocking you by making that claim. You need to actually reference a belief or scripture for comparison in order to make a claim that it's "false."
BTW I stand by my statement you need to grow up. You misunderstood and you mocked. I shared the video because it talks about the record itself, if you watched it you would have known that. Talk about not having intellectual integrity and forgetting to mention that it talks about the record.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2 wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:42 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 4th, 2023, 10:17 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 4th, 2023, 10:10 am this video also talks about how the record is false https://youtu.be/UJMSU8Qj6Go
SMH... really? That's all you're gonna do is share this video? You could cast doubt on any religion or belief by simply stating, "Look, everyone is deceived."

BTW, I stand by my statement of "intellectual integrity." And that isn't mocking you by making that claim. You need to actually reference a belief or scripture for comparison in order to make a claim that it's "false."
BTW I stand by my statement you need to grow up. You misunderstood and you mocked. I shared the video because it talks about the record itself, if you watched it you would have known that. Talk about not having intellectual integrity and forgetting to mention that it talks about the record.
I’ve watched the video many times over the last two years. I’ve even shared it. I know the record was mentioned in there. Along with almost every religion. What’s your point?

Btw, you have a strange definition of the word “mock.” I asked for intellectual integrity. You have yet, after all of this banter, shown a single shred of doctrinal evidence to support your claim. Someone does need to grow up.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Another verse from my morning study:

41) Behold all these things shall be in the mouths of men in latter days, but the Nemenhah shall have laid a foundation for all men. Such false Prophets and wicked rulers shall lay the account upon the people, but the fault thereof shall be their own. Yea, the Peacemaker shall cease to reveal anything unto their Prophets and generations shall pass in which He shall hold His peace and give no instruction through them. But behold, a time shall come when the people shall cast such rulers aside and turn again to their Peacemaker and seek His face. Behold, Nemenhah, the ensample that you make for them shall assist them and shall edify them.

It is about time that the disciples of Christ cast aside the false prophets and seek the face of Christ and receive instruction from Him. And no, this is not the same as #HearHim, and the duplicitous nature of LDS dogmas.

The principles outlined in this record expound many fold upon the core laws and principles taught in the temple. You know those things that we can’t talk about outside the temple… oh, and we can’t talk about them inside either.

I have plans to document and outline each of the laws and the basic societal structure of these people.

Here are the additional two verses that followed the above:
42) But even these shall not make serious conquest of the world. Yea, I say unto you, even they unto whom the Peacemaker shall have given the commencement of the restoration of all things shall not walk in sound principles and they shall lead the nation in false doctrine. But mothers and fathers shall teach their children in spite of all their shepherds shall demand. And here a few, and there a few, shall the Peacemaker build up again an Enduring Peace in the land, but not out of the ashes of a fallen church.

43) Behold, He shall take away the stewardship and the keys of His kingdom from among the foreign strangers. And when they are taken back, even according as He has promised unto your ancestors, they shall not be given back unto them that did pervert His ways. But He shall not withhold such things from the children of men, nay, not even for a season. For, in the very same generation in which He shall take up the stewardship over His Stewardship on earth from out of the foreign strangers, He shall also restore the Sons and Daughters of Layi and of Lehb. It is unto these that your teachings shall be an ensign. Yea, it is unto these that your musings shall be instructive.
What I’m getting from these three verses is a prophecy of the dark ages and fall of the original church/apostles, then the short rise of the Restoration, and an eventual falling away again. We are the “foreign strangers” (aka the Gentiles) noted in verse 43. 3 Nephi 16:10-11 clearly outlines a similar sequence of events.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 6th, 2023, 5:24 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:42 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 4th, 2023, 10:17 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 4th, 2023, 10:10 am this video also talks about how the record is false https://youtu.be/UJMSU8Qj6Go
SMH... really? That's all you're gonna do is share this video? You could cast doubt on any religion or belief by simply stating, "Look, everyone is deceived."

BTW, I stand by my statement of "intellectual integrity." And that isn't mocking you by making that claim. You need to actually reference a belief or scripture for comparison in order to make a claim that it's "false."
BTW I stand by my statement you need to grow up. You misunderstood and you mocked. I shared the video because it talks about the record itself, if you watched it you would have known that. Talk about not having intellectual integrity and forgetting to mention that it talks about the record.
I’ve watched the video many times over the last two years. I’ve even shared it. I know the record was mentioned in there. Along with almost every religion. What’s your point?

Btw, you have a strange definition of the word “mock.” I asked for intellectual integrity. You have yet, after all of this banter, shown a single shred of doctrinal evidence to support your claim. Someone does need to grow up.
You have not shown intellectual integrity. Do you deny the record talks about things regarding the sealed portion of the BoM? Instead of going off of statements I said you go of attributing things to me. I'm done responding.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2 wrote: January 8th, 2023, 10:21 am
You have not shown intellectual integrity. Do you deny the record talks about things regarding the sealed portion of the BoM? Instead of going off of statements I said you go of attributing things to me. I'm done responding.
Oh, really. If the record talks about the “sealed portion” then please enlighten me. If there were any references to them, they were footnotes at best, because they play little to no presence in the main theology and story line. So yes, I am being as intellectually honest as I can.

