LDS Freedom Forum

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:56 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:51 pm Pondering this from my lunch studies:

“For when wickedness is taken up in the hearts of men, it is hardly cleansed out of them when there are many who have taken it up and made it a standard unto themselves. Yea, when it has taken over the governance of a city (*and a church I might add*), it can hardly be cleansed except that the Peacemaker does make such a cleansing.

D&C 84 comes to mind.

Maybe if you studied actual scripture you'd occasionally get your doctrine correct.

It's interesting how even in this thread it has been proven several times over that Reluctant Watchman can leave the church, but y'all fine upstanding church members can't leave him alone.

MikeMaillet wrote: ↑December 19th, 2022, 9:44 am Yesterday I wrote a letter to my Bishop asking that my name be removed from the records of the church. Your friend’s reasons for leaving the church are very similar to mine and it is because I believe the Book of Mormon that I wrote the letter.

Like your friend, I have ventured outside the canon and have let the Spirit be my guide. I’m glad I did and I’m glad that I have stayed away from commentaries by “experts.”

My letter will be mailed today or tomorrow.

Thanks for posting this.

Mike

I agree with the letter and reasons for leaving and so much more. I used quitmormon.com and I did not have to talk to any church leader.

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:56 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:51 pm Pondering this from my lunch studies:

“For when wickedness is taken up in the hearts of men, it is hardly cleansed out of them when there are many who have taken it up and made it a standard unto themselves. Yea, when it has taken over the governance of a city (*and a church I might add*), it can hardly be cleansed except that the Peacemaker does make such a cleansing.

D&C 84 comes to mind.

Maybe if you studied actual scripture you'd occasionally get your doctrine correct.

Challenge the doctrine man, not your false beliefs in men.

bbrown wrote: ↑December 19th, 2022, 8:47 pm The “they can leave the church but can’t leave it alone” thing irritates me to no end. It is almost always the opposite in my experience.

It's the Mormon equivalent of "don't let the door hit your butt on the way out" kind of retort.

BenMcCrea wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 6:36 am I love to hear that people are leaving the restored Church of Jesus Christ. It means that Heber C Kimball’s prophecy was exactly right!

By the way, the very fact you’re on this forum means you can’t leave the Church alone!

So big shout out to all you apostates for fulfilling that.

I can't speak for others but the reason I'm on this forum is multifaceted and I derive great pleasure from being able to discuss, not just the church, but topics about Christ and His Gospel and the Scriptures in general. I have the opportunity to chat with people from around the globe who are older, smarter, younger, more experienced... I think you get the picture. There are some posters who have incredible insight and opinions and many with which I do not agree. It would be boring if we all agreed, wouldn't it?

I know I can be opinionated and sometimes abrupt but the best way to shut me up is to show me where I'm wrong in my opinions. It's a win/win. I get smarter and you get quiet, for a while.

If calling me names such as apostate makes you feel better, I'm glad to have contributed to your happiness. I'm just being cheeky with you here and wish you no ill will.

Your Brother in Christ,

Mike

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:56 pm Maybe if you studied actual scripture you'd occasionally get your doctrine correct.

Hmm. It's almost like that's what made many of us leave...

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 1:04 pm It's interesting how even in this thread it has been proven several times over that Reluctant Watchman can leave the church, but y'all fine upstanding church members can't leave him alone.

We love double standards

I never thought I'd have this verse of scripture come to mind so often when attempting to support the doctrine Christ taught in scripture from members of the LDS faith:

10 And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 19th, 2022, 9:08 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑December 19th, 2022, 7:27 pm Everyone has a choice, leaving because difficult times is a faith challenge is understood and predicted in many prophecies. Sorry to see some go, but at least make it honorable and not just leave but leave things alone. The issue is many leave but cannot leave it alone. Choosing for oneself is what this mortal experience is all about, choosing for another is what Satan wants this experience to be all about.

The apostasy of the LDS church was certainly prophesied of.

BTW, this whole “you can leave, but just leave it alone” doesn’t fly. I care about my family and friends who are abused by the church. I care about true vs false doctrine. I see the suffering that happens when men exercise unrighteous dominion, when people die by heeding their counsel.

It's not just the LDS. It's everyone.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 1:04 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:56 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:51 pm Pondering this from my lunch studies:

“For when wickedness is taken up in the hearts of men, it is hardly cleansed out of them when there are many who have taken it up and made it a standard unto themselves. Yea, when it has taken over the governance of a city (*and a church I might add*), it can hardly be cleansed except that the Peacemaker does make such a cleansing.

D&C 84 comes to mind.

Maybe if you studied actual scripture you'd occasionally get your doctrine correct.

It's interesting how even in this thread it has been proven several times over that Reluctant Watchman can leave the church, but y'all fine upstanding church members can't leave him alone.

I suppose we could leave him alone.
It's not like book he keeps on quoting is from God. It has no more true divine authority than someone quoting the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita.
But I suppose admittedly like him I have a hard time leaving those speaking false doctrine alone. We just disagree on who has things right.
The age old story I guess. I worry about the easily influenced and those who already have testimonies faltering.

h_p wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 1:57 pm

bbrown wrote: ↑December 19th, 2022, 8:47 pm The “they can leave the church but can’t leave it alone” thing irritates me to no end. It is almost always the opposite in my experience.

