Church purchases 823,000-square-foot Pacific Gateway Industrial development for $260 million

[Pseudonym]

What does it mean to help the poor? One of the first things we have to deal with is – what or who are the poor? In the year 1960 the USA conducted the most informative national census. From that census a new term was interduce into economics – it was called the poverty level or poverty line. From that definition poverty (poor) in the United States was defined as those that fell below that economic poverty line. The rest of the population was considered not poor.

During the 1960 there was a political struggle (political because it was divided on party lines) to end poverty in the USA. From the 1960 census political idealists thought they discovered that if just 2% of the USA’s GDP was transferred to those below the poverty line that poverty would end in the USA. This became the model of the “Great Society” and the foundation of the “welfare” programs.

Year after year the mantra became – just a little more is all we need to end poverty. As of today, there is more than 12% of the nation’s GDP transferred through taxes and welfare programs to the poor. The call today is as loud for more taxes and money for the poor as ever. Any opposition is criticized as the rich hording their money and comforts while the poor (especially children) starve. A lot of economists claim that poverty is as bad or worse today as it was in 1960.

Economists have become divided on political lines (we can call them liberal or conservative economists). It is my belief that the liberal economists dominate our educational structure. The last true conservative economists of much influence was Milton Friedman (a receiver of the Nobel prize in economics). Economically, I am a disciple of Milton Friedman – his audit of Social Security ought to be required reading before anyone is allowed to vote.

I believe the poverty programs of the USA have made poverty worse. In 1960 almost 90% of the poverty in the USA were rural elderly. Today over 90% of the poverty in the USA are urban single families. The 1960 poverty of rural elderly often had plots of land that was used to grow much of their food and was not considered as part of the definition of the poverty line. In essence the rural elderly were not as poor as documented the census based strictly on monetary measure.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT OUR GOVERNEMET PROGRAMS ARE HELPING THE POOR!!!!

I grew up in a wealthy family, but my father hated rich kids. I did not know we were wealthy – I thought we were poor. When I turned 8 I got my first job outside our home. I earned my own money to pay for my cloths and personal necessities as well as my share of family vacations. We raised and slaughtered chickens and rabbits for meat, had a garden for vegetables and 4 fruit trees that comprised most of our back and side yard. We hunted and fished for additional meat. (Side note – I do not like rabbit and have not eat rabbit since I left home). One thing I have learned is that the way to help the poor is with your blood, sweat and tears. If you just give money that the recipients will eventually hate both you and your money. Most of the money invested though the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is donated by the middle and poor members and that is where it is distributed. There are not economic classes except among the member that do it themselves. The resources - that are purchased with money - are available to all the same. The economic stipends given to full time general authorities - this the lowest of all other organizations.

The second thing I have learned is that most often when someone attempts to shame and accuse (especially the middle class) of sitting on their wealth while others are starving – will hate you and your money regardless of whatever you do or sacrifice for others. To them it is all about and only money – not theirs but yours.

[Light Seeker]

A NorthWest Coast warehouse? Import/Export? Did they get some huge deal with the ChiComs?

Child trafficking ?

[InfoWarrior82]

Jesus loved the man that did nothing with his talents but put them away for the new world united order.. Or perhaps it was he that said it had been better to put to "usery" than bury them?

Sorry, forgot we only read the scriptures and parables we like, those that say give to the poor (wait again Jesus said the poor would always be with us............. he must be wrong again, or he forgot about the united order, hummmmmm)

(D&C 101:43-69)

[TheDuke]

Info: not sure what the D&C 101 reference is for? It is talking after all about the "children of Zion". So, I guess after Jesus establishes Zion some will be evil and even the watchmen will be lazy? Bad day for Zion, but what has that to do with those in this day where we are not yet Zion?

[OldGlory]

I guess they can afford to employ church janitors again.

