The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I’m continuing the discourse I was noting previously. I believe this is one of the main reasons why I have such a difficult time with how the church wields their authority and abuses the word “sustain.” The priesthood was/is meant as a means of service to God’s children, but has been cloaked in “keys” and “authority” in truly unrighteous ways. The church is building up “fine sanctuaries” and pronouncing their righteousness from the hilltops, yet famine is in their own country, even their own city.
76) And behold, the shepherds of the church, yea, the High Priest and the Priests, the Elders even down to the least of their Teachers, shall in one voice declare and agree that none shall come unto salvation except by and through them, for the Peacemaker shall have chosen them over all the earth and they shall esteem themselves the Elect of the Peacemaker because of that little priesthood which the Peacemaker shall have given them as an helpmete and as a schooling ground.

77) And where is there greater pride than this, that man shall extol his own virtue and call himself elect in all the world? Yet, in the day whereof I speak, there shall be hunger in their country. And behold, there shall be they among them who suffer with the cold and are destitute. And they shall judge them and give unto them a little, but in the main, they shall look upon the suffering of the people and esteem themselves the more blessed because of their riches. And they shall declare in their hearts that the poor are not as blessed because of sin. Behold, this is the pride of they who shall call themselves Saints in the latter days.

78) And behold, they shall claim to have charity, but it shall be by extortion. And they shall claim to have the love of the Peacemaker, but it shall be meted out sparingly and upon conditions. It shall not be freely given, but shall be doled out by practice and by policy that does grind the face of the poor and bring about a division between them and the rich. They shall have not all things in common and all things shall be dictated unto them. Yea, they shall know nothing of the Common Consent. And this shall they call righteousness. Yea, because of this they shall call themselves the very Elect of the Peacemaker.
Verse 78 is incredibly accurate if you’ve ever had much experience with how Bishops operate within a ward.

I pray to the heavens that we will yearn to become a consecrated society. But I fear it cannot and will not happen within the structure of the LDS church. The Lord will have new bottles for new wine.

PS, don’t worry, there are many wonderful parts of this record that I’ll get to that don’t focus on the sins and pride of our generation. :) But make no mistake, they touch on nearly every facet of the LDS religious experience.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records— Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

As I continued reading, I couldn’t help but think of Rob Fotheringham’s video where he explores/exposes the “Self Reliance” program of the church. The church intentionally leaves out the verses of scripture that invites the rich to give to the poor, but tells the poor saints to work hard (“bend their backs”) and pull themselves out of poverty so they too can become like the wealthy. Here’s the verse I was reading and the video from Rob:
“And the shepherds shall exercise dominion over the poor and their lives shall they dictate, exhorting them to bend their backs so that they too might rise up in stature and in wealth, that they might walk among the elect. Is this the Law of the Tithe? Is this the Law of Consecration? You and I may decry such practices, but behold, they who call themselves elect in the latter days shall believe it to be so.”
Rob’s comparison to the self reliance program begins at about the 16 minute mark:

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FrankOne
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 6:25 am I’m continuing the discourse I was noting previously. I believe this is one of the main reasons why I have such a difficult time with how the church wields their authority and abuses the word “sustain.” The priesthood was/is meant as a means of service to God’s children, but has been cloaked in “keys” and “authority” in truly unrighteous ways. The church is building up “fine sanctuaries” and pronouncing their righteousness from the hilltops, yet famine is in their own country, even their own city.
76) And behold, the shepherds of the church, yea, the High Priest and the Priests, the Elders even down to the least of their Teachers, shall in one voice declare and agree that none shall come unto salvation except by and through them, for the Peacemaker shall have chosen them over all the earth and they shall esteem themselves the Elect of the Peacemaker because of that little priesthood which the Peacemaker shall have given them as an helpmete and as a schooling ground.

