LDS Freedom Forum

I've been thinking about MMPs for a while a now and I voted unsure (leaning towards no). Death is a penalty for disobeying God. If Adam & Eve had not disobeyed they would still be living in the Garden. If the fallen angels had not fallen they would not be sentenced to death come the great judgement. People who live in Zion will be transformed in the "twinkling of an eye" at the end of their lives but they will not suffer death. Death comes to those who disobey God.

The Book of Enoch describes the paths and portals of Angels as they descend to lower kingdoms and arise from lower kingdoms. Arising from a lower kingdom does not necessarily mean that the Angel had to die in order to arise.

As for sealings, this might be when Adam & Eve are permanently joined back together. I remember reading in some Apocryphal text about some angels that were joined and not single. This might be the case of angels who are promised to each other but have not yet been sealed; I don't know. I know that I enjoy reading and pondering about these things and the story of Adam & Eve has always held great fascination for me.

Mike

MikeMaillet wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 4:00 am I've been thinking about MMPs for a while a now and I voted unsure (leaning towards no). Death is a penalty for disobeying God. If Adam & Eve had not disobeyed they would still be living in the Garden. If the fallen angels had not fallen they would not be sentenced to death come the great judgement. People who live in Zion will be transformed in the "twinkling of an eye" at the end of their lives but they will not suffer death. Death comes to those who disobey God.

The Book of Enoch describes the paths and portals of Angels as they descend to lower kingdoms and arise from lower kingdoms. Arising from a lower kingdom does not necessarily mean that the Angel had to die in order to arise.

As for sealings, this might be when Adam & Eve are permanently joined back together. I remember reading in some Apocryphal text about some angels that were joined and not single. This might be the case of angels who are promised to each other but have not yet been sealed; I don't know. I know that I enjoy reading and pondering about these things and the story of Adam & Eve has always held great fascination for me.

Mike

I think I understand where you are coming from. I feel like I was in a similar place. There were several things that moved me to where I am now, which is finding that MMP doctrine has merit, explains a lot, and fits better with eternal progression in mind.

Take Christ for example. He's our "brother", but somehow He was way above us by a huge margin from the beginning. I would always just attribute this to a different quality of intelligence that seeded his spirit. The same for the differences between everyone. But that means that some spirits could just never qualify because they just were never going to be good enough. Is everyone else is just background fodder? That always sat very wrong with me.

Instead it makes more sense to my heart and mind that we have multiple probations in order to perfect ourselves. We have to descend, in order to ascend higher. Which is why Christ descended below all so he could ascend from being a Son God and Savior to becoming a Most High God, a Father.

Maybe different probations have different parameters but I think that it is a part of the plan to keep descending in order to keep ascending, and perfecting ourselves.

ransomme wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 7:20 am

MikeMaillet wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 4:00 am I've been thinking about MMPs for a while a now and I voted unsure (leaning towards no). Death is a penalty for disobeying God. If Adam & Eve had not disobeyed they would still be living in the Garden. If the fallen angels had not fallen they would not be sentenced to death come the great judgement. People who live in Zion will be transformed in the "twinkling of an eye" at the end of their lives but they will not suffer death. Death comes to those who disobey God.

The Book of Enoch describes the paths and portals of Angels as they descend to lower kingdoms and arise from lower kingdoms. Arising from a lower kingdom does not necessarily mean that the Angel had to die in order to arise.

As for sealings, this might be when Adam & Eve are permanently joined back together. I remember reading in some Apocryphal text about some angels that were joined and not single. This might be the case of angels who are promised to each other but have not yet been sealed; I don't know. I know that I enjoy reading and pondering about these things and the story of Adam & Eve has always held great fascination for me.

Mike

I think I understand where you are coming from. I feel like I was in a similar place. There were several things that moved me to where I am now, which is finding that MMP doctrine has merit, explains a lot, and fits better with eternal progression in mind.

Take Christ for example. He's our "brother", but somehow He was way above us by a huge margin from the beginning. I would always just attribute this to a different quality of intelligence that seeded his spirit. The same for the differences between everyone. But that means that some sprouts could just never qualify because they just were never going to be for enough. Like everyone else is just background fodder. That always sat very wrong with me.

Instead it makes more sense to my heart and mind that we have multiple probations in order to perfect ourselves. We have to descend, in order to ascend higher. Which is why Christ descended below all so he could ascend from being a Son God and Savior to becoming a Most High God, a Father.

