The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

[Niemand]

Is Peacemaker a reference to Jesus or the Holy Ghost?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Is Peacemaker a reference to Jesus or the Holy Ghost?

Peacemaker, Ayahtsuhway = Jesus. Sahnhehmpeht is also another name they use, but a few of the men are also called this name, which is similar to some Latin cultures.

Haymehnay = Holy Ghost

[Reluctant Watchman]

More prophesy about our day and what we perceive as the Law of Consecration. After reading about this law in great detail, and with dozens of examples throughout this record, I can’t “unsee” the corruption of the ordinances in our day:

17) I say unto you that they shall consecrate their time, talents and all that they might possess unto money and there shall always be poor among them. They shall have all common things, but not all things in common.

18) And when they have proven unto their satisfaction that the Peacemaker’s commandment to live a united order and have all things in common is impractical, they shall set even their interpretation aside and abandon it.

19) Yea, in those days they shall covenant to keep the Pillar of Consecration without any knowledge of the law and without any anxiety about living it. Their stewards, seeing that the Pillar of Consecration cannot be evaluated by money, shall declare that it is not expedient in the Peacemaker that they even experiment upon it.

20) Yea, they shall put such words into the Peacemaker’s mouth. Yet, they shall continue to require all men to swear with an oath to consecrate their time, talents and all that they might possess to the building up of that system that makes impossible the living of the law. Such shall be their confusion in the latter days.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I should add these subsequent verses. The Law of Consecration is not about money, but the intrinsic value and gifts of each individual child of God:

21) Wherefore, my children, it is most expedient that you teach your little ones the true nature of this great law, for the Peacemaker shall call upon them to live it. Yea, and it is by this understanding that Enduring Peace may be brought again into this land.

22) And behold, this is the thing that the Peacemaker shall require of His children in the last days. Yea, He shall require them to live the Pillar of Consecration and not simply promise to live it.

23) Behold, all they who understand this law hold to the principle that all things created have their worth, but that nothing can be truly valued in gold or in silver or any precious thing. Yea, they shall understand that intrinsic worth is not the same as value in the eyes of men.

[Trucker]

I'll give it a fair shot. Why not.

[Reluctant Watchman]

A few verses I’ve been pondering this morning.

To make a thing holy is to consecrate it unto the Peacemaker.

I believe this to be the most basic perspective of what consecration means. It is not about money or possessions.

39) Behold, he unto whom we give authority to value a man, we give unto him also all men to be his slave. Yea, and when we give way to a system of money, we give unto that system authority to enslave us all.

Any time we place into the hands of man the authority to define our “value” (and I would also say our “worthiness”) we have given power unto them to make us slaves. This is why the combination of sustaining a leader (literally making an oath to obey the arm of flesh), and the “cannot lead astray” mantra, are so damaging to the human soul.

[Trucker]

Ok this is the same as the Mentinah Archives which I did read some of years ago.

I consider it like Book of Mormon fan fiction. I understand that most Christians probably see the Book of Mormon like I see the Nemenhah Records. I don't want to dismiss these writing because they didn't come through proper channels, or because it somehow doesn't match what I expect ancient scriptural records to come forth would be, because opponents of the Book of Mormon can make the same arguments.

Ultimately, one should pray about these things. Sure that is the best way to know. I have not received a witness that they are true. I haven't received a witness either way. Given that, here's what bothers me:

By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall every word be established. I don't know the people behind this, and the translators are listed as:

"Hemene Ot To Oh Yelo Akekt (Phillip Cloudpiler Landis) of Moroni, UT, Cesar Padilla de Ramarra of
Guatemala, Tui Xiu of Guatemala, Menemi Shen of Taiwan, and Porfiro Munoz de Xiu of Ethiopia"

That's quite a diverse list. I'm not sure why an Ethiopian and Chinaman would be of much help translating ancient American languages. And I can't vet these people are real. They don't need expertise, but I would need witnesses to testify of it all.

Granted, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls and no one has testified or their divinity. We have the Apocrypha which the Lord says has some useful info and we should discern what is true from it using the spirit, so it's not like we couldn't get beneficial records except through remarkable, divine means. Is it possible that a record could be found by archaeologist or Indian archivists that is actually true? Yes I think so. Does an angel have to present everything? I don't think so. And I don't think it has to come through the "proper channels" except for when the writings would be accepted as scripture for the entire church. But there could be writings found and only those prepared to receive and believe them would. But without witnesses, I don't think they are. The Lord's pattern is to use the testimony of witnesses, of real people. So this group of eclectic translators doesn't cut it for me.

