Provenance and clearification on "Elders saving the constitution ?

[WikiUp]

I've seen it someplace (perhaps in a thread on LDSFF), but now cannot find the origin or attribution to the claim that the Elders of the Church will save the constitution.

I'm aware Joseph Smith made a statement on this topic, but it seems more nuanced than the Elders saving the constitution.

Anyone have some reference or background on this concept?

[Joan7]

I have a full binder of quotes made on the Elders saving the Constitution. I can't get to it tonight. I will try tomorrow.

[Original_Intent]

I've seen it someplace (perhaps in a thread on LDSFF), but now cannot find the origin or attribution to the claim that the Elders of the Church will save the constitution.

I'm aware Joseph Smith made a statement on this topic, but it seems more nuanced than the Elders saving the constitution.

Anyone have some reference or background on this concept?

Like Joan7 said, there are many, and I think Ezra Taft Benson said Constitution will not be saved in Washington D.C.

[cyclOps]

Ezra Taft Benson, October 1987

“I have faith that the Constitution will be saved as prophesied by Joseph Smith. It will be saved by the righteous citizens of this nation who love and cherish freedom. It will be saved by enlightened members of this Church—among others—men and women who understand and abide the principles of the Constitution.”

[cyclOps]

I was going to post a few quotes, but there are too many. Here is a link which includes many:

https://josephsmithfoundation.org/faqs/ ... ttom-1-106

[Generic User]

I've seen it someplace (perhaps in a thread on LDSFF), but now cannot find the origin or attribution to the claim that the Elders of the Church will save the constitution.

I'm aware Joseph Smith made a statement on this topic, but it seems more nuanced than the Elders saving the constitution.

Anyone have some reference or background on this concept?

It is EXTREMELY COMMON that it is quoted as unconditional, especially by General Authorities. But that's the missing nuace. It was originally said as "if the constitution is to be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this church." not "it will be saved without question by the elders of this church". It was always conditional and its been taught otherwise.

"It is said that brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, and rescue it, and save it. This may be so; but I do not recollect that he said exactly so. I believe he said something like this–that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he, If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it."
**Journal of Discourses, Orson Hyde 6:23, History of the Church 7:382**


"But many of the prophecies referring to America's preservation are conditional. That is, if we do our duty we can be preserved, and if not, then we shall be destroyed. This means that a good deal of the responsibility lies with the Priesthood of this Church as to what happens to America and as to how much tragedy can be avoided if we do act now. And now as the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively it is simply this: "Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution. This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are "compelled in all things.' Maybe the Lord will never Set up a specific Church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set up one at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet, for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe. The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the side-lines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be "commanded in all things,' used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle "in a good cause' and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom' 's cause. 2 Years ago Elder Joseph F Merrill of the Council of the Twelve encouraged the members of the Church to join right-to-work leagues and President Heber J. Grant concurred. For our day President David O. McKay has called communism the greatest threat to the Church, and it is certainly the greatest Mortal threat this country has ever faced. What are you doing to fight it? Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and world-wide mission. The war in heaven is raging on earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?
"Verily I say, men should their be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness, For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves." (D&C 58:27-28

**Ezra Taft Benson
An Enemy Hath Done This pg 278-279**

[blitzinstripes]

Agree. Far too many quote this out of context, and conveniently ignore the IF's. Saving the Constitution is FAR from a guarantee, and I believe we grow further from that prospect and closer to our utter destruction, with each passing day.

[Luke]

Ezra Taft Benson, October 1987

“I have faith that the Constitution will be saved as prophesied by Joseph Smith. It will be saved by the righteous citizens of this nation who love and cherish freedom. It will be saved by enlightened members of this Church—among others—men and women who understand and abide the principles of the Constitution.”

Hahaha in the official report they omit his comment “But it will not be saved in Washington”.

[marc]

I've seen it someplace (perhaps in a thread on LDSFF), but now cannot find the origin or attribution to the claim that the Elders of the Church will save the constitution.

