LDS Freedom Forum

What you are about to read is the sum total of 2 decades worth of spiritual research and I ask that you study out the questions that it will bring to you. For those of you that have never read anything spiritual outside of church material this will probably go right over your head; but I promise that the more you learn and study the topics covered, the more sense it will make and you will see that I've definitely done my homework.

In response to another post of mine, and at the request of another user, I have been asked to write down my thoughts regarding chakras which are the primary nodes of the body's energy system. Over the past twenty years I have racked up a considerable amount of experience meditating which amounts to well over 1000 hours. I grew up outside the church and only a few years ago, was converted and baptized. Before this I was an avid researcher of all things spiritual. I was trained in various acupuncture techniques and mostly studied new age concepts, but also ancient occult and esoteric teachings. This was my spiritual journey, and it eventually led to me to have a mighty change of heart, followed by the dedication of my life to Jesus Christ and then baptism.

Information on the chakras has been widely disseminated online and I will attempt to focus on my practical experience and what I have learned over the course of these years. It is commonly accepted that the chakras are the 7 main energy centers of the body. But less commonly, there are many New Age Guru's on the Internet that also talk about upgrading to the 12 chakra system through spiritual growth and development. Maybe this is true, maybe it isn't, but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter, and so many of these people are just trying to make a name for themselves.

It is better established that we focus on them as the 7 main energetic centers or nodes of the body that run in line from the base of our spine to the crown of our head. There are most likely also hundreds of smaller chakras distributed like a net throughout our body's nervous system. Lesser and greater chakras exist on the Etheric Plane of our multi-dimensional existence while the corresponding components on the physical plane lie in our nervous system. On each of the planes described, we have a corresponding "body" with different aspects, and all together they make up our comprehensive body as a whole. There is a dynamic interconnectedness in our bodies that runs through these different planes and they exist simultaneously. Again, each body contains different aspects of the whole and the higher planes exist outside of our physical senses and normal perceptions.

To recap from my previous post, the most accurate descriptions and sequence of the planes in ascending order are:
1. The Physical plane
2. The Astral plane (encompasses lower and higher spirit planes and then the emotional plane.)
3. The Mental plane (Ideas live forever. Well, actually they become thought-forms and can become an entity unto themselves before returning to us)
4. The Etheric plane (the first and primary plane that Chi Energy is felt on, and is the lowest level of our energy body)
5. The Causal plane
6. The Buddhic plane
7. The Atmic Plane

When the nervous system is physically stimulated it has a resulting effect on the energetic body. Likewise when we receive blockages in our energy body, there is usually a resulting disease manifest in the physical body. I have worked with numerous clairvoyants throughout the years, and many times they have confirmed that these blockages are visible in the human aura. I know that many of you may doubt the existence of these things, and I realize that I have only my experience to testify of, however I have tried to remain as scientific as possible in my studies.

The most talented clairvoyant I have met was a young boy who was about 8 years old at the time. He had grown up in the church, was always very spiritual as a kid, and he would see colors everywhere. Upon asking him to explain in greater detail what he was seeing, he would be able to provide sophisticated explanations what these colors mean, especially in regards to the human body. If he were to stare at your aura for no less than 5 minutes he would be able to provide you with an in depth explanation of all the aches and pains in your body as well as provide a simplified explanation of deeply complex emotional experiences you are currently going through. He would also be able to analyze the effects of essential oils and crystals on your body without any background understanding, and these effects would match up with other literature that I would study. I don't ever remember him being wrong or mistaken throughout the time I worked with him, and he was never really a witness of other spiritual conversations between adults or anything of the sort that would give him all these ideas.

Over my course of work with him which usually involved essential oils, crystals, massage, and acupuncture it readily became apparent to me that in these colors, he was able to see visible energy on the etheric plane in the subject. With a little bit of practice and the right training, I think that we're all able to do this to an extent. I myself, have been able to see rudimentary white light around people most often during fast and testimony meetings when the spirit is strong with them, but this is not something I have dedicated a large amount of my time to. His ability was remarkable though. I have met other people that can see these colors, but I haven't met anyone else that could see them as well as him.

Back to the chakras:
Each chakra has a corresponding color and frequency/note of resonance. Throughout my meditation practice I would routinely imagine the color of the chakra as I'd hear the sound of the note and it's like the chakra would activate and come alive with a tingling sensation of energy. Providing continued breathing brings energy to the chakra to energize it and brings it into balance. Sometimes, this results in thoughts coming to mind and emotions coming to heart as each of the seven chakras has a corresponding role to play in different aspects of our being. For the specifics, This is where I would tell you to reference the other material available on the internet that is easily found.

Meditating in this way will routinely uncover buried emotions, hidden traumas, and other repressed experiences. Occasionally, I would experience the somewhat uncomfortable feeling of clearing an energy blockage. This occurs only after sufficient energy has built up in your body. It typically manifests as an uncomfortable nervous feeling in your limbs or body that can be described as an urge to twitch, or a restless leg sort of feeling. Sometimes these blockages will be small and will be over after a couple twitches, other times they persist and persist, and still seem not be cleared even after a full 30 minute meditation. Sometimes you are able to pinpoint them to a certain area of the body, and other times they are more generalized or throughout the whole body. I presume there would be some correlation to these blockages being visible to a clairvoyant, however I was never never able to confirm this hypothesis.

Energy in the building up of the higher bodies.
There is a universal subtle energy that flows all throughout are world. It has been referred to by Eastern Scholars as Chi or Qui for hundreds of years if not thousands, and it was also documented by a german-american scientist by the name of Wilhelm Reich as Orgone Energy. Reich was also trained as a psychiatrist and he knew that this energy had a sexual and psychological nature as well. A lot of his research matches up exactly with my practical experience that I have just described. The Tantras of the East also have long known the sexual nature of this energy. This energy is the life force, and the provider of vitality that we constantly take in through our breath. During focused meditation as explained above, we can increase this uptake by roughly 5-10x and the result is clearly apparent to anyone with the proper attentiveness. It is presumed that our bodies use some of this energy for normal cellular function and other processes, but this slow and steady usage is much harder to detect through subjective experience. Much more apparent however, is the large amount of energy that is released in males during ejaculation, and females during ovulation. With these examples, it is easy for one to imagine the characteristics of being "full" of energy. We become short tempered, edgy, and easy to "trigger" as these times force us to expand many aspects of ourselves before the energy is released and we can go back to our ways of comfort. To a sensitive observer, this energy is also transferable, subject to the exchange and manipulation of others, especially when offered during willful connection like in the traditional practice of Tantra.