Going off of what it actually contains, it was the Holy Ghost people that really wrecked it for me. I mean, C'mon. The temple ceremony is an expansion of what the LDS church did in more recent times, not what was done 100 years ago and back, which makes me think the Nemenhah Records were written by someone who went through the temple sometime recently.

And it appears that the people behind this intentionally changed the name of the writings from the Mentinah Archives to the Nemenhah Records to get away from the bad publicity.

So do I have hard heart? Maybe, but my mind and my spirit do not feel enlightened, and I have no witness from the Holy Ghost that it is true, and there are not 2 or 3 witnesses that are real people that I know of testifying of its truthfulness. So I am not on board with it. But it does have some interesting doctrine, I'll admit to that.

[Seed Starter]

Good timing on this

[Reluctant Watchman]

Ok this is the same as the Mentinah Archives which I did read some of years ago.

I consider it like Book of Mormon fan fiction. I understand that most Christians probably see the Book of Mormon like I see the Nemenhah Records. I don't want to dismiss these writing because they didn't come through proper channels, or because it somehow doesn't match what I expect ancient scriptural records to come forth would be, because opponents of the Book of Mormon can make the same arguments.

Ultimately, one should pray about these things. Sure that is the best way to know. I have not received a witness that they are true. I haven't received a witness either way. Given that, here's what bothers me:

By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall every word be established. I don't know the people behind this, and the translators are listed as:

"Hemene Ot To Oh Yelo Akekt (Phillip Cloudpiler Landis) of Moroni, UT, Cesar Padilla de Ramarra of
Guatemala, Tui Xiu of Guatemala, Menemi Shen of Taiwan, and Porfiro Munoz de Xiu of Ethiopia"

That's quite a diverse list. I'm not sure why an Ethiopian and Chinaman would be of much help translating ancient American languages. And I can't vet these people are real. They don't need expertise, but I would need witnesses to testify of it all.

Granted, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls and no one has testified or their divinity. We have the Apocrypha which the Lord says has some useful info and we should discern what is true from it using the spirit, so it's not like we couldn't get beneficial records except through remarkable, divine means. Is it possible that a record could be found by archaeologist or Indian archivists that is actually true? Yes I think so. Does an angel have to present everything? I don't think so. And I don't think it has to come through the "proper channels" except for when the writings would be accepted as scripture for the entire church. But there could be writings found and only those prepared to receive and believe them would. But without witnesses, I don't think they are. The Lord's pattern is to use the testimony of witnesses, of real people. So this group of eclectic translators doesn't cut it for me.

Going off of what it actually contains, it was the Holy Ghost people that really wrecked it for me. I mean, C'mon. The temple ceremony is an expansion of what the LDS church did in more recent times, not what was done 100 years ago and back, which makes me think the Nemenhah Records were written by someone who went through the temple sometime recently.

And it appears that the people behind this intentionally changed the name of the writings from the Mentinah Archives to the Nemenhah Records to get away from the bad publicity.

So do I have hard heart? Maybe, but my mind and my spirit do not feel enlightened, and I have no witness from the Holy Ghost that it is true, and there are not 2 or 3 witnesses that are real people that I know of testifying of its truthfulness. So I am not on board with it. But it does have some interesting doctrine, I'll admit to that.

Do with it what you will. Read it, don't read it. My life has been blessed greatly by reading it.

As far as the "Holy Ghost people", the general narrative is a parable, but do we honestly think there aren't more intelligences in the Universe? It actually makes way more sense to me than the LDS construct of the HG.

BTW, nothing in this temple endowment bothers me. In fact, I find it extremely beautiful. It helps me understand what Joseph was striving for with the original endowment. I would ask anyone to try and pick apart the four core pillars (laws) as taught in this record. Not only that, but they clearly prophecy how corrupt the LDS version of the endowment has become. The whole purpose of the temple was to teach higher knowledge, make covenants to keep these laws, and then pierce the veil, see Christ, and be taught of Him. All of this was taught openly and to their children from the time they could learn.

As far as the name, it was more appropriate to call it the Nemenhah Records. Mentinah was the name of the city where the majority of the records were kept, but not all of them. To suggest the name change was to take heat off of some previous edition is strange IMO. It was not deceptive at all.

If you don't want to read it, or the Spirit doesn't prompt you to read, then follow the Spirit. That's literally one of the most oft-repeated doctrines in this record.

[Trucker]

Ok this is the same as the Mentinah Archives which I did read some of years ago.

I consider it like Book of Mormon fan fiction. I understand that most Christians probably see the Book of Mormon like I see the Nemenhah Records. I don't want to dismiss these writing because they didn't come through proper channels, or because it somehow doesn't match what I expect ancient scriptural records to come forth would be, because opponents of the Book of Mormon can make the same arguments.