Maybe different probations have different parameters but I think that it is a part of the plan to keep descending in order to keep ascending, and perfecting ourselves.

That pretty well sums up how I feel at the moment. I find great peace in studying and thinking about these things.

Mike

ransomme wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 2:42 am

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 8:16 pm Hitler wishes MMPs to be a true doctrine.

For the love of all, it is my hope that they are. Think of any friends or family members that could benefit. Thick of those whose opportunities were ended prematurely. Just because they died from an accident, illness, etc. does that mean they are screwed eternally?

Or even think of yourself. Many of us here are more aware than most, perhaps, but still the ability to overcome is a challenge. I hope that I can take advantage of my lot this time around and make great strides in perfecting myself.

Wouldn't it be convenient if we could just sin and sin and sin and God just kept giving us more lives to sin in until we finally decided that we would obey? It's a pretty good excuse to justify our sinning, thinking that I'll just come back as a monkey, then a cow, then a praying mantis and then a human again and that time I won't sin. What would possibly be the reason for ever coming to the point where we obey? Accumulating goodness along the way when all we are doing is doubting and disobeying? That doesn't make sense to me, I'm all for obeying now and not for making philosophical excuses and thinking I'll get around to it in some other life.

MMP.... Keep on comin till you ARE the Messiah

Fun fact:
You could live a thousand lifetimes and you'd never achieve this. None of you

Life is not about that. You're not Him.
You are called to submit as a child. And then you are GIVEN all that He has

It's the whole point of what He did

And to think you leave your body after you're resurrected is directly against the scriptures(Unless you play the liberal progressive word game...where words don't mean what they mean...and it's dealers choice ).

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am MMP.... Keep on comin till you ARE the Messiah

Fun fact:
You could live a thousand lifetimes and you'd never achieve this. None of you

Life is not about that. You're not Him.
You are called to submit as a child. And then you are GIVEN all that He has

It's the whole point of what He did

And to think you leave your body after you're resurrected is directly against the scriptures(Unless you play the liberal progressive word game...where words don't mean what they mean...and it's dealers choice ).

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

John 14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:55 am

ransomme wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 2:42 am

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 8:16 pm Hitler wishes MMPs to be a true doctrine.

For the love of all, it is my hope that they are. Think of any friends or family members that could benefit. Thick of those whose opportunities were ended prematurely. Just because they died from an accident, illness, etc. does that mean they are screwed eternally?

Or even think of yourself. Many of us here are more aware than most, perhaps, but still the ability to overcome is a challenge. I hope that I can take advantage of my lot this time around and make great strides in perfecting myself.

Wouldn't it be convenient if we could just sin and sin and sin and God just kept giving us more lives to sin in until we finally decided that we would obey? It's a pretty good excuse to justify our sinning, thinking that I'll just come back as a monkey, then a cow, then a praying mantis and then a human again and that time I won't sin. What would possibly be the reason for ever coming to the point where we obey? Accumulating goodness along the way when all we are doing is doubting and disobeying? That doesn't make sense to me, I'm all for obeying now and not for making philosophical excuses and thinking I'll get around to it in some other life.

The fundamentalist don't believe that.

They believe you've got to be born as a Jesus, as a Adam etc

That you can't be "God" unless you bleed out every pore for another "round" of souls.

That you can't be "God" unless you strip yourself of your celestial body and "fall" to sin for a new mankind

It's unscriptural at best and blasphemous at worst

If the ultimate goal is to become like our Father and his Son, Jesus Christ ... how else are you going to get there if not through multiple rounds?

I have not met anyone who comes close to either of those two gods by the time their life is over.

Luke wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:12 am

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am MMP.... Keep on comin till you ARE the Messiah

Fun fact:
You could live a thousand lifetimes and you'd never achieve this. None of you

Life is not about that. You're not Him.
You are called to submit as a child. And then you are GIVEN all that He has

It's the whole point of what He did

And to think you leave your body after you're resurrected is directly against the scriptures(Unless you play the liberal progressive word game...where words don't mean what they mean...and it's dealers choice ).

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

John 14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

He was literally talking about healing, raising the dead, etc.
You know.... Changing reality and matter of the dirt you stand on.

You're taking it out of context.

