The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:04 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 7:11 pm And their Priesthood shall be the commission of the Peacemaker, given personally.
That's definitely interesting, Christ personally gives them their priesthood.
JS, JST, BoM, D&C teach that High priesthood is given by YHWH's mouth. Last half of this page has many quotes on that. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/priesthood/

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Shawn Henry wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:10 pm ordinances of the temple
So, here is where we have a deviation from the Book of Mormon and an embracing of the Nauvoo secret works of darkness?
Yes, yes, I know we can find ceremonies like those in LDS temples being done historically around the world. But that does not mean any of them were from God. Mystery Babylon has spread around the world. The ceremonies being performed in LDS / Brighamite temples are of the occult, which is of Mystery Babylon, and not of God. We can see how the works of darkness spread all over.

Helaman (LDS 6:28) (RLDS 2:154) … And it was that same being who led on the people who came from that tower into this land; who spread the works of darkness and abominations over all the face of the land, until he dragged the people down to an entire destruction, and to an everlasting hell.

If you ask me Joseph Smith was in the process of gathering evidence against Brigham Young to excommunicate him for his sins and crimes, which is why Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith’s murder, which is talked about in The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph & Hyrum: Part One along with “The Carthage Conspiracy” and Joseph Smith Was Murdered By Freemasons. (Knowing this I find verse Helaman (LDS 6:19) (RLDS 2:128) very telling, especially considering what is being described before and after it, not to mention Helaman (LDS 6:21) (RLDS 2:145).) When that was rooted out of me many other things started to make sense.

Helaman (LDS 6:19) (RLDS 2:128) And it was they [those with secret signs and words] who did murder the chief judge Cezoram [Joseph and Hyrum Smith], and his son [successor, Samuel Smith], while in the judgment-seat; and behold, they were not found.

If Helaman (LDS 6:22-27) (RLDS 2:146-152) does not sound like what happens in LDS Temples along with what members in politics and the law do to protecting the LDS / Brighamite church, and how and why many courts of love [of power] are conducted I don’t know what does. (see McKenna Denson a force for good for examples and Bishops are JUDGEs of Israel for explanation)

Helaman (LDS 6:22-27) (RLDS 2:146-152)
22 And it came to pass that they did have their SIGNS, yea, their SECRET SIGNS, and their SECRET WORDS; and this that they might DISTINGUISH a brother who had ENTERED into the COVENANT, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he SHOULD NOT BE INJURED BY HIS BROTHER [upholding their kingdom], nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this COVENANT. 23 And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal, and commit WHOREDOMS and all manner of wickedness, CONTRARY to the LAWS of their COUNTRY and also the LAWS of their GOD. 24 And whosoever of those who BELONGED to their band should REVEAL unto the WORLD of their WICKEDNESS and their ABOMINATIONS, should be TRIED, not according to the laws of their country, BUT ACCORDING TO THE LAWS OF THEIR WICKEDNESS, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen. 25 Now behold, it is these SECRET OATHS and COVENANTS which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto DESTRUCTION. 26 Now behold, those SECRET OATHS and COVENANTS did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit— 27 Yea, that same being who did plot with Cain, that if he would murder his brother Abel it should not be known unto the world. And he did plot with Cain and his followers from that time forth.

Not to mention that the temple ceremonies that the sons of Aaron performed in the tabernacle, which later was done in the temple, were sacred but not secret as they written in the first five books of the Bible which are also known as the Torah.

https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 8:54 am
Shawn Henry wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:04 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 7:11 pm And their Priesthood shall be the commission of the Peacemaker, given personally.
That's definitely interesting, Christ personally gives them their priesthood.
JS, JST, BoM, D&C teach that High priesthood is given by YHWH's mouth. Last half of this page has many quotes on that. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/priesthood/
So... not only are you not pointing out contradictions, but you are agreeing with this record. Interesting.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:07 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 8:54 am
Shawn Henry wrote: January 13th, 2023, 10:04 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 13th, 2023, 7:11 pm And their Priesthood shall be the commission of the Peacemaker, given personally.
That's definitely interesting, Christ personally gives them their priesthood.
JS, JST, BoM, D&C teach that High priesthood is given by YHWH's mouth. Last half of this page has many quotes on that. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/priesthood/
So... not only are you not pointing out contradictions, but you are agreeing with this record. Interesting.
that is for sure not what is going on, take care

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:24 am that is for sure not what is going on, take care
Uh, you literally agreed with what is taught in this record.