Ultimately, one should pray about these things. Sure that is the best way to know. I have not received a witness that they are true. I haven't received a witness either way. Given that, here's what bothers me:

By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall every word be established. I don't know the people behind this, and the translators are listed as:

"Hemene Ot To Oh Yelo Akekt (Phillip Cloudpiler Landis) of Moroni, UT, Cesar Padilla de Ramarra of
Guatemala, Tui Xiu of Guatemala, Menemi Shen of Taiwan, and Porfiro Munoz de Xiu of Ethiopia"

That's quite a diverse list. I'm not sure why an Ethiopian and Chinaman would be of much help translating ancient American languages. And I can't vet these people are real. They don't need expertise, but I would need witnesses to testify of it all.

Granted, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls and no one has testified or their divinity. We have the Apocrypha which the Lord says has some useful info and we should discern what is true from it using the spirit, so it's not like we couldn't get beneficial records except through remarkable, divine means. Is it possible that a record could be found by archaeologist or Indian archivists that is actually true? Yes I think so. Does an angel have to present everything? I don't think so. And I don't think it has to come through the "proper channels" except for when the writings would be accepted as scripture for the entire church. But there could be writings found and only those prepared to receive and believe them would. But without witnesses, I don't think they are. The Lord's pattern is to use the testimony of witnesses, of real people. So this group of eclectic translators doesn't cut it for me.

Going off of what it actually contains, it was the Holy Ghost people that really wrecked it for me. I mean, C'mon. The temple ceremony is an expansion of what the LDS church did in more recent times, not what was done 100 years ago and back, which makes me think the Nemenhah Records were written by someone who went through the temple sometime recently.

And it appears that the people behind this intentionally changed the name of the writings from the Mentinah Archives to the Nemenhah Records to get away from the bad publicity.

So do I have hard heart? Maybe, but my mind and my spirit do not feel enlightened, and I have no witness from the Holy Ghost that it is true, and there are not 2 or 3 witnesses that are real people that I know of testifying of its truthfulness. So I am not on board with it. But it does have some interesting doctrine, I'll admit to that.

Do with it what you will. Read it, don't read it. My life has been blessed greatly by reading it.

As far as the "Holy Ghost people", the general narrative is a parable, but do we honestly think there aren't more intelligences in the Universe? It actually makes way more sense to me than the LDS construct of the HG.

BTW, nothing in this temple endowment bothers me. In fact, I find it extremely beautiful. It helps me understand what Joseph was striving for with the original endowment. I would ask anyone to try and pick apart the four core pillars (laws) as taught in this record. Not only that, but they clearly prophecy how corrupt the LDS version of the endowment has become. The whole purpose of the temple was to teach higher knowledge, make covenants to keep these laws, and then pierce the veil, see Christ, and be taught of Him. All of this was taught openly and to their children from the time they could learn.

As far as the name, it was more appropriate to call it the Nemenhah Records. Mentinah was the name of the city where the majority of the records were kept, but not all of them. To suggest the name change was to take heat off of some previous edition is strange IMO. It was not deceptive at all.

If you don't want to read it, or the Spirit doesn't prompt you to read, then follow the Spirit. That's literally one of the most oft-repeated doctrines in this record.

Does the aspect of HF and HM not knowing about the HGP not bother you? And that the Everlasting Covenant was basically a bad plan that the HGP finally improved on?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Does the aspect of HF and HM not knowing about the HGP not bother you? And that the Everlasting Covenant was basically a bad plan that the HGP finally improved on?

No, it doesn't bother me. Do I fully understand it? No. But you do have to understand that this is an allegory. At what point did the HG enter the equation? Also, where were our parents at in their own progression?

As far as the Everlasting Covenant, it wasn't a bad plan. The record clearly states this as such. That plan did allow for all of creation to ascend and for their children to become like them. But, the New and Everlasting Covenant was a better plan, which reduced suffering in the universe. To call it "bad" is a glass-half-full perspective.

[Lineman1012]

Talking to cloudpilar many years ago about the Holy Ghost People, he said the translators didn’t know what to call this entity. That calling them Holy Ghost People was the best description they could come up with. But, this group that was passing through the immensity of space loved truth, could not lie and hated to see how much suffering it took to advance to the level had by our Father and Mother in Heaven.

I do not have a spiritual witness of the truthfulness of this entire record, but I do have a great love of many of the stories contained within its pages. Stories and teachings that add to further light and knowledge of the Book of Mormon. Like how the story of Corianton and Isabel solidifies the abomination of sexual relations outside of marriage and how polygamy is perversion of Father’s law of marriage and how man always sinks to that level. Plus how pride grows within the membership of the church and they don’t even know it. Healing from the stuff found in the great fish - natural healing.

