Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

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Ancalagon
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Ancalagon »

jonubg wrote: December 8th, 2022, 10:59 pm Our FTMs are encouraged not to go door to door and not to do mall displays.
Pardon my ignorance, but what are FTMs?
When I see that I think "female to male" trans, which it obviously is not in context of your post. One of the hazards of living in a post-modern society I guess.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Cruiserdude »

Ancalagon wrote: December 9th, 2022, 11:01 am
jonubg wrote: December 8th, 2022, 10:59 pm Our FTMs are encouraged not to go door to door and not to do mall displays.
Pardon my ignorance, but what are FTMs?
When I see that I think "female to male" trans, which it obviously is not in context of your post. One of the hazards of living in a post-modern society I guess.
Full time missionary

tribrac
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by tribrac »

Would you please answer the three big questions of our time? These questions concern the very matters the church professes to have answers for, but you have not given anything substantial for a reasonable person to hold on to to start developing faith. Faith dies in kids before it has time to develop.

1- a response to darwinists and their fossils with a gospel explanation of how and when mankind came to be on the earth.

2-If Adam was created 5,000 years ago why are there 30,000 year old human or humanoid artifacts? The Biblical account of human history doesn't match archeology, so how can the two be circled into one truth?

3-A response to The LGBTQ movement. Why do some people have natural attractions that are not harmonious with traditional family roles? Is queer part of eternal identity? Is this a symptom of an advanced urban society? A result of chemicals, or was it here all along and the world finally accepted it?
Last edited by tribrac on December 9th, 2022, 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Fred
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Fred »

Robin Hood wrote: December 9th, 2022, 2:29 am
jonubg wrote: December 8th, 2022, 10:59 pm If you were going to write a letter to the leaders of the Church about your concerns and questions, what would you write? PLEASE SHARE YOUR CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS!!!!!!

My questions:
Why are you stressing a Vaccine that has proven to be harmful and contrary to faith and the Word of Wisdom?
Why are you promoting climate change at BYU?
Why do our missionaries have so many rules that prevent them from proselyting? Our FTMs are encouraged not to go door to door and not to do mall displays. Also, they are not allowed to go on splits with members or go to members houses for dinner.
Why did we get rid of the investigator class during Sunday school?
Why is Deseret News so one sided to the left?
Why did you support the protection of marriage act?
Why are we supporting agenda 2030?
Why do we donate money to charity organizations such as UNICEFF that do not share our beliefs?

My concerns:
Pandering, I joined the Church in 1983 when Spencer W Kimball was president. I was called on my mission by President Kimball. I have never experienced church leaders pandering to the world until the last few years it is very confusing. Can you give me an explanation for why you are doing this? Could it be like Abraham when he told the Egyptians that Sarah was his sister? Or is it from some other reason such as keeping the Temples open.

I have a very conservative constitutional friend who has investigated the church and has had the missionaries go through the lessons with him twice. This was before the pandemic and the left turn that the Church has made. I fear that once he finds out that the church is promoting the phony vaccine and other liberal agendas, he would never want to join so I have not been promoting the church to him. I feel like we are alienating the very people we would want to join our church. Why is this?

We have a local Christian church in my area that did not promote the phony pandemic or adhere to the overreaches of local government and their membership went from 700 members to 6000 members in a 6-month period. I wonder what our church could have done if we would have stuck to conservative constitutional values during the pandemic.

Why does the church not stress or teach the constitution. Most members now little about the importance of the constitution or why it is so important to our future. I wish we could study the constitution for a year in Sunday school like we do with each scripture canon. I laugh when I hear the prophecy of how the elders will someday step forward to save the constitution. :(

Why do the church leaders no longer talk about preparedness?
Just one initial point; I currently teach the investigators class during Sunday school.

Secondly, there are more church members outside the US. Why would they have any interest in spending a year studying the US Constitution?

I agree with your points about missionary work. It seems to be all about ensuring the missionaries have a good time.
Also agree with the rest of your comments.
Being free should not be limited to the United States. Now that no one is free, the constitution acts as a guide for any nation of people wishing to be.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Robin Hood »

Fred wrote: December 9th, 2022, 11:26 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 9th, 2022, 2:29 am
jonubg wrote: December 8th, 2022, 10:59 pm If you were going to write a letter to the leaders of the Church about your concerns and questions, what would you write? PLEASE SHARE YOUR CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS!!!!!!

