LDS Freedom Forum

briznian wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 9:56 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 12:25 am JS worshipers. SMH
so so sad.

You can only find such thing, in the Mormon or should it be called The Joseph Smith religion,
where they idolize someone other the Jesus Christ -
and where they've been taught to idolize MEN - just like they still continue to do now - with Nelson.

Just look at how much this forum talks about JS, compared to JC.
Just shows you just how much some members are misled and far away from the Lord.

Sadly - these members replace Christ with Joseph Smith in the scripture below.

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ,
we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ,
and we write according to our prophecies,
that our children may know to what source
they may look for a remission of their sins."
2 Nephi 25:26

No wonder why the Gentile LDS church will be destroyed,
and the The Drunkards of Ephraim (church leaders) will be hurled to the ground by the Lords hand
and trodden underfoot. *****

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment.
Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

***** 2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last.
Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion.
The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce.
Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

Take a breath man. You may or may not be correct. And if you are correct, you certainly aren't winning any converts to your side by shrieking so hyperbolically about it.

do you really think i care - it's not about winning.
Truth is truth.
Accept it or don't.

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:02 am

briznian wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 9:56 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 12:25 am JS worshipers. SMH
so so sad.

You can only find such thing, in the Mormon or should it be called The Joseph Smith religion,
where they idolize someone other the Jesus Christ -
and where they've been taught to idolize MEN - just like they still continue to do now - with Nelson.

Just look at how much this forum talks about JS, compared to JC.
Just shows you just how much some members are misled and far away from the Lord.

Sadly - these members replace Christ with Joseph Smith in the scripture below.

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ,
we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ,
and we write according to our prophecies,
that our children may know to what source
they may look for a remission of their sins."
2 Nephi 25:26

No wonder why the Gentile LDS church will be destroyed,
and the The Drunkards of Ephraim (church leaders) will be hurled to the ground by the Lords hand
and trodden underfoot. *****

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment.
Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

***** 2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last.
Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion.
The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce.
Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

Take a breath man. You may or may not be correct. And if you are correct, you certainly aren't winning any converts to your side by shrieking so hyperbolically about it.

do you really think i care - it's not about winning.
Truth is truth.
Accept it or don't.

Yes truth is truth but sadly you wouldn’t know the truth if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head.

Nobody has ever worshipped Joseph Smith. Instead of your lies and false accusations name me someone who worships Joseph Smith. Anybody. From 1820 down to the present time. Name me just one human who worships or worshipped Joseph Smith. Not loved, admired, praised, revered - worshipped.

And don’t just make something up, you’re obviously good at that, provide evidence that someone has worshipped Joseph Smith.

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:02 am

briznian wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 9:56 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 12:25 am JS worshipers. SMH
so so sad.

You can only find such thing, in the Mormon or should it be called The Joseph Smith religion,
where they idolize someone other the Jesus Christ -
and where they've been taught to idolize MEN - just like they still continue to do now - with Nelson.

Just look at how much this forum talks about JS, compared to JC.
Just shows you just how much some members are misled and far away from the Lord.

Sadly - these members replace Christ with Joseph Smith in the scripture below.

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ,
we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ,
and we write according to our prophecies,
that our children may know to what source
they may look for a remission of their sins."
2 Nephi 25:26

No wonder why the Gentile LDS church will be destroyed,
and the The Drunkards of Ephraim (church leaders) will be hurled to the ground by the Lords hand
and trodden underfoot. *****

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment.
Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

***** 2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last.
Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion.
The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce.
Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

Take a breath man. You may or may not be correct. And if you are correct, you certainly aren't winning any converts to your side by shrieking so hyperbolically about it.

do you really think i care - it's not about winning.
Truth is truth.
Accept it or don't.

Except what you say isn't true.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 8:20 am

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 7:39 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 5:47 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 12:25 am JS worshipers. SMH
so so sad.

You can only find such thing, in the Mormon or should it be called The Joseph Smith religion,
where they idolize someone other the Jesus Christ -
and where they've been taught to idolize MEN - just like they still continue to do now - with Nelson.

Just look at how much this forum talks about JS, compared to JC.
Just shows you just how much some members are misled and far away from the Lord.

