LDS Freedom Forum

bbrown wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 5:26 pm I was told that I wasn’t needed wanted or welcome in the church. I can’t remember what I said. It was in Sunday school and could be found on lds.org at the time. Nothing to radical or “anti”, but it offended the teacher who was a pompous prat. The biahop gave me a stern lecture and when I tried to discuss it from scriptures he stuck his fingers in his ears and yelled “la la la la I’m not listening”. He told me if it wasn’t in the last conference ensign or two it didn’t matter. I kept going to make them nervous until I moved a few months later. The bishop here dropped in one day when I was gone and accused my wife of everything from being lazy, to drug and alcohol abuse, to adultery to more serious crimes. He’d never met us. I still have never met him, but he told my brother what an awful person I was. This kind of behavior is par for the course.

Umm… wow, just wow. The “la, la, la…” comment had me laughing. I know there are diverse views among lower-tier church leaders, but this type of behavior tends to be par for the course.

Threatening to call the police on a member who testifies that the church is in apostasy is like the dumbest thing ever. That is fully-vaxxed-and-boosted reasoning.

Silver Pie wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 3:56 pm

madvin wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 3:10 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 6:04 am
I'm pretty sure any private entity (let's just call it a business, for that is what it is) has the right to kick you out.

Not if it’s open to the public, is my understanding. Like a grocery store, for instance, if they require a mask to enter, it is against the law to require such, so it is within your rights to insist entrance.

I've known people who were kicked out of stores and forbidden to go in them again. They made themselves enough of a nuisance to the management of said stores that they were no longer welcome. I've also heard of people being banned from stores for stealing from them.

But their tithing money was probably not used to build the store.

silverado wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:48 pm But their tithing money was probably not used to build the store.

True.

download/file.php?id=19901

The answer seems to be in this document as their response .

“ We don’t care about your constitutional rights “.

Light Seeker wrote: ↑December 27th, 2022, 5:55 am download/file.php?id=19901

The answer seems to be in this document as their response .

“ We don’t care about your constitutional rights “.

Sheesh! That letter is depressing.

It's like euthanizing the spirit of freedom. What's left to celebrate after that is accomplished?

Light Seeker wrote: ↑December 27th, 2022, 5:55 am download/file.php?id=19901

The answer seems to be in this document as their response .

“ We don’t care about your constitutional rights “.

This deserves a whole thread, lol. I’ve never seen so much bullsh*t on a single page.

bbrown wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 5:26 pm I was told that I wasn’t needed wanted or welcome in the church. I can’t remember what I said. It was in Sunday school and could be found on lds.org at the time. Nothing to radical or “anti”, but it offended the teacher who was a pompous prat. The biahop gave me a stern lecture and when I tried to discuss it from scriptures he stuck his fingers in his ears and yelled “la la la la I’m not listening”. He told me if it wasn’t in the last conference ensign or two it didn’t matter. I kept going to make them nervous until I moved a few months later. The bishop here dropped in one day when I was gone and accused my wife of everything from being lazy, to drug and alcohol abuse, to adultery to more serious crimes. He’d never met us. I still have never met him, but he told my brother what an awful person I was. This kind of behavior is par for the course.

I had always heard that they keep a file on all the rabble rousers . I had been told by some to never send letters or anything in written form questioning anything or it would be put in my personal file I didn’t quite believe it until I spoke to a dear friend of mine that was the executive secretary in his ward in Boise . I relayed my hypothesis and he told me that he found out that they do keep files on people.He told me during a meeting he attended with the bishops counselors that he was asked to retrieve a document from the bishops desk . The bishop was not at the meeting due to being out of town . He said that upon entering the office there were 2 documents on the desk and one had his name on it and the other was the document he was asked to retrieve . He described the one with his name as a dossier type document that had examples of why he should not be called to higher callings . He told me that he had wished he kept that document after perusing it . He then took the other document back to the meeting . He said it shook him .

I wonder if anyone here can independently corroborate this type of document as described ?