I'm aware Joseph Smith made a statement on this topic, but it seems more nuanced than the Elders saving the constitution.

Anyone have some reference or background on this concept?

I wrote a book about it with every quote available given by Joseph Smith and many people who knew Joseph Smith:

https://latterdaylamanite.com/2022/07/0 ... -free-pdf/

[InfoWarrior82]

This is taken from the highly controversial "White Horse Prophecy" right?

[Luke]

This is taken from the highly controversial "White Horse Prophecy" right?

He said it on dozens of other occasions besides the WHP (which is true btw).

[GeeR]

Sorry I have to disagree with the idea that this prophesy is conditional, it is unconditional! Joseph Smith said "when" the Constitution is on the brink of destruction this people will step forward and save it. It's the people who paraphrase him that use the word "if". Also Ezra's Eagle Prophecy and U.S. Presidential Chronology likewise says the Consitiution will be "restored"! How's that for being unconditional? If the Constitution is not restored then Zion cannot be reestablished and the reestablishment of Zion is likewise and unconditional prophesy like the unconditional prophesy of Christ's second coming! It will happen even if the Lord has to resort to plan B!

[tribrac]

Serious question...can anyone really envision the Elders saving anything? We are talking about the group which is not even entrusted to set up tables for the ward party.

They are not capable of having an Elders Quorum social, let alone a task such as saving the country/constitution which would require courage, planning, and a firm understanding of what they were trying to save.

[TheDuke]

I think the clue is the statement of "with others". I.e. many righteous conservative people. Obviously according to Mormon, many is less than 50% or a minority. but, I see the same thing here as with the often mis-quoted statement where people think the American Indians with do it and tear the country apart like a lion. Seems all or many will work together. This is also why I don't like many quotes here about gentiles and map directly to LDS only, or Israel's leaders mapping only to LDS leaders, and Jacob's seed ending up being American Indians, instead of all Israel, etc...

But, I do see many quotes that say that freedom in the USA will be on the brink and saved, Pick by who, but the obvious answer is good people (or at least not bad people this is a Telestial place after all) and led by the Spirit under Jesus' direction.

[marc]

Serious question...can anyone really envision the Elders saving anything? We are talking about the group which is not even entrusted to set up tables for the ward party.

They are not capable of having an Elders Quorum social, let alone a task such as saving the country/constitution which would require courage, planning, and a firm understanding of what they were trying to save.

You're painting with broad strokes and making assumptions based on those brush strokes. But to answer your question, yes. I can easily envision some Elders doing this.

[Craig Johnson]

the often mis-quoted statement where people think the American Indians with do it and tear the country apart like a lion.

In the Book of Mormon, Mormon states that there were many defectors from the Nephites to the Lamanites in the war that he participated in that culminated in the end of Nephite civilization. These defectors are never said to have perished, other Nephites perished and Mormon states they were all hunted down and killed, but the defectors were not.
Therefore, we have people among the Lamanites with not only Lehite blood through Laman but also with Nephite blood. It is my opinion that this MIGHT be what the lion quote is actually about, that a righteous group of actual Nephite descendants, the "remnant" will be those who will rise up should the need present itself. But, I could be reading this incorrectly, I'm no scripturist and since I have Choctaw (Chahta) blood the whole thing is kind of interesting to me.

[Craig Johnson]

Serious question...can anyone really envision the Elders saving anything? We are talking about the group which is not even entrusted to set up tables for the ward party.

They are not capable of having an Elders Quorum social, let alone a task such as saving the country/constitution which would require courage, planning, and a firm understanding of what they were trying to save.