There's a reason people who can't do these things come up with these other things so to fit a mold

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:19 am

Luke wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:12 am

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am MMP.... Keep on comin till you ARE the Messiah

Fun fact:
You could live a thousand lifetimes and you'd never achieve this. None of you

Life is not about that. You're not Him.
You are called to submit as a child. And then you are GIVEN all that He has

It's the whole point of what He did

And to think you leave your body after you're resurrected is directly against the scriptures(Unless you play the liberal progressive word game...where words don't mean what they mean...and it's dealers choice ).

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

John 14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

He was literally talking about healing, raising the dead, etc.
You know.... Changing reality and matter of the dirt you stand on.

You're taking it out of context.

There's a reason people who can't do these things come up with these other things so to fit a mold

Jesus literally says that you will do greater works than Him.

If that is true then clearly there’s more to progression than you believe.

He also said that “I do nothing except what I have seen my Father do”.

Joseph Smith interpreted that to mean the Father was a Saviour once, too.

How are we able to get to where He is without travelling the same road?

Answer: you can’t.

Luke wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:20 am

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:19 am

Luke wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:12 am

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:04 am MMP.... Keep on comin till you ARE the Messiah

Fun fact:
You could live a thousand lifetimes and you'd never achieve this. None of you

Life is not about that. You're not Him.
You are called to submit as a child. And then you are GIVEN all that He has

It's the whole point of what He did

And to think you leave your body after you're resurrected is directly against the scriptures(Unless you play the liberal progressive word game...where words don't mean what they mean...and it's dealers choice ).

Alma11
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
+++++++++++

John 14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

He was literally talking about healing, raising the dead, etc.
You know.... Changing reality and matter of the dirt you stand on.

You're taking it out of context.

There's a reason people who can't do these things come up with these other things so to fit a mold

Jesus literally says that you will do greater works than Him.

If that is true then clearly there’s more to progression than you believe.

He also said that “I do nothing except what I have seen my Father do”.

Joseph Smith interpreted that to mean the Father was a Saviour once, too.

How are we able to get to where He is without travelling the same road?

Answer: you can’t.

Lol No that's what you think the answer is.

You're twisting the gospel by teaching this.

Jesus Christ gives you all that is His. You don't take it
You inherit all that is His.

If you think you don't get any of that unless you do your own atonement....this is an antichrist doctrine.

Who you going to be Jesus to, Luke?

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:28 am Lol No that's what you think the answer is.

You're twisting the gospel by teaching this.

Jesus Christ gives you all that is His. You don't take it
You inherit all that is His.

If you think you don't get any of that unless you do your own atonement....this is an antichrist doctrine.

Sorry nightlight… but I’m going to stick with the doctrines of a man whose doctrines I have received a witness of time and time again, a man who “communed with Jehovah”, and actually was sent by God to do a prophesied work.

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:28 am Who you going to be Jesus to, Luke?

Not sure, I haven’t met them yet.

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

These are great words

Nay, on two accounts.

First, Doctrine and Covenants 138, 17:
Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy. Besides that, the scriptures are replete with statements concerning Christ being the Resurrection, and us becoming joint-heirs with Him. He didn't inherit repeated death, He inherited Immortality and Eternal Life.

Second, because one mortal probation is full of more than enough horserghs. I already do not expect anything worth the pain, anxiety, and lack of fulfilment of this life. The idea of taking on a second one is almost literally unthinkable.

I have been taught by the spirit that eternal progression is real. That Joseph's final sermon (KFD) does contain the key mysteries of the last dispensation that were heralded for centuries and this means some form of MMP.

I'm pretty much a believer in one-life per creation event, not reincarnation. However, several teachings of the millennium surely make it seem like some perhaps many will return in the millennium to finish their work in this creation. given I can only laugh when people think they can return here in that time with a resurrected body to prepare for (finish) their resurrection, one must feel they are, as Jesus says "reborn".

I love how Jesus said we needed to be "reborn" then when poor Nicodemus couldn't figure the deepness out, he through him a simple bone (like with all parables) a out simply a spiritual rebirth. Of course spiritual rebirth is important, but only part of the truth, like all simply understandings of his parables.

Read KFD, here you will see two intractable facts. 1) everyone will return to live with our eternal parents, 2) few will after this life (and a bit of a millennium will do little to move them forward) Even Jesus said "few there be that find it". The only answer is MMP.