I always have trouble with scriptures when they point out something I’m doing/thinking/teaching wrong. Only when I humble myself and submit to our Father’s will can I increase in knowledge/wisdom/love.

I keep going back to “a bible a bible” we have the word of God and need no more. People are now saying a Book of Mormon- a Book of Mormon we have a Book of Mormon and we don’t need any more.

Aren’t we to have at least 12 books of scriptures before it’s all over?

[Niemand]

Talking to cloudpilar many years ago about the Holy Ghost People, he said the translators didn’t know what to call this entity. That calling them Holy Ghost People was the best description they could come up with. But, this group that was passing through the immensity of space loved truth, could not lie and hated to see how much suffering it took to advance to the level had by our Father and Mother in Heaven.

I do not have a spiritual witness of the truthfulness of this entire record, but I do have a great love of many of the stories contained within its pages. Stories and teachings that add to further light and knowledge of the Book of Mormon. Like how the story of Corianton and Isabel solidifies the abomination of sexual relations outside of marriage and how polygamy is perversion of Father’s law of marriage and how man always sinks to that level. Plus how pride grows within the membership of the church and they don’t even know it. Healing from the stuff found in the great fish - natural healing.

I always have trouble with scriptures when they point out something I’m doing/thinking/teaching wrong. Only when I humble myself and submit to our Father’s will can I increase in knowledge/wisdom/love.

I keep going back to “a bible a bible” we have the word of God and need no more. People are now saying a Book of Mormon- a Book of Mormon we have a Book of Mormon and we don’t need any more.

Aren’t we to have at least 12 books of scriptures before it’s all over?

Most Protestants have a 66 book canon. 6, 66, 606 and 666 are all dubious numbers according to the old tradition.

[Reluctant Watchman]

We discussed the importance of law among a righteous community w/ the kids this morning. Prior to the quote below, the author goes into great detail as to the nature of their laws. They were not complex, but founded upon the gospel of Jesus Christ. They extolled true princples and condemned sin.

After relating their laws, we learn a great lesson about the necessity of communicating with w/ each other when offenses occur. For the most part, matters were handled privately and done without lawyers. A society that isn’t built upon the gospel of Christ requires an innumerable amount of laws to govern the people. This, in turn, required an innumerable number of lawyers, which then causes an increase of pride and greed among the community:

101) Now, in the experience of our people, because we have founded ourselves upon these simple precepts, we find that we do not need a larger body of law. For, when there are complaints or offenses of lesser nature, we do insist that the parties settle the matter between themselves privily. And this is wisdom. For, every matter of lesser import ought to be settled in this manner, to preserve peace between neighbors.

102) And behold, needing no greater body of law, we find no need for bodies of lawyers and legalists either. Wherefore, we prevent great evil in the land. For, as is too evident in the Waynahstitspah where their laws enlarge to the point of being more populous than the people, a great body of men to interpret so great a body of law is naturally necessitated. With such comes also the need for a hierarchy of judges to judge the people, for every act does become in one way or another against so great a volume of law.

103) And, because these men do labor all the day long in arguing the law, they do not labor for the maintenance of the people nor of the community. Wherefore, they must earn a wage and buy with money that which they need from they who actually produce. This also necessitates the use of money and the storing up of much provision to be sold for money.

104) And behold, in this there is great iniquity and great danger to the community. For behold, great stores of stuff of value brings about the building of riches and of pride. And it is easy to become covetous of the few who have the stewardship of so much. And it is easy to use such stores of stuff to buy up lawyers and judges to one’s own purposes. Yea, and this is the downfall of all and the eventual ruin of Peace.

Because of this they spent great amounts of time teaching their children the laws so that they could govern themselves and resolve conflicts w/o the need of lawyers and judges:

105) Wherefore, because we do constrain our body of law to that which the Peacemaker has given, we have no need of great bodies of lawyers and judges, a great blessing to us.

106) And also, we do teach and diligently instruct our children in all of our laws in order that they might be competent to make settlement of their small concerns one with another and cause no greater matter to come before the Councils.

107) Behold, this is our law, our custom and our way.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I feel this to be a very apt description of where we are today. How many wars have we seen in the past 2-3 generations? How much war must we wage for our greed and corruption? Are we tired of it yet? Are we tired of feeding our children to Babylon?

The last two verses are what really speaks to my heart and are one of the reasons why I connect w/ this Record so much. All throughout the record, we are shown a blueprint of how we can remove ourselves from Babylon. How we can truly find and enduring peace. And it shows us the pride and greed of the servants in our day.