Tantra is a largely unknown and mysterious energetic practice involving sexual intercourse. Although on a simple level it is mostly benign and beneficial even, however I would warn against a severe danger and risk should one choose to pursue a dedicated Tantric practice. There are many schools of thought and practices, however what I have typically seen is that in the beginning practice typically starts with the stimulation and activation of the energy body. Practitioners grow in their capacity- the same way that one may grow through energetic meditation and stimulation of the chakras. But then, advanced practices graduate to a worship of Hindu gods and goddesses most notably Shiva and Shakti. In one manual I was reading, practice culminated with a pretty much daily prayer and sexual ritual for Kundalini activation by these "gods".

Kundalini activation or awakening, AKA- the Eastern teaching of what we know in the church as Translation.
First, a brief note on the energy bodies I outlined above: Research in these areas is anything but a certain science, and many sources across the internet will mix up these names as well as add other planes. For the most part, much of it is inconsequential and not really relevant to our day-to-day experience of life. The overall concept and development of the system however, is extremely relevant to our spiritual development and is comparable to the climbing of Isaiah's Spiritual Ladder.

The growth starts out as we begin becoming aware of our etheric body, our energy system, and our chakras. As we energize these centers, this body becomes more and more developed until eventually it reaches complete development and is free from blockages. This should be a gradual process and if done too early in life it can be disastrous. To give you an idea, in cases of child sexual abuse, it is the root chakra that is awakened in the child prematurely. It doesn't (usually) just go back to sleep and will start a developmental cascade that will continue to cause damage well into young adulthood. Healthy growth of our energetic body is slow and it requires us to integrate many parts of our past that we have left behind. It is said that the bodies are then developed sequentially, so for example- once your etheric body is fully developed and clear from blockage, your energy will then start flowing to the development of your causal body (the next one up).

The esoteric author Alice Bailey talks a lot about these higher energy bodies being developed in many of her books. She speaks about how there is a great trial in the outer life that culminates and coincides with the completion of the body on each plane. It is my hypothesis that completion of these different bodies is akin to "climbing another rung on the ladder", and therefore, what I'm describing here is essentially the inward completion of the ordinances. Just as members of the church may first receive the outward ordinances and go years without the inner fulfillment, so can non-members reach the inner requirements for Spiritual Development and go years, or even a lifetime with never receiving the outward ordinance as performed in the church.

Activating the Kundalini. (Description from Eastern sources, but tell me what it reminds you of...)
From everything I have read and ascertained, activation of the Kundalini is a one-time event for a living being. Once it occurs it cannot be undone, and it is described as a great outpouring of energy as the root chakra is awakened. An endless spring of energy wells up the line of chakras along the spinal cord and central nervous system, intertwining like a serpent as it rises, before expanding at the top crown of the head and pouring down throughout the rest of the body. Interestingly, one Tantra source I read talks about the god Shiva activating the Kundalini for us once we have completed development of our Buddhic body. It then describes being filled with complete bliss, pleasure, and a great out pouring of vitality (though no mention of eternal life). That is, it describes a transformative activation of all bodies thus far developed in the subject.

Somewhere in his work, a Christian esoteric author- Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov speaks about a similar Kundalini activation coming from The Father through Jesus Christ with a few important distinctions. He clearly teaches about 1 plane of existence HIGHER than the Buddhic plane, and refers to it as the Atmic Plane, and he also mentions that the activation will specifically come only at a time of The Father's choosing.

When I first learned about receiving the 2nd comforter and how at that time we are able to request of The Father to be Translated, my mind immediately recognized the parallels in these teachings even though they were years apart. What we are left with then, is the understanding that lesser "gods" (or advanced beings) like Shiva in particular, and presumably Satan and a host of other Dark Angels disobedient to the father, are able and sometimes do, activate and bestow great gifts upon their loyal subjects. Though these "blessings" may contain great power, abilities, and longevity, this premature activation of our Kundalini energy ultimately falls short of what Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will offer us. I received overt and grave warnings in my life not to pursue a Tantric practice and this is part of the reason why I believe that Kundalini activation is a one time event. Though the path of righteousness is longer and progress slower, the end result is unquestionably greater.

Conclusion and Takeaways
Lastly, I have a little bit more to share with what I have really come to learn and understand myself in the last year. I feel like I've had the answer for a long time but it hasn't been until writing this out that I have accepted a crystallized conclusion in my mind. In a large part, this is answering the question- Why do good people and loyal followers of Christ suffer?
I believe the following is true:

1. First, they must answer for the sins of their past.

2. Second, they must answer for the generational iniquities of their family.

3. Third, they begin to carry and transmute the burdens of others when they reach the level in which they can act as proxy saviors. This is the true Christian path that all followers of Christ will arrive at when they continue to offer their lives in consecration to the Lord. We can begin to emulate the Lord as a proxy savior, providing physical deliverance to others as we help them with their burdens. Spiritual salvation, on the other hand is the work of our Savior and him alone. Said otherwise, we will be afflicted by all things in which we deserve. In time, when we persevere through these obstacles, the Lord will continue to afflict us with trials to our faith, but instead of redeeming ourselves, our sufferings will now lighten the burden of others around us. This occurrence will not be readily apparent in our lives but instead, understanding will only come after many trials, through much prayer and continued worship. Thus the Lord consecrates all our afflictions for our gain.

