Page 1 of 1

Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 20th, 2022, 10:27 am
by Pazooka
There is a mystery here. Those arguing that Jesus was a fictitious person use the evidence for Nazareth not actually being a town at the time of Jesus. Nazareth gets no mention until the 2nd century AD. It may not have been a town, but it was a people.

The trouble stems from the fact that Hebrew was written without vowels and can be read a different way every time. NTZR, the word from which the Greek is derived, can be “preserver, restorer, guardian, BRANCH, offshoot....”

There was trouble between the Hebrews of the old religion (a remnant that were not carried away captive) and the “Jews” that returned from captivity. These Hebrews became the stock of the Essenes, Mandaeans, Nazoreans, Ebionites, etc. They tended to have an oral tradition that could not be written due to its secret, sacred nature.

The Jews persecuted the Nazoreans and the Nazoreans thought very poorly of the apostate Jews.

If you want your mind blown:

https://www.academia.edu/34528711/The_N ... dea_of_God

The screenshot below is a taste.

There is also some fine scholarship by Margaret Barker on the subject: Jesus the Nazoreanhttp://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/Te ... ofJohn.pdf

Re: Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 20th, 2022, 10:39 am
by Pazooka
From MB’s paper Jesus the Nazorean:

Re: Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 20th, 2022, 10:40 am
by BuriedTartaria
Wow, you know a lot about history. I wasn't aware of a lot of this stuff.

Re: Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 20th, 2022, 10:59 am
by Pazooka
BuriedTartaria wrote: December 20th, 2022, 10:40 am Wow, you know a lot about history. I wasn't aware of a lot of this stuff.
Me neither until just recently. It is really exciting - glad you like it.

Re: Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 21st, 2022, 10:44 am
by Pazooka
Some interesting information regarding Mary Magdalene, form the Mandaeans (Nazoreans who did not follow Jesus).

It paints a vivid picture of the time - Holy carp. Makes me wonder how much of it is true. High priests buying their position? That kind of elitist hypocrisy?

From the article posted in the OP:
Mary Magdalene would have been born to a Sadducee, rich and powerful family historically well-known - the Boethus. Her father, Eliezer, was a one-year Jerusalem high priest around 4 CE, after having bought the position. Bright and having benefited from a high education, she would have acquired an outstanding personal position and outreach. She would have taught and given lectures to large audiences and personal advice to in-dividuals. She would have had many suitors. In a hypocritical familial milieu with low ethical standards, she would have had “a morally lax period.” But she would have become tired of such a life. The Nazoreans “so much feared by her parents,” had a center in Bethany, near her family home. She would have met them and would have turned to the Nazorean faith. That is how, we are said, she met Jesus who would have been ‘high priest’ in this sect without sacrifices.

Not only would her parents have unwillingly accepted her conversion (seen as causing a drop in her status), but also a lot of suitors would have been jealous, in particular a gang leader named Zatan.
With him, several of his friends took an oath, which is reported to have been: We will slay them [the Nazoreans] and make Miryai scorned in Jerusalem. A stake [cross] we will set up for the man who has ruined Miryai and led her away. There shall be no day in the world when a For-eigner [Nazorean] enters Jerusalem.

It’s seems unlikely that this oath would have been invented later out of thin air. Anyway, these details of the whole story that I am summing up not only do not seem unlikely but even appear to nicely dovetail with what we know from other sources and to inform obscurities in the traditional version of the facts coming from the Canonical Gospels. Firstly, the bright and strong personality of Mary Magdalene would explain her special relationship with Jesus and with the apostles (had she not been called the ‘Apostle to the Apostles’? Secondly the “morally lax period of her life” would explain the ‘repented sinner from whom Jesus would had cast out demons’, suggested by the Gospel of Luke.

Re: Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 22nd, 2022, 12:24 pm
by SJR3t2
You may enjoy this youtube on Nazarenes https://youtu.be/fF6o4ptFUrg. I call myself a Nazarene Mormon https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/nazarene/.

Re: Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 22nd, 2022, 1:06 pm
by Cruiserdude
Pazooka wrote: December 21st, 2022, 10:44 am Some interesting information regarding Mary Magdalene, form the Mandaeans (Nazoreans who did not follow Jesus).

It paints a vivid picture of the time - Holy carp. Makes me wonder how much of it is true. High priests buying their position? That kind of elitist hypocrisy?

From the article posted in the OP:
Mary Magdalene would have been born to a Sadducee, rich and powerful family historically well-known - the Boethus. Her father, Eliezer, was a one-year Jerusalem high priest around 4 CE, after having bought the position. Bright and having benefited from a high education, she would have acquired an outstanding personal position and outreach. She would have taught and given lectures to large audiences and personal advice to in-dividuals. She would have had many suitors. In a hypocritical familial milieu with low ethical standards, she would have had “a morally lax period.” But she would have become tired of such a life. The Nazoreans “so much feared by her parents,” had a center in Bethany, near her family home. She would have met them and would have turned to the Nazorean faith. That is how, we are said, she met Jesus who would have been ‘high priest’ in this sect without sacrifices.

Not only would her parents have unwillingly accepted her conversion (seen as causing a drop in her status), but also a lot of suitors would have been jealous, in particular a gang leader named Zatan.
With him, several of his friends took an oath, which is reported to have been: We will slay them [the Nazoreans] and make Miryai scorned in Jerusalem. A stake [cross] we will set up for the man who has ruined Miryai and led her away. There shall be no day in the world when a For-eigner [Nazorean] enters Jerusalem.

It’s seems unlikely that this oath would have been invented later out of thin air. Anyway, these details of the whole story that I am summing up not only do not seem unlikely but even appear to nicely dovetail with what we know from other sources and to inform obscurities in the traditional version of the facts coming from the Canonical Gospels. Firstly, the bright and strong personality of Mary Magdalene would explain her special relationship with Jesus and with the apostles (had she not been called the ‘Apostle to the Apostles’? Secondly the “morally lax period of her life” would explain the ‘repented sinner from whom Jesus would had cast out demons’, suggested by the Gospel of Luke.
Holy carp is right! 😳😳
My oh my, how history seems to continually repeat itself.

Re: Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Posted: December 22nd, 2022, 1:36 pm
by SJR3t2
I define Nazarene Mormon near the start of this scripture study I host if anyone is interested.

The Father is the Son. A better translation of Elohim is Judge. Renewing of covenants. We covenant to morn with those who are morning. What is a Nazarene Mormon. All the laws in the New Testament are helping us understand the laws of the Old Testament more. The five wise virgins worship YHWH how He wants to be worshipped. Motivations for keeping the law. D&C 19 is saying I didn't say it this way, but I did say it this way to prick peoples hearts more. The Holy Spirit / Ghost is the law / Torah. Talked about YHWH's calendar. YHWH says the same thing to all people through all time. Modalism is what the scriptures teach about the Godhead. We must be sinless to perform miracles. We can be perfect as Yeshua commanded us to be. Name can and does mean character. Church government in Acts 15. Passages about staying with an unbelieving spouse. Looked at a quote from Brigham Young. There are two parts to divorce. Love and Respect is a good book on marriage based on the Bible. What is the baptism of Fire?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdgD69I ... n&index=41