Who would have ever thought the LDS church would be exposed for their lies and corruption, especially w/ the $32B they illegally hid from the members? They have truly become the great and spacious building. They have enslaved the saints. Now you know why I’m so passionate about tithing. They have brought the entire church under bondage.

15) For I know that there shall go forth a lust for gain in this land and it shall consume the hearts of men and women in the latter days. But I also know that it shall be precisely in such times that the Peacemaker shall bring forth these writings, if even only a portion of them, for the good of those few who shall diligently seek Him.

16) And there shall be many who dig in the earth for all manner of ancient things. And if they deem the things worthless for smelting and the making of money, behold they shall find great worth in them as antiquities and they shall seek them in order that they might sell them for money.

17) And this is not all. I have looked down the vistas of time, yea, I have looked upon the future and I have seen how the shepherds of men and the governors of nations shall seek out these things to destroy them because they teach of different ways. Yea, these records do teach ways in which men might beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks and this shall be inconvenient for the rulers of that day.

18) Yea, and the writings of the families of our people do record how that they did live for generations without war and without want of any kind.

19) Behold, there shall be some who tire of warfare and of hunger. Yea, they shall wish to cast off the shackles of their captivity but know nothing of how to do it. Howbeit, they might use these records as an ensample and a plan for the building up of an Enduring Peace again in the land.

20) But behold, the shepherds of the church shall not want such a removal from that which they have declared unto the people. Yea, they shall be offended that the people should turn to their ancestors instead of unto them to find a way whereby they might cast off Babylon and return unto the ways of righteousness. And this because the shepherds have grown rich on the bondage of their subjects. Yea, this because the church has become like unto that great and spacious building which our father Lehi saw in a vision.

[Reluctant Watchman]

A few interesting verses from my morning study. I’ve found this admonition to not trust in the flesh, but God alone, to be witnessed in nearly every canon of scripture. NT, BoM, D&C and this record as well.

Verses 28 & 29 are interesting. They clearly present the idea that the things taught in this record will not only be rejected by societal leaders and church leaders, but are a direct threat to their power and authority.

26) Seek not the recognition of men, nay, nor of the leaders of men. Seek not the approbation of the rulers of kingdoms and nations. Do not sit yourselves down at the feet of the shepherds of the church to worship them. Seek only the face of the Peacemaker and you will do well.

27) Rely not upon the strength of the arm of flesh, for the Creator shall make flesh His arm before the nations and they shall all quail before Him. Behold, it is better to trust in Him and abide His love than to trust in men and abide His wrath.

28) For behold, if you lay these works before the feet of the governors, they shall esteem them a threat to their governance. Wherefore, trust not in their judgment.

29) And if you lay these works before the feet of the shepherds, they shall esteem them a threat to their authority. Wherefore, trust not in their judgment.

30) Lay these things before the feet of the Peacemaker and seek a confirmation of them by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

I remember that even just bringing up the name of this record to an emeritus member of the 70, he outright dismissed it, solely based upon his belief that any such record would come through “the proper priesthood channels and with the proper keys.” Oh, the pride of the gentiles.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Growing up, most of us were taught the importance of the HG… but blinders were put on the church as to the extent of how important the HG was/is. We were told that our revelation cannot contradict the revelation of the brethren. They were/are sorely mistaken. I don’t think we can overstate the importance of the role the HG plays in our lives:

46) The world is large and many are the ensamples of the handiwork of the Creator. Yea, many are the ways and means provided that we might teach of creation. But of all these ways and means, make not gods of them. Of a surety, all things do denote the Creator’s design and His policy, but making good use of them to teach your little ones, be certain that they come to know the Creator.

47) The Peacemaker, even Jesus Christ, did covenant for our good, even before the foundation of the world. Wherefore, He is our instructor. Teach your little ones to seek instruction of Him. Yea, teach them to seek Him and He will teach them.

48) And the things which they shall learn from the Peacemaker and from His messengers and Ministers, shall be confirmed by the power of the Holy Ghost, even the Holy Spirit of Promise.

49) It is a pit into which many shall fall, that they shall be instructed of just men and women, angels, yea, and even by the mouth of God Himself, and yet they will not seek the confirmation of the Holy Ghost.

–The Nemenhah Record, 1st Ed. P.438

[Reluctant Watchman]

A group of people came up into the city of Mentinah, they learned their customs and teachings and desired to covenant to keep their laws and ordinances. Three men married and wanted to start their own community several days to the North. The details of how they built this community are really quite fascinating. They built a house of worship, homes, irrigation systems, a water purification system, and running water to their homes.