When we are Sanctified in him, he takes the energy expended in our suffering, and uses it as building blocks for our higher level energy bodies. Through all this process it is important for us to remember that he's not a mean God afflicting us for no reason. He is perfect, and his ways are perfect. This is the nail piercing our hand when we expect a firm grasp. Our own failure to achieve sanctification for a given period of time is our own fault and our fault alone; and it is most critical that we withhold placing our blame upon the Lord. Failure to achieve sanctification will result in our "energy blocks" being spent elsewhere, for lack of a better description. Therefore, it is vitally important to continually strive to achieve greater personal purity, and to always obey the commandments.

Let us offer unto him only the purest sacrifice. May we lay the greatest desires of our natural man at His feet. May we ask Him for, and welcome these trials into our lives and for means with which to prove ourselves as loyal servants to Him. We must be able to persevere through even the darkest depression, for surely He will only bestow upon us a resplendent robe in exchange for our downcast spirit.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Chris01 wrote: ↑December 29th, 2022, 9:54 pm Second, they must answer for the generational iniquities of their family.

We have thousands of ancestors. Does that mean that we must answer for all these people?

Even if we take the seven generations thing:
* 2 parents
* 4 grandparents
* 8 greatgrandparents
*16 greatgreatgrandparents
* 32 greatgreatgreatgrandparents
* 64 greatgreatgreatgreatgrandparents
* 128 greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgrandparents

That means we are taking on the iniquities of over two hundred people in that period (unless there is some inbreeding).

And since you say "family", we can surmise that we get to take on all the dirt of our aunts, uncles, cousins, children, nieces, nephews etc. Nice, huh? Especially if your family is massive as many Mormons' are.

Extra "nice", if you are descended from rapists, adulterers and incestuous unions through no fault of your own.

This reeks of the doctrine of Original Sin which the Restored Gospel claimed to have moved past.

Thank God for Christ... I don't want to be lumbered with the sins of dozens of people I never met.

There is also the question of how much some of this relates to Christianity. I'm willing to accept people do have a kind of aura around them but this Buddhist and Hindu stuff, how much?

* FYI, Wilhelm Reich is one of the people who helped spread the ideas which led to the so called sexual revolution in the west... the results of which can be seen all around us now.
* Alice Bailey, prominent Luciferian and occultist.

Chris01 wrote: ↑December 29th, 2022, 9:54 pm What you are about to read is the sum total of 2 decades worth of spiritual research and I ask that you study out the questions that it will bring to you.

Before I joined the church I studied everything I could find on all religions in an attempt, on my own, to figure out which was true. That failed and I had to go to the source to get my answer.
The religions of the "sub-continent" (shall we say) are fascinating and to some extent they make a lot of sense and they have done some good. But the one thing, in my opinion, that they lack is any real transformative power. Now this is my opinion, it's okay if you disagree. But when I see people spending years starving themselves and doing inverted and painful positions, or wandering around as a willful beggar, or encouraging anything you want to do, or living in a sh!thole that is the size of Europe, or taking bloody advantage of each other for centuries in the name of the religion they want to promote (and yes I know fake Christians do that to this day), when I see all that I have to disagree when they loudly proclaim their "religion" to be a success or that it ever was a success. There is no salvation in their religion, no transformative power and there is no indication that devotion to it is in any way spiritually profitable. It is more like being a comic book fan, if reading a comic book makes you calm then you have achieved the highest level of the sub-continent religions.
That is my opinion, it is not meant to impugn, it is just what I see.
If being a practitioner of eternal dharma, or Islam or ten million other things falling and rising is a person's thing, that is okay with me.
Just one minute communing with Heavenly Father has been of more value to me (and has brought the spirit of the love of God into my heart) than sitting around meditating, burning incense and chanting for hours on end.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 7:44 am Just one minute communing with Heavenly Father has been of more value to me (and has brought the spirit of the love of God into my heart) than sitting around meditating, burning incense and chanting for hours on end.

Absolutely, that's been my experience as well.

Niemand wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 6:59 am

We have thousands of ancestors. Does that mean that we must answer for all these people?
....
This reeks of the doctrine of Original Sin which the Restored Gospel claimed to have moved past.

Thank God for Christ... I don't want to be lumbered with the sins of dozens of people I never met.

Good points Niemand. I don't have as much experience with iniquities, but I think the line is drawn not too long after death. I also think iniquities is better defined along the lines as behaviors and patterns we take on and learn from those who are close to us and generally "raise us". These are usually voluntary behaviors that we take on though many times they are subconscious.

Disease is another area a little bit different. I have seen a grandpa's life long disease be transferred to his grandson within a month after his death. Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I think it can clue us in to generally the way these processes work. A lot of this is pre-doctrinal thought. We need to sort through it and the doctrine will eventually come.

Like Craig said, one TINY bit of truth from The Father is worth so much more than a mountain of garbage.

Oh, and Reich was never that prominent to accredit him with so much. He was persecuted and his research was confiscated by the government. I believe he died an early death in financial ruin.

Chris01 wrote: ↑December 29th, 2022, 9:54 pm ...a lot of great stuff

We have a lot of shared experiences. I haven't had any training in acupuncture, but I understand what it accomplishes regarding body energy and unblocking chakras.

It's really nice that someone out there knows about this stuff and sees how all the pieces of it fit into the gospel.

On point I would like to tease out a little is suffering for generational sins - My understanding on that is that it is correct in many ways but maybe not completely so.

I do not think I pay a direct price for the sins of my ancestors.

I do think I pay an indirect price because I am the sum of my ancestors for both good and bad, and this is not only purely biological but also to an extent I am the sum of their deeds, and I get both the blessings and the disadvantages that come with that.

I also believe in some form of MMP (multiple mortal probations) and I do believe there is a karmic debt that eventually needs to be suffered for.

I appreciate you posting this. I know a lot of people consider it all new age garbage (which definitely exists) but often throw the baby out with the bath water.

On a side note I think that the chakras associate with the steps of Jacob's ladder, I wrote a blog about how the chakras also map to some extent to the levels of Maslow's Hierarchy - not perfectly but I think Maslow kind of looked at the same principles thru a scientific lens and the Hindus looked at the same "facts" and described them thru an esoteric lens, which I think is pretty awesome.