This cracked me up!! Yes!! My husband was building coordinator (or whatever it was called!) for 2 years. In our stake, we rotate each month and every ward will have 4 months that they will clean. He made sure no one cleaned more than once in a year. Of course many do not even show up for their assigned week, so we got to do it (okay mostly him)! When he was released he handed over his spreadsheet which the new guy tossed out. He uses a “random generator” each time and like magic, our name keeps coming up!!!!! I tried to tell him we JUST CLEANED, but he says that it wasn’t him but the random generator and that everyone cleans more than once. I could not get through to him and my husband said we will just do it. Funny all of this happens in the middle of me discovering the truthfulness of our church and the leaders. I knew things were bad with our government, but the scamdemic made me realize how EVIL they really are and that the church is in bed with them. One of my discoveries was how much the church is worth and what each leader (above stake presidents) is paid every year! Even though we’ve been taught they do not get paid!!!! So yes, either they need to hire janitors or they need to pay me. And as for them buying this property, it goes right along with everything else they are doing. Making deals with Babylon and making themselves and their corporation richer. Umm, that doesn’t include us, except that we gave them the money to invest with. No strings attached. And they know rockets can’t go through the firmament. So there is that.

[Craig Johnson]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has purchased the 823,000-square-foot Pacific Gateway Industrial development in Kent, WA for $260 million. According to the developer and seller, Panattoni Development Company, the price tag represents the biggest single-asset deal on the West Coast this year.

If this is true and I have no idea, I get the impression that people here do not understand the difference between what the Church leaders do with tithing moneys and what they do with their business holdings income money.
There are strict commandments governing what is done with tithing money and I have seen no divergence from that.
The moneys they receive from Church business holdings is a completely different matter and seems very logical to me since they have been very prudent in their investments and are making excellent profits on them.
This does not mean they have invested evilly and it obviously does not mean they have invested foolishly.
Do I smell jealousy or is this all a bunch of antis jumping on anything they can to try to disaffect someone with weak faith and little knowledge about what the Church ACTUALLY does? Seems like that is what this is.

[tribrac]

I think I am going to set up an LLC. The LLC will pay all my bills, establish a retirement fund for me and manage all my investments. I will take a $10 annual salary from my LLC, and pay exactly $1 in tithes.

I will have kept my accounts separate, and I will invite everyone to inspect my tithe records.

[Christianlee]

I guess they can afford to employ church janitors again.

This cracked me up!! Yes!! My husband was building coordinator (or whatever it was called!) for 2 years. In our stake, we rotate each month and every ward will have 4 months that they will clean. He made sure no one cleaned more than once in a year. Of course many do not even show up for their assigned week, so we got to do it (okay mostly him)! When he was released he handed over his spreadsheet which the new guy tossed out. He uses a “random generator” each time and like magic, our name keeps coming up!!!!! I tried to tell him we JUST CLEANED, but he says that it wasn’t him but the random generator and that everyone cleans more than once. I could not get through to him and my husband said we will just do it. Funny all of this happens in the middle of me discovering the truthfulness of our church and the leaders. I knew things were bad with our government, but the scamdemic made me realize how EVIL they really are and that the church is in bed with them. One of my discoveries was how much the church is worth and what each leader (above stake presidents) is paid every year! Even though we’ve been taught they do not get paid!!!! So yes, either they need to hire janitors or they need to pay me. And as for them buying this property, it goes right along with everything else they are doing. Making deals with Babylon and making themselves and their corporation richer. Umm, that doesn’t include us, except that we gave them the money to invest with. No strings attached. And they know rockets can’t go through the firmament. So there is that.

My elderly wife (in her 70s) got stuck doing toilets after she was assured she wouldn’t be cleaning toilets. And most people don’t show up for their assignments. I simply refuse to do it.

[Great8]

Money laundering?

It's always possible. In a city I once lived in they were building a new sports stadium. No one knew the location of the sports stadium but oddly enough a year prior to the announcement all the land around the sports stadium was bought up by an LLC. You couldn't break into the LLC to see who the partners were but oddly enough the name of the LLC were the initials of the top three government officials in the city....

When the announcement was made, the LLC sold all the land and made a killing.

During the pandemic a 70 was employed or was a former Pfizer VP. He pumped the vaccine . . .it wouldn't surprise me if he had some pull into getting the Church to endorse the vaccine.

Is there something dirty going on? Who knows . . .all I know is when large sums of money are involved the propensity for fraud, graft, laundering increases.