Sadly - these members replace Christ with Joseph Smith in the scripture below.

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ,
we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ,
and we write according to our prophecies,
that our children may know to what source
they may look for a remission of their sins."
2 Nephi 25:26

No wonder why the Gentile LDS church will be destroyed,
and the The Drunkards of Ephraim (church leaders) will be hurled to the ground by the Lords hand
and trodden underfoot. *****

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment.
Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

***** 2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last.
Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion.
The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce.
Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

I think you will find religious Jews feel the same way about Moses.
It's not unique to the Mormons.

Robin my friend I went to the synagogue in my younger day, I assure you there was no worship or psalms sung to Moses, all was centred apon the God of Israel in the synagogue I went to..
If one had declared that Moses stood next to God in glory, that no man would get to heaven save thru him, that he had done more for the salvation of men save God or that Moses was their God, there would of been a righteous uproar in the synagogue.
The God fearing Jew worshipped God alone.

I'm sure you're right.
But then, no one worships Joseph Smith.
And while Jews don't worship Moses, they certainly reverence him... and Abraham.

A hym sung in a church is a very powerfull form of worship and prayer, to walk into a church were a christian would rightly expect to hear and take part in the singing of hyms of worship, praise and prayer to Jesus of Nazerath and to find the congregation singing with joy Hyms to a mortal man is a concern, for such people, wether knowingly or blindly are worshipping, offering up prayer and praise.
I agree that most LDS members do not worship Joseph Smith, but there is a small hard core group, generally consisting of wealthy, learned or bussiness types that do, generally americans.

BenMcCrea wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 1:22 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 1:06 am

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 7:39 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 5:38 pm It's unfortunate that we have to taint the day with John Taylor's non-sensical and highly unprophetic statement: "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."

The prophet who failed to build Zion has done more than the prophets who succeeded at building Zion, talk about prophet worship. Maybe when the city of Enoch returns Brighamites will acknowledge what success really looks like. They'll boast millions of people living in Zion and we'll boast bedding 15 yr olds.

Yeah, none of that is true but you believe what you want.
It will be interesting when the time comes to stand before Joseph for his approval as dispensation head.

stand before Joseph for his approval !

you know you offend me - and offend the Lord.

WHEN ARE YOU JS WORSHIPERS GOING TO WAKE UP !
I don't need JS -( a fallen prophet) for ANYTHING -
any more than I do Nelson (a false prophet)

Jesus Christ is the ONLY one we need to follow and look to.
He's the one - the only - that died for you and me.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

So just after Peter had met with the Lord and Elijah and Moses in Matthew 17 or just after the resurrected Lord had met with Peter in John 21, would you have said to Peter - I reject you as the Lords servant, I don’t need you or your keys or your authority - I only need Jesus.

I would say you know neither. You don’t know the Lord and you don’t know his servants.

You’re walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done

and I would say - you neither know the Lord - nor serve him.
You're too busy worshiping JS - a fallen prophet.

JS has no more keys or authority - any more than Nelson does.
And I certainly don't need his approval and to go through him to get to the Lord.
lol. how ridiculous.

I think you're the one "walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done"

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:18 am I agree that most LDS members do not worship Joseph Smith, but there is a small hard core group, generally consisting of wealthy, learned or bussiness types that do, generally americans.

They are certainly not worshippers of Joseph Smith. They don’t even believe the doctrines he taught.

They worship the modern leaders, though.

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:19 am You're too busy worshiping JS - a fallen prophet.

In what way is he fallen?

Luke wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:21 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:19 am You're too busy worshiping JS - a fallen prophet.

In what way is he fallen?

I've already posted that several times,
and not going to waste my time on an endless debate - that won't change anyones view.

but as I've already said in another thread

get to bypass him! (JS) lol.

congratulations, you've just demonstrated that you're living proof that the church has done it's job,
at sufficiently brainwashing and indoctrinating -
more like saturating you - in building up a fallen prophet, to the point that you
think that JS - was more than a man. lol. SMH - The Modern -Day Mormon Mentality -
The Joseph Smith mind block.