You may be interested in the Law of One (which I don't necessarily believe the part about them being channeled from the god Ra) but largely is yet another way to look at some of these same principles. Aaron Abke has a series of YouTube videos that I found well done and helpful. I'll link the beginning of that series below. I don't think Aaron gets it all right by any means, but he has useful insights, and he does make it entertaining.

I also think that Carl Gustav Jung brings a lot to the table in his Red Book and Black Books.

The Law of One video 001 Here is a video that is first of a series on Jung's Red Book which I also thought was great

It’s all very interesting.

“When I first learned about receiving the 2nd comforter and how at that time we are able to request of The Father to be Translated, my mind immediately recognized the parallels in these teachings even though they were years apart.”

Who told you that we can request to be translated? Oh, I just read it again and I think what you’re saying is that when you receive Christ as the second comforter, he will then ask you what you want and at that time you can ask to be translated. Is that what you’re saying? Anyway, I was curious where you heard that if you don’t mind sharing. I have an idea, but I don’t know if it’s correct.


I’m open to a lot of this stuff. Some stuff I’m not sure about. I have a lot to learn, I’m sure.
I once saw a video on YouTube of a woman experiencing the kundalini rising. It was odd and gave off a vibe that she was being possessed. It’s all so interesting though. I’m in a Joe Dispenza group on Facebook and have read some interesting things in there. I have not actually done any of his meditations or much meditating at all, except once at a weekend retreat we meditated every day and I found it to be somewhat beneficial. But this woman posted in the Joe Dispenza group such an awesome experience. I am going to copy and paste it below.

“A year ago my world changed in one instant. I had no idea what I had experienced or what in the world was going on. I had done a meditation on my root chakra cause I knew that's where needed attention. My meditation was good but uneventful....until I laid down in bed and something erupted from my pelvis and worked it's way up my torso and to my throat. Felt electrical, almost shocking but not painful. Then an a bomb of white light went off in my head and everything quieted down. I have a crazy understanding of energy and some abilities that shown up at the same time as well. I had a spirit guide appear at this time that I call "Chief". He helped me learn to ground myself first...then we started healing me. It's been the wildest last year, I trusted the process. I detoxed myself and purged out all not needed by a fasting period he put me through. Seemed like forever but lasted about 6 months were my food was very limited, water mainly. My husband was very concerned for me cause i was transforming before his eyes. And shred through 50 pounds in no time. My Chief would show me what my cells were doing at times and when I would have high vibrational food infront of me, he'd show my cells doing happy dances is what I called it. In that 6 months I noticed my heart, which I've had failed surgeries on. Started running smoothly, my husband noticed too, cause usually 2 to 3 times a week I would have palpitations that would take my breath away. I told my husband...you gonna think I'm crazy but I believe I'm healing myself! After we corrected my heart....my next was my spine and pelvis. 5 herniated disc's, nerve damage to right leg. I had 2 serpents show up and start teaching me how to move and release energy up and down my spine. It's a very intuitive process but I thought I was crazy that I could possibly heal myself til I found Rewired on Gaia Tv. Everything he speaks about is true! And made me feel not so crazy. Our journey might not all be the same but our ability to heal ourselves is no joke. This energy we carry is amazing and can do even more amazing things than imagined also just found out Dr Joe is from my now hometown we need more people to understand our own healing power and take control back! I'm still learning and healing. Trust the process and believe! Gratitude has been a huge key as well! So excited to find others that can to relate to!“


So it definitely sounds like the kundalini rising happened to her. And then the part about the serpents was kind of crazy. I told my husband about it and asked him what he thought about it and he said since she’s healing herself it’s most likely from God, not from the devil. I tend to agree with that. I would really love to heal myself.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 11:42 am It’s all very interesting.

“When I first learned about receiving the 2nd comforter and how at that time we are able to request of The Father to be Translated, my mind immediately recognized the parallels in these teachings even though they were years apart.”

Who told you that we can request to be translated? Oh, I just read it again and I think what you’re saying is that when you receive Christ as the second comforter, he will then ask you what you want and at that time you can ask to be translated. Is that what you’re saying? Anyway, I was curious where you heard that if you don’t mind sharing. I have an idea, but I don’t know if it’s correct.


I’m open to a lot of this stuff. Some stuff I’m not sure about. I have a lot to learn, I’m sure.
I once saw a video on YouTube of a woman experiencing the kundalini rising. It was odd and gave off a vibe that she was being possessed. It’s all so interesting though. I’m in a Joe Dispenza group on Facebook and have read some interesting things in there. I have not actually done any of his meditations or much meditating at all, except once at a weekend retreat we meditated every day and I found it to be somewhat beneficial. But this woman posted in the Joe Dispenza group such an awesome experience. I am going to copy and paste it below.

“A year ago my world changed in one instant. I had no idea what I had experienced or what in the world was going on. I had done a meditation on my root chakra cause I knew that's where needed attention. My meditation was good but uneventful....until I laid down in bed and something erupted from my pelvis and worked it's way up my torso and to my throat. Felt electrical, almost shocking but not painful. Then an a bomb of white light went off in my head and everything quieted down. I have a crazy understanding of energy and some abilities that shown up at the same time as well. I had a spirit guide appear at this time that I call "Chief". He helped me learn to ground myself first...then we started healing me. It's been the wildest last year, I trusted the process. I detoxed myself and purged out all not needed by a fasting period he put me through. Seemed like forever but lasted about 6 months were my food was very limited, water mainly. My husband was very concerned for me cause i was transforming before his eyes. And shred through 50 pounds in no time. My Chief would show me what my cells were doing at times and when I would have high vibrational food infront of me, he'd show my cells doing happy dances is what I called it. In that 6 months I noticed my heart, which I've had failed surgeries on. Started running smoothly, my husband noticed too, cause usually 2 to 3 times a week I would have palpitations that would take my breath away. I told my husband...you gonna think I'm crazy but I believe I'm healing myself! After we corrected my heart....my next was my spine and pelvis. 5 herniated disc's, nerve damage to right leg. I had 2 serpents show up and start teaching me how to move and release energy up and down my spine. It's a very intuitive process but I thought I was crazy that I could possibly heal myself til I found Rewired on Gaia Tv. Everything he speaks about is true! And made me feel not so crazy. Our journey might not all be the same but our ability to heal ourselves is no joke. This energy we carry is amazing and can do even more amazing things than imagined also just found out Dr Joe is from my now hometown we need more people to understand our own healing power and take control back! I'm still learning and healing. Trust the process and believe! Gratitude has been a huge key as well! So excited to find others that can to relate to!“