Lastly, there are those who question sealing and MMP. The issue is that we need much broad and depth of knowledge, many lives. But only after we have achieved or earned or gained (pick your term) the highest level of the CK will marriages and sealings matter. Before that, they are, at best practice. There is no confusion or loss. If one enters the new and everlasting covenant AND it is sealed by HSoP, it will be permanent, if not, it just will not be. There is much to say here, but I would say one must hear it with open minds then let the spirit teach it, as mysteries can ONLY be comprehended by the spirit. (like the parables)

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 8:55 am

ransomme wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 2:42 am

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 8:16 pm Hitler wishes MMPs to be a true doctrine.

For the love of all, it is my hope that they are. Think of any friends or family members that could benefit. Thick of those whose opportunities were ended prematurely. Just because they died from an accident, illness, etc. does that mean they are screwed eternally?

Or even think of yourself. Many of us here are more aware than most, perhaps, but still the ability to overcome is a challenge. I hope that I can take advantage of my lot this time around and make great strides in perfecting myself.

Wouldn't it be convenient if we could just sin and sin and sin and God just kept giving us more lives to sin in until we finally decided that we would obey? It's a pretty good excuse to justify our sinning, thinking that I'll just come back as a monkey, then a cow, then a praying mantis and then a human again and that time I won't sin. What would possibly be the reason for ever coming to the point where we obey? Accumulating goodness along the way when all we are doing is doubting and disobeying? That doesn't make sense to me, I'm all for obeying now and not for making philosophical excuses and thinking I'll get around to it in some other life.

That's not how it goes at all. One can descend as much as one can ascend. And one can't do it all in one go, so either way it's needed.

Jesus has to ascend to the position of Son before he could become a Savior of worlds, and do the things that he saw His Father do. This is how Christ becomes or Father, a Most High God.

I find it odd that God is love and merciful, yet you think one tiny spec of of time in a single
brief mortality fixes or position for eternity. That is pretty much prima facie absurd.

Not to mention, those who don't repent, "... must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—"
D&C 19:17-18

nightlight wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 9:16 am The fundamentalist don't believe that.

They believe you've got to be born as a Jesus, as a Adam etc

That you can't be "God" unless you bleed out every pore for another "round" of souls.

That you can't be "God" unless you strip yourself of your celestial body and "fall" to sin for a new mankind

It's unscriptural at best and blasphemous at worst

I did not know that!
I agree that is not right.

ransomme wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 10:50 am That's not how it goes at all. One can descend as much as one can ascend. And one can't do it all in one go, so either way it's needed.

Jesus has to ascend to the position of Son before he could become a Savior of worlds, and do the things that he saw His Father do. This is how Christ becomes or Father, a Most High God.

I find it odd that God is love and merciful, yet you think one tiny spec of of time in a single
brief mortality fixes or position for eternity. That is pretty much prima facie absurd.

Not to mention, those who don't repent, "... must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—"
D&C 19:17-18

I don't agree with what you say. But I did read it.

A certain man prayed once about multiple rebirths, reincarnations, this is what the Lord told him......

"Verily I gave My servant Isaiah great insights into the secrets of My Heaven,
And also of My dealings amongst the children of men,
My ancient covenant people, even the House of Israel oft strayed after foreign gods,
That were no gods at all and they hungered like dogs for bones from the tables of the nations around them,
Hence oft they were caught up in every falsehood and tradition led on by devils whom sought to mislead them.
I am the Lord their God, their Redeemer, their King I would tell them thru my servant Isaiah,
That there is no God beside Me,
Nor is there any other God that was formed before Me, nor shall there be after Me...
I share My glory with no other,
For I alone am the God of the Heavens and the earths and all that is in them,
And it is I even Jesus Christ that formed all creation both visible and invisble to the eyes of mortal men..
Whom in the meridian of time as foretold by my prophets and messengers,
Would grace this particular earth with the fullness of My presence and pay the price of creations broken laws,
Wether it be in the Heavens and all their hosts or apon the earth which you stand apon........
Many times my ancient covenant people were led astray by the nations around them,
Whom had long since rejected the teachings of their father Noah for He had the fullness of my gospel,
And they cast Me aside boasting in their pride that they could earn their way into heavenly bliss,
By endless comings and goings apon this earth taking apon themselves tabernacle after tabernacle,
Having vain imaginations and many prophets among them that taught them such to lead them into eternal misery,
They took the principle of that Knowlegde handed down to them from Noah known amongst men as a former existance,
And they added apon it an endless cycle of rebirths,
And this was done thru the workings of that spirit that rebelled against me in the beginning,
Whom had vowed in his wrath to destroy the knowlegde of a Redeemer whom was to come apon the face of the earth,
And bring about the salvation of men thru faith in His name...
Hence the evil one spread his dark cloud over the hearts and minds of men by giving them the sayings and teachings of endless rebirths,
In his attempts to destroy the great and simple plan of Salvation,
For it is appointed once for man to lay down his mortal tabernacle and once to take it up again in perfection after he has been Judged worthy to obtain such.....
Behold this is my doctrine, My way and the only way for man to know of at this time concerning these matters,
For men cannot endure my mysteries, save it be a few and even then they are told to keep it to themselves if such mysteries are revealed unto them,
For it is not my will to have my doctrines rendered asunder as they were in ancient times that gives the evil one great power,
And sets at nought My sacrifice and seeks to rob Me of My glory and of creations hope of salvation thru faith in My redeeming blood....Amen