******** JS was raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.
That alone says enough about just how much he had fallen.

and you can rant all you want but you've been completely deceived -
because you're sooooooooooooooooo focused on JS - instead JC Jesus Christ

as I've said before - in another comment to someone.

I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.

It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
********
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/

Joseph Smith documented liar
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... nted-liar/

https://ldsfacts.org/category/joseph-smith/

LDS Church Timeline & Fast Facts
https://ldsfacts.org/

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:19 am

BenMcCrea wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 1:22 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 1:06 am

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 7:39 pm
Yeah, none of that is true but you believe what you want.
It will be interesting when the time comes to stand before Joseph for his approval as dispensation head.

stand before Joseph for his approval !

you know you offend me - and offend the Lord.

WHEN ARE YOU JS WORSHIPERS GOING TO WAKE UP !
I don't need JS -( a fallen prophet) for ANYTHING -
any more than I do Nelson (a false prophet)

Jesus Christ is the ONLY one we need to follow and look to.
He's the one - the only - that died for you and me.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

So just after Peter had met with the Lord and Elijah and Moses in Matthew 17 or just after the resurrected Lord had met with Peter in John 21, would you have said to Peter - I reject you as the Lords servant, I don’t need you or your keys or your authority - I only need Jesus.

I would say you know neither. You don’t know the Lord and you don’t know his servants.

You’re walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done

and I would say - you neither know the Lord - nor serve him.
You're too busy worshiping JS - a fallen prophet.

JS has no more keys or authority - any more than Nelson does.
And I certainly don't need his approval and to go through him to get to the Lord.
lol. how ridiculous.

I think you're the one "walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done"

I knew you couldn’t provide any evidence, Just more lies and false accusations, You serve the lord of darkness well.

Luke wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:20 am

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:18 am I agree that most LDS members do not worship Joseph Smith, but there is a small hard core group, generally consisting of wealthy, learned or bussiness types that do, generally americans.

They are certainly not worshippers of Joseph Smith. They don’t even believe the doctrines he taught.

They worship the modern leaders, though.

Fair comment Luke my brother, the worship of any man is unbiblical...........

BenMcCrea wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:43 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:19 am

BenMcCrea wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 1:22 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 1:06 am

stand before Joseph for his approval !

you know you offend me - and offend the Lord.

WHEN ARE YOU JS WORSHIPERS GOING TO WAKE UP !
I don't need JS -( a fallen prophet) for ANYTHING -
any more than I do Nelson (a false prophet)

Jesus Christ is the ONLY one we need to follow and look to.
He's the one - the only - that died for you and me.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

So just after Peter had met with the Lord and Elijah and Moses in Matthew 17 or just after the resurrected Lord had met with Peter in John 21, would you have said to Peter - I reject you as the Lords servant, I don’t need you or your keys or your authority - I only need Jesus.

I would say you know neither. You don’t know the Lord and you don’t know his servants.

You’re walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done

and I would say - you neither know the Lord - nor serve him.
You're too busy worshiping JS - a fallen prophet.

JS has no more keys or authority - any more than Nelson does.
And I certainly don't need his approval and to go through him to get to the Lord.
lol. how ridiculous.

I think you're the one "walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done"

I knew you couldn’t provide any evidence,

just did.
but of course you don't want to see it - because you don't want the truth.
“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.”

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:53 am

BenMcCrea wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:43 am

Being There wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 10:19 am

BenMcCrea wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 1:22 am

So just after Peter had met with the Lord and Elijah and Moses in Matthew 17 or just after the resurrected Lord had met with Peter in John 21, would you have said to Peter - I reject you as the Lords servant, I don’t need you or your keys or your authority - I only need Jesus.

I would say you know neither. You don’t know the Lord and you don’t know his servants.

You’re walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done

and I would say - you neither know the Lord - nor serve him.
You're too busy worshiping JS - a fallen prophet.

JS has no more keys or authority - any more than Nelson does.
And I certainly don't need his approval and to go through him to get to the Lord.
lol. how ridiculous.

I think you're the one "walking in darkness at noon day and leading others astray. Well done"

I knew you couldn’t provide any evidence,

just did.
but of course you don't want to see it - because you don't want the truth.
“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.”