So it definitely sounds like the kundalini rising happened to her. And then the part about the serpents was kind of crazy. I told my husband about it and asked him what he thought about it and he said since she’s healing herself it’s most likely from God, not from the devil. I tend to agree with that. I would really love to heal myself.

Wooooooooow , that's incredible

When I went through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, it went all through my body and it seemed to extend all around me. The force was much more concentrated in my heart. I told an old friend about the experience, who had been immersed in Eastern teachings and he said, The heart chakra is about spiritual enlightenment.
When I joined the church, and I described the experience to a few people, I thought someone could explain to me what it was that I experienced. They always gave me a blank look. It seemed to me that they had not done their homework because they couldn't tell me what that was.
When I got baptized, I was still on a spiritual high. I lived far out in the country. As I was driving to town one day, the highway straightened out along the ocean and a man came into view. He had long blond hair and a beard, was wearing a long robe and was walking down the center of the highway. My first thought was, "Wow, this guy has faith" (faith that no one would run him over, but faith is good). I pulled onto the shoulder and said to him, "Hey, where you going dressed like that?" He said to me, in all seriousness, "to heaven, brother", so I told him, "Then, jump in and I'll take you part way". I did a U-turn and let him in. I listened to what he had to say then offered him a Book of Mormon. He wouldn't take it. I thought that people who were spiritual would be attracted the the BoM.
I'm rambling, but that's how I am, sometimes.

HeberC wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 1:01 pm When I went through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, it went all through my body and it seemed to extend all around me. The force was much more concentrated in my heart. I told an old friend about the experience, who had been immersed in Eastern teachings and he said, The heart chakra is about spiritual enlightenment.
When I joined the church, and I described the experience to a few people, I thought someone could explain to me what it was that I experienced. They always gave me a blank look. It seemed to me that they had not done their homework because they couldn't tell me what that was.
When I got baptized, I was still on a spiritual high. I lived far out in the country. As I was driving to town one day, the highway straightened out along the ocean and a man came into view. He had long blond hair and a beard, was wearing a long robe and was walking down the center of the highway. My first thought was, "Wow, this guy has faith" (faith that no one would run him over, but faith is good). I pulled onto the shoulder and said to him, "Hey, where you going dressed like that?" He said to me, in all seriousness, "to heaven, brother", so I told him, "Then, jump in and I'll take you part way". I did a U-turn and let him in. I listened to what he had to say then offered him a Book of Mormon. He wouldn't take it. I thought that people who were spiritual would be attracted the the BoM.
I'm rambling, but that's how I am, sometimes.

Awesome experiences hermano, I love that you shared them with us

There are some interesting things about some of this "new age" stuff.

I knew a woman that practiced Reiki that I am convinced to this day was possessed. I knew another lady that did aromatherapy which I thought was nonsense, but eventually I had her do a session and I think she actually had some useful knowledge that helped me work thru some things. In hindsight I would not have someone do aromatherapy on me that I did not know and trust VERY well. At the time, I didn't know this lady that well but I did it because I didn't really take it seriously. My advice is even if you don't take things seriously you should be careful.

you can for sure get lead down some dark side paths, even with the best of intentions. there is some quote about good intentions and the road that is paved with them....

There is also a risk vs. reward I suppose we are not intended to grow in our safe little cocoons and not have to exert and struggle and face challenges and even have our failures.

I have mediated and prayed for many, many hours (perhaps 20,000). I have gained many insights into the eternities. I don't find this accurate for me. I suppose others need a place to start. But as stated beware as it seems some structure that is good for one is bad or perhaps dark for someone else. People are at different levels. I find it best to read the scriptures or discussions of the scriptures (even those on LDS FF) and focus on that and on god and his knowledge using what we know from the prophets (especially JS) as a framework and not focus on the other stuff that doesn't seem to lead to god. I don't buy that we can get in tune with ourselves if we don't know who we are and we cannot know who we are until we know who god is. Much more inner stuff without the external context would likely lead many down the wrong paths. IMO. So, not negative but not how I feel the Lord wants us to seek inner peace. IMO.

I am cautious about Reiki, too. There are different schools of Reiki. I have seen many people practice without caution and many people seem to not be aware of the fact that you have to set up protections for yourself before you start.

On the other hand, when I was totally disabled and nothing would work, I was blessed to have an old Japanese man do Reiki on me. He was extraordinarily spiritual and gifted.

When I worked on horses, many of our students were skilled in Reiki. Our teacher did not like anyone putting energy into him. He was particularly offended when someone put energy in him without his permission. The horses we worked on considered Reiki invasive. They tolerated it because horses are very tolerant, but the work we were trained to do was different. We used gentle procedures that triggered the horses' own energy to heal themselves. The horses were always pleasantly surprised and grateful because they had come to realize that most humans are control freaks and our modality was not. The first reaction a horse had always looked like, "Wow, what did you just do? Let me see your hands".

TheDuke wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 2:05 pm I have mediated and prayed for many, many hours (perhaps 20,000). I have gained many insights into the eternities. I don't find this accurate for me. I suppose others need a place to start. But as stated beware as it seems some structure that is good for one is bad or perhaps dark for someone else. People are at different levels. I find it best to read the scriptures or discussions of the scriptures (even those on LDS FF) and focus on that and on god and his knowledge using what we know from the prophets (especially JS) as a framework and not focus on the other stuff that doesn't seem to lead to god. I don't buy that we can get in tune with ourselves if we don't know who we are and we cannot know who we are until we know who god is. Much more inner stuff without the external context would likely lead many down the wrong paths. IMO. So, not negative but not how I feel the Lord wants us to seek inner peace. IMO.