But, the one thing that was most important, was their desire to live true principles. The pillar of consecration is vital to a Zion-like society. No church or group of people will truly have peace until they are willing to cast aside the desire for the acquisition of wealth and class distinction.

42) Now this prosperous city was established by three men and their wives, and but a few young men to help them erect their first homes and the Itsipi. Now, we see that it does not require a great people to create a refuge, but it does require that the people have hearts to live a celestial law. Yea, the people prospered so quickly because they were determined to create Zion in their hearts. Then, when they desired to strengthen the stakes of Zion, verily, the Peacemaker did prosper them.

43) All you who embark upon this same design, having a desire in your hearts to expand and strengthen the stakes of Zion, remember that the great success of the Nemenhah depended upon that covenant into which all entered, who would have place among the people, that made of them all one heart and one mind.

44) Yea, we have all things in common and we work diligently to provide for our neighbors. And behold, it is according to our custom that, in working to provide for our brothers and sisters, all things are added unto us, for we are all relations.

[Reluctant Watchman]

My heart yearns for people to learn from this record as I have. One of the biggest reasons is because these people prophesied of our day, they saw the Remnant that would survive the tribulations and they gave instructions as to how they would be able to survive. True doctrine was the keystone of their society. These guiding principles influenced how they formed their communities and cared for the earth. They gave us a blueprint for Zion in our day.

These verses come after a lengthy prophecy about the corrupt nature of the world, the period of tribulation, and how the Remnant will separate themselves from the wicked:

46) And behold, I declare it unto you, Nemenhah, it shall be because we have lived as we have, and that we have written it, that some few shall avoid the great disaster that shall befall that great nation that shall enthrall this land and its people in the latter days.

47) Yea, they shall read of our doing and take heart. They shall learn of our ways and take courage. Yea, reading of our customs, they shall emulate them and find relief and safety from the coming scourge.

48) For behold, the Peacemaker shall have given this fair land unto a mighty people and they shall have wasted His great gift upon the lusts of their hearts. Wherefore, He shall stay His hand that the curse which lay upon this land shall cause them to stumble upon every little thing. And their riches will become slippery to them and shall not be found. Yea, and the fruit of the vine shall cast itself, and the good of the earth shall spoil.

49) And there shall come a day when they that will not recognize their Peacemaker shall lay themselves down to die in the streets and there shall be none to comfort them or even know them as a neighbor.

50) Therefore, what shall we do who see these things? Live according to every commandment of Peacemaker, seeking Him daily. And write all His doings in books. Then shall there be a right model for the Remnant to use to reestablish Zion in their day.

[Reluctant Watchman]

How a commission to serve the Lord should be had:

53) Teach your little ones to seek the commission of the Peacemaker. Yea, teach them to seek it in all that they pray of Him. For it is by and through His commission that they receive authority to speak and act in His name.

54) Behold, if they have desire to do His work in the world, then He must commission them, for none other may do it. And this is the only way whereby He does admit His sons and daughters into His ministry. Wherefore, teach them to seek His commission early and to retain His commission throughout their lives.

D&C 4 gets really close, but a “desire” must be accompanied by a witness from the Lord:

3 Therefore, if ye have desires to serve God ye are called to the work;

[Reluctant Watchman]

I feel this to be a very important topic and prophecy in the Nemenhah Record. These writings (speaking generally) are a blueprint for Zion and share in great detail the economy of God and how a Zion-like people should live. The quote below is a very specific prophecy for our day and what happened during the Restoration. The Saints failed to live the law of Consecration w/in the first generation, and it will continue until the sixth, or until the Lord's people cast out Babylon. Given the distortion of the law of the tithe and the recent SEC filing, the modern LDS leaders are called out for their corruption and lack of understanding of the true principle of Consecration:

10) Above all, I believe we owe our success as a nation and a community of nations to the Pillar of Consecration. For, it is by observance of this principle that this nation and its neighbors do come out of Babylon .

11) Yea, we do forsake the world and adhere to the Peacemaker’s Law of Economy, having not a desire to get gain unto our own holding and dominion, but rather, only a desire to gain abundance both for ourselves and for our neighbors.

12) Behold, we would not have riches, fine apparel and costly things, and also see our brothers and our sisters languish in want and necessity. But, if it becomes the fashion to have such things, it is only because all may have them together. And this has become a law unto us and to all the villages and settlements round about us.

13) And this shall be a sign unto whom the Earth might yield up this record: In the latter days the Peacemaker will raise up His Church once again unto the people. Yea, through a Prophet He will begin to restore that which had lain seemingly dormant for many lives of men. And through His Church He will cause the Gifts of the Haymehnay once again to pour out upon the earth to heal her.

