And Both scriptures teach that, but we know from both the Book of Mormon and the Bible that a broken heart and contrite Spirit is submitting to God and accepting His forgiveness. "All we can do" is repeatedly stated through out the Book of Mormon as "accept the forgiveness God offers" Same message in teh New Testament. In the New Testament is is explained as not doing things in order to obtain salvation. You believe, then you do, you don't do, to believe. otherwise it is a dead work, just like James states faith without action is dead, becuase faith is about trusting in the word of God and God Himself.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 11:19 amOk, given the assumptions you are making, I'll leave this discussion.John Tavner wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 11:08 am WHen I say "mormon" I mean those with LDS Upbringing and/or traditions- I don't care if you attend church or not or your records are in the church. That poisoning leads to a lot of false premises - which can destroy faith long-term. It's why so many LDS become atheistic or agnostic - including family members I have. Until those premises are removed it causes a lot of faith and trust issues with God.
I have studied James and the BoM. Again tradition you are spouting off without understanding the full context because you use James (a mission tactic) along with 2 Nephi "after all you can do" ignoring the rest of hte BoM and the Bible. Perhaps a study of the Bible would help you understand how much is already clear. I see it all the time how poeple make comparisons. Most of the time it just shows me they haven't studied the Bible and are searching for Key words rather than the message.
Yes that is the exact culture pollution I'm talking about, I'm glad we can agree that there is pollution. I suppose we disagree on what that pollution is.
A heart that is broken and contrite, truly converted to Jesus, will follow His gospel. That requires action. His gospel is contained in many canons of scripture.
Faith is not doing something in order to earn something. Faith is believing something and so you accept it and then act. This nuance is intended and important. People are saved by their faith, not their works. Faith leads to works, but works do not save. James is saying "If you believe and are a Son of God and you have to give to your neighbor you can't say "Have faith, God will bless you" when you yourself should know and have faith, that you are God's representation on earth, so you will provide and still bless them that God will provide, you are the beginning of that blessing. Faith means to have a trust in. It is not just "doing." Mormons get it backwards all the time. They constantly wonder if they are forgiven because they don't believe God who says "if you confess your sins you are forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness."
Nephi's brother Jacob literally tells us all we can do is repent. The Lamanites who turn into anti-nephi-lehites say "All they could do was repent." They had to submit to mercy of God. We are saved after all we can do, merely by submitting ot God and believing He will. Repentance means to turn towards God and not away. The Bible says "Hey "does you having faith mean you can sin?" Paul says "NO" How can you say that you've been forgiven and then continue living in sin? Just because GOd's grace abounds to save you doesn't mean you keep sinning so that it abounds more. Paul goes on further to say It is by relyingon Christ and trhough being transformed through hte Spirit that we can avoid sin, because we believe that God really is forming us in His image. We can't try and convince God we are changing by doing works, we don't earn our place in heaven by our works, we believe and trust that God is working in us and therefore we begin to change and do works and a new creation - not becaues we are "trying" it is becaues that is who we are becoming. It no longer becomes "God should I help this person" It becomes God How should I help this person?
I agree His gospel is contained in many canons of scripture, but hte New Testametn actually makes it hte most clear. Why? the Gospel means good news. The Good news is that Jesus came, He died, and He was raised from teh dead all to restore us to relationship with the Father, to Show the Father had not cast us off and that we are not condemned (because JEsus came to save not to condemn (new Testametn) His NEw Testament (covenant) is how we can do this. We no longer should perceive ourselves as carnal men, but as men of God, because that is what God called us to be and through the blood of Jesus we can be so - it begins with believing in the truth of what Christ did and in the same way Christ died and was resurrected, we believe that we to will die to our natural man and be resurrected into a Spirit man, in this life (also we will be raised in teh next, but this life is the time to know God). So Jesus then also tells His Disciples "hey everything I told you and have given you is available to everyone else, go and make disciples of the whole world, show them the life I have given them, that their purpose isn't to just "get to heaven" but that they can have the Kingdom of God here on earth, for it dwells within them and my Holy Spriit is a manifestation of that. Teach them to not focus on what is going bad in their life, but ot focus on the life that they can give others in the same way I gave life to them and to you." "They will be free if they believe my words." (He who the Son sets free is free indeed). God Sees you as Holy, blameless and above reproach as long as you continue in the faith (Col, Cor, Gal, etc..) Don't be deceived and get caught back up in the idea that you have to work your way into heaven for Jesus Christ died once for all, you must just continue in the faith (Gal, Romans, Heb)- For the Kingdom of God is already given you (The 4 Gospels). etc etc.. The Gospel is good news, it is about salvation of transformation and of no longer struggling to "be" but letting God work in us through submission (iike a child for unto such is the Kingdom of HEaven) and we are the workmanship of His hands to manifest Christ and created in Christ (we have already been created that way if we received) (Eph 2). When you understand that, then you see that the message God gives in teh BoM in that "He loves all His children and speaks to all of them) is true because He speaks to all of them seeking all of them to come unto Him and be transformed into His image.
Without the context of the Bible, the Book of Mormon doesn't make as much sense- especially when it comes to Christ, the why and the How. SUre it has brief snippets, and mentions Him alot, but the depth is missing the why and how HE was the only one who could do it etc...