Church purchases 823,000-square-foot Pacific Gateway Industrial development for $260 million

[InfoWarrior82]

But where did the church get the investment money to begin with? All from donated properties? Source? The only methods that are adverstised by the church are 1: Tithing 2: Fast offerings 3: Donating to the "Humanitarian Fund". Do you have a link where one would be able to donate another way?

I am a little concerned with what appears to me to be misunderstanding of wealth. A great deal is explained in the Book of Mormon. Wealth is the natural byproduct of industry. It is also the blessing of an industrial society. In Church history the term for industry is deseret. Part of understanding wealth is understanding that the cycle of wealth requires giving back. Sustainable wealth requires giving back. Tithing, contrary to what many seem to argue, is a source of individual wealth more than wealth for the institution to which tithing is donated. Wealth can seemingly be achieved without giving back but that attitude of wealth is not sustainable.

Now I would give a little history lesson. When the Latter-day Saints arrived in the west they had to initiate their own economy. This was done over decades of cooperation. Since the LDS society could not count on any government for their economy, they were forced to establish their own economic structure. The saints established organizations within the Church to hold legal water and mineral rights for the benefit of society which is the ever-false claim of governments (at least my opinion).

What few understand is that the Saints endured a limited economy for decades and when the great depression hit the rest of the country – it was business as usual among the western Saints. By the end of WWII the west (including the Saints) held critical elements of a new economy in the USA. There is now a new term called critical earth elements (sometimes called rare earth elements). I am not sure how to proceed at this point without becoming political. Water and mineral rights are critical to modern economic development – especially in the wester US. When the Saints were driven from the USA into the west it was with great sacrifice. The initial journey west cost the lives of 1 in ever 5 Saints. But it also put them in the middle of the critical earth elements which the Church has some holdings.

There are in our modern society a generation (similar to cycles in the Book of Mormon) that have lost the understanding of deseret. They simply do not understand the virtue of the attitude of industry. They want to enjoy the fruits of the sacrifice of others. They want to take without giving anything back or giving back as little as possible. So, they think not to pay tithing – thinking the Church is too rich and that they can be selfish and not contribute. That attitude has never sustained any economy – ever. Economic ruin begins with that attitude of taking what one can and refusing to give back in return. The economic truth is that one of the great joys of life is in industry (deseret) and being productive – which is the foundation of LDS doctrine of economics.

The greatest help for everyone – especially the poor is to help them understanding the economy of deseret – that there is both personal wealth and joy in being productive. It is my personal belief that we are teaching a generation to be slothful and unproductive - which includs the attitude of debt.

According to D&C 101:43-69, is the Lord happy or upset with the church leaders using money to invest in the exchangers?

[InfoWarrior82]

Hello??

[InfoWarrior82]

Has the watchtower been built? If it has, what/where is it?

[HereWeGo]

What we do know is that it was not from tithing funds, missionary funds, humanitarian funds, fast offerings, perpetual education fund or Book of Mormon funds. If anyone is concerned about donating funds for the poor – unlike most other funds to help the poor there is no overhead costs. That is much better than government funds (including Social Security) that takes 60% + for their overhead.

Where did it come from, then?

When the Church first moved to the west there was investments in land (from Canada to Mexico) and a lot of investments in industries. Perhaps you remember ZCMI, the children hospital, KSL, and Bonneville. In addition, it is not unusual for members to donate land and other (in kind) to the Church upon their death. Such funds and donations are not part of the other funds donated. In addition, the church has other sources of income such as Deseret Industries.

The main point I wanted to highlight about donations – is that complaints that the church is squandering designated funds – is unfounded and simply not true. The doctrine of economics that was established from the beginning (Joseph Smith) is the concept of industry as expressed by the term Deseret. Which is to create an environment where the Saints are productive even as individuals. The concept is hard to understand when individuals are not concerned about production but rather concerned about selfishly worrying about and lusting over what they think others are accumulating.

The donations are very explicit and exact to what is advertised. There is no overhead charge taken off the top. It does not help the poor if there are no opportunities for them to become productive. It is never just about money. And helping the poor is never about someone else’s money. We could discuss economic principles but it is my impression that some posters are more interested in complaining than accomplishing anything. More than anything I regret that the opportunities for service in the church have dropped considerably since my youth – and yet there seems to me to be more complaining about expectations of service.

Except when Bishop Edgeley admitted in the article titled "mormon inc." that occasionally tithing funds are used on the for profit side when investments go bad. I posted a link to that article on a thread on this forum years ago.

This was also exposed by an Ensign Peak Advisors employee who reported to the IRS that the Church had twice used sacred tithing funds, totaling about $1.2billion, to rescue the City Creek Mall which ran into financial problems. He quit his job because he felt guilty with his company misusing tithing funds. For documents and the whole story, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDlFZF3RyhE

[InfoWarrior82]

Where did it come from, then?