It's the Mormon equivalent of "don't let the door hit your butt on the way out" kind of retort.

The "can't leave it alone argument" is disgusting and presumptuous. Some say the Church is a death cult. Some say it is just a cult. I make my case in my book. But to say you can't leave it alone is to ignore that fact that "you can take the boy out of the church but you can't take the church out of the boy", which is the end all be all of the church: to ingrain itself to the point it can't be removed without killing you.

ithink wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:24 pm It's not just the LDS. It's everyone.

I agree. As Moroni states in Mormon 8, "all" churches in the last days. The context for that verse/prophecy is well after the restoration referenced earlier in the chapter.

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:25 pm It's not like book he keeps on quoting is from God. It has no more true divine authority than someone quoting the

I would challenge anyone on the forum to find more clear representations of doctrine than in that record.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 1:04 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:56 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:51 pm Pondering this from my lunch studies:

“For when wickedness is taken up in the hearts of men, it is hardly cleansed out of them when there are many who have taken it up and made it a standard unto themselves. Yea, when it has taken over the governance of a city (*and a church I might add*), it can hardly be cleansed except that the Peacemaker does make such a cleansing.

D&C 84 comes to mind.

Maybe if you studied actual scripture you'd occasionally get your doctrine correct.

It's interesting how even in this thread it has been proven several times over that Reluctant Watchman can leave the church, but y'all fine upstanding church members can't leave him alone.

Hmm...

Seems to me that making over 10 posts a day for over two years, the majority of which have been attacks on the church, doesn't suggest that Reluctant Watchman has left the church.

But what do I know.

I see a lot of Catholics who still attend church and believe in the Catholic faith while at the same time being open about thinking the Pope is the anti Christ. We should all be more like Catholics in this regard. We should have dozens of Bishop Vigano's.

I won't leave the church because the Lord has told me there are still many I need to reach somehow. Perhaps there will be a lot of people that will need someone there to explain to them why the church is being dashed to pieces and are in danger of losing their entire faith in Jesus Christ because they put their trust in man.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:44 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:25 pm It's not like book he keeps on quoting is from God. It has no more true divine authority than someone quoting the

I would challenge anyone on the forum to find more clear representations of doctrine than in that record.

Sure no problem. Here you go:

Book of Mormon
D&C
Pearl of Great Price
Old and New Testaments (particularly the JST)
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith
General Conference Talks
Gospel Principles Manual
Preach my Gospel Manual
Sacrament Meeting talks
Primary talks

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:11 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 12:56 pm Maybe if you studied actual scripture you'd occasionally get your doctrine correct.

Hmm. It's almost like that's what made many of us leave...

"Our abuse flushes the spiritually weak from the church. They're just a burden anyway that's keeping us from Zion. It's not a bug, it's a feature."

How I envision we should all feel about false doctrine

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:19 pm How I envision we should all feel about false doctrine

Aaaaaand of course I’d be eating dinner when I saw that.

Serves me right for looking at my phone during family dinner!!

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:24 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:19 pm How I envision we should all feel about false doctrine

Aaaaaand of course I’d be eating dinner when I saw that.

Serves me right for looking at my phone during family dinner!!

I thought that was a good visual representation of my spirit over the past two years. Once it comes up, there's no going back down.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:44 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:25 pm It's not like book he keeps on quoting is from God. It has no more true divine authority than someone quoting the

I would challenge anyone on the forum to find more clear representations of doctrine than in that record.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:19 pm How I envision we should all feel about false doctrine

Agreed.

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:33 pm ...

You've never read the record. How would you know? The simple fact that you believe any book of scripture must come through LDS church leaders should be a red flag.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:37 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:33 pm ...

You've never read the record. How would you know? The simple fact that you believe any book of scripture must come through LDS church leaders should be a red flag.

Not necessarily through LDS Church leaders. Through God's chosen mouthpiece, called and authorized.
Do you actually know the authority and calling of the writer of your book of scripture?

I know the authority of Paul, the authority of Moses, the authority of Joseph Smith, the authority of John the Beloved.
Likewise I know the lack of authority of Mohammed, the lack of authority of Warren Jeffs, the lack of authority of Christopher Nemelka.

Do you believe the man who published your book held the same authority as Moses, Paul, John the Beloved or the Prophet Joseph?
Or do you simply not believe in the concept of priesthood authority any more? Anyone can be given authoritative revelation?

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 3:02 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:44 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 2:25 pm It's not like book he keeps on quoting is from God. It has no more true divine authority than someone quoting the

I would challenge anyone on the forum to find more clear representations of doctrine than in that record.

Sure no problem. Here you go:

Book of Mormon
D&C
Pearl of Great Price
Old and New Testaments (particularly the JST)
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith
General Conference Talks
Gospel Principles Manual
Preach my Gospel Manual
Sacrament Meeting talks
Primary talks

"Find clear representations of doctrine"

"Ok, here's a list of books and manuals instead"