Oh, and I thought you were done commenting here... what gives? Glad to see you back. :)

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:26 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:24 am that is for sure not what is going on, take care
Uh, you literally agreed with what is taught in this record.

Oh, and I thought you were done commenting here... what gives? Glad to see you back. :)
you point to one agreement, which I actually doubt, but leave on the multitude of disagreements, take care. I got pulled in because I saw some good comment from others not from you.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:28 am you point to one agreement, which I actually doubt, but leave on the multitude of disagreements, take care. I got pulled in because I saw some good comment from others not from you.
I love the condescending tone.

BTW, you have yet to add a single comparative disagreement. None. Not one. Where's this intellectual integrity you've been clamoring about?

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:30 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:28 am you point to one agreement, which I actually doubt, but leave on the multitude of disagreements, take care. I got pulled in because I saw some good comment from others not from you.
I love the condescending tone.

BTW, you have yet to add a single comparative disagreement. None. Not one. Where's this intellectual integrity you've been clamoring about?
Its a copy of your tone. We for sure disagree, good bye. Look at your tone, you are the one who started it. If I could completely block you here I would, for the forum doesn't have an opition like that I know of.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:37 am Its a copy of your tone. We for sure disagree, good bye. Look at your tone, you are the one who started it. If I could completely block you here I would, for the forum doesn't have an opition like that I know of.
I seem to recall some teaching about an eye for an eye... hmm... btw, I'm not the one "who started it." I asked you to back up the claim you made. You just got your feathers ruffled when I asked for intellectual integrity.

I honestly would love for you to actually make a comparison in doctrine. You've used all of these keystrokes to banter back and forth, but not a single response to back your claim of doctrinal contradictions. Not one. Come on man.

Oh, and you can simply ignore this thread. You have agency you know. Nobody forced you to click the button. In fact, I'll even help you out here. There's a "foe" button on the forum. Add me to that list and you'll never have to read my responses ever again. But if I quote you, you'll still get that little notification. Again, just ignore this thread altogether. Then your life of bliss will continue without such an annoying person. :)
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on January 17th, 2023, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:44 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:37 am Its a copy of your tone. We for sure disagree, good bye. Look at your tone, you are the one who started it. If I could completely block you here I would, for the forum doesn't have an opition like that I know of.
I seem to recall some teaching about an eye for an eye... hmm... btw, I'm not the one "who started it." I asked you to back up the claim you made. You just got your feathers ruffled when I asked for intellectual integrity.

I honestly would love for you to actually make a comparison in doctrine. And, to clarify, you use all of these keystrokes to banter back and forth, but not a single response to back your claim of doctrinal contradictions. Not one. Come on man.

Oh, and you can simply ignore this thread. You have agency you know. Nobody forced you to click the button. In fact, I'll even help you out here. There's a "foe" button on the forum. Add me to that list and you'll never have to read my responses ever again.
Look at your condemning attitude.

People have done comparisons on the doctrine. And I admitted when I wrote the post it would have been better to quote the verses, but I'm not going back to find them. Like I said someone else said something I wanted to engage on, but then you needed to bring me back in even more.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:47 am Look at your condemning attitude.

People have done comparisons on the doctrine. And I admitted when I wrote the post it would have been better to quote the verses, but I'm not going back to find them. Like I said someone else said something I wanted to engage on, but then you needed to bring me back in even more.
As I noted above, you have the agency to ignore this thread.

Show me where I "condemned" you btw. You have a strange way of defining words. I was trying to help you out, to take some of this aggravation out of your life.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:49 am
SJR3t2 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 9:47 am Look at your condemning attitude.

People have done comparisons on the doctrine. And I admitted when I wrote the post it would have been better to quote the verses, but I'm not going back to find them. Like I said someone else said something I wanted to engage on, but then you needed to bring me back in even more.
As I noted above, you have the agency to ignore this thread.

