LDS Freedom Forum

It's been a while since posting here...
I'd like to shift the good old conversation about keys to a conversation about doors.

The ultimate test for a key is to check if you can open a door with it !

So let's check some doors.

Huge doors (you may call it Patriarchal priesthood)
JST Genesis 14 : 30-31 every one being ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the seas, to dry up waters, to turn them out of their course; To put at defiance the armies of nations, to divide the earth, to break every band, to stand in the presence of God; to do all things according to his will, according to his command, subdue principalities and powers; and this by the will of the Son of God which was from before the foundation of the world.

Big doors (you may call it Melchisedek priesthood)
d&c 84 22 "see the face of God, even the Father, and live."

Small doors (you may call it Aaronic priesthood)
d&c 84 26 "ministering of angels"

The one who can do such a thing holds the correspond key. It's simple.

Personally, I can't open any of these doors... why ? Because I don't have the corresponding keys/authority/power/authorization or relationship with God. I can do other things such as having a veiled conversation with the Lord. I hear His voice and I can talk to Him. This is already a huge blessing. I'm looking forward to receiving more in the future.

In light of this, it looks like at best I was helding some sort of levitical priesthood while I was a member...

Patriarchal Priesthood is not higher than the Melchizedek Priesthood. Read Joseph’s 27 August 1843 discourse.

aeon wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 6:21 am
In light of this, it looks like at best I was helding some sort of levitical priesthood while I was a member...

What ordinations did you receive?

aeon wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 6:21 am So let's check some doors.

In light of this, it looks like at best I was helding some sort of levitical priesthood while I was a member...

Non-members have done all these things without any priesthood and women have also and they do not hold the priesthood.
The Prophet Joseph Smith saw God the Father and God the Son without holding any priesthood.
The priesthood merely entitles you to rise to these occasions, it does not make them happen.
The important thing is what we do with the priesthood on a daily basis, i.e. are we doing whatever we can to be a blessing to others? Are we following the Savior's example to the best of our ability? Are we willing to lay down our life for Him or are we willing to live our life for Him?
That is what the priesthood is.
Keys, thresholds and doors are important but what our hearts make us do is more important.
If our heart is right with God we can fail and still win.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 7:18 am

aeon wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 6:21 am So let's check some doors.

In light of this, it looks like at best I was helding some sort of levitical priesthood while I was a member...

Non-members have done all these things without any priesthood and women have also and they do not hold the priesthood.
The Prophet Joseph Smith saw God the Father and God the Son without holding any priesthood.
The priesthood merely entitles you to rise to these occasions, it does not make them happen.
The important thing is what we do with the priesthood on a daily basis, i.e. are we doing whatever we can to be a blessing to others? Are we following the Savior's example to the best of our ability? Are we willing to lay down our life for Him or are we willing to live our life for Him?
That is what the priesthood is.
Keys, thresholds and doors are important but what our hearts make us do is more important.
If our heart is right with God we can fail and still win.

The priesthood is described here as stuff all disciples, male and female, should be doing. Not being nit picky, just failing to see anything distinguishing priesthood from faith in your response (Though I agree faith is the actuator).

Just seems like if everyone is able to do these things without any priesthood, then how is being entitled to rise to these occasions help one actually rise to said occasions, if faith is what is required?

Dusty Wanderer wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 10:47 pm
The priesthood is described here as stuff all disciples, male and female, should be doing. Not being nit picky, just failing to see anything distinguishing priesthood from faith in your response (Though I agree faith is the actuator).

Just seems like if everyone is able to do these things without any priesthood, then how is being entitled to rise to these occasions help one actually rise to said occasions, if faith is what is required?

The priesthood is an actual thing. God can give it or not. THIS DOES NOT LIMIT A HUMAN'S ABILITY TO INTERACT WITH GOD EITHER WAY. Note the things I did not mention. Certain functions can only be performed via the authority and powers given through the priesthood, such as ordinations, healing blessings done by virtue of the priesthood, blessing the sacrament, baptism, bestowing the gift of the Holy Ghost, receiving revelation for a ward, stake or the world, etc.
Faith is often the generator, by either or both the bearer and the recipient, in the veracity, legitimacy and result of any priesthood function, but God can set weak faith aside and wholly by His power make the blessing happen due to worthiness (just living the gospel requirements), and this creates stronger faith in Him - it is His power in the end always. I have given and received blessings where neither party had faith/believed it would happen, but it did. That is an eye-opener. That was God doing it despite our weak faith, this is the VIRTUE of HIS priesthood.
Note also, there is no priesthood function that does not involve at least two mortals, the exercise of pure faith has no such specification and God will respond according to the level of faith in every instance when priesthood is not involved. Weak faith can also be overlooked when God is interacting with someone who holds no priesthood if He wants to accomplish some result.
Priesthood is a wonderful thing, it is something that MAN needs, my wife clarified this for me. We were watching a show where someone was complaining about WOMEN not holding the priesthood. I asked my wife if it bothered her that she did not hold the priesthood and she said "You need the priesthood, I don't." It took me a long time before I understood the power AND faith in those words
Priesthood can also be a community blessing, it ties us all together and drives us toward God in those areas where it is honored and prevails in neighborhoods. Just having it on the earth is a great and unique faith building blessing from God.
There are a whole lot of other things I could say about this, and they might make it clearer, but I'll stop here.