77) And where is there greater pride than this, that man shall extol his own virtue and call himself elect in all the world? Yet, in the day whereof I speak, there shall be hunger in their country. And behold, there shall be they among them who suffer with the cold and are destitute. And they shall judge them and give unto them a little, but in the main, they shall look upon the suffering of the people and esteem themselves the more blessed because of their riches. And they shall declare in their hearts that the poor are not as blessed because of sin. Behold, this is the pride of they who shall call themselves Saints in the latter days.

78) And behold, they shall claim to have charity, but it shall be by extortion. And they shall claim to have the love of the Peacemaker, but it shall be meted out sparingly and upon conditions. It shall not be freely given, but shall be doled out by practice and by policy that does grind the face of the poor and bring about a division between them and the rich. They shall have not all things in common and all things shall be dictated unto them. Yea, they shall know nothing of the Common Consent. And this shall they call righteousness. Yea, because of this they shall call themselves the very Elect of the Peacemaker.
Verse 78 is incredibly accurate if you’ve ever had much experience with how Bishops operate within a ward.

I pray to the heavens that we will yearn to become a consecrated society. But I fear it cannot and will not happen within the structure of the LDS church. The Lord will have new bottles for new wine.

PS, don’t worry, there are many wonderful parts of this record that I’ll get to that don’t focus on the sins and pride of our generation. :) But make no mistake, they touch on nearly every facet of the LDS religious experience.
much thanks for posting those verses.

as i said at the beginning of this thread, when i first came across this years ago, i found that there were key points in it that struck me deeply as 'the truth'.

Reading this now is just another coincidence in my life which appear to be almost daily now for me. I'm not sure if others are experiencing this or if it's just something i'm going through.

Reading all of the verses carefully, I do not believe that the majority of the world would find the same reading as I do. I was just discussing this subject with a friend on the phone this morning as well as with another friend last night. It keeps coming up for me.

I am dismayed at how few men have any inkling of what unity means. Everyone is polarized into their own 'mancamp'. The more worldly successful a man is, the less he is inclined to understand anything except his business life. There seems to be very little interest in what is important in life. 99% of the population measures success by monetary gain and holdings. I evaluate men by observing their children and wife. <- these are the measuring sticks of a leader.

It's disheartening to find so few that understand that the responsibility of the mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health of the family resides squarely on the man. For the most part, men today blame the influences of society for their children's messed up lives and their wife's demeanor. They look at themselves in the mirror and count the dollars that they have accumulated smiling fakely as if their life has meaning. Empty.

this relates to the above scriptures because it is the same subject. Leadership has failed across the board.

only abject horror and trauma will change this scenario. Unimaginable pain. Reading the prophecies in the book of Revelation, Ezekial, and Isaiah , it all makes sense. Men and Women will be broken because it is the only remedy.

take their money away and their lives will be nothing. nothing left. I've had lots of money at times, and little at times and it took me many decades to understand that the money didn't make me or my family any happier. Having enough is enough. My father was considered wealthy yet he never forgot his roots. He would say to me:

"when I was a kid, you were considered rich if you were warm when it was cold, cool when it was hot, had all the food you could eat, had a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of" . It took me 50 yrs to understand that's all we need to be completely happy.

If you have more than the above, share. Work with others as if they were brothers in Christ, because they are.

The way of consecration is hated by most men. Why? "I've got my marbles, you have yours, you keep yours in your pile and I'll keep mine away from you". Silly Kids on a playground. This world is buried in pride and selfishness and the Q15 are perfect examples of this. They talk a convincing talk, but they are smooth faced hypocrites.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Cruiserdude »

FrankOne wrote: January 13th, 2023, 12:31 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 6:25 am I’m continuing the discourse I was noting previously. I believe this is one of the main reasons why I have such a difficult time with how the church wields their authority and abuses the word “sustain.” The priesthood was/is meant as a means of service to God’s children, but has been cloaked in “keys” and “authority” in truly unrighteous ways. The church is building up “fine sanctuaries” and pronouncing their righteousness from the hilltops, yet famine is in their own country, even their own city.
76) And behold, the shepherds of the church, yea, the High Priest and the Priests, the Elders even down to the least of their Teachers, shall in one voice declare and agree that none shall come unto salvation except by and through them, for the Peacemaker shall have chosen them over all the earth and they shall esteem themselves the Elect of the Peacemaker because of that little priesthood which the Peacemaker shall have given them as an helpmete and as a schooling ground.