Yet, you still, to this day, can’t quote a single verse. This discussion does have me pondering how you approach any truth. You make a doctrinal claim, yet cannot cite a single comparative doctrine. As the oft spoken sports lingo goes: Put up, or shut up.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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DesertWonderer2 wrote: January 4th, 2023, 9:36 am Thoughts and impressions? Obviously a fake.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... Mormons%3F
During my study today I ran across the verse below and it reminded me of the declaration on the FAIR website stating that the only way we’d receive a record like this is from church leaders. Oh, the pride of the gentiles:

59) Yea, they shall read of your works in days far sundered from you. And some shall scorn them because they did not flow unto them from out of the mouths of their shepherds, whom they have justified. Behold, for no greater sin than to have come from out of the dust and to be delivered by one other than their own Prophets, many shall turn the heal from your words.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Another set of verses from my study tonight. This is an additional witness to me that Jospeh was a prophet, and that we have strayed from the gospel and doctrine that he was striving to teach the saints. I feel that these words should resonate w/ many of you on the forum given recent awakenings: (1st Edition, p.361)

45) The Peacemaker shall have brought the foreign strangers into this land and He shall have begun a great work among them, even a commencement of a great restoration. But they shall have rejected the greater portion of the fullness of the gospel which He shall have revealed unto them through His servant the Prophet.

46) And behold, almost immediately upon their foundation, they shall have set aside the Zion of the Peacemaker and taken up and embraced the Babylon of the world. Yea, they shall sin against the gospel and return altogether back unto all their golden calves and their idolatry. Yet shall they think they are the chosen and elect and they shall boast of it before all the nations. But their boasts shall be vanity.

47) For their shepherds shall cease to teach them that they should seek to stand personally in the presence of their Peacemaker while yet in the flesh. Yea, they shall entirely misconstrue the teachings of the Temple and they shall teach that the ordinances bring salvation.

Combine this with 3 Nephi 16:10-11

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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These three additional verses add much more context to our day. I haven’t updated the language so some of the words may be foreign to some of you. Haymenhay is the Holy Ghost.

As I’ve noted before on the forum, the LDS church will die on the hill of “keys and authority.” It will be their undoing.
48) Behold, it is not the ordinances of salvation that bring salvation, for that is the office of the Peacemaker through the Haymehnay. Rather, the ordinances of salvation are those ceremonies and celebrations that teach salvation. But the shepherds of the church shall teach that salvation comes by and only through the performance of ordinances and that the ordinances may only be performed by the shepherds of the church. Wherefore, they shall teach that they are the Ministers of Salvation and they shall wear that doctrine upon their sleeves.

49) But this is not all, they shall insist that the ordinances are locked up with keys and that only the shepherds possess or may possess the keys to their performance. And they shall lock up the minds and the hearts of the people as a storehouse and they shall put the keys thereof into their pockets. For the people, because of the teachings of the shepherds, shall universally believe that they have no access to heaven because of the keys. And they are as if locked in a cell and must depend upon the shepherds for ordinances to save them. Yea, the shepherds of the church shall make of themselves masters, and they shall esteem all men as servants unto them.

50) And this shall be extolled as great wisdom and sound doctrine. Yea, this shall the people call restoration and the fullness of all things. Yea, this shall they call the fullness of the gospel and it is the ensign that they shall raise up in the last days unto all the world.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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I had started reading the Records last year but the last six months of my life have been rather challenging and busy. This morning I started again and can't stop reading. I'll finish the records before reading any comments or watching videos so that I'm as unbiased as possible. I don't know what it is but there's "something" about the words that I'm reading, a spirit of truth.

Mike

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Continuing from my earlier quote, we are given more insights about the restoration, keys, authority, etc. All of this depends on how you perceive the transition between Joseph and any offshoot branch of the church, but the Brighamite branch certainly fits this description: (some language updated for readability)
72) And I say unto you, In the latter days, the Peacemaker shall begin again a restoration through the foreign strangers. And He shall choose the foreign strangers because of that quality of their character that causes them to take up and pursue a project with great vigor. Yea, He shall use this quality to send His word which He gave unto the Nephites into all the world. And behold, they shall do this thing and it shall be accomplished in them according to the word and will of the Peacemaker.

73) And He shall give them priesthood and His authority to do many things in His name. And the keys to this priesthood He shall devolve upon them. But they shall consider this the keys to the very kingdom of the Elohim and they shall teach that without these keys no door may be unlocked and no shackle may be loosed. And in but one generation from the commencement of that great restoration, they shall have corrupted the word of the Peacemaker and His will, and shall bind all men with that measure of priesthood they have been given. Yea, they shall make the performance of ordinances that which does assure salvation and they shall devolve their performances upon they who possess the priesthood.