My questions:
Why are you stressing a Vaccine that has proven to be harmful and contrary to faith and the Word of Wisdom?
Why are you promoting climate change at BYU?
Why do our missionaries have so many rules that prevent them from proselyting? Our FTMs are encouraged not to go door to door and not to do mall displays. Also, they are not allowed to go on splits with members or go to members houses for dinner.
Why did we get rid of the investigator class during Sunday school?
Why is Deseret News so one sided to the left?
Why did you support the protection of marriage act?
Why are we supporting agenda 2030?
Why do we donate money to charity organizations such as UNICEFF that do not share our beliefs?

My concerns:
Pandering, I joined the Church in 1983 when Spencer W Kimball was president. I was called on my mission by President Kimball. I have never experienced church leaders pandering to the world until the last few years it is very confusing. Can you give me an explanation for why you are doing this? Could it be like Abraham when he told the Egyptians that Sarah was his sister? Or is it from some other reason such as keeping the Temples open.

I have a very conservative constitutional friend who has investigated the church and has had the missionaries go through the lessons with him twice. This was before the pandemic and the left turn that the Church has made. I fear that once he finds out that the church is promoting the phony vaccine and other liberal agendas, he would never want to join so I have not been promoting the church to him. I feel like we are alienating the very people we would want to join our church. Why is this?

We have a local Christian church in my area that did not promote the phony pandemic or adhere to the overreaches of local government and their membership went from 700 members to 6000 members in a 6-month period. I wonder what our church could have done if we would have stuck to conservative constitutional values during the pandemic.

Why does the church not stress or teach the constitution. Most members now little about the importance of the constitution or why it is so important to our future. I wish we could study the constitution for a year in Sunday school like we do with each scripture canon. I laugh when I hear the prophecy of how the elders will someday step forward to save the constitution. :(

Why do the church leaders no longer talk about preparedness?
Just one initial point; I currently teach the investigators class during Sunday school.

Secondly, there are more church members outside the US. Why would they have any interest in spending a year studying the US Constitution?

I agree with your points about missionary work. It seems to be all about ensuring the missionaries have a good time.
Also agree with the rest of your comments.
Being free should not be limited to the United States. Now that no one is free, the constitution acts as a guide for any nation of people wishing to be.
Surely they would study their own constitution.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Ancalagon wrote: December 9th, 2022, 11:01 am
jonubg wrote: December 8th, 2022, 10:59 pm Our FTMs are encouraged not to go door to door and not to do mall displays.
Pardon my ignorance, but what are FTMs?
When I see that I think "female to male" trans, which it obviously is not in context of your post. One of the hazards of living in a post-modern society I guess.
I thought the same thing :?

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

:idea:
The Red Pill wrote: December 9th, 2022, 7:46 am The Church went into FULL BLOWN apostasy with Brigham Young....they don't give a rats.
The sum and substance of the church in 15 words or less.

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Fred
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Fred »

Robin Hood wrote: December 9th, 2022, 12:02 pm
Fred wrote: December 9th, 2022, 11:26 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 9th, 2022, 2:29 am
jonubg wrote: December 8th, 2022, 10:59 pm If you were going to write a letter to the leaders of the Church about your concerns and questions, what would you write? PLEASE SHARE YOUR CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS!!!!!!

My questions:
Why are you stressing a Vaccine that has proven to be harmful and contrary to faith and the Word of Wisdom?
Why are you promoting climate change at BYU?
Why do our missionaries have so many rules that prevent them from proselyting? Our FTMs are encouraged not to go door to door and not to do mall displays. Also, they are not allowed to go on splits with members or go to members houses for dinner.
Why did we get rid of the investigator class during Sunday school?
Why is Deseret News so one sided to the left?
Why did you support the protection of marriage act?
Why are we supporting agenda 2030?
Why do we donate money to charity organizations such as UNICEFF that do not share our beliefs?

My concerns:
Pandering, I joined the Church in 1983 when Spencer W Kimball was president. I was called on my mission by President Kimball. I have never experienced church leaders pandering to the world until the last few years it is very confusing. Can you give me an explanation for why you are doing this? Could it be like Abraham when he told the Egyptians that Sarah was his sister? Or is it from some other reason such as keeping the Temples open.