I try to be a good Christian but make no claims to be one... however, I would like to point out that while "big things" don't seem to happen a lot of the time with our priesthood, it is amazing what happens when it does.

We had a monster thunderstorm here c. 2018/2019. The biggest I've seen in thirty years. It went on for six hours and I could barely sleep for the lightning flashes and the thunder claps. It was a bad storm and had destroyed a number of trees and even set one or two homes on fire as I later heard. But here's the thing, after hour upon hour of this, I got sick of it, and raised my arm to the square and commanded it to desist in the name of Jesus Christ and by my priesthood. Within five to ten minutes, the storm abated, although it had shown no sign of doing so just before I made the command.

Like I say, i make no great claims for myself and who knows if I could ever repeat this, but I was actually stunned by how effective it was. Sometimes my priesthood doesn't seem to get obvious results but on this occasion it did.

I also encourage all of you with chapel access to discreetly cast out evil spirits from churches, and whatever that might have been brought in by this Covid business or anything else recently.

Niemand wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 8:40 am
It went on for six hours and I could barely sleep for the lightning flashes and the thunder claps. It was a bad storm and had destroyed a number of trees and even set one or two homes on fire as I later heard. But here's the thing, after hour upon hour of this, I got sick of it, and raised my arm to the square and commanded it to desist in the name of Jesus Christ and by my priesthood. Within five to ten minutes, the storm abated, although it had shown no sign of doing so just before I made the command.

Wow, that is interesting. Quite a blessing.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 9:45 am

Niemand wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 8:40 am
It went on for six hours and I could barely sleep for the lightning flashes and the thunder claps. It was a bad storm and had destroyed a number of trees and even set one or two homes on fire as I later heard. But here's the thing, after hour upon hour of this, I got sick of it, and raised my arm to the square and commanded it to desist in the name of Jesus Christ and by my priesthood. Within five to ten minutes, the storm abated, although it had shown no sign of doing so just before I made the command.

Wow, that is interesting. Quite a blessing.

I'm surprised at it myself. I'm the man who gives the sick a blessing and they get worse yet I was able to command a thunder storm to stand down. Totally unexpected and I don't take credit for it. It was obviously the work of God. Maybe up until then no one had thought about praying against it.

Niemand wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 1:41 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 9:45 am

Niemand wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 8:40 am
It went on for six hours and I could barely sleep for the lightning flashes and the thunder claps. It was a bad storm and had destroyed a number of trees and even set one or two homes on fire as I later heard. But here's the thing, after hour upon hour of this, I got sick of it, and raised my arm to the square and commanded it to desist in the name of Jesus Christ and by my priesthood. Within five to ten minutes, the storm abated, although it had shown no sign of doing so just before I made the command.

Wow, that is interesting. Quite a blessing.

I'm surprised at it myself. I'm the man who gives the sick a blessing and they get worse yet I was able to command a thunder storm to stand down. Totally unexpected and I don't take credit for it. It was obviously the work of God. Maybe up until then no one had thought about praying against it.

One of my sons hates giving blessings, but every time he gives me a blessing the Lord gives immediate relief. No telling how this all works to our finite mind.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 1:45 pm

Niemand wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 1:41 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 9:45 am

Niemand wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 8:40 am
It went on for six hours and I could barely sleep for the lightning flashes and the thunder claps. It was a bad storm and had destroyed a number of trees and even set one or two homes on fire as I later heard. But here's the thing, after hour upon hour of this, I got sick of it, and raised my arm to the square and commanded it to desist in the name of Jesus Christ and by my priesthood. Within five to ten minutes, the storm abated, although it had shown no sign of doing so just before I made the command.

Wow, that is interesting. Quite a blessing.

I'm surprised at it myself. I'm the man who gives the sick a blessing and they get worse yet I was able to command a thunder storm to stand down. Totally unexpected and I don't take credit for it. It was obviously the work of God. Maybe up until then no one had thought about praying against it.

One of my sons hates giving blessings, but every time he gives me a blessing the Lord gives immediate relief. No telling how this all works to our finite mind.

I've had that as well. Terrible tooth pain and a missionary's blessing took it away after me trying numerous things.