74) Behold, this shall cause a great bondage to come upon the people and, when the time comes for them to receive greater truth and knowledge from the Peacemaker, there shall be few who can walk upon the Way. Yea, when He desires a revelation to be given, behold, He shall be required to resort to intervention in order that His work might go forward. This is not much better than the state of things before the restoration that He shall make unto the foreign strangers.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 9th, 2023, 5:06 pm Another set of verses from my study tonight. This is an additional witness to me that Jospeh was a prophet, and that we have strayed from the gospel and doctrine that he was striving to teach the saints. I feel that these words should resonate w/ many of you on the forum given recent awakenings: (1st Edition, p.361)

45) The Peacemaker shall have brought the foreign strangers into this land and He shall have begun a great work among them, even a commencement of a great restoration. But they shall have rejected the greater portion of the fullness of the gospel which He shall have revealed unto them through His servant the Prophet.

46) And behold, almost immediately upon their foundation, they shall have set aside the Zion of the Peacemaker and taken up and embraced the Babylon of the world. Yea, they shall sin against the gospel and return altogether back unto all their golden calves and their idolatry. Yet shall they think they are the chosen and elect and they shall boast of it before all the nations. But their boasts shall be vanity.

47) For their shepherds shall cease to teach them that they should seek to stand personally in the presence of their Peacemaker while yet in the flesh. Yea, they shall entirely misconstrue the teachings of the Temple and they shall teach that the ordinances bring salvation.

Combine this with 3 Nephi 16:10-11

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
The prophecied apostasy of the latter day church is abundantly clear in the scriptures for all to see. In fact, it is quite a feat to stand in denial of it, and requires some very serious and deliberate self blinding.

But, but, but, Brigham said....🙄

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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blitzinstripes wrote: January 12th, 2023, 6:31 am The prophecied apostasy of the latter day church is abundantly clear in the scriptures for all to see. In fact, it is quite a feat to stand in denial of it, and requires some very serious and deliberate self blinding.

But, but, but, Brigham said....🙄
Or some very serious conditioning from the time children are born and a “sustain” hierarchy that casts out anyone who publicly voices a concern. You can’t even question the church president without being called to repentance these day. At least that has been my experience.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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I'll read all your comments when I've finished or read enough of the book to form an opinion. The description of the Ammonite marriage (pages 47 on) is rather beautiful and seems to reveal much about Zion and the Kingdom of God. I was rather touched.

If you're interested, here's the link: https://abookofdreams.com/wp-content/up ... in-One.pdf

Mike

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 12th, 2023, 6:12 am He shall be required to resort to intervention in order that His work might go forward.
This is a reference to Joseph's never talked about statement that something new must be done for the salvation of the church. This was when the fulness was taken in 1834 and the Lord directed the church to call the 12. Now that the gentiles had rejected the fulness of the gospel, the 12 were supposed to take the gospel to the House of Israel. The huge influx of British converts is the something new/the intervention that allowed the church after it was rejected with its dead to still fulfill the divine commission to take the BoM to all the world in preparation for when the work starts again at the end of the day of the gentile when they will be offered the fulness one last time.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 12th, 2023, 11:54 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 12th, 2023, 6:12 am He shall be required to resort to intervention in order that His work might go forward.
This is a reference to Joseph's never talked about statement that something new must be done for the salvation of the church. This was when the fulness was taken in 1834 and the Lord directed the church to call the 12. Now that the gentiles had rejected the fulness of the gospel, the 12 were supposed to take the gospel to the House of Israel. The huge influx of British converts is the something new/the intervention that allowed the church after it was rejected with its dead to still fulfill the divine commission to take the BoM to all the world in preparation for when the work starts again at the end of the day of the gentile when they will be offered the fulness one last time.
While that is an interesting theory, I believe it has to do with the transfer of gospel teachings to the House of Israel, and in particular, this record coming forth. You have to take this quote in the greater context of not only the verses I quoted, but the entire chapter/discourse in the record.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 12th, 2023, 12:15 pm While that is an interesting theory, I believe it has to do with the transfer of gospel teachings to the House of Israel, and in particular, this record coming forth. You have to take this quote in the greater context of not only the verses I quoted, but the entire chapter/discourse in the record.
How could the Nemenhah Record be the intervention when it hasn't done anything and is on course to continue doing nothing? The transfer of gospel teachings from the gentiles to the House of Israel is obviously when the House of Israel received the BoM, the D&C, and all that the gentiles had and were then given the opportunity to redeem Zion just as the gentiles were given the opportunity.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 12th, 2023, 12:34 pm How could the Nemenhah Record be the intervention when it hasn't done anything and is on course to continue doing nothing? The transfer of gospel teachings from the gentiles to the House of Israel is obviously when the House of Israel received the BoM, the D&C, and all that the gentiles had and were then given the opportunity to redeem Zion just as the gentiles were given the opportunity.
I disagree. That's all I'll say about that. If you read the record, you'll see the prophecies about who are the "House of Israel." I think we're just getting started. 5-6 generations of slumber were all we needed.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 12th, 2023, 12:46 pm you'll see the prophecies about who are the "House of Israel."
Who are they?

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 12th, 2023, 12:52 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 12th, 2023, 12:46 pm you'll see the prophecies about who are the "House of Israel."
Who are they?
Odd that you didn't include the first part of that sentence...

Maybe I'll dig through it and find the various references.

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