In Utah you get a free log cabin (referring to City Creek Mall and DFU--if anyone has the quote that would be helpful. I believe I read that on here somewhere).

[HereWeGo]

I was the cleaning coordinator in my ward over a decade ago. I would pass around a signup sheet in sunday school class and 3rd hour classes. I got 4-6 volunteer families each week. We cleaned 4 months per year. They always showed up because they had volunteered on days they were available. This worked well for years. The bishopric then told me that they wanted all of the members of the ward to get the blessings of cleaning the church and not just those who volunteered. I was told to start assigning all active members of the ward to clean on the assigned days. Mandatory service was going to replace voluntary service. I said I wouldn't do it and asked to be replaced. They made me a primary teacher. Now, if more than half of the 4 families assigned show up, it is a good day.

[Craig Johnson]

I was the cleaning coordinator in my ward over a decade ago. I would pass around a signup sheet in sunday school class and 3rd hour classes. I got 4-6 volunteer families each week. We cleaned 4 months per year. They always showed up because they had volunteered on days they were available. This worked well for years. The bishopric then told me that they wanted all of the members of the ward to get the blessings of cleaning the church and not just those who volunteered. I was told to start assigning all active members of the ward to clean on the assigned days. Mandatory service was going to replace voluntary service. I said I wouldn't do it and asked to be replaced. They made me a primary teacher. Now, if more than half of the 4 families assigned show up, it is a good day.

If I were mandoed to do some church service I would try to do it. If I volunteer to do some church service I also try to do it.
The church can mando me any time they want and I won't complain, whether I do it or not depends on if I am functioning at the time, I could be sick or something could happen that I have to give priority to like plumbing or my foot might be killing me and I can't walk or drive.
I am not so proud that I cannot be told what to do and I am not so resistant that I take any of that personally.
If a church leader mandoed me to do something and I ended up not being able to do it and then that leader had a crapfit about it, I would know who the faith lesson was for.
I once failed to do something and my leader took it personal, afterward he refused to shake my hand AT church, that was his individual problem and does not reflect on the church at all.

[Alexander]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has purchased the 823,000-square-foot Pacific Gateway Industrial development in Kent, WA for $260 million. According to the developer and seller, Panattoni Development Company, the price tag represents the biggest single-asset deal on the West Coast this year.

If this is true and I have no idea, I get the impression that people here do not understand the difference between what the Church leaders do with tithing moneys and what they do with their business holdings income money.
There are strict commandments governing what is done with tithing money and I have seen no divergence from that.
The moneys they receive from Church business holdings is a completely different matter and seems very logical to me since they have been very prudent in their investments and are making excellent profits on them.
This does not mean they have invested evilly and it obviously does not mean they have invested foolishly.
Do I smell jealousy or is this all a bunch of antis jumping on anything they can to try to disaffect someone with weak faith and little knowledge about what the Church ACTUALLY does? Seems like that is what this is.

Lol

[Niemand]

I usually forget when my cleaning duties are in the church and no, it isn't deliberate. I've actually asked for reminders a day or two before I'm due to do it and no one does.

[InfoWarrior82]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has purchased the 823,000-square-foot Pacific Gateway Industrial development in Kent, WA for $260 million. According to the developer and seller, Panattoni Development Company, the price tag represents the biggest single-asset deal on the West Coast this year.

If this is true and I have no idea, I get the impression that people here do not understand the difference between what the Church leaders do with tithing moneys and what they do with their business holdings income money.
There are strict commandments governing what is done with tithing money and I have seen no divergence from that.
The moneys they receive from Church business holdings is a completely different matter and seems very logical to me since they have been very prudent in their investments and are making excellent profits on them.
This does not mean they have invested evilly and it obviously does not mean they have invested foolishly.
Do I smell jealousy or is this all a bunch of antis jumping on anything they can to try to disaffect someone with weak faith and little knowledge about what the Church ACTUALLY does? Seems like that is what this is.

How did the church get the money to invest in business holdings in the first place?

[InfoWarrior82]

Info: not sure what the D&C 101 reference is for? It is talking after all about the "children of Zion". So, I guess after Jesus establishes Zion some will be evil and even the watchmen will be lazy? Bad day for Zion, but what has that to do with those in this day where we are not yet Zion?