77) And where is there greater pride than this, that man shall extol his own virtue and call himself elect in all the world? Yet, in the day whereof I speak, there shall be hunger in their country. And behold, there shall be they among them who suffer with the cold and are destitute. And they shall judge them and give unto them a little, but in the main, they shall look upon the suffering of the people and esteem themselves the more blessed because of their riches. And they shall declare in their hearts that the poor are not as blessed because of sin. Behold, this is the pride of they who shall call themselves Saints in the latter days.

78) And behold, they shall claim to have charity, but it shall be by extortion. And they shall claim to have the love of the Peacemaker, but it shall be meted out sparingly and upon conditions. It shall not be freely given, but shall be doled out by practice and by policy that does grind the face of the poor and bring about a division between them and the rich. They shall have not all things in common and all things shall be dictated unto them. Yea, they shall know nothing of the Common Consent. And this shall they call righteousness. Yea, because of this they shall call themselves the very Elect of the Peacemaker.
Verse 78 is incredibly accurate if you’ve ever had much experience with how Bishops operate within a ward.

I pray to the heavens that we will yearn to become a consecrated society. But I fear it cannot and will not happen within the structure of the LDS church. The Lord will have new bottles for new wine.

PS, don’t worry, there are many wonderful parts of this record that I’ll get to that don’t focus on the sins and pride of our generation. :) But make no mistake, they touch on nearly every facet of the LDS religious experience.
much thanks for posting those verses.

as i said at the beginning of this thread, when i first came across this years ago, i found that there were key points in it that struck me deeply as 'the truth'.

Reading this now is just another coincidence in my life which appear to be almost daily now for me. I'm not sure if others are experiencing this or if it's just something i'm going through.

Reading all of the verses carefully, I do not believe that the majority of the world would find the same reading as I do. I was just discussing this subject with a friend on the phone this morning as well as with another friend last night. It keeps coming up for me.

I am dismayed at how few men have any inkling of what unity means. Everyone is polarized into their own 'mancamp'. The more worldly successful a man is, the less he is inclined to understand anything except his business life. There seems to be very little interest in what is important in life. 99% of the population measures success by monetary gain and holdings. I evaluate men by observing their children and wife. <- these are the measuring sticks of a leader.

It's disheartening to find so few that understand that the responsibility of the mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health of the family resides squarely on the man. For the most part, men today blame the influences of society for their children's messed up lives and their wife's demeanor. They look at themselves in the mirror and count the dollars that they have accumulated smiling fakely as if their life has meaning. Empty.

this relates to the above scriptures because it is the same subject. Leadership has failed across the board.

only abject horror and trauma will change this scenario. Unimaginable pain. Reading the prophecies in the book of Revelation, Ezekial, and Isaiah , it all makes sense. Men and Women will be broken because it is the only remedy.

take their money away and their lives will be nothing. nothing left. I've had lots of money at times, and little at times and it took me many decades to understand that the money didn't make me or my family any happier. Having enough is enough. My father was considered wealthy yet he never forgot his roots. He would say to me:

"when I was a kid, you were considered rich if you were warm when it was cold, cool when it was hot, had all the food you could eat, had a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of" . It took me 50 yrs to understand that's all we need to be completely happy.

If you have more than the above, share. Work with others as if they were brothers in Christ, because they are.

