Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

[Joan7]

I would ask them what miracles they have performed?

[Joan7]

The summer that Joseph and Hyrum were killed, Brigham Young issued an edict saying that all members had to tithe, that no one could be baptized save they consecrate to the Lord first, and that the leaders would be exempt from tithing and paid a stipend.

[The Red Pill]

The summer that Joseph and Hyrum were killed, Brigham Young issued an edict saying that all members had to tithe, that no one could be baptized save they consecrate to the Lord first, and that the leaders would be exempt from tithing and paid a stipend.

Consecrate to the Lord...actually meant consecrate to Brigham. He dipped into tithing to enrich himself...becoming the first millionaire west of the Mississippi.

Joseph by contrast was constantly giving the shirt off his back to anyone in need...and tithing was optional...as in maintaining free agency, no strings attached. Joseph taught that tithing was to be used to lift the poor.

[Say what?]

I would stick with the first two questions.

[Letfreedumbring]

The summer that Joseph and Hyrum were killed, Brigham Young issued an edict saying that all members had to tithe, that no one could be baptized save they consecrate to the Lord first, and that the leaders would be exempt from tithing and paid a stipend.

You forgot they use to pay the patriarch per blessing. This is how Joseph Smith Sr. made money when the church started.Then after the last Smith related Patriarch of the Church died, they never re-filled the position.

[HereWeGo]

The summer that Joseph and Hyrum were killed, Brigham Young issued an edict saying that all members had to tithe, that no one could be baptized save they consecrate to the Lord first, and that the leaders would be exempt from tithing and paid a stipend.

I would love to have the reference to this edict. I haven't heard this before. I like to have a reference to in case people ask me for one.

[Robin Hood]

The summer that Joseph and Hyrum were killed, Brigham Young issued an edict saying that all members had to tithe, that no one could be baptized save they consecrate to the Lord first, and that the leaders would be exempt from tithing and paid a stipend.

You forgot they use to pay the patriarch per blessing. This is how Joseph Smith Sr. made money when the church started.Then after the last Smith related Patriarch of the Church died, they never re-filled the position.

They abolished the position well before he died.

[Robin Hood]

Here's a question...

How come you don't bother to mention...REMEMBERING THE BIRTH OF CHRIST...on your list of what Christmas should be about???

Because he wasn't born then. We celebrate his birth every April 6th with a special church celebration, obviously.

Not so fast...

"In 1915, James Talmage published “Jesus the Christ” and proposed that Jesus was born on April 6th, 1 B.C. He was the first LDS author or scholar to propose this. So where did he get this come from? He states that D&C 20 is the source for this interpretation...

Neither Joseph Smith nor any other prophets or apostles until Talmage's time believed that this introduction to the revelation had anything to do with the birth of Christ....

So, it seems, all this April 6th business started with a misinterpretation by Talmage, which has been perpetuated without much examination. Those who did give it some study rejected his assumption. The apostles and prophets have not been united on this point, so it is not an accepted revelation...

Two conclusions emerge from this study. The first is this: in the five-year period examined (5 bc to 1 bc), there is no year in which April 6 could have been the birth date of Jesus. This conclusion may disappoint some Latter-day Saints who have been conditioned to think of April 6 as the Savior’s birthday...

The second conclusion perhaps goes without saying: the traditional date of Christmas, December 25, falls within the window of time in which it would appear that Jesus must have been born."


Yet another pitfall for unexamined church history.

Source:https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaint ... me_of_the/

Actually, there is now some very compelling evidence that Talmage was correct. I never used to believe the April 6th notion, but I have changed my mind.

[Letfreedumbring]

The exact date does seem odd.

Member: When was Christ born?
Church: Why April 6th! Given to us by revelation of course. (specific answer)

Member: What exactly did Christ do from the time he was born until his ministry?
Church: Well we know he was teaching in the temple at a very young age from the description in the bible.
He was just about his father's business! (emotional appeal)

Member: But his ministry, also his Father's business, was detailed in more than one sentence in New Testament?
Church: We don't really know at this time and it is not important for our salvation. (vague reply shutdown)

[Maroriginal1]

No need for birthdate clarity. Shepherds only “watched” over their flocks during the lambing season. They were there to assist in the births. That only happens in the early spring. April 6th is more plausible than December 25th.

[ransomme]

RMN, will you renounce your membership and divulge all your doings in skull and bones & owl and key?

If not will you renounce your position as President?

[BeNotDeceived]

I would ask them what miracles they have performed?

The corporation is Kaput beyond baptisms and patriarchal blessings.

Please don’t expect anything more.

[Mamabear]

61232461-FED9-4A89-9208-78BBA11132BA.jpeg (285.76 KiB) Viewed 387 times

Confused at the price that so fully the prophets paid

I tremble to know that they paid for it with our tithes

While outside it's doors all the homeless are left to die

Oh it is profitable that they should lie to me enough to steal from me

Oh it is profitable! Profitable for thee


(From Reddit)

[FoundMyEden]

No need for birthdate clarity. Shepherds only “watched” over their flocks during the lambing season. They were there to assist in the births. That only happens in the early spring. April 6th is more plausible than December 25th.

Can you clarify a little bit as to why you think shepherds only watch over their flocks during lambing season? I was under the impression that Shepherds watched their flocks during all seasons and especially in the evenings.

[Robin Hood]

No need for birthdate clarity. Shepherds only “watched” over their flocks during the lambing season. They were there to assist in the births. That only happens in the early spring. April 6th is more plausible than December 25th.