I have a very conservative constitutional friend who has investigated the church and has had the missionaries go through the lessons with him twice. This was before the pandemic and the left turn that the Church has made. I fear that once he finds out that the church is promoting the phony vaccine and other liberal agendas, he would never want to join so I have not been promoting the church to him. I feel like we are alienating the very people we would want to join our church. Why is this?

We have a local Christian church in my area that did not promote the phony pandemic or adhere to the overreaches of local government and their membership went from 700 members to 6000 members in a 6-month period. I wonder what our church could have done if we would have stuck to conservative constitutional values during the pandemic.

Why does the church not stress or teach the constitution. Most members now little about the importance of the constitution or why it is so important to our future. I wish we could study the constitution for a year in Sunday school like we do with each scripture canon. I laugh when I hear the prophecy of how the elders will someday step forward to save the constitution. :(

Why do the church leaders no longer talk about preparedness?
Just one initial point; I currently teach the investigators class during Sunday school.

Secondly, there are more church members outside the US. Why would they have any interest in spending a year studying the US Constitution?

I agree with your points about missionary work. It seems to be all about ensuring the missionaries have a good time.
Also agree with the rest of your comments.
Being free should not be limited to the United States. Now that no one is free, the constitution acts as a guide for any nation of people wishing to be.
Surely they would study their own constitution.
Good plan. Particularly if it was inspired by God.

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BenMcCrea
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by BenMcCrea »

Letfreedumbring wrote: December 9th, 2022, 1:28 am Patience. We must be prepared before we can hear the answers.

Stay tuned for the next conference...

Keep paying your tithing and Don't forget to drink your ovaltine.
You forgot the vitamins. Don’t forget the vitamins. 💊

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Fred
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Fred »

BenMcCrea wrote: December 9th, 2022, 12:46 pm
Letfreedumbring wrote: December 9th, 2022, 1:28 am Patience. We must be prepared before we can hear the answers.

Stay tuned for the next conference...

Keep paying your tithing and Don't forget to drink your ovaltine.
You forgot the vitamins. Don’t forget the vitamins. 💊
I'd be more convinced if he had said Ivermectin.

Atrasado
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Atrasado »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: December 9th, 2022, 10:40 am I wrote the leaders a letter when I was in president Monson's Ward before I left the church 10 years ago. My two main concerns were their treatment of the poor when they are gajillionaires and responsible for making sure there's no poor among them, and the fact that they have absolutely zero claim to any kind of actual spiritual experiences or meeting with the Lord - which means they took their thrones falsely as they are not supposed to be sitting in those seats unless they've met the Lord face to face and are acting according to his actual instructions. If they're not able to meet with the Lord face to face somebody else is supposed to be sitting in those seats who can not only claim but demonstrate that they are.

So they refused to answer my letter, and when I wrote another one explaining that they owe me an answer as a member of the church challenging them with criteria they themselves claim they should be fulfilling, they mocked me and said they have no answer.

So then I left the church and now 10 years later I have learned all kinds of new things.

So today I would ask them about the World reset and the mud flood temples 200 yrs ago, the fake genealogy, the trafficking through LDS adoption agency, the billion color flag the church is adopting and all the rules they threw out since I lost my recommend for stupid things they don't care about anymore, how Oaks helped Russell Nelson's daughter's pedophile ring disappear, I'd ask about all that railroad stuff too, and about how half the leaders (we know about so far) are members of skull and bones or other evil secret societies and how their names are on literally every entity running Utah and the surrounding states, why the leaders and their wives are walking around with the wrong gender markers like the elite gender inversion couples in Hollywood are, I'd ask about the alliance with the Rothschilds and their funding they've been taking since the beginning, their alliance with the New World order and Satan... prolly ask about some other things too.🤔

(All the edits were typos.)
(One more just for fun)
I hadn't heard about Oaks' involvement in the Dick and Brenda Miles scandal. What happened there?

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Robin Hood
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Robin Hood »

Fred wrote: December 9th, 2022, 12:41 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 9th, 2022, 12:02 pm
Fred wrote: December 9th, 2022, 11:26 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 9th, 2022, 2:29 am

Just one initial point; I currently teach the investigators class during Sunday school.