Show me where I "condemned" you btw. You have a strange way of defining words.
I would appropriate if you would leave me alone. I have acknowldged the post I shared should have had more, but you wont let it go. Please leave me alone.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Simply stop responding. Nobody is taking away your agency.

Ah, I see the issue here. Since I quote you, you think you must respond in kind. I've removed the quotes. Now you have been freed from any obligation to respond. BE FREE!!

———

PS... we've really gotta lighten up here folks. Life is hard enough as it is. I know I probably don't exude the level of perceived kindness that some people expect... maybe I just see the world differently. It has taken a lot of time and effort to be ok with how the Lord teaches me personally. The conditioning of the church was so engrained into all aspects of my life.

If you want to comment about a subject, READ about it first. Be informed. Is that too hard to ask? Or just ignore it and go along with your life. Also, don't expect people to agree with you. I'm totally fine having disagreements, but at least be able to present a well-informed opinion.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on January 17th, 2023, 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 7:56 am
tmac wrote: January 17th, 2023, 7:28 am Maybe. Could just as easily be religious fantasy fiction. That can contain truth and heavenly precepts too. Lots and lots of books do. Too many to read in the rest of my lifetime. But what I am always seeking is the word of God. So, that becomes one of the measuring sticks — comparison to the recognized word of God for conflicts, etc. And, it looks like there might be some. Like Luke says, according to the recognized word of God, the Fathers of the ancient House of Israel practiced plural marriage. So, according to the recognized and accepted word of God, plural marriage is fully acceptable when it is ordained of God, and not abused. I have to agree with Luke, that is a useful measuring stick.
Yes, it could be “fantasy fiction” as you said. This book claims to contain “the word of God.” If you don’t want to read it, then don’t. I would put this book up against any existing scripture btw. An for sure, you are going to find that there are ideas presented here that are not found in other canon of scripture, or at least they aren’t mentioned, mostly likely due to the creative writing of early Bible scholars. We know that puppy has been tampered with.

This record also talks about how the Lord did command very specific dispensational heads to take more than one wife. But, it also repeats the doctrine taught in Jacob 2. So yeah, no conflict. Polygamy has never been taught as a precept to be lived by a general body of worshippers, and never presented as an exalting doctrine like Brigham did in 132. Utah polygamy actually hamper the spread of “seed” by grouping more women to old men. The census records show that there were more women than men living in Utah, so best way for the Lord to “raise of seed” was not to live polygamy. (I don’t care at all to turn this into a polygamy thread btw.)

As a side note, I do disagree with the chiastic view of Jacob 2, stating that polygamy was never sanctioned by the Lord and that he was referring only to separating out a righteous branch of people, but that’s me.
Tons and tons of stuff to speculate about.

And GS forgot this part in his quote, which is hard to find a way around:
According to the recognized word of God, the Fathers of the ancient House of Israel practiced plural marriage.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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I think people are going to be shocked when the discover that the New Testament really hasn't been tampered with as much as people have been led to believe in fact especially among modern translations including hte KJV, I would argue it's barely been tampered with - the "removal" of the plain and precious truths comes from the leaders not teaching hte truth found therein.- half of the things the church taught us about the coming together of hte bible is false. Their explanation is overly simplistic and deceptive.
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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tmac wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:08 am Tons and tons of stuff to speculate about.

And GS forgot this part in his quote, which is hard to find a way around:
According to the recognized word of God, the Fathers of the ancient House of Israel practiced plural marriage.
And tons and tons of stuff that the HG can witness to our hearts.

I would take issue with this wording, "According to the recognized word of God..." Men and women say many things under the guise of religion. Men "recognized" it, yet the HG is the only way to confirm it. As is repeated hundreds of times in this record alone, the only way to know truth is through the HG. All other sources may fail us.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:14 am I think people are going to be shocked when the discover that the New Testament really hasn't been tampered with as much as people have been led to believe in fact especially among modern translations including hte KJV, I would argue it's barely been tampered with - the "removal" of the plain and precious truths comes from the leaders not teaching hte truth found therein.- half of the things the church taught us about the coming together of hte bible is false. Their explanation is overly simplistic and deceptive.
Do you agree with Joseph?