How is it that you do not understand those specific verses I gave you? Zion will have two attempts made in its establishment prior to the second coming. The first, is where the foundations are set, and the leaders go into apostasy by not keeping the commandments in building the watchtower to see the enemy coming. Instead, they invest tithing money into the stock market, etc. Then, a new prophet is raised up to ultimately establish Zion with much power.

[HVDC]

I guess they can afford to employ church janitors again.

This cracked me up!! Yes!! My husband was building coordinator (or whatever it was called!) for 2 years. In our stake, we rotate each month and every ward will have 4 months that they will clean. He made sure no one cleaned more than once in a year. Of course many do not even show up for their assigned week, so we got to do it (okay mostly him)! When he was released he handed over his spreadsheet which the new guy tossed out. He uses a “random generator” each time and like magic, our name keeps coming up!!!!! I tried to tell him we JUST CLEANED, but he says that it wasn’t him but the random generator and that everyone cleans more than once. I could not get through to him and my husband said we will just do it. Funny all of this happens in the middle of me discovering the truthfulness of our church and the leaders. I knew things were bad with our government, but the scamdemic made me realize how EVIL they really are and that the church is in bed with them. One of my discoveries was how much the church is worth and what each leader (above stake presidents) is paid every year! Even though we’ve been taught they do not get paid!!!! So yes, either they need to hire janitors or they need to pay me. And as for them buying this property, it goes right along with everything else they are doing. Making deals with Babylon and making themselves and their corporation richer. Umm, that doesn’t include us, except that we gave them the money to invest with. No strings attached. And they know rockets can’t go through the firmament. So there is that.

My elderly wife (in her 70s) got stuck doing toilets after she was assured she wouldn’t be cleaning toilets. And most people don’t show up for their assignments. I simply refuse to do it.

My Ward wanted me to clean the building.

I signed up.

Told them I needed a key.

No one wanted to give me one.

I insisted as I was the only one doing the cleaning.

Finally I was allowed to use the librarians key.

Warned several times to bring it back.

I have managed assets worth millions.

Had hundreds of keys and the responsibility that goes with them.

I have no desire for any more keys.

Cleaned the building by myself.

No biggy because I know both how to work and how to clean.

Took four hours.

Limited and inferior cleaning supplies.

Broken equipment.

Found out later no one actually cleans, they just do a half assed once over.

Guess the Church gets what it pays for.

Too bad we don't.

I wondered how it got so dirty.

Place sparkled.

Tons O'complements.

Returned key.

Then wife got into big fight with the Female Ward Shadow Government about them not following the Handbook.

Priesthood checked for dirt under their nails; straightened their ties.

Then the fake Covid Marxist Coup.

No more cleaning for me.

This Reset has been great.

Carry on.

Sir H

[OldGlory]

I guess they can afford to employ church janitors again.

This cracked me up!! Yes!! My husband was building coordinator (or whatever it was called!) for 2 years. In our stake, we rotate each month and every ward will have 4 months that they will clean. He made sure no one cleaned more than once in a year. Of course many do not even show up for their assigned week, so we got to do it (okay mostly him)! When he was released he handed over his spreadsheet which the new guy tossed out. He uses a “random generator” each time and like magic, our name keeps coming up!!!!! I tried to tell him we JUST CLEANED, but he says that it wasn’t him but the random generator and that everyone cleans more than once. I could not get through to him and my husband said we will just do it. Funny all of this happens in the middle of me discovering the truthfulness of our church and the leaders. I knew things were bad with our government, but the scamdemic made me realize how EVIL they really are and that the church is in bed with them. One of my discoveries was how much the church is worth and what each leader (above stake presidents) is paid every year! Even though we’ve been taught they do not get paid!!!! So yes, either they need to hire janitors or they need to pay me. And as for them buying this property, it goes right along with everything else they are doing. Making deals with Babylon and making themselves and their corporation richer. Umm, that doesn’t include us, except that we gave them the money to invest with. No strings attached. And they know rockets can’t go through the firmament. So there is that.