Edited due to syntax

It is amazing to me how many want so much, not only to judge someone concerning a situation that they only have second hand sketchy information concerning – but to go to the extremes of condemning that which they do not know of themselves.

madvin wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 3:10 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 6:04 am
I'm pretty sure any private entity (let's just call it a business, for that is what it is) has the right to kick you out.

Not if it’s open to the public, is my understanding. Like a grocery store, for instance, if they require a mask to enter, it is against the law to require such, so it is within your rights to insist entrance.

You’re wrong. You have no right to insist entrance. If a private property owner demands you vacate and you refuse or return without permission, you could be arrested for trespassing, regardless if the property is open to the general public.

From the bishop's perspective, you can't turn over the pulpit for "open mike Sunday" for apostasy to be preached. I never had anything like this happen when I was a bishop (twice), but what I would have done is cut the mike and end the meeting. Nobody who knows me would accuse me of being afraid of discussing particulars about what was being said, or being unable to answer them, but that forum is neither the time nor the place. It's the Sunday sacrament meeting for believers.

With the prospect of future persistent defiance to the wishes of the mainstream congregation, I don't think that involving the police is inappropriate. Private property, public order, disorderly conduct, etc. Those wishing to preach repentance to the wayward congregation have to use other means and other venues than the actual meeting itself, if leaders and congregants don't want that.

Also, from an effectiveness standpoint, obnoxious disruption of meetings is unlikely to win anyone over. It is much more likely to cement opposition to your message and convince people that you are nuts.

Light Seeker wrote: ↑December 27th, 2022, 5:55 am download/file.php?id=19901

The answer seems to be in this document as their response .

“ We don’t care about your constitutional rights “.

Also seems to be, "We don't care if you have a disability that makes it hard for you to comply with our wishes."

cyclOps wrote: ↑December 28th, 2022, 12:04 am

madvin wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 3:10 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 6:04 am
I'm pretty sure any private entity (let's just call it a business, for that is what it is) has the right to kick you out.

Not if it’s open to the public, is my understanding. Like a grocery store, for instance, if they require a mask to enter, it is against the law to require such, so it is within your rights to insist entrance.

You’re wrong. You have no right to insist entrance. If a private property owner demands you vacate and you refuse or return without permission, you could be arrested for trespassing, regardless if the property is open to the general public.

Of course for legit reasons one will be denied entrance...however...not wearing a mask is not one of them, not really. Of course the Neanderthals will say that IS a legit reason...but..it's ..not.

Reminds me of the bishop I once had back in the late 1990s, This bishop was the nastiest, meanest, most ignorant man I have ever met. from anything to telling women WHILE IN THE TEMPLE, that they are too fat and should not be there until they lost weight. He was bishop in 1998 when my father passed away. We had to really fight over having a funeral service at the church because he wanted 2 different services, he wanted one for only the families of my father to attend, then he was demanding private services for only church members. My mother was so overcome by my fathers death, that she could hardly take one service than to be able to go through 2 of them. I finally got involved and told this bishop that it stops here, we will have only one service, for both families and ward members, and that he will not speak another word about it to my mother. the things this bishop said to other people were so dishearting. telling investigators they don't belong there, because they don't know yet if the church is true after attending for over a year.

JandD6572 wrote: ↑December 29th, 2022, 4:28 am Reminds me of the bishop I once had back in the late 1990s, This bishop was the nastiest, meanest, most ignorant man I have ever met. from anything to telling women WHILE IN THE TEMPLE, that they are too fat and should not be there until they lost weight. He was bishop in 1998 when my father passed away. We had to really fight over having a funeral service at the church because he wanted 2 different services, he wanted one for only the families of my father to attend, then he was demanding private services for only church members. My mother was so overcome by my fathers death, that she could hardly take one service than to be able to go through 2 of them. I finally got involved and told this bishop that it stops here, we will have only one service, for both families and ward members, and that he will not speak another word about it to my mother. the things this bishop said to other people were so dishearting. telling investigators they don't belong there, because they don't know yet if the church is true after attending for over a year.

I am so glad your mother had you to step in and protect her. The guy sounds like a real piece of work.