14) But behold, before this little church shall have had but one generation in which to grow, and the believers begin to enjoy once again great blessings from Heaven, they shall reject even such things as the Peacemaker shall provide with His own mighty hand.

15) Yea, before one generation has passed, the Peacemaker shall declare the very most honored of God under His mighty condemnation, and this condemnation shall not be lifted to the sixth generation.

16) Yea, this condemnation shall stand in effect until the children of the restoration shall finally begin to turn their hearts away from the world and from Babylon.

17) And this shall be a sore vexation for them. For, they shall have the great gifts which the Peacemaker shall have given them before they turned from His paths, and they shall remember still the Gifts of the Holy Ghost which He did cause to be poured out upon their forefathers.

18) Yet behold, they shall have been led by shepherds whose concerns are for the getting of gain and of great wealth, and even their attempts to live the Law of Consecration shall be muddied and polluted by the principles of the world that their leading men shall introduce into their experiments.

19) Yea, and they shall fail utterly to live the law that contains and controls the abundance. In the end, yea, and by the time the Peacemaker shall wax in His impatience with them, they shall have cast aside the Law of Consecration almost entirely.

[FrankOne]

I feel this to be a very important topic and prophecy in the Nemenhah Record. These writings (speaking generally) are a blueprint for Zion and share in great detail the economy of God and how a Zion-like people should live. The quote below is a very specific prophecy for our day and what happened during the Restoration. The Saints failed to live the law of Consecration w/in the first generation, and it will continue until the sixth, or until the Lord's people cast out Babylon. Given the distortion of the law of the tithe and the recent SEC filing, the modern LDS leaders are called out for their corruption and lack of understanding of the true principle of Consecration:

10) Above all, I believe we owe our success as a nation and a community of nations to the Pillar of Consecration. For, it is by observance of this principle that this nation and its neighbors do come out of Babylon .

11) Yea, we do forsake the world and adhere to the Peacemaker’s Law of Economy, having not a desire to get gain unto our own holding and dominion, but rather, only a desire to gain abundance both for ourselves and for our neighbors.

12) Behold, we would not have riches, fine apparel and costly things, and also see our brothers and our sisters languish in want and necessity. But, if it becomes the fashion to have such things, it is only because all may have them together. And this has become a law unto us and to all the villages and settlements round about us.

13) And this shall be a sign unto whom the Earth might yield up this record: In the latter days the Peacemaker will raise up His Church once again unto the people. Yea, through a Prophet He will begin to restore that which had lain seemingly dormant for many lives of men. And through His Church He will cause the Gifts of the Haymehnay once again to pour out upon the earth to heal her.

14) But behold, before this little church shall have had but one generation in which to grow, and the believers begin to enjoy once again great blessings from Heaven, they shall reject even such things as the Peacemaker shall provide with His own mighty hand.

15) Yea, before one generation has passed, the Peacemaker shall declare the very most honored of God under His mighty condemnation, and this condemnation shall not be lifted to the sixth generation.

16) Yea, this condemnation shall stand in effect until the children of the restoration shall finally begin to turn their hearts away from the world and from Babylon.

17) And this shall be a sore vexation for them. For, they shall have the great gifts which the Peacemaker shall have given them before they turned from His paths, and they shall remember still the Gifts of the Holy Ghost which He did cause to be poured out upon their forefathers.

18) Yet behold, they shall have been led by shepherds whose concerns are for the getting of gain and of great wealth, and even their attempts to live the Law of Consecration shall be muddied and polluted by the principles of the world that their leading men shall introduce into their experiments.

19) Yea, and they shall fail utterly to live the law that contains and controls the abundance. In the end, yea, and by the time the Peacemaker shall wax in His impatience with them, they shall have cast aside the Law of Consecration almost entirely.

V 18 is very interesting.

I would guess that most would think that V 18 applies to the failed "united order" attempts made by the church.

I'm wondering if it is still futuristic. My reasoning is that the first portion of 18 mentions how the shepherds concern at the time were to get gain and great wealth and then.... the attempt to live the law of consecration.... which will be muddled and polluted by the principles of the world.

One possibility: The LDS leadership greatest focus today is to be integrated into the whirled citizenry and to make 'great wealth'. I have postulated in the past, that when the economy gets extremely bad, the whirled govt will ask the LDS church to step up with their vast resources of food , ie, ranches, farms, and STORAGE. The church then tells members that it is their duty to help the whirled as an act of consecration to give their food storage...or a portion of it.... to the starving whirled.

The food then goes to the UN and the UN laughs and throws it in a hole in the ground.