My elderly wife (in her 70s) got stuck doing toilets after she was assured she wouldn’t be cleaning toilets. And most people don’t show up for their assignments. I simply refuse to do it.

My husband had a list of people that he did not assign to clean. Most of them were elderly, but the new guy totally disregarded it and would assign them anyways. I jokingly said to him the next month our ward cleans, can I at least pick the week? Totally went over his head that we have cleaned every month AND almost every week for two years of our assigned months that my husband was in charge. And that was mostly because a chunk of our ward that are all very active, very rich, and with all the BIG callings, do not show up for their assigned cleaning!! It’s such a joke!! Maybe set aside a million dollars and actually employ some members to clean. Win win situation. And it might not even cost that much since the church does not pay well unless you are a GA.

[TheDuke]

Reluctant: my query is because the first first you quote, i.e. 51 says "here is wisdom concerning the children of Zion,". So, it is talking to the children of Zion. that would mean Zion is already established. I mean you would not be talking to Zion's offspring if their parents were not already in Zion and established it. Do you see my concern for the focus? If this were a bible verse, then I could just put the inconsistency to you're assertion as translation or something, but this is modern. As a result it seems like it is talking about things happening after Zion is established. Perhaps you feel Zion is already established? I'm not arguing that point one way or the other BTW, just asking to get clarity.

I have a general issue when scriptures that forewarn or in some way prophecy are mapped to "now", exactly today, and to "us", exactly LDS. Hence, anyone stating the scripture is for LDS in 2022 (and more so often in USA specifically), and stated the prophecy is directly applying to something, needs more support than a statement. Frankly, it is valid to say the "spirit" directed the interpretation. I might not agree then but I don't feel anyone can truly argue with another's interpretation of the spirit when it refers to their personal learning (vs. learning for others or the entire church or such). But I don't see that here, just a scripture quote and my asking why and what it has to do with the claim? People have been claiming Revelations and Isaiah have been about their time for at least 2000 years and LDS last days stuff since 1890's and yet here we are. I too see things deteriorating quickly, etc... but see every prophecy unfulfilled, even when I wish to believe them. Burned once, twice, three times, just on LDS FF in past year? And worse usually the prophecy portends evil, damnation, setting right, etc... that never happens. So, I would like more evidence to agree, seems fair to me...... Remember your first inputs on the Nov 7th revelation?

[InfoWarrior82]

Reluctant: my query is because the first first you quote, i.e. 51 says "here is wisdom concerning the children of Zion,". So, it is talking to the children of Zion. that would mean Zion is already established. I mean you would not be talking to Zion's offspring if their parents were not already in Zion and established it. Do you see my concern for the focus? If this were a bible verse, then I could just put the inconsistency to you're assertion as translation or something, but this is modern. As a result it seems like it is talking about things happening after Zion is established. Perhaps you feel Zion is already established? I'm not arguing that point one way or the other BTW, just asking to get clarity.

I have a general issue when scriptures that forewarn or in some way prophecy are mapped to "now", exactly today, and to "us", exactly LDS. Hence, anyone stating the scripture is for LDS in 2022 (and more so often in USA specifically), and stated the prophecy is directly applying to something, needs more support than a statement. Frankly, it is valid to say the "spirit" directed the interpretation. I might not agree then but I don't feel anyone can truly argue with another's interpretation of the spirit when it refers to their personal learning (vs. learning for others or the entire church or such). But I don't see that here, just a scripture quote and my asking why and what it has to do with the claim? People have been claiming Revelations and Isaiah have been about their time for at least 2000 years and LDS last days stuff since 1890's and yet here we are. I too see things deteriorating quickly, etc... but see every prophecy unfulfilled, even when I wish to believe them. Burned once, twice, three times, just on LDS FF in past year? And worse usually the prophecy portends evil, damnation, setting right, etc... that never happens. So, I would like more evidence to agree, seems fair to me...... Remember your first inputs on the Nov 7th revelation?

Children of Zion are the inhabitants of the Promised Land who are of the House of Israel and have made a covenant promise with the Lord. They are the ones who have inheritances of the Kingdom of God on the Earth. They have yet to inherit this, but will if they are faithful and watchful so that they will not be deceived.