I get this, and as in almost anything it has a lot to do with mindset.

There is worlds of information on an eternal truth such as opposition in all things in Taoism. I'd never convert to Taoism or worship any other god, but I am not sure it is correct to say I worship LDS's God either, since they like everyone else truly know so little. Useful and even necessary salvation stuff, but typical LDS know only a fraction of a fraction of God. These other paths can bolster that, but of course direct from the source is the most accurate and useful. Which is what certain forms of meditation are intended for. And some of these Eastern practices can teach you things about meditation which frankly aren't available in the correlated materials.

HeberC wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 2:38 pm I am cautious about Reiki, too. There are different schools of Reiki. I have seen many people practice without caution and many people seem to not be aware of the fact that you have to set up protections for yourself before you start.

On the other hand, when I was totally disabled and nothing would work, I was blessed to have an old Japanese man do Reiki on me. He was extraordinarily spiritual and gifted.

When I worked on horses, many of our students were skilled in Reiki. Our teacher did not like anyone putting energy into him. He was particularly offended when someone put energy in him without his permission. The horses we worked on considered Reiki invasive. They tolerated it because horses are very tolerant, but the work we were trained to do was different. We used gentle procedures that triggered the horses' own energy to heal themselves. The horses were always pleasantly surprised and grateful because they had come to realize that most humans are control freaks and our modality was not. The first reaction a horse had always looked like, "Wow, what did you just do? Let me see your hands".

This is an honest question, because I've been curious about this kind of thing before, but always too nervous to really try anything. If you need to take precautions and set up protections before doing something, then is it really something anyone should be doing? Doesn't that sound like dabbling into the spiritual realm, contacting spirits and hoping you don't end up entertaining the demonic realm?

Taking precautions is just good sense. Different Reiki school students, some of them, are deeply divided in their opinions. This is what they have told me.

In everything we do, we should take precautions. This is just common sense. We are surrounded in a sea of spirit, intelligence and energy. Spiritual entities are all around us but I get what you're saying... I wouldn't try to contact spirits directly, although they have never frightened me.

My faith in Jesus Christ has become stronger. I have given my life to His will. I really want to see the Millennium, but if it His will that I die, I'm good with that. On the other hand, if someone tries to take me out, what happens to them may be out of my hands but I'm still under His will.

I do take precautions in my life because the Test is ongoing. I have little to no fear, so the adversary doesn't have that tool. I'm not curious about him and I don't want to give him anything. I used to have less confidence in Christ, like if I were in a bad situation, would he be looking the other way, then say to me, "oops, I wasn't paying attention" but He isn't like that. Time has no effect on Him and He is powerful and loving. He will help everyone, not just the ones who go to church or have a recommend. I believe this because of what He told me, himself.

There are all kinds of interesting distractions we experience while here but I reset several times a day and remember that my priority is the Test. Some of these distractions are actually useful and so are our experiences. I don't live dangerously, like I used to, but I am mindful of sinning against the Holy Ghost and the related thing of being controlled by fear and giving in to stupidity. I am wary of rationalization, intellectualizing, and being opinionated because they oppose intelligence and the Holy Ghost.

And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost.
And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, clinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the fruit of the tree.
And after they had tasted of the fruit they were ashamed, because of those that were scoffing at them; and they fell away into forbidden paths and were lost.....”

....And he also saw other multitudes feeling their way towards that great and spacious building. And it came to pass that many were drowned in the depths of the fountain; and many were lost from his view, wandering in strange roads.

The BofM spells it out very plain and simple. I think all of the above subjects are just that, "wandering in strange paths" wherein if person does not correct themselves, they will do just that, "fall away into forbidden paths", "drowned into the depths of the fountain", "wandering in strange roads".

HeberC wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 12:51 am Taking precautions is just good sense. Different Reiki school students, some of them, are deeply divided in their opinions. This is what they have told me.

In everything we do, we should take precautions. This is just common sense. We are surrounded in a sea of spirit, intelligence and energy. Spiritual entities are all around us but I get what you're saying... I wouldn't try to contact spirits directly, although they have never frightened me.

My faith in Jesus Christ has become stronger. I have given my life to His will. I really want to see the Millennium, but if it His will that I die, I'm good with that. On the other hand, if someone tries to take me out, what happens to them may be out of my hands but I'm still under His will.

I do take precautions in my life because the Test is ongoing. I have little to no fear, so the adversary doesn't have that tool. I'm not curious about him and I don't want to give him anything. I used to have less confidence in Christ, like if I were in a bad situation, would he be looking the other way, then say to me, "oops, I wasn't paying attention" but He isn't like that. Time has no effect on Him and He is powerful and loving. He will help everyone, not just the ones who go to church or have a recommend. I believe this because of what He told me, himself.

There are all kinds of interesting distractions we experience while here but I reset several times a day and remember that my priority is the Test. Some of these distractions are actually useful and so are our experiences. I don't live dangerously, like I used to, but I am mindful of sinning against the Holy Ghost and the related thing of being controlled by fear and giving in to stupidity. I am wary of rationalization, intellectualizing, and being opinionated because they oppose intelligence and the Holy Ghost.

Last time someone did "reiki" on me, against my will, he gave me sore knees. It was the first real trouble I'd had with them.

Chris01 wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 8:20 am Oh, and Reich was never that prominent to accredit him with so much. He was persecuted and his research was confiscated by the government. I believe he died an early death in financial ruin.

Wilhelm Reich is indirectly influential on a lot of people, particularly via pop culture. He is mainly remembered for his orgone theory, but the word "orgone" is relared to "orgasm" so there is a natural link between the two. He is definitely one of the early forerunners of the 1960s "sexual revolution". The others would be Havelock Ellis, and of course, Freud.