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

The JST should be a pretty clear answer as to how he perceived the Bible. The clarification the JST adds is impressive in the least.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:20 am
John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:14 am I think people are going to be shocked when the discover that the New Testament really hasn't been tampered with as much as people have been led to believe in fact especially among modern translations including hte KJV, I would argue it's barely been tampered with - the "removal" of the plain and precious truths comes from the leaders not teaching hte truth found therein.- half of the things the church taught us about the coming together of hte bible is false. Their explanation is overly simplistic and deceptive.
Do you agree with Joseph?

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

The JST should be a pretty clear answer as to how he perceived the Bible. The clarification the JST adds is impressive in the least.
. His quoting of hte BIble more than the BoM ought to be how HE perceived teh Bible. Translated merely means the intent by the word was different. I look up words all the time in the Bible to grasp the broader sense of hte word and once in a great while I perceive that another word would have been better used. IT doesn't change the entire meaning of scripture. Joseph did not properly understand the word translate - and "his" translation was more his opinion added to scripture- with possible revelatory experiences. He himself changed his own "translations" a few times... adding then removing and then extrapolating other areas. Depending on if you believe Brigham, Joseph even said it it all "depended" on the revelation the Lord would give him and he would add to or take away from in order to make more clear certain revelations he had on certain sections of hte Bible. Again, Joseph wasn't "Translating" most of it. He had revelations which he added to it.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:27 am . His quoting of hte BIble more than the BoM ought to be how HE perceived teh Bible. Translated merely means the intent by the word was different. I look up words all the time in the Bible to grasp the broader sense of hte word and once in a great while I perceive that another word would have been better used. IT doesn't change the entire meaning of scripture. Joseph did not properly understand the word translate - and "his" translation was more his opinion added to scripture- with possible revelatory experiences. He himself changed his own "translations" a few times... adding then removing and then extrapolating other areas. Depending on if you believe Brigham, Joseph even said it it all "depended" on the revelation the Lord would give him and he would add to or take away from in order to make more clear certain revelations he had on certain sections of hte Bible. Again, Joseph wasn't "Translating" most of it. He had revelations which he added to it.
So yes or no?

JST adds much-needed context and clarification to the Bible. Knowing how many translations there are of the bible today, and how many languages it filtered through to get where we are today, we have to "translate" it with the gift of wisdom regardless.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:33 am
John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:27 am . His quoting of hte BIble more than the BoM ought to be how HE perceived teh Bible. Translated merely means the intent by the word was different. I look up words all the time in the Bible to grasp the broader sense of hte word and once in a great while I perceive that another word would have been better used. IT doesn't change the entire meaning of scripture. Joseph did not properly understand the word translate - and "his" translation was more his opinion added to scripture- with possible revelatory experiences. He himself changed his own "translations" a few times... adding then removing and then extrapolating other areas. Depending on if you believe Brigham, Joseph even said it it all "depended" on the revelation the Lord would give him and he would add to or take away from in order to make more clear certain revelations he had on certain sections of hte Bible. Again, Joseph wasn't "Translating" most of it. He had revelations which he added to it.
So yes or no?

JST adds much-needed context and clarification to the Bible. Knowing how many translations there are of the bible today, and how many languages it filtered through to get where we are today, we have to "translate" it with the gift of wisdom regardless.
I'm guessing you haven't read most of those translations, because I have read many of them and almost all of them match - with a word here or there that is different and almost always it is just personal preference - or using a modern word instead of the archaic form, sometimes I prefer the archaic, sometiems I prefer the modern. The scripture and intent of hte message is almost always the same.

THe idea of how many languages and it causing issues with translation and making the entire bible wrong is verifiably false. We have manuscripts within 50-100 years of hte original written manuscript and many 200 years before the Nicene Council and these manuscripts are spread over a broad spectum of areas and almost all of them match Can you speak spanish or another language? Can you tell me what a word is spanish or the other language is in English? Does that mean you lied to me and the translation is wrong? Once in a while a "hebraism" might get lost, but what is amazing is even in the newer translations as they keep discovering more, it matches and the hebraism just makes it clear which old testament scripture it is referring to- usually it is referring to a psalm or proverb.