D&C 122:1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;
2 While the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous, shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under thy hand.
3 And thy people shall never be turned against thee by the testimony of traitors.
...
9 Therefore, hold on thy way, and the priesthood shall remain with thee; for their bounds are set, they cannot pass. Thy days are known, and thy years shall not be numbered less; therefore, fear not what man can do, for God shall be with you forever and ever.

The Truth. Period.
Continue fulfilling the Lord's word if you choose.

Being There
BenMcCrea
BeNotDeceived

The last shall BE first.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 6:17 am The prophet who failed to build Zion?? The people failed to build Zion. Was Joseph perfect? No. But to place blame on him alone is misguided IMO.

Also, IMO, it is very appropriate to celebrate those whom God has given special callings. We don’t “worship” Joseph, but why in the world can’t we celebrate the good accomplishments of just men doing their best?

I don't blame him at all, but the saint's failure is naturally tied to Joseph. Now if John Taylor had said that JS would have ended up doing more than the other prophets had the saints received his message, then fine, but with Zion's failure you can't place him above the prophets who succeeded at building Zion. John Taylor was simply wrong and had no business making that statement canon.

Now when he returns, he will be successful at redeeming Zion.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 5:33 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 6:17 am The prophet who failed to build Zion?? The people failed to build Zion. Was Joseph perfect? No. But to place blame on him alone is misguided IMO.

Also, IMO, it is very appropriate to celebrate those whom God has given special callings. We don’t “worship” Joseph, but why in the world can’t we celebrate the good accomplishments of just men doing their best?

I don't blame him at all, but the saint's failure is naturally tied to Joseph. Now if John Taylor had said that JS would have ended up doing more than the other prophets had the saints received his message, then fine, but with Zion's failure you can't place him above the prophets who succeeded at building Zion. John Taylor was simply wrong and had no business making that statement canon.

Now when he returns, he will be successful at redeeming Zion.

I disagree that it’s “naturally tied to Joseph.”

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 5:51 pm I disagree that it’s “naturally tied to Joseph.”

You can't say, "Well, he intended to do more for mankind and therefore the statement is true". Taylor's statement was wrong no matter anyone's feelings about Joseph.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 5:58 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 5:51 pm I disagree that it’s “naturally tied to Joseph.”

You can't say, "Well, he intended to do more for mankind and therefore the statement is true". Taylor's statement was wrong no matter anyone's feelings about Joseph.

What I said in both of my comments had nothing to do with the quote from JT.

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 10:15 pm

Mindfields wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 10:12 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 7:39 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 5:38 pm It's unfortunate that we have to taint the day with John Taylor's non-sensical and highly unprophetic statement: "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."

The prophet who failed to build Zion has done more than the prophets who succeeded at building Zion, talk about prophet worship. Maybe when the city of Enoch returns Brighamites will acknowledge what success really looks like. They'll boast millions of people living in Zion and we'll boast bedding 15 yr olds.

Yeah, none of that is true but you believe what you want.
It will be interesting when the time comes to stand before Joseph for his approval as dispensation head.

He's got nothing to worry about. God himself will give his approval. No man's approval needed nor any of the other nonsense taught by the church.

You're welcome to believe that. I think you may be in for a surprise.

Amen. D&C 84. It has everything to do with accepting the Lord. He has said he won't accept those who do not receive His prophets. And it is true because it is His truth and He is the truth.

Just going to put this here:

"If you do not accuse each other, God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven, and if you will follow the revelations and instructions which God gives you through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours—for charity covereth a multitude of sins."--Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 4:445.

Similarly:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

marc wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 7:51 pm Just going to put this here:

"If you do not accuse each other, God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven, and if you will follow the revelations and instructions which God gives you through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours—for charity covereth a multitude of sins."--Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 4:445.

Similarly:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

I hope I measure up and that "charity covereth (my) multitude of sins"

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 24th, 2022, 8:01 pmI hope I measure up and that "charity covereth (my) multitude of sins"

It sure wouldn't be a heaven with countless people bringing their grudges and drama with them. This life is the time to get over all of that. That is what Jesus' grace is for and it's this scaffold that will be removed when this life is over. Better get right with your (generally speaking/not to anyone specific) neighbors if you wanna get right with God!

aha .. that's interesting quote, looks like 1841 nov 7 sunday,

"Monday, November 1.--I attended the city council, spoke and acted on
many local matters, and contended at great length against paying the owner
of a city nuisance, damages sustained by the removal of that nuisance.