Orgone energy is like much of Reich's ideas, a mixture of bonkers and brilliant. Some of it is total moonbattery and some of it seems to have some merit. Which is which is not entirely clear. it relates a lot to eastern notions of chi/qi and tao.

Quite a good film on Wilhelm Reich here (1 hr 40). There is some German early on, but the majority of the film is in English and after he arrives in America it is entirely in English.

There is a difference between a detour and a distraction. A detour would be when you leave the straight and narrow path. The distractions are going to be there no matter what you do.

simpleton wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 1:39 am And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost.
And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, clinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the fruit of the tree.
And after they had tasted of the fruit they were ashamed, because of those that were scoffing at them; and they fell away into forbidden paths and were lost.....”

....And he also saw other multitudes feeling their way towards that great and spacious building. And it came to pass that many were drowned in the depths of the fountain; and many were lost from his view, wandering in strange roads.

The BofM spells it out very plain and simple. I think all of the above subjects are just that, "wandering in strange paths" wherein if person does not correct themselves, they will do just that, "fall away into forbidden paths", "drowned into the depths of the fountain", "wandering in strange roads".

There have been discussions on these very forums where people took the position that you should not seek personal revelation because you ran the risk of being deceived by a false spirit, and therefore you should just listen to the prophet and never try to progress beyond that.

If you think the occult is making pentagrams and reciting incantations and so forth, you should definitely avoid the occult.

If you understand that the Apocalypse of John is very much about the occult, if you even understand what apocalypse means or what occult means, if you understand that the truth of pharmaceuticals = sorcery = occultED knowledge, then you should learn everything about the truth that has been occultED from you as quickly, as diligently, as you can.

There are save two churches only. How to easily discern between them is occult knowledge, which I can tell you in two sentences. If you know the answer already, then it is no longer occult knowledge for you.

Chris01 wrote: ↑December 29th, 2022, 9:54 pm... I grew up outside the church and only a few years ago, was converted and baptized. Before this I was an avid researcher of all things spiritual…

To recap from my previous post, the most accurate descriptions and sequence of the planes in ascending order are:
1. The Physical plane
2. The Astral plane (encompasses lower and higher spirit planes and then the emotional plane.)
3. The Mental plane (Ideas live forever. Well, actually they become thought-forms and can become an entity unto themselves before returning to us)
4. The Etheric plane (the first and primary plane that Chi Energy is felt on, and is the lowest level of our energy body)
5. The Causal plane
6. The Buddhic plane
7. The Atmic Plane

... The most talented clairvoyant I have met was a young boy who was about 8 years old at the time. He had grown up in the church, was always very spiritual as a kid, and he would see colors everywhere. Upon asking him to explain in greater detail what he was seeing, he would be able to provide sophisticated explanations what these colors mean, especially in regards to the human body. If he were to stare at your aura for no less than 5 minutes he would be able to provide you with an in depth explanation of all the aches and pains in your body as well as provide a simplified explanation of deeply complex emotional experiences you are currently going through. He would also be able to analyze the effects of essential oils and crystals on your body without any background understanding, and these effects would match up with other literature that I would study…

Over my course of work with him which usually involved essential oils, crystals, massage, and acupuncture it readily became apparent to me that in these colors, he was able to see visible energy on the etheric plane in the subject…

... Providing continued breathing brings energy to the chakra to energize it and brings it into balance. Sometimes, this results in thoughts coming to mind and emotions coming to heart as each of the seven chakras has a corresponding role to play in different aspects of our being. …
Meditating in this way will routinely uncover buried emotions, hidden traumas, and other repressed experiences.

... But then, advanced practices graduate to a worship of Hindu gods and goddesses most notably Shiva and Shakti. In one manual I was reading, practice culminated with a pretty much daily prayer and sexual ritual for Kundalini activation by these "gods".

Kundalini activation or awakening, AKA- the Eastern teaching of what we know in the church as Translation.
First, a brief note on the energy bodies I outlined above: Research in these areas is anything but a certain science, and many sources across the internet will mix up these names as well as add other planes. For the most part, much of it is inconsequential and not really relevant to our day-to-day experience of life. The overall concept and development of the system however, is extremely relevant to our spiritual development and is comparable to the climbing of Isaiah's Spiritual Ladder.

The growth starts out as we begin becoming aware of our etheric body, our energy system, and our chakras. As we energize these centers, this body becomes more and more developed until eventually it reaches complete development and is free from blockages. This should be a gradual process and if done too early in life it can be disastrous. To give you an idea, in cases of child sexual abuse, it is the root chakra that is awakened in the child prematurely. It doesn't (usually) just go back to sleep and will start a developmental cascade that will continue to cause damage well into young adulthood. Healthy growth of our energetic body is slow and it requires us to integrate many parts of our past that we have left behind. It is said that the bodies are then developed sequentially, so for example- once your etheric body is fully developed and clear from blockage, your energy will then start flowing to the development of your causal body (the next one up).

… It is my hypothesis that completion of these different bodies is akin to "climbing another rung on the ladder", and therefore, what I'm describing here is essentially the inward completion of the ordinances.…

… Christian esoteric author- Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov speaks about a similar Kundalini activation coming from The Father through Jesus Christ with a few important distinctions. He clearly teaches about 1 plane of existence HIGHER than the Buddhic plane, and refers to it as the Atmic Plane, and he also mentions that the activation will specifically come only at a time of The Father's choosing.