When the Church first moved to the west there was investments in land (from Canada to Mexico) and a lot of investments in industries. Perhaps you remember ZCMI, the children hospital, KSL, and Bonneville. In addition, it is not unusual for members to donate land and other (in kind) to the Church upon their death. Such funds and donations are not part of the other funds donated. In addition, the church has other sources of income such as Deseret Industries.

The main point I wanted to highlight about donations – is that complaints that the church is squandering designated funds – is unfounded and simply not true. The doctrine of economics that was established from the beginning (Joseph Smith) is the concept of industry as expressed by the term Deseret. Which is to create an environment where the Saints are productive even as individuals. The concept is hard to understand when individuals are not concerned about production but rather concerned about selfishly worrying about and lusting over what they think others are accumulating.

The donations are very explicit and exact to what is advertised. There is no overhead charge taken off the top. It does not help the poor if there are no opportunities for them to become productive. It is never just about money. And helping the poor is never about someone else’s money. We could discuss economic principles but it is my impression that some posters are more interested in complaining than accomplishing anything. More than anything I regret that the opportunities for service in the church have dropped considerably since my youth – and yet there seems to me to be more complaining about expectations of service.

Except when Bishop Edgeley admitted in the article titled "mormon inc." that occasionally tithing funds are used on the for profit side when investments go bad. I posted a link to that article on a thread on this forum years ago.

This was also exposed by an Ensign Peak Advisors employee who reported to the IRS that the Church had twice used sacred tithing funds, totaling about $1.2billion, to rescue the City Creek Mall which ran into financial problems. He quit his job because he felt guilty with his company misusing tithing funds. For documents and the whole story, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDlFZF3RyhE

Ah, so there's the leverage the government has over our church to make them fall in line.

Church leaders are going to find out soon that it wasn't worth it.

[Primary Outcast]

I spent a day with a homeless man once, I gave him a simple job. One thing I learned, the lack of money was not that guy's problem. He couldn't complete simple tasks, and the more we talked the more I understood that he had no reasoning skills whatsoever. Money won't help my friend because he doesn't know what to do with it. At the time he was giving whatever money he had to some cat-fishing scam that found him on facebook (probably some dude from the shelter was scamming him).

There was no poor in Zion. Were there drugs in Zion? Was there idleness in Zion? Were there children without fathers? Was there a corrupt government in Zion? People say there was no poor in Zion like it must have had a giant welfare program, which I don't believe was the case (not to say that there aren't legitimate reasons for welfare).

Also consecration and the United Order are not synonymous. We should be living the law of consecration today the best we can, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to give as much money as I possibly can to my homeless friend. Like I said, the money would only go so far until he's in the same situation, the money won't help him. And I'm not bringing him home to live with me and my 2 daughters. I'll give him a job when I can and that's all I can do.

Likewise the church can only do so much. They can't fix corrupt governments. I got with my bishop to get my homeless friend a coat, shoes, etc, but the guy wouldn't even bother to go through the steps to receive this help. I'm not saying that everything the church spends money on is wise or justified, but it's also not fair to put the poor of the world on the shoulders of the church.

[Silver Pie]

it's also not fair to put the poor of the world on the shoulders of the church.

I agree.

The Church shouldn't exist as a legal entity. It should consist of those who humble themselves, turn to Christ, repent, and are baptized. There should be zero leaders. Zero hierarchy. If God calls prophets by his own voice, great. But they shouldn't be bossing people around and taking their tithing money.

The people should care for the poor, not an institution.

As for your friend, he sounds like he has serious issues, and one could only help him if God showed how.

I'm sure that one reason there are no poor in Zion is because the people are of one mind and one heart. The poor are helped, but I don't think there are mental illnesses there, nor the things that usually spawn them (poor nutrition, drug abuse, and/or abuse in all it's many colors, for example). There would be no scammers to turn the heads of the poor.

I don't know that it would be that way at the outset, but the scriptures give hope that the Lord can work with those with willing hearts, and it can become a place of no illness, no harming others, no poor, etc.

One thing that will help prevent poverty is no giant corporations taking over every mom and pop establishment and running them out of business. In fact, it seems like there won't be businesses as we know them. People will be able to build their own homes (with help, if need be), and they won't cost half a million dollars or more to build.

I think if we stepped into a full-blown Zion right now, we'd get culture shock - and might even hate being there.

[onefour1]

Hope they have some good earthquake insurance. https://www.homefacts.com/earthquakes/W ... /Kent.html

[p8riot]

Panattoni and Link Logistics purchased the 42-acre site from The Boeing Co. for $60 million in early 2020.

$200million increase in price in 2 years?! Is there a Fort Knox Annex on the property or something?

Somebody made a KILLING on that deal....

Follow the money. Who did they buy it from?

Not only who they bought it from but who were the middle men? For that inflated price, someone in the middle is making a killing also. It would be nice to know who in the Corp royalty profited from it.