Secondly, there are more church members outside the US. Why would they have any interest in spending a year studying the US Constitution?

I agree with your points about missionary work. It seems to be all about ensuring the missionaries have a good time.
Also agree with the rest of your comments.
Being free should not be limited to the United States. Now that no one is free, the constitution acts as a guide for any nation of people wishing to be.
Surely they would study their own constitution.
Good plan. Particularly if it was inspired by God.
Gordon B. Hinckley once said that the British constitution was the greatest arrangement ever created by man over time, and the US constitution was the greatest ever created by man at the stroke of a pen.

Atrasado
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Atrasado »

tribrac wrote: December 9th, 2022, 11:18 am Would you please answer the three big questions of our time? These questions concern the very matters the church professes to have answers for, but you have not given anything substantial for a reasonable person to hold on to to start developing faith. Faith dies in kids before it has time to develop.

1- a response to darwinists and their fossils with a gospel explanation of how and when mankind came to be on the earth.

Life on this Earth has been going on for a long time and only in the garden was there no death, and for a limited period of time, is my guess. There are many things we don't know about the creation. It only got about three or four chapters, period. I would think that intelligent design and a limited amount of evolution would be a couple of the processes God used to create the Earth's life.

2-If Adam was created 5,000 years ago why are there 30,000 year old human or humanoid artifacts? The Biblical account of human history doesn't match archeology, so how can the two be circled into one truth?

I wonder if there were pre-adamites. Just because there weren't men on the Earth when Adam was created doesn't mean that there were never men on the Earth. Or different humanoids. Or maybe in Genesis it just meant that there were no godly men on the Earth. I don't know. We have such limited information.

3-A response to The LGBTQ movement. Why do some people have natural attractions that are not harmonious with traditional family roles? Is queer part of eternal identity? Is this a symptom of an advanced urban society? A result of chemicals, or was it here all along and the world finally accepted it?

It's a mental illness caused by hormone/chemical pollution/tampering, social conditioning, and abuse, I think. It's come and gone. Some ancient societies were incredibly homosexual and then they self-destructed/were destroyed. Ancient Greek males were 50-85% pederasts and now I'm guessing it would be a low single-digit percentage pederasts. So my guess is social and psychological conditioning can play a very big role in this sort of stuff.

I've heard that many secret societies have a prominent homosexual bent, but I don't have any personal knowledge of that.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Atrasado wrote: December 9th, 2022, 1:16 pm
FoxMammaWisdom wrote: December 9th, 2022, 10:40 am I wrote the leaders a letter when I was in president Monson's Ward before I left the church 10 years ago. My two main concerns were their treatment of the poor when they are gajillionaires and responsible for making sure there's no poor among them, and the fact that they have absolutely zero claim to any kind of actual spiritual experiences or meeting with the Lord - which means they took their thrones falsely as they are not supposed to be sitting in those seats unless they've met the Lord face to face and are acting according to his actual instructions. If they're not able to meet with the Lord face to face somebody else is supposed to be sitting in those seats who can not only claim but demonstrate that they are.

So they refused to answer my letter, and when I wrote another one explaining that they owe me an answer as a member of the church challenging them with criteria they themselves claim they should be fulfilling, they mocked me and said they have no answer.

So then I left the church and now 10 years later I have learned all kinds of new things.

So today I would ask them about the World reset and the mud flood temples 200 yrs ago, the fake genealogy, the trafficking through LDS adoption agency, the billion color flag the church is adopting and all the rules they threw out since I lost my recommend for stupid things they don't care about anymore, how Oaks helped Russell Nelson's daughter's pedophile ring disappear, I'd ask about all that railroad stuff too, and about how half the leaders (we know about so far) are members of skull and bones or other evil secret societies and how their names are on literally every entity running Utah and the surrounding states, why the leaders and their wives are walking around with the wrong gender markers like the elite gender inversion couples in Hollywood are, I'd ask about the alliance with the Rothschilds and their funding they've been taking since the beginning, their alliance with the New World order and Satan... prolly ask about some other things too.🤔

(All the edits were typos.)
(One more just for fun)
I hadn't heard about Oaks' involvement in the Dick and Brenda Miles scandal. What happened there?
Oaks was in tight with the UT Supreme Court and could make it go away for them.