Yes, I can envision that. But, in harmony with your negative opinion, I have to agree that there would need to be a substantial increase in faith among our priesthood holders and I am completely confident that they are capable of that. With that upgrading I also can envision the missionary work once more being a full-tilt boogie like it has been several times in the past.
Satan has put up significant roadblocks recently, we must be among those who tear them down and get the flow of Christianity and faith strong again, and this time we need to do it much more in line with the Lord's method of laying down our lives rather than being more explanatory or more defensive. We must be among those who do not initiate offense. If people do not want to believe then leave them alone and seek those who do want to believe.

[nightlight]

In 1860, the U.S. population was 31,443,321

2% of the population, an estimated 620,000 men, lost their lives in the Civil War

The current population of the United States of America is
335,813,917

(Keep in mind that this population doesn't know how to live without utilities etc)

Imo The second civil war be more of a desperate bid for survival. Tribe vs tribe undertones with foreign powers appearing to take control for the sake of "peace". Then more of a traditional warfront once there's a major reduction in the population.

During this time... the US Constitution will evolve in the hands of the remnant. It will birth the Zionist statutes that eventually bend the knee to the true King. And He'll personally reign over His people

(I know you UK and closet liberal guys are turned off by the word "Zionist" lol I find that really silly btw. It's proof the Beast has brainwashed the children )

[marc]

the often mis-quoted statement where people think the American Indians with do it and tear the country apart like a lion.

In the Book of Mormon, Mormon states that there were many defectors from the Nephites to the Lamanites in the war that he participated in that culminated in the end of Nephite civilization. These defectors are never said to have perished, other Nephites perished and Mormon states they were all hunted down and killed, but the defectors were not.
Therefore, we have people among the Lamanites with not only Lehite blood through Laman but also with Nephite blood. It is my opinion that this MIGHT be what the lion quote is actually about, that a righteous group of actual Nephite descendants, the "remnant" will be those who will rise up should the need present itself. But, I could be reading this incorrectly, I'm no scripturist and since I have Choctaw (Chahta) blood the whole thing is kind of interesting to me.

I am 55% Indigenous native to Central America. While I maintain a blog, Latter-day Lamanite, and assume to have some of Lehi's blood, though probably very diluted, I don't think, though it is possible, that anyone is a "pure" descendant of Nephi as Moroni wrote. I believe there are a great many mixed people with the tiniest bit of Lehi's DNA spread throughout the North and South American continents. Right now, though, and for the last decade and beyond, the US has been experiencing a "border crisis" that remains unchecked. I believe there are countless people who do not know that they have Lehi's blood inside them. It's interesting to note that just recently, more and more people from central and south American countries have been finding my blog and reaching out to me with questions, one of which shared a personal experience of an answer to a prayer where he opened the Book of Mormon and the pages fell open to 3 Nephi chapter 21 where Jesus declared that the descendants of the people at Bountiful along with the help of others would build up New Jerusalem. More and more people who consider themselves Lamanites are coming to this discovery and realization.

[GeeR]

Serious question...can anyone really envision the Elders saving anything? We are talking about the group which is not even entrusted to set up tables for the ward party.

They are not capable of having an Elders Quorum social, let alone a task such as saving the country/constitution which would require courage, planning, and a firm understanding of what they were trying to save.

You're absolutely right, that's why Ezra's Eagle Prophecy and U.S. Presidential Chronology is really clear about the Elders of Israel being only two guys not the aggregate Elders Quorums of the institutional apostate church.

[tribrac]

I can envision a guy who is an elder performing brain surgery, granted he is a brain surgeon. It doesn't mean all the elders are capable ...

So it will be with saving....there might be a few here or there, more than likely it will be a church program overseen by the Corporation with full time employees and a few volunteers, but it is a Mormon Myth and Legend to think the EQ from the Riverview 2nd ward will be called or capable of doing anything more than they are doing now, and have been doing for 50 years...setting up chairs and shoveling snow.

[Craig Johnson]

the often mis-quoted statement where people think the American Indians with do it and tear the country apart like a lion.