The way of consecration is hated by most men. Why? "I've got my marbles, you have yours, you keep yours in your pile and I'll keep mine away from you". Silly Kids on a playground. This world is buried in pride and selfishness and the Q15 are perfect examples of this. They talk a convincing talk, but they are smooth faced hypocrites.
From reading your posts here on the forum about all of these various spiritual subjects, I am POSITIVE that you and I are kindred spirits. 👍

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FrankOne
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by FrankOne »

Cruiserdude wrote: January 13th, 2023, 12:51 pm
FrankOne wrote: January 13th, 2023, 12:31 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 6:25 am I’m continuing the discourse I was noting previously. I believe this is one of the main reasons why I have such a difficult time with how the church wields their authority and abuses the word “sustain.” The priesthood was/is meant as a means of service to God’s children, but has been cloaked in “keys” and “authority” in truly unrighteous ways. The church is building up “fine sanctuaries” and pronouncing their righteousness from the hilltops, yet famine is in their own country, even their own city.
76) And behold, the shepherds of the church, yea, the High Priest and the Priests, the Elders even down to the least of their Teachers, shall in one voice declare and agree that none shall come unto salvation except by and through them, for the Peacemaker shall have chosen them over all the earth and they shall esteem themselves the Elect of the Peacemaker because of that little priesthood which the Peacemaker shall have given them as an helpmete and as a schooling ground.

77) And where is there greater pride than this, that man shall extol his own virtue and call himself elect in all the world? Yet, in the day whereof I speak, there shall be hunger in their country. And behold, there shall be they among them who suffer with the cold and are destitute. And they shall judge them and give unto them a little, but in the main, they shall look upon the suffering of the people and esteem themselves the more blessed because of their riches. And they shall declare in their hearts that the poor are not as blessed because of sin. Behold, this is the pride of they who shall call themselves Saints in the latter days.

78) And behold, they shall claim to have charity, but it shall be by extortion. And they shall claim to have the love of the Peacemaker, but it shall be meted out sparingly and upon conditions. It shall not be freely given, but shall be doled out by practice and by policy that does grind the face of the poor and bring about a division between them and the rich. They shall have not all things in common and all things shall be dictated unto them. Yea, they shall know nothing of the Common Consent. And this shall they call righteousness. Yea, because of this they shall call themselves the very Elect of the Peacemaker.
Verse 78 is incredibly accurate if you’ve ever had much experience with how Bishops operate within a ward.

I pray to the heavens that we will yearn to become a consecrated society. But I fear it cannot and will not happen within the structure of the LDS church. The Lord will have new bottles for new wine.

PS, don’t worry, there are many wonderful parts of this record that I’ll get to that don’t focus on the sins and pride of our generation. :) But make no mistake, they touch on nearly every facet of the LDS religious experience.
much thanks for posting those verses.

as i said at the beginning of this thread, when i first came across this years ago, i found that there were key points in it that struck me deeply as 'the truth'.

Reading this now is just another coincidence in my life which appear to be almost daily now for me. I'm not sure if others are experiencing this or if it's just something i'm going through.

Reading all of the verses carefully, I do not believe that the majority of the world would find the same reading as I do. I was just discussing this subject with a friend on the phone this morning as well as with another friend last night. It keeps coming up for me.

I am dismayed at how few men have any inkling of what unity means. Everyone is polarized into their own 'mancamp'. The more worldly successful a man is, the less he is inclined to understand anything except his business life. There seems to be very little interest in what is important in life. 99% of the population measures success by monetary gain and holdings. I evaluate men by observing their children and wife. <- these are the measuring sticks of a leader.