Sidney Rigdon resigned his seat in the city council, on account of
ill health.

Tuesday, 2.--I executed letters today revoking the power of attorney
given to Almon W. Babbitt.

Saturday, 6.--Wilford Woodruff took the oath as a councilor in the
city council.

Sunday, 7.--Elder William O. Clark preached about two hours,
reproving the Saints for a lack of sanctity, and a want of holy living,
enjoining sanctity, solemnity, and temperance in the extreme, in the rigid
sectarian style.

I reproved him as Pharisaical and hypocritical and not edifying the
people; and showed the Saints what temperance, faith, virtue, charity, and
truth were. I charged the Saints motto follow the example of the adversary
in accusing the brethren, and said, "If you do not accuse each other, God
will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven, and if
you will follow the revelations and instructions which God gives you
through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not
accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity
over my sins, I will over yours--for charity covereth a multitude of sins.
What many people call sin is not sin; I do many things to break down
superstition, and I will break it down;" I referred to the curse of Ham
for laughing at Noah, while in his wine, but doing no harm. Noah was a
righteous man, and yet he drank wine and became intoxicated; the Lord did
not forsake him in consequence thereof, for he retained all the power of
his priesthood, and when he was accused by Canaan, he cursed him by the
priesthood which he held, and the Lord had respect to his word, and the
priesthood which he held, notwithstanding he was drunk, and the curse
remains upon the posterity of Canaan until the present day.

In the p.m., I attended a council of the Elders at my council room,
relative to some affairs in which my brother William was interested.

Monday, 8.--At five o'clock p.m., I attended the dedication of the
baptismal font in the Lord's House. President Brigham Young was spokesman.

The baptismal font is situated in the center of the basement room,
under the main hall of the Temple; it is constructed of pine timber, and
put together of staves tongued and grooved, oval shaped, sixteen feet long
east and west, and twelve feet wide, seven feet high from the foundation,
the basin four feet deep, the moulding of the cap and base are formed of
beautiful carved work in antique style. The sides are finished with panel
work. A flight of stairs in the north and south sides lead up and down
into the basin, guarded by side railing.

The font stands upon twelve oxen, four on each side, and two at each
end, their heads, shoulders, and fore legs projecting out from under the
font; they are carved out of pine plank, glued together, and copied after
the most beautiful five-year-old steer that could be found in the country,
and they are an excellent striking likeness of the original; the horns
were formed after the most perfect horn that could be procured.

The oxen and ornamental mouldings of the font were carved by Elder
Elijah Fordham, from the city of New York, which occupied eight months of
time. The font was enclosed by a temporary frame building sided up with
split oak clapboards, with a roof of the same material, and was so low
that the timbers of the first story were laid above it. The water was
supplied from a well thirty feet deep in the east end of the basement.

This font was built for the baptisms for the dead until the Temple
shall be finished, when a more durable one will supply its place.

I received a letter from N. K. Whitney, stating that he had purchased
$5,000 worth of goods for me; and that he should visit Kirtland before his
return home.
..
" http://boap.org/LDS/History/History_of_ ... rch/Vol_IV
1841 nov calendar
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=1841+nov+cale ... &ia=images

as to death ..
"Another contemporary penned this statement: "[Wilford Woodruff] referred to a saying of Joseph Smith, . . . That if the People knew what was behind the vail, they would try by every means . . . that they might get there, but the Lord in his wisdom has implanted the fear of death in every person that they might cling to life and thus accomplish the designs of their creator." 3

^3. A. Karl Larson, and Katharine Miles Larson, eds., Diary of Charles Lowell Walker 1 (Logan: Utah State University Press, 1980), pp. 465-66. Note: Charles Lowell Walker wrote the words to the hymn "Dearest Children, God Is Near You," Hymns, no. 96.
"
https://www.ldsliving.com/prophets-and- ... th/s/86755