When I first learned about receiving the 2nd comforter and how at that time we are able to request of The Father to be Translated, my mind immediately recognized the parallels in these teachings even though they were years apart. What we are left with then, is the understanding that lesser "gods" (or advanced beings) like Shiva in particular, and presumably Satan and a host of other Dark Angels disobedient to the father, are able and sometimes do, activate and bestow great gifts upon their loyal subjects. Though these "blessings" may contain great power, abilities, and longevity, this premature activation of our Kundalini energy ultimately falls short of what Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will offer us. I received overt and grave warnings in my life not to pursue a Tantric practice…

…Why do good people and loyal followers of Christ suffer?
I believe the following is true:

1. First, they must answer for the sins of their past.

2. Second, they must answer for the generational iniquities of their family.

3. Third, they begin to carry and transmute the burdens of others when they reach the level in which they can act as proxy saviors. This is the true Christian path that all followers of Christ will arrive at when they continue to offer their lives in consecration to the Lord. We can begin to emulate the Lord as a proxy savior, providing physical deliverance to others as we help them with their burdens. Spiritual salvation, on the other hand is the work of our Savior and him alone. Said otherwise, we will be afflicted by all things in which we deserve. In time, when we persevere through these obstacles, the Lord will continue to afflict us with trials to our faith, but instead of redeeming ourselves, our sufferings will now lighten the burden of others around us. This occurrence will not be readily apparent in our lives but instead, understanding will only come after many trials, through much prayer and continued worship. Thus the Lord consecrates all our afflictions for our gain.

When we are Sanctified in him, he takes the energy expended in our suffering, and uses it as building blocks for our higher level energy bodies. Through all this process it is important for us to remember that he's not a mean God afflicting us for no reason. He is perfect, and his ways are perfect...

Wow! Thanks, Chris. I may have issue with some, but a lot of what you shared resonated. I admire how you hungered and thirsted after truth - wherever it was found. An lds friend once shamed me for that - she thought I should just limit my studies to lds-approved stuff. In a way, ignorance is bliss, but it’s also the root of evil & suffering.

I’m curious about the 8-year old boy - were his parents around? Kind of concerning, especially in this lds climate. Hope he’s ok.

The planes or realms interest me because I feel like I’m getting into unchartered territory & could use a little guidance. Of course “the kingdom/realm of God is within you,” me & each. So I imagine there is no “1 size fits all” but each is so unique. Eg., affirmation preprogrammed apps may be helpful &/or harmful because it’s like just blindly going to a pharmacy & picking out whatever meds you see first. Still, it’s good to get a general understanding or internal road map.

How is the emotional/Astral plane lower than the thought/Mental plane? I guess the amygadala/emotion part of the brain develops before cognitive… & I suppose we have more choice over thoughts than feelings. But feelings seem most powerful - especially considering placebo/nocebo effects.

Previously, I shared…
I believe scriptures are meant to be likened to us within, spiritually.
I Cor. 2:16 - "we have the mind of Christ"
Phil. 2:5 - "have this mind in you which was also in Christ Jesus"
Matt 13:34 "...without a parable spake he not unto them"
Here's a possible interpretation of parts of Revelations 6... Some terms I learned from Putting on the Mind of Christ by Jim Marion ( - who I disagree with in some ways but see value in this theory of development)...

* 1st seal, a crown is given - birth/life - Archaic & Magical Consciousness
* 2nd seal, a sword is given - ability to discern good from evil - Mythic Consciousness
* 3rd seal, balances are had - questioning myths - Rational Consciousness level
* 4th seal - power was given - can see many perspectives - Vision-Logic Consciousness
* 5th seal - Shown souls who were slain for the word of God - fears conquered for love - Psychic/Spirit Consciousness
* 6th seal - earthquakes, sun black, stars fall - see our imperfections "bursts our egotistical bubble" - Dark night of the senses
* 7th seal - silence, then "all hell breaks loose" with wars & plagues - Confronting "feelings buried alive"- Dark Night/Confronting Shadow Self
* Christ reigns - Spiritual union with God, Our Creators - Christ Consciousness

Personally, I don't think we just go up these stages like a ladder. I think, they are more interconnected. Still, I think Marion helped give a spiritual map for Christians & even explained how Jesus' life shows these steps we are to take spiritually... from birth to death & his resurrection.

It’s a lot to consider - but as you mentioned, basically, “line upon line.” Breath makes sense as a type of bridge between physical, emotional, mental & spiritual. Plus it helps us chill out & make it through ok. It seems like once you get to the last of the mental-ish realms, well, there just aren’t words for it as there were before. Yet, thinking/discerning is more important than ever! Challenging paradoxes!

Hinduism definitely has truth, & is what Judaism & Christianity are significantly based on. Krishna born from divine conception, his foster parents were taxed, he was considered redeemer etc. 1 of the Ancient Greek philosophers noted how Judaic prophets/ideas were reclothed Hindu gods. Yoga helped me learn how to breathe through stress & how healing & powerful meditation can be. Plus my angelic dogs are probably Hindu (downward dog etc).

While I believe in 1 Highest God, I see how helpful polytheism could be. Like Catholics call on 1 saint for a guardian, another for mercy, 1 for generosity etc. Like divine yellow pages. But I could also see in this ongoing spiritual battle, how less godly - even evil - spirits could sneak in.

I have an issue with the term, “2nd comforter.” Maybe I’m missing something but in all the talk of that on this forum, I see it as one of those other spirits that sneaks in to deceive & mislead. It seems a big part of Chad & Lori Daybell’s thinking that culminated in multiple murders. “By their fruits, ye shall know them.” For most, it’s probably more like just new & improved dogma. Personally, I don’t believe in just 1 or 2 spiritual experiences but I believe in being spiritually born again & again… ideally, until we die & even then.

So refreshing that you “likened” the parable of Christ to us! It’s definitely meatier ideas that would be indigestible to some, & maybe even harmful if misapplied. But I see the great example of Christ teaching us to follow him in repenting of our own ignor-ance/sins, & then seeing how we have inherited or learned familial & societal problems. Do we have the response-ability to handle it - or are we going to let the ignorance/sin keep cycling?

Some (including me!) would argue, “But it isn’t fair! Why should I suffer for others’ evil?” And it isn’t fair. Life isn’t fair - sometimes for my advantage & disadvantage. This is why innocent Jesus being unjustly killed resonates with many. Who will turn the other cheek & “forgive them,” realizing ignorance as the cause, “for they know not what they do.” Awareness - refusing to ignore - & doing something about it - may be how we follow Christ, in a nutshell. And though it can feel sacrificial among other unpleasant experiences, God has a way of using all that for our good.