It's disheartening to find so few that understand that the responsibility of the mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health of the family resides squarely on the man. For the most part, men today blame the influences of society for their children's messed up lives and their wife's demeanor. They look at themselves in the mirror and count the dollars that they have accumulated smiling fakely as if their life has meaning. Empty.

this relates to the above scriptures because it is the same subject. Leadership has failed across the board.

only abject horror and trauma will change this scenario. Unimaginable pain. Reading the prophecies in the book of Revelation, Ezekial, and Isaiah , it all makes sense. Men and Women will be broken because it is the only remedy.

take their money away and their lives will be nothing. nothing left. I've had lots of money at times, and little at times and it took me many decades to understand that the money didn't make me or my family any happier. Having enough is enough. My father was considered wealthy yet he never forgot his roots. He would say to me:

"when I was a kid, you were considered rich if you were warm when it was cold, cool when it was hot, had all the food you could eat, had a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of" . It took me 50 yrs to understand that's all we need to be completely happy.

If you have more than the above, share. Work with others as if they were brothers in Christ, because they are.

The way of consecration is hated by most men. Why? "I've got my marbles, you have yours, you keep yours in your pile and I'll keep mine away from you". Silly Kids on a playground. This world is buried in pride and selfishness and the Q15 are perfect examples of this. They talk a convincing talk, but they are smooth faced hypocrites.
From reading your posts here on the forum about all of these various spiritual subjects, I am POSITIVE that you and I are kindred spirits. 👍
your words are rare. it appears that we are both strangers in a strange land.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 12th, 2023, 12:52 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 12th, 2023, 12:46 pm you'll see the prophecies about who are the "House of Israel."
Who are they?
It just so happened that I ran across this as I was studying more this evening. The verses are a bit long, and there’s more to this answer than what is in this section of the record, but it gives a pretty good outline. In essence, many of these are the remnant of the house of Lehi, or the Native Americans. Although there blood has mixed among all nations. I have a great aunt that I swear is Native American. Her genealogy record doesn’t look like it, but she’s the spitting image of a native woman. The verses below explain that anyone who follows a certain path of discipleship will be part of the House of Israel:
For the Peacemaker does have all things before Him. Yea, He does see the beginning from the end and there is nothing that escapes His view. Wherefore He did promise they who were of the seed of Lehi who were left in the land, even the remnant of them at that time, that He would take up again that which He had given into the hands of the foreign strangers as a stewardship and return it unto the Children of Lehi, a Remnant unto the House of Israel.

82) Behold, these are they who among your descendants shall take up the standard of the Peacemaker and raise up a Zion once again in the land. These are they who, reading your writings and also being touched by the spirit of this land, shall esteem the earth once again and teach the stewardship. They shall not lift up their faces unto the heavens and declare themselves to be the elect of the Peacemaker, but the Peacemaker shall elect them. Yea, they shall take up the things they shall read in these records and apply them unto their own lives. They shall judge the widow and visit the fatherless, and they shall do it without extortion and without motive.

83) And they shall not look upon their fellowman and judge him because of his color, or his manner of speaking, his beliefs, nor his lack of riches. No, there shall be no division among them, except that they shall not allow that men should cast themselves higher than their neighbor and they shall not suffer them to do any kind of hurt one to another.

84) And they shall be the Sons and Daughters of Levi and shall offer again a sacrifice in righteousness. And their Priesthood shall be the commission of the Peacemaker, given personally. Wherefore, the orders of the Priesthood which they shall possess shall be esteemed of them as schoolmasters only, and a means whereby they may do great good unto the children of men. But they shall not esteem themselves wiser, greater, or any more elect than their neighbor because of the Priesthood. And the Peacemaker shall bring them upon the Way and instruct them.

85) And the people shall come unto Christ with all the intent of their hearts and they shall rejoice with Him upon the Way. And they shall live from revelation to revelation because they have not shunned prophecy and the Gifts of the Spirit.

86) And behold, the ordinances of salvation shall once again become the ensigns that they ought to be, and they who perform them shall have truly received the commission of the Peacemaker. Wherefore, it shall be unto them as the Peacemaker designed, for that which qualifies one to receive the Priesthood is the desire to do the will of the Peacemaker. And behold, the Priesthood shall not become a dividing line between they who have and they who have not, and the people shall not puff themselves up because they have received authority, or so they suppose. But Heavenly Beings shall justify them in their works because of the intents of their hearts, because they are good.