The book of Mormon's purpose was the PROVE THE TRUTH of the first. IT was never intended to supplant the Bible or make it seem like the Bible was lesser than. Mormons are really missing out on a plethora of knowledge, but hey, at least they think they know God was a man at some point- who cares that God is looking for a change in the heart- which the New Testament emphasizes over and over again and can only be achieved through submission.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:50 am I'm guessing you haven't read most of those translations, because I have read many of them and almost all of them match - with a word here or there that is different and almost always it is just personal preference - or using a modern word instead of the archaic form, sometimes I prefer the archaic, sometiems I prefer the modern. The scripture and intent of hte message is almost always the same.

THe idea of how many languages and it causing issues with translation and making the entire bible wrong is verifiably false. We have manuscripts within 50-100 years of hte original written manuscript and many 200 years before the Nicene Council and these manuscripts are spread over a broad spectum of areas and almost all of them match Can you speak spanish or another language? Can you tell me what a word is spanish or the other language is in English? Does that mean you lied to me and the translation is wrong? Once in a while a "hebraism" might get lost, but what is amazing is even in the newer translations as they keep discovering more, it matches and the hebraism just makes it clear which old testament scripture it is referring to- usually it is referring to a psalm or proverb.

The book of Mormon's purpose was the PROVE THE TRUTH of the first. IT was never intended to supplant it or make it seem like it was lesser than. Mormons are really missing out on a plethora of knowledge, but hey, at least they think they know God was a man at some point- who cares that God is looking for a change in the heart- which the New Testament emphasizes over and over again and can only be achieved through submission.
Uh, nobody has made the assertion that "the entire bible" is wrong.

The BoM adds much-needed doctrinal clarity to the Bible. It wasn't just a second witness nor was it meant to replace it. Just like the Nemenhah record doesn't replace either of those records. But I would state that it does add much doctrinal clarity, and yes, even add upon the knowledge we have.

Anyhoo, this has been fun. I'll leave this discussion for now.

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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:56 am
John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:50 am I'm guessing you haven't read most of those translations, because I have read many of them and almost all of them match - with a word here or there that is different and almost always it is just personal preference - or using a modern word instead of the archaic form, sometimes I prefer the archaic, sometiems I prefer the modern. The scripture and intent of hte message is almost always the same.

THe idea of how many languages and it causing issues with translation and making the entire bible wrong is verifiably false. We have manuscripts within 50-100 years of hte original written manuscript and many 200 years before the Nicene Council and these manuscripts are spread over a broad spectum of areas and almost all of them match Can you speak spanish or another language? Can you tell me what a word is spanish or the other language is in English? Does that mean you lied to me and the translation is wrong? Once in a while a "hebraism" might get lost, but what is amazing is even in the newer translations as they keep discovering more, it matches and the hebraism just makes it clear which old testament scripture it is referring to- usually it is referring to a psalm or proverb.

The book of Mormon's purpose was the PROVE THE TRUTH of the first. IT was never intended to supplant it or make it seem like it was lesser than. Mormons are really missing out on a plethora of knowledge, but hey, at least they think they know God was a man at some point- who cares that God is looking for a change in the heart- which the New Testament emphasizes over and over again and can only be achieved through submission.
Uh, nobody has made the assertion that "the entire bible" is wrong.

The BoM adds much-needed doctrinal clarity to the Bible. It wasn't just a second witness nor was it meant to replace it. Just like the Nemenhah record doesn't replace either of those records. But I would state that it does add much doctrinal clarity, and yes, even add upon the knowledge we have.

Anyhoo, this has been fun. I'll leave this discussion for now.
Mormon's do all the time with their "Don't trust the bible becaues it has translation issues" So you just don't believe it like you should and treat it as if it is "entirely wrong" because you don't know what to "Trust."
It barely adds much clarity at all. How many times have you read the Bible? It may have additional truths, but clarity - nope. If anything it muddies some of it especially if you look at the BoM and think "ooh I can work my way to heaven by doing everything I must, then God will save me" and you never quite know if you've "done enough" which destroys faith and belief and trsut in God. You ahve to search the Book of Mormon and put it together in way to figure out what "after all you can do means." If the Bible is understood first, it is easier to understand the BoM