In the Book of Mormon, Mormon states that there were many defectors from the Nephites to the Lamanites in the war that he participated in that culminated in the end of Nephite civilization. These defectors are never said to have perished, other Nephites perished and Mormon states they were all hunted down and killed, but the defectors were not.
Therefore, we have people among the Lamanites with not only Lehite blood through Laman but also with Nephite blood. It is my opinion that this MIGHT be what the lion quote is actually about, that a righteous group of actual Nephite descendants, the "remnant" will be those who will rise up should the need present itself. But, I could be reading this incorrectly, I'm no scripturist and since I have Choctaw (Chahta) blood the whole thing is kind of interesting to me.

I am 55% Indigenous native to Central America. While I maintain a blog, Latter-day Lamanite, and assume to have some of Lehi's blood, though probably very diluted, I don't think, though it is possible, that anyone is a "pure" descendant of Nephi as Moroni wrote. I believe there are a great many mixed people with the tiniest bit of Lehi's DNA spread throughout the North and South American continents. Right now, though, and for the last decade and beyond, the US has been experiencing a "border crisis" that remains unchecked. I believe there are countless people who do not know that they have Lehi's blood inside them. It's interesting to note that just recently, more and more people from central and south American countries have been finding my blog and reaching out to me with questions, one of which shared a personal experience of an answer to a prayer where he opened the Book of Mormon and the pages fell open to 3 Nephi chapter 21 where Jesus declared that the descendants of the people at Bountiful along with the help of others would build up New Jerusalem. More and more people who consider themselves Lamanites are coming to this discovery and realization.

If a person is a pure descendant of Nephi they will not look like a Lamanite. I am not one who believes that mesoamerica is the promised land nor ever was the promised land (and I am NOT a Rod Meldrum follower), and currently people wanting to leave mesoamerica and come to CONUS seems to confirm my suspicions. The Lamanites were said to disperse after the Nephites were destroyed because of the wars that continued amongst themselves in the Book of Mormon. Dispersion could mean they went all the way to South America. White people have been found in both North and South America pre-Columbus and so I must conclude that the defectors travelled with them and that some of them did not interbreed. If this is correct and I am not saying it is, then this would confirm the Book of Mormon in a very compelling way. I think it is important to remember that Lehite blood does not necessarily mean Nephite blood.

[GeeR]

...more than likely it will be a church program overseen by the Corporation with full time employees and a few volunteers

The Church is a NGO (non-governmental organzation) to the United Nations and as such has ednorsed the U.N. Sustainable Development Agenda a.k.a. Communism. I really doubt since they are part of the problem that they will have any part in saving the Constitution or chumming up to the two Elders of Israel mentioned in Ezra's Eagle Prophecy!

[Original_Intent]

Sorry I have to disagree with the idea that this prophesy is conditional, it is unconditional! Joseph Smith said "when" the Constitution is on the brink of destruction this people will step forward and save it. It's the people who paraphrase him that use the word "if". Also Ezra's Eagle Prophecy and U.S. Presidential Chronology likewise says the Consitiution will be "restored"! How's that for being unconditional? If the Constitution is not restored then Zion cannot be reestablished and the reestablishment of Zion is likewise and unconditional prophesy like the unconditional prophesy of Christ's second coming! It will happen even if the Lord has to resort to plan B!

All promises are conditioned on obedience to eternal principles.

I disagree with your argument supporting that it is unconditional.

‘I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.’ (Doc. and Cov. 82:10.)

[GeeR]

Joseph Fielding McConkie son of Bruce R. McConkie and a past religion teacher at BYU said: "Prophecy is of two kinds: conditional and unconditional. Unconditional prophesies are divine proclaimations of that which will be, irrespective of what man or nations do. The first and second comings of Christ, ressurection and the day of judgment are classic examples of unconditional prophecy. Conditional prophecies are prophetic assurances or warnings of what will or will not be, dependent upon the obedience or disobedience of those to whom the prophecy is given. The promise of liberty to the inhabitants of the American continent was obviously conditional. " (Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon. vol. 1, p.184)