Can you clarify a little bit as to why you think shepherds only watch over their flocks during lambing season? I was under the impression that Shepherds watched their flocks during all seasons and especially in the evenings.

True.
The reason shepherds watched over their flocks was to deter predation and poaching.

[endlessQuestions]

I have a new question I'd like to add to my letter:

"If I double my tithing, will it REALLY double my blessings?"

[Luke]

While outside it's doors all the homeless are left to die

This is bang on. Every time I have been there, there are always homeless outside. Downtown as a whole is shocking. I remember going to City Creek in January this year and seeing how cold the homeless looked. Meanwhile there were propaganda posters around telling people not to give to them. Shambolic.

[TheChristian]

While outside it's doors all the homeless are left to die

This is bang on. Every time I have been there, there are always homeless outside. Downtown as a whole is shocking. I remember going to City Creek in January this year and seeing how cold the homeless looked. Meanwhile there were propaganda posters around telling people not to give to them. Shambolic.

Is there no Christian homeless shelters and refuges for the homeless to go to there Luke, does the LDS church have any centres for the poor or the homeless there?

[Maroriginal1]

No need for birthdate clarity. Shepherds only “watched” over their flocks during the lambing season. They were there to assist in the births. That only happens in the early spring. April 6th is more plausible than December 25th.

Can you clarify a little bit as to why you think shepherds only watch over their flocks during lambing season? I was under the impression that Shepherds watched their flocks during all seasons and especially in the evenings.

https://josephsmithfoundation.org/when ... interview/

Jonathan Cahn does a much better job describing the birth season of Christ than I can. He articulates multiple points towards a spring birth.

[Moroni104]

If you were going to write a letter to the leaders of the Church about your concerns and questions, what would you write? PLEASE SHARE YOUR CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS!!!!!!

Jonubg,

I think your original post was the best. You summed up a lot of important issues.

[thaabit]

Here's a question...

How come you don't bother to mention...REMEMBERING THE BIRTH OF CHRIST...on your list of what Christmas should be about???

Because he wasn't born then. We celebrate his birth every April 6th with a special church celebration, obviously.

Not so fast...

"In 1915, James Talmage published “Jesus the Christ” and proposed that Jesus was born on April 6th, 1 B.C. He was the first LDS author or scholar to propose this. So where did he get this come from? He states that D&C 20 is the source for this interpretation...

Neither Joseph Smith nor any other prophets or apostles until Talmage's time believed that this introduction to the revelation had anything to do with the birth of Christ....

So, it seems, all this April 6th business started with a misinterpretation by Talmage, which has been perpetuated without much examination. Those who did give it some study rejected his assumption. The apostles and prophets have not been united on this point, so it is not an accepted revelation...

Two conclusions emerge from this study. The first is this: in the five-year period examined (5 bc to 1 bc), there is no year in which April 6 could have been the birth date of Jesus. This conclusion may disappoint some Latter-day Saints who have been conditioned to think of April 6 as the Savior’s birthday...

The second conclusion perhaps goes without saying: the traditional date of Christmas, December 25, falls within the window of time in which it would appear that Jesus must have been born."


Yet another pitfall for unexamined church history.

Source:https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaint ... me_of_the/

I've been celebrating in vain all these years. I guess I'll return to my pagan roots.

[logonbump]

Would you please answer the three big questions of our time? These questions concern the very matters the church professes to have answers for, but you have not given anything substantial for a reasonable person to hold on to to start developing faith. Faith dies in kids before it has time to develop.

1- a response to darwinists and their fossils with a gospel explanation of how and when mankind came to be on the earth.

Life on this Earth has been going on for a long time and only in the garden was there no death, and for a limited period of time, is my guess. There are many things we don't know about the creation. It only got about three or four chapters, period. I would think that intelligent design and a limited amount of evolution would be a couple of the processes God used to create the Earth's life.

2-If Adam was created 5,000 years ago why are there 30,000 year old human or humanoid artifacts? The Biblical account of human history doesn't match archeology, so how can the two be circled into one truth?

I wonder if there were pre-adamites. Just because there weren't men on the Earth when Adam was created doesn't mean that there were never men on the Earth. Or different humanoids. Or maybe in Genesis it just meant that there were no godly men on the Earth. I don't know. We have such limited information.

3-A response to The LGBTQ movement. Why do some people have natural attractions that are not harmonious with traditional family roles? Is queer part of eternal identity? Is this a symptom of an advanced urban society? A result of chemicals, or was it here all along and the world finally accepted it?

It's a mental illness caused by hormone/chemical pollution/tampering, social conditioning, and abuse, I think. It's come and gone. Some ancient societies were incredibly homosexual and then they self-destructed/were destroyed. Ancient Greek males were 50-85% pederasts and now I'm guessing it would be a low single-digit percentage pederasts. So my guess is social and psychological conditioning can play a very big role in this sort of stuff.

I've heard that many secret societies have a prominent homosexual bent, but I don't have any personal knowledge of that.

In response to question two, The video in Creator's thread from yesterday about the Book of Mormon provided some good answers to all the possibilities to pre-Adamic man and previous early creations:

I found this to video to be very interesting and insightful regarding symbolism in the Book of Mormon. I've watched a bunch of Rob Kay's other videos and I highly recommend subscribing to his channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVqKuJXc7hY

[Craig Johnson]

If you were going to write a letter to the leaders of the Church about your concerns and questions, what would you write? PLEASE SHARE YOUR CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS!!!!!!

My concern is, when I shovel snow, it snows more, should I not shovel snow?
My question is, I don't stomp hard enough, how can I stomp harder?