Reading it again with V 19 , I'm not sure my theory works but I don't think that the church was hell bent on "great wealth" during the time of the United Order.

[Reluctant Watchman]

V 18 is very interesting.

I would guess that most would think that V 18 applies to the failed "united order" attempts made by the church.

I'm wondering if it is still futuristic. My reasoning is that the first portion of 18 mentions how the shepherds concern at the time were to get gain and great wealth and then.... the attempt to live the law of consecration.... which will be muddled and polluted by the principles of the world.

One possibility: The LDS leadership greatest focus today is to be integrated into the whirled citizenry and to make 'great wealth'. I have postulated in the past, that when the economy gets extremely bad, the whirled govt will ask the LDS church to step up with their vast resources of food , ie, ranches, farms, and STORAGE. The church then tells members that it is their duty to help the whirled as an act of consecration to give their food storage...or a portion of it.... to the starving whirled.

The food then goes to the UN and the UN laughs and throws it in a hole in the ground.

Reading it again with V 19 , I'm not sure my theory works but I don't think that the church was hell bent on "great wealth" during the time of the United Order.

I can see the fulfillment of this prophecy in a few different ways. The apostasy occurs at the death of the prophet. It notes their failure to live certain principles, and then the future desire for wealth. I see the "attempt" at consecration as simply the lip service they give this law in the current LDS endowment or the way they try to explain that the welfare system and bishop storehouse are our forms of consecration. Regardless they have sought the acquisition of wealth in our day AND failed to teach the principles of a consecrated society.

[logonbump]

The best place to start is the original post in this thread. I have links where you can purchase either a PDF or printed book. I enjoy reading the PDF version on my iPad using an app called “Documents.” It allows for full document searching, and complete ability to highlight, mark up, tag, annotate, cross reference, etc. If you want the reference above, it’s a quick word/phrase search.

As far as where to begin… the beginning is the best place if you’ve never read it before. It really sets the context for the rest of the books. I even hesitate to share with you the book where this quote above was taken from because you’ll miss all of the context leading up to it and which religious group this man came from. Moroni actually had a confrontation with originator of that religion. Knowing that puts all of this into perspective.

I sometimes hesitate to quote even a handful or group of verses because there is often much more going on contextually.

Thanks.
Yeah, that’s the difficulty I’ve found with these is that when snipets are shared, it seems soooo “spot on”…. My mom loves the records and has shared such quotes…
I obviously agree with what’s said. I agree that these are fundamental problems facing our people today that have led us to inherit false beliefs. It’s just when it’s word for word that it’s hard not to suspect it being less historical (though perhaps still inspired in some way)…
But YES, I will try reading in context…

Keep in mind, the quotes above pre-date any of the latter/modern quotes by a long ways. Also, as you work your way through the record, the parallels to the BoM are beyond accurate. I feel it is near impossible to weave the historical and doctrinal narrative from the BoM into a record like this without being one of the greatest BoM scholars and writers that I’ve ever seen. Not to mention the ability to teach with doctrinal clarity that far surpasses any written word that I’ve ever pondered. And to introduce advanced discourses on faith, the doctrine of Christ, second comforter, and the overarching importance of listening to the Holy Ghost.

And I’ll also say, there are things that will certainly challenge your religious paradigms if you were raised in the LDS church, that is certain. I hope to touch on those topics here, but just the little I’ve tried to point out in various threads on the forum has been met with pretty staunch resistance.

It should also be noted, either the translators/writers today were keenly aware of LDS culture, like on a very intimate level, or this puppy is what is says it is. They touch on almost all aspects of the LDS religious experience. The latter-day prophesies of the restoration and eventual corruption are like I’m reading from an LDS scholar who’s awakened to the distortions of power, keys, authority, false traditions, the whole ball of wax. I believe they saw our day.

Do you suppose that the text is somehow meant to challenge our LDS paradigm? Mormon the historian did write his book to a directed, albeit broad audience and carries is stated mission. Do does the Nemenhah record bear evidence of a singular bibliographer or an expression of its intended audience or purpose?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Do you suppose that the text is somehow meant to challenge our LDS paradigm? Mormon the historian did write his book to a directed, albeit broad audience and carries is stated mission. Do does the Nemenhah record bear evidence of a singular bibliographer or an expression of its intended audience or purpose?

This record is not a single author or bibliographer. Every writer has a unique writing style for the most part. You can see it in their writing. Some of them are more serious, others bring in a bit of humor. Some are prone to focus on one theology, etc. The three Nephites also have their own distinct writing style.

I believe the BoM was intended to be a more condensed record for a specific purpose. Otherwise, how many records could we have had? Mormon most likely had hundreds of records to choose from.