87) And thus shall the Peacemaker commence again a great restoration in this holy land and it shall go forward even unto the culmination thereof. And the Peacemaker shall fulfill His promise that He made unto the Children of Lehi in times past, that they shall have this land as an inheritance again and the stewardship of His kingdom.

88) And all this shall be restored unto the House of Israel because they take up His ways again and teach them unto their little ones. Yea, and their concentration shall turn away from the world and they shall delight in the Peacemaker. For they shall walk with Him and talk with Him, and what worldly wealth can compare to this? What goods may they stuff into their storehouses and what gold and silver may they lay up in store that may buy the love of the Peacemaker?

89) Yea, they shall build and establish Zion again because they shall not set aside that which the Peacemaker has commanded them and they shall not misinterpret that which He commanded their fathers. For they shall have the Second Comforter and the First, and is this to be despised? I say unto you, Nay. It is the best of the blessings and gifts of Heaven.
I’ve been reading this over and over. What he is saying is quite profound.

FYI, I updated all of the proper nouns from the original translation.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 7:11 pm And their Priesthood shall be the commission of the Peacemaker, given personally.
That's definitely interesting, Christ personally gives them their priesthood.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:04 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 7:11 pm And their Priesthood shall be the commission of the Peacemaker, given personally.
That's definitely interesting, Christ personally gives them their priesthood.
The entire purpose of their temple experience was for them to receive the Second Comforter. They taught their children from the time they were young all of the ordinances of the temple and how to go upon The Way.

It also notes in this record that this method (personally given by Christ) is how Alma was commissioned to do his work after he fled the courts of King Noah.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:10 pm ordinances of the temple
So, here is where we have a deviation from the Book of Mormon and an embracing of the Nauvoo secret works of darkness?

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:10 pm ordinances of the temple
So, here is where we have a deviation from the Book of Mormon and an embracing of the Nauvoo secret works of darkness?
You can read the ordinances for yourself to decide whether the ordinances are correct or not. It was a blueprint for how Zion was established among these people. Oh, and while parts of it resemble the LDS endowment, there is so much more. All of the things that bother me in the LDS endowment are not in the Nemenhah ordinances. Joseph had full intentions of teaching an endowment to the people. Problem is Brigham hijacked it.

I believe that’s one of the biggest fallacies of defunct members of the church is that they throw out the endowment entirely. It has taken me a long time to decipher truth from error in the endowment.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:29 pm I believe that’s one of the biggest fallacies of defunct members of the church is that they throw out the endowment entirely. It has taken me a long time to decipher truth from error in the endowment.
There's truth in Mein Kampf or Nietzsche's writings, but I'd still throw them in the trash. The poison isn't quite worth the risk. It's not as easy as scraping mold off of cheese, it's more like worms all throughout your hamburger.

The entire endowment came forth in secrecy and the Lord was quite clear that he does not work in secrecy. If a new endowment comes forth in the light when Joseph returns, fine, but as for now, I will stick with what has come forth in the light, which is the Kirtland endowment. :D

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:45 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:29 pm I believe that’s one of the biggest fallacies of defunct members of the church is that they throw out the endowment entirely. It has taken me a long time to decipher truth from error in the endowment.
There's truth in Mein Kampf or Nietzsche's writings, but I'd still throw them in the trash. The poison isn't quite worth the risk. It's not as easy as scraping mold off of cheese, it's more like worms all throughout your hamburger.

The entire endowment came forth in secrecy and the Lord was quite clear that he does not work in secrecy. If a new endowment comes forth in the light when Joseph returns, fine, but as for now, I will stick with what has come forth in the light, which is the Kirtland endowment. :D
If you don’t want to make the comparison, then don’t. From what I gather you haven’t read it. But I’m not going to argue murky church history with you.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:47 pm But I’m not going to argue
I'm not trying to argue either, just trying to be understood, just as I'm sure you are wanting to be understood.

