LDS Freedom Forum

cab wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 11:27 pm Leaning yes. Eternity is a long time and we progress by degrees, grace by grace. Mortality is the day when we work by the sweat of our brow and faith is exercised as we mine more light and glory like unto the parable of the talents. But then comes the night where no work can be done and we either rest and take joy in the fruit of our labor or we mourn and howl.

...and what follows every night? Another day!

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:55 am It's a pretty good excuse to justify our sinning, thinking that I'll just come back as a monkey, then a cow, then a praying mantis and then a human again and that time I won't sin.

You're just being dumb for no reason.

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am (Unless you play the liberal progressive word game...where words don't mean what they mean...and it's dealers choice ).

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

Unless you are playing your own game, you'll have to concede that the scripture says "can die no more", not "must die no more". It appears you need to find another condemnatory scripture.

1775peasant wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 6:53 pm this will make one question, if?


https://youtu.be/-JrSi7rWWpM

I've read the book that had that story and many others in it. There is more or less scientific proof of multiple lives for those with ears to hear.

onefour1 wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:58 pm MMP means you would die more than once but we are only appointed once to die unless through the priesthood you are raised from the dead to continue in mortality as the same person and the same mortality and the same mortal probation.

Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

That might only mean that everyone has to suffer death and what about after judgement where man would be free to live and die again. Near Death Experiences have shown us that a life review or judgement happens immediately after death for each person.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 8:28 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:55 am It's a pretty good excuse to justify our sinning, thinking that I'll just come back as a monkey, then a cow, then a praying mantis and then a human again and that time I won't sin.

You're just being dumb for no reason.

You're just being dumb for a reason.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:36 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 8:28 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:55 am It's a pretty good excuse to justify our sinning, thinking that I'll just come back as a monkey, then a cow, then a praying mantis and then a human again and that time I won't sin.

You're just being dumb for no reason.

You're just being dumb for a reason.

It's ok to not have an intellectual contribution to a thread, so just say that. Nobody is going to believe you when you imply people here actually think they would come back as a lesser lifeform.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:50 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:36 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 8:28 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:55 am It's a pretty good excuse to justify our sinning, thinking that I'll just come back as a monkey, then a cow, then a praying mantis and then a human again and that time I won't sin.

You're just being dumb for no reason.

You're just being dumb for a reason.

It's ok to not have an intellectual contribution to a thread, so just say that. Nobody is going to believe you when you imply people here actually think they would come back as a lesser lifeform.

You might want to try telling other people what to do, not me.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:58 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:50 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:36 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 8:28 pm
You're just being dumb for no reason.

You're just being dumb for a reason.

It's ok to not have an intellectual contribution to a thread, so just say that. Nobody is going to believe you when you imply people here actually think they would come back as a lesser lifeform.

You might want to try telling other people what to do, not me.

Where did I tell you what to do? I didn't do anything of the sort. I simply stated my opinion that no one is going to fall for your weak strawman.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 10:14 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:58 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:50 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:36 pm

You're just being dumb for a reason.

It's ok to not have an intellectual contribution to a thread, so just say that. Nobody is going to believe you when you imply people here actually think they would come back as a lesser lifeform.

You might want to try telling other people what to do, not me.

Where did I tell you what to do? I didn't do anything of the sort. I simply stated my opinion that no one is going to fall for your weak strawman.

"so just say that" Reads like an order to me. I'm not cool with that.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 10:21 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 10:14 pm

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:58 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:50 pm
It's ok to not have an intellectual contribution to a thread, so just say that. Nobody is going to believe you when you imply people here actually think they would come back as a lesser lifeform.

You might want to try telling other people what to do, not me.

Where did I tell you what to do? I didn't do anything of the sort. I simply stated my opinion that no one is going to fall for your weak strawman.

"so just say that" Reads like an order to me. I'm not cool with that.

Wow! You took that as an order. Do you get offended when someone says Bless you after you sneeze? Or is this just misplaced anger for me pointing out your strawman?

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 8:22 pm

cab wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 11:27 pm Leaning yes. Eternity is a long time and we progress by degrees, grace by grace. Mortality is the day when we work by the sweat of our brow and faith is exercised as we mine more light and glory like unto the parable of the talents. But then comes the night where no work can be done and we either rest and take joy in the fruit of our labor or we mourn and howl.

...and what follows every night? Another day!

Yes!

Alma 30:44
… and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

Even though I lean towards MMP, I think you make a great point here and I want to acknowledge that.

BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 10:47 am

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

Even though I lean towards MMP, I think you make a great point here and I want to acknowledge that.

It's true. Now can't it also be true that one could lay down their immortality off they choose to? May not one willingly descend for the glory of God, the eternal family, and for greater rewards?

Jesus had power over death, and still choose to lay down his life.

Needles to say we have much to learn.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 18th, 2022, 9:07 pm

onefour1 wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:58 pm MMP means you would die more than once but we are only appointed once to die unless through the priesthood you are raised from the dead to continue in mortality as the same person and the same mortality and the same mortal probation.

Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

That might only mean that everyone has to suffer death and what about after judgement where man would be free to live and die again. Near Death Experiences have shown us that a life review or judgement happens immediately after death for each person.

The verse doesn't imply your suppositions. They would then suffer more than one death.

ransomme wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 7:24 am

BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 10:47 am

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

Even though I lean towards MMP, I think you make a great point here and I want to acknowledge that.

It's true. Now can't it also be true that one could lay down their immortality off they choose to? May not one willingly descend for the glory of God, the eternal family, and for greater rewards?

Jesus had power over death, and still choose to lay down his life.

Needles to say we have much to learn.

My personal take on this is that God the Father did not fulfill the calling of the Savior because he had a IMMORTAL body of flesh and bones and could not lay down his life and take it again. Jesus on the other hand, took on a body that could be layed down and taken up again since he did not have an immortal body of flesh and bones due to his being born of Mary. However, he did have the power to take up his body again because of his sinlessness and his being the Only Begotten of the Father. Once Jesus was resurrected, he became like his Father and received an immortal body of flesh and bones and was to be alive forever more.

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

onefour1 wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 8:48 pm The verse doesn't imply your suppositions. They would then suffer more than one death.

The verse doesn't supply a specific meaning. As it is written, the writer very easily could have meant a number of things, like one death per live, one death per each iteration of the plan of salvation, but no matter how he meant it, he doesn't seem to be speaking about what we are talking about. In any case, how can you have eternal lives without each life having a death.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 10:00 pm

onefour1 wrote: ↑December 30th, 2022, 8:48 pm The verse doesn't imply your suppositions. They would then suffer more than one death.

The verse doesn't supply a specific meaning. As it is written, the writer very easily could have meant a number of things, like one death per live, one death per each iteration of the plan of salvation, but no matter how he meant it, he doesn't seem to be speaking about what we are talking about. In any case, how can you have eternal lives without each life having a death.

I don't take the term, "eternal lives" to mean that we all have multiple mortal lives. God has eternal lives (eternal increase) by the fact that he has the power to procreate.

onefour1 wrote: ↑December 31st, 2022, 12:40 pm I don't take the term, "eternal lives" to mean that we all have multiple mortal lives. God has eternal lives (eternal increase) by the fact that he has the power to procreate.

Those are indeed the precepts we were taught, but no interpretation changes the face value of the words. Our having plural lives is what is written. There is no supplemental meaning provided in scriptures that would take us away from that meaning. Intellectual honesty would dictate that we at least acknowledge that the understanding that deviates from what the written word says is provided to us by our learned traditions.