[TheDuke]

Please show a scripture reference that defines "children of Zion" as stated above. seems like a personal definition vs. scriptural. I'm not disagreeing with the principle, but it's application. If the scriptures are used as a timeline as suggested above, etc.... then children of Zion would appear to be the children of the parents living in Zion....... any other definition would seem to be broad, vague, and for specifics generally meaningless. BTW I disagree you from a spiritual perspective as well, as you can be from Zion and not live in promised land, and further I think only those the make and keep the covenants count. And I don't see any connection with Kingdom of God on the earth........... seems to jump to some governmental perspective from Zion perspective (pure in heart).

[BroJones]

I think I am going to set up an LLC. The LLC will pay all my bills, establish a retirement fund for me and manage all my investments. I will take a $10 annual salary from my LLC, and pay exactly $1 in tithes.

I will have kept my accounts separate, and I will invite everyone to inspect my tithe records.

Interesting, but I think you are getting at something and I don't see it.

Are you suggesting that some individuals in the church do this? Or what are you suggesting?

[InfoWarrior82]

Please show a scripture reference that defines "children of Zion" as stated above. seems like a personal definition vs. scriptural. I'm not disagreeing with the principle, but it's application. If the scriptures are used as a timeline as suggested above, etc.... then children of Zion would appear to be the children of the parents living in Zion....... any other definition would seem to be broad, vague, and for specifics generally meaningless. BTW I disagree you from a spiritual perspective as well, as you can be from Zion and not live in promised land, and further I think only those the make and keep the covenants count. And I don't see any connection with Kingdom of God on the earth........... seems to jump to some governmental perspective from Zion perspective (pure in heart).

You need to understand the these topics: Zion as an Idea (United Order), the Land of Zion (The Promised Land), Zion Proper (Independence Missouri AKA New Jerusalem), and the Redemption of Zion (two separate phases: 1st- Financial Mammon which fails, and 2nd- Like unto Moses delivering the Israelites)

To better understand the context on the scriptures you are referring to, you should first read these verses in the same chapter:

12 And in that day all who are found upon the watch-tower, or in other words, all mine Israel, shall be saved.

13 And they that have been scattered shall be gathered.

14 And all they who have mourned shall be comforted.

15 And all they who have given their lives for my name shall be crowned.

16 Therefore, let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion; for all flesh is in mine hands; be still and know that I am God.

17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered.

18 They that remain, and are pure in heart, shall return, and come to their inheritances, they and their children, with songs of everlasting joy, to build up the waste places of Zion.


Zion is yet to be redeemed, but we are still living on the Land of Zion (The Promised Land). This is what it means that the children of Zion, (That's the Lord's church) will gain their inheritances, & build Zion (The New Jerusalem AND the United Order) when Israel is literally gathered to a literal, physical place.

[tribrac]

I think I am going to set up an LLC. The LLC will pay all my bills, establish a retirement fund for me and manage all my investments. I will take a $10 annual salary from my LLC, and pay exactly $1 in tithes.

I will have kept my accounts separate, and I will invite everyone to inspect my tithe records.

Interesting, but I think you are getting at something and I don't see it.

Are you suggesting that some individuals in the church do this? Or what are you suggesting?

No, not accusing anyone. Just making a point that forming a business entity and keeping multiple accounts may technically separate my responsibility, but not really.

In other words, I am not convinced by arguments that the church should operate under a different moral standard for tithing accounts than it does for other accounts.

[Pseudonym]

How did the church get the money to invest in business holdings in the first place?

What we do know is that it was not from tithing funds, missionary funds, humanitarian funds, fast offerings, perpetual education fund or Book of Mormon funds. If anyone is concerned about donating funds for the poor – unlike most other funds to help the poor there is no overhead costs. That is much better than government funds (including Social Security) that takes 60% + for their overhead.

[farmerchick]

my thoughts: When money is worthless at least I have my property...even if deflation hits...i still have my property......when gold and land still have value...I'll have my property.....maybe thats the thought process for the church when millions of dollars that they hold may become worthless .....maybe something tangible is worth more than paper and will be able to create value in a world where money is deflated or inflated.....just a thought.....