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M249Gunner
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by M249Gunner »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 5th, 2023, 3:55 am
M249Gunner wrote: January 1st, 2023, 1:35 pm :D
Hey M249Gunner. Ever half-cock your M249 just so you can put it on safe with a round still chambered?
It has been so long ago, honestly I don’t remember. Probably not. I think I always fired from the open bolt. Your method seems pretty smart though.

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Luke
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:29 pm All of the things that bother me in the LDS endowment are not in the Nemenhah ordinances.
In other words, the fella who wrote the Nemenhah Record also didn’t like the parts of the endowment you don’t like (too controversial).

Sorry, if you don’t want a controversial religion, then Mormonism is not for you.

Also, I find it hilariously strange how people just throw Brigham’s name around when there’s something they don’t like. Don’t like something? Claim Brigham invented it behind Joseph’s back. Only one problem though: we want to see the evidence. Put up or shut up, imo.

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tmac
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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With any so-called “ancient record” that uses words and phrases like “policy” and “sexual relations” (just to name a couple), either the “record” itself, or the translation, is highly suspect.

There is very little, if any, scriptural support for much of the language in the endowment — which has been changed substantially over time. But when this “record” more closely aligns with the most modern iterations, it’s hard not to smell a rat in the equation.

Although it may contain some truth, literally anybody can do that. But without any provenance it really is very hard to figure out what actual legs it has to stand on. Otherwise, it could literally be religious fantasy fiction, and that’s more how it strikes me.
Last edited by tmac on January 16th, 2023, 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Luke wrote: January 15th, 2023, 5:29 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:29 pm All of the things that bother me in the LDS endowment are not in the Nemenhah ordinances.
In other words, the fella who wrote the Nemenhah Record also didn’t like the parts of the endowment you don’t like (too controversial).

Sorry, if you don’t want a controversial religion, then Mormonism is not for you.

Also, I find it hilariously strange how people just throw Brigham’s name around when there’s something they don’t like. Don’t like something? Claim Brigham invented it behind Joseph’s back. Only one problem though: we want to see the evidence. Put up or shut up, imo.
Try reading it first. Oh, wait, they don’t preach your flavor of polygamy.

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Luke
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 15th, 2023, 9:34 pm Try reading it first. Oh, wait, they don’t preach your flavor of polygamy.
Which automatically rules it out for me thank you very much. I won’t be going back on what God revealed to me.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Luke wrote: January 16th, 2023, 4:40 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 15th, 2023, 9:34 pm Try reading it first. Oh, wait, they don’t preach your flavor of polygamy.
Which automatically rules it out for me thank you very much. I won’t be going back on what God revealed to me.
Whatever floats your boat mate.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

tmac wrote: January 15th, 2023, 6:52 pm With any so-called “ancient record” that uses words and phrases like “policy” and “sexual relations” (just to name a couple), either the “record” itself, or the translation, is highly suspect.

There is very little, if any, scriptural support for much of the language in the endowment — which has been changed substantially over time. But when this “record” more closely aligns with the most modern iterations, it’s hard not to smell a rat in the equation.

Although it may contain some truth, literally anybody can do that. But without any provenance it really is very hard to figure out what actual legs it has to stand on. Otherwise, it could literally be religious fantasy fiction, and that’s more how it strikes me.
Have we have learned so little from the BoM?

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.

Even the BoM should be read independent of Joseph. In fact, just as this record teaches, never trust any writing or speaking of any man or woman unless the HG offers a witness to their words.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by tmac »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 16th, 2023, 6:37 am
tmac wrote: January 15th, 2023, 6:52 pm With any so-called “ancient record” that uses words and phrases like “policy” and “sexual relations” (just to name a couple), either the “record” itself, or the translation, is highly suspect.