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:58 am Mormon's do all the time with their "Don't trust the bible becaues it has translation issues" So you just don't believe it like you should and treat it as if it is "entirely wrong" because you don't know what to "Trust."
It barely adds much clarity at all. How many times have you read the Bible? It may have additional truths, but clarity - nope. If anything it muddies some of it especially if you look at the BoM and think "ooh I can work my way to heaven by doing everything I must, then God will save me" and you never quite know if you've "done enough" which destroys faith and belief and trsut in God. You ahve to search the Book of Mormon and put it together in way to figure out what "after all you can do means." If the Bible is understood first, it is easier to understand the BoM
I'm not "Mormon" btw. You keep saying these phrases that are extreme opinions about certain LDS members. And, like I've repeatedly stated, I don't know anyone who views the bible as "completely wrong." You are taking an extreme position.

Oh, and trust me, the BoM adds plenty of clarity. Maybe you need to study it more. :)

Or you just need to study James and his discourse on faith and works. But I do agree with you that Mormon culture has polluted the intended message of the scriptures.

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John Tavner
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 17th, 2023, 11:06 am
John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 10:58 am Mormon's do all the time with their "Don't trust the bible becaues it has translation issues" So you just don't believe it like you should and treat it as if it is "entirely wrong" because you don't know what to "Trust."
It barely adds much clarity at all. How many times have you read the Bible? It may have additional truths, but clarity - nope. If anything it muddies some of it especially if you look at the BoM and think "ooh I can work my way to heaven by doing everything I must, then God will save me" and you never quite know if you've "done enough" which destroys faith and belief and trsut in God. You ahve to search the Book of Mormon and put it together in way to figure out what "after all you can do means." If the Bible is understood first, it is easier to understand the BoM
I'm not "Mormon" btw. You keep saying these phrases that are extreme opinions about certain LDS members. And, like I've repeatedly stated, I don't know anyone who views the bible as "completely wrong." You are taking an extreme position.

Oh, and trust me, the BoM adds plenty of clarity. Maybe you need to study it more. :)

Or you just need to study James and his discourse on faith and works. But I do agree with you that Mormon culture has polluted the intended message of the scriptures.

WHen I say "mormon" I mean those with LDS Upbringing and/or traditions- I don't care if you attend church or not or your records are in the church. That poisoning leads to a lot of false premises - which can destroy faith long-term. It's why so many LDS become atheistic or agnostic - including family members I have. Until those premises are removed it causes a lot of faith and trust issues with God.

I have studied James and the BoM. Again tradition you are spouting off without understanding the full context because you use James (a mission tactic) along with 2 Nephi "after all you can do" ignoring the rest of hte BoM and the Bible. Perhaps a study of the Bible would help you understand how much is already clear. I see it all the time how poeple make comparisons. Most of the time it just shows me they haven't studied the Bible and are searching for Key words rather than the message.

Yes that is the exact culture pollution I'm talking about, I'm glad we can agree that there is pollution. I suppose we disagree on what that pollution is.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The Nemenhah Records—Thoughts & Impressions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

John Tavner wrote: January 17th, 2023, 11:08 am WHen I say "mormon" I mean those with LDS Upbringing and/or traditions- I don't care if you attend church or not or your records are in the church. That poisoning leads to a lot of false premises - which can destroy faith long-term. It's why so many LDS become atheistic or agnostic - including family members I have. Until those premises are removed it causes a lot of faith and trust issues with God.

I have studied James and the BoM. Again tradition you are spouting off without understanding the full context because you use James (a mission tactic) along with 2 Nephi "after all you can do" ignoring the rest of hte BoM and the Bible. Perhaps a study of the Bible would help you understand how much is already clear. I see it all the time how poeple make comparisons. Most of the time it just shows me they haven't studied the Bible and are searching for Key words rather than the message.

Yes that is the exact culture pollution I'm talking about, I'm glad we can agree that there is pollution. I suppose we disagree on what that pollution is.
Ok, given the assumptions you are making, I'll leave this discussion.

A heart that is broken and contrite, truly converted to Jesus, will follow His gospel. That requires action. His gospel is contained in many canons of scripture.

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