"Jesus of Nazerath is Lord"

cachemagic wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 6:01 pm Although I believe that we do go through multiple mortalities, it creates some interesting dilemmas when you combine it with family sealings. If you have multiple mortalities, how many families can you be sealed to. Or do the same people end up getting married in each mortality?

Actually, the idea of sealings brings up some additional questions. If a couple are sealed together with all their children and each of the children are sealed together with their spouse and all their children, etc. etc. Then you don't have a single-family sealing. You have whole generations or even a whole creation all sealed together. Just as families see their children move away from home, I wonder if the only sealing that would matter would be the one with your spouse.

To the last question, no.

To the question about do the same people end up getting married in mortality, or how many families can you be sealed to I'm very unsure about the former and fairly sure about the latter, but it would take a lengthy post to make my case. Probably best if you ponder on it yourself if you are interested.

Jamescm wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 10:25 am Nay, on two accounts.

First, Doctrine and Covenants 138, 17:
Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy. Besides that, the scriptures are replete with statements concerning Christ being the Resurrection, and us becoming joint-heirs with Him. He didn't inherit repeated death, He inherited Immortality and Eternal Life.

Second, because one mortal probation is full of more than enough horserghs. I already do not expect anything worth the pain, anxiety, and lack of fulfilment of this life. The idea of taking on a second one is almost literally unthinkable.

Was it enough for a child soldier in Africa? Or young Jews sent to Auschwitz? An aboriginal in Australia 500 years ago? A teenage Incan girl sacrificed to the gods? A child born in slavery? And so on?

Everything can be for our benefit, but not good enough for exhalation.

Maybe you have your view because you were born now, and have the knowledge that you do?

NeveR wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 9:18 pm How is MMP different from reincarnation?

Other ways I've heard reincarnation exposed is being born/come down in a creation as oxigen or bacteria, filling the measure of our creation then coming down as a rock, then plant, then various animals in the same creation period until we come down as humans, the highest of form.

ransomme wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 12:55 pm

Jamescm wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 10:25 am Nay, on two accounts.

First, Doctrine and Covenants 138, 17:
Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy. Besides that, the scriptures are replete with statements concerning Christ being the Resurrection, and us becoming joint-heirs with Him. He didn't inherit repeated death, He inherited Immortality and Eternal Life.

Second, because one mortal probation is full of more than enough horserghs. I already do not expect anything worth the pain, anxiety, and lack of fulfilment of this life. The idea of taking on a second one is almost literally unthinkable.

Was it enough for a child soldier in Africa? Or young Jews sent to Auschwitz? An aboriginal in Australia 500 years ago? A teenage Incan girl sacrificed to the gods? A child born in slavery? And so on?

Everything can be for our benefit, but not good enough for exhalation.

Maybe you have your view because you were born now, and have the knowledge that you do?

Was the atonement of Jesus Christ enough? The answer to that question will give you the answer to all your questions. Raise your hand if you'd like to go through puberty more than once....be a teenager....or be a frog who likes to eat flies.....or a bacteria...or pond scum......or whatever organism your higher power decides you should be to start over.....

this will make one question, if?


https://youtu.be/-JrSi7rWWpM