There is very little, if any, scriptural support for much of the language in the endowment — which has been changed substantially over time. But when this “record” more closely aligns with the most modern iterations, it’s hard not to smell a rat in the equation.

Although it may contain some truth, literally anybody can do that. But without any provenance it really is very hard to figure out what actual legs it has to stand on. Otherwise, it could literally be religious fantasy fiction, and that’s more how it strikes me.
Have we have learned so little from the BoM?

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.

Even the BoM should be read independent of Joseph. In fact, just as this record teaches, never trust any writing or speaking of any man or woman unless the HG offers a witness to their words.
So, it sounds like you must have received a spiritual witness — that it is the word of God?

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

tmac wrote: January 17th, 2023, 7:14 am So, it sounds like you must have received a spiritual witness — that it is the word of God?
I never ask if "it" is the word of God. Just like I don't ask if the BoM is true. Is the overall premise "true", that it is a record of a people who lived and struggled? Yes, I believe so. From there we study individual doctrines and ask if each is true.

In this record, I also study the precepts and doctrines. I believe the general narrative to be accurate. And yes, there are heavenly precepts taught, even providing a blueprint for a Zion-like society.

Just as the Bible is a supporting witness to the Book of Mormon, the Nemenhah Records add even more clarity to all of these records.

I am often taken aback that people love to inject their opinion about a subject that they know so little about. I'd feel a tad bit disingenuous if I commented about a book that I'd never read.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Maybe. Could just as easily be religious fantasy fiction. That can contain truth and heavenly precepts too. Lots and lots of books do. Too many to read in the rest of my lifetime. But what I am always seeking is the word of God. So, that becomes one of the measuring sticks — comparison to the recognized word of God for conflicts, etc. And, it looks like there might be some. Like Luke says, according to the recognized word of God, the Fathers of the ancient House of Israel practiced plural marriage. So, according to the recognized and accepted word of God, plural marriage is fully acceptable when it is ordained of God, and not abused. I have to agree with Luke, that is a useful measuring stick.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

tmac wrote: January 17th, 2023, 7:28 am So, according to the recognized and accepted word of God, plural marriage is fully acceptable when it is ordained of God
Or not.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

tmac wrote: January 17th, 2023, 7:28 am Maybe. Could just as easily be religious fantasy fiction. That can contain truth and heavenly precepts too. Lots and lots of books do. Too many to read in the rest of my lifetime. But what I am always seeking is the word of God. So, that becomes one of the measuring sticks — comparison to the recognized word of God for conflicts, etc. And, it looks like there might be some. Like Luke says, according to the recognized word of God, the Fathers of the ancient House of Israel practiced plural marriage. So, according to the recognized and accepted word of God, plural marriage is fully acceptable when it is ordained of God, and not abused. I have to agree with Luke, that is a useful measuring stick.
Yes, it could be “fantasy fiction” as you said. This book claims to contain “the word of God.” If you don’t want to read it, then don’t. I would put this book up against any existing scripture btw. An for sure, you are going to find that there are ideas presented here that are not found in other canon of scripture, or at least they aren’t mentioned, mostly likely due to the creative writing of early Bible scholars. We know that puppy has been tampered with.

This record also talks about how the Lord did command very specific dispensational heads to take more than one wife. But, it also repeats the doctrine taught in Jacob 2. So yeah, no conflict. Polygamy has never been taught as a precept to be lived by a general body of worshippers, and never presented as an exalting doctrine like Brigham did in 132. Utah polygamy actually hamper the spread of “seed” by grouping more women to old men. The census records show that there were more women than men living in Utah, so best way for the Lord to “raise of seed” was not to live polygamy. (I don’t care at all to turn this into a polygamy thread btw.)

As a side note, I do disagree with the chiastic view of Jacob 2, stating that polygamy was never sanctioned by the Lord and that he was referring only to separating out a righteous branch of people, but that’s me.

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