NowWhat
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by NowWhat »

And, I have heard that, because the "stipends" that our "lay" church leaders receive are not to be considered "pay," they do not pay tithing or, probably, taxes on their stipends.
Last edited by NowWhat on December 9th, 2022, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

endlessQuestions
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by endlessQuestions »

Well, if nothing else, this thread illustrates pretty clearly why the Brethren can't simply "open up the floor to questions".

FWIW, I would have two questions:

1) Can you bear eyewitness testimony to the reality of the resurrected Messiah known as Jesus Christ?
2) Have you at any point in your life entered into an promise, oath, covenant, agreement, contract, obligation, or vow which you have not repented of that has created a condition of divided allegiance to our King, the Messiah known as Jesus Christ?

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thaabit
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by thaabit »

1. Who built the pyramids, and why?
2. Who killed JFK, and why?
3. Who perpetrated 911, and why?
4. Did you order the code red?

Rubicon
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Rubicon »

NowWhat wrote: December 9th, 2022, 1:39 pm And, I have heard that, because the "stipends" that our "lay" church leaders receive are not to be considered "pay," they do not pay tithing or, probably, taxes on their stipends.
Eyring's leaked paystub and information indicates that he, at least, pays tithing on his salary from the Church. On gross . . . (good for him).

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Durzan
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Durzan »

Spam them mass emails from multiple people, with no listed return address or persons with membership record numbers.

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The Red Pill
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by The Red Pill »

Here's a question...

How come you don't bother to mention...REMEMBERING THE BIRTH OF CHRIST...on your list of what Christmas should be about???
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thaabit
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by thaabit »

The Red Pill wrote: December 9th, 2022, 2:26 pm Here's a question...

How come you don't bother to mention...REMEMBERING THE BIRTH OF CHRIST...on your list of what Christmas should be about???
Because he wasn't born then. We celebrate his birth every April 6th with a special church celebration, obviously.

Ciams
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by Ciams »

I'd say thank you for all your efforts to be a force for good in the face of an infinite number of seemingly intractable problems.

Please don't despair and know that we are with you.

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The Red Pill
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by The Red Pill »

thaabit wrote: December 9th, 2022, 2:55 pm
The Red Pill wrote: December 9th, 2022, 2:26 pm Here's a question...

How come you don't bother to mention...REMEMBERING THE BIRTH OF CHRIST...on your list of what Christmas should be about???
Because he wasn't born then. We celebrate his birth every April 6th with a special church celebration, obviously.
Not so fast...

"In 1915, James Talmage published “Jesus the Christ” and proposed that Jesus was born on April 6th, 1 B.C. He was the first LDS author or scholar to propose this. So where did he get this come from? He states that D&C 20 is the source for this interpretation...

Neither Joseph Smith nor any other prophets or apostles until Talmage's time believed that this introduction to the revelation had anything to do with the birth of Christ....

So, it seems, all this April 6th business started with a misinterpretation by Talmage, which has been perpetuated without much examination. Those who did give it some study rejected his assumption. The apostles and prophets have not been united on this point, so it is not an accepted revelation...

Two conclusions emerge from this study. The first is this: in the five-year period examined (5 bc to 1 bc), there is no year in which April 6 could have been the birth date of Jesus. This conclusion may disappoint some Latter-day Saints who have been conditioned to think of April 6 as the Savior’s birthday...

The second conclusion perhaps goes without saying: the traditional date of Christmas, December 25, falls within the window of time in which it would appear that Jesus must have been born."


Yet another pitfall for unexamined church history.

Source:https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaint ... me_of_the/

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marc
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by marc »

Five, two, maybe even one year ago, I would have written a letter. Today?

Nah.

NowWhat
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Re: Letter to the leaders of the Church! What say you?????

Post by NowWhat »

I agree with most of the questions above. My top 10, and these may be redundant:

1. Why do you tithe the poor? I refer you again to Rebekah Griffin's video, "Grind upon the Faces of the Poor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrBM7FxPDa8 Even middle class people are struggling, with inflation, all over the world. Was it Joseph F or Joseph Fielding who said they would soon not have a need for us to tithe at all? Why is it on income, not on what is left after the needs of the family are met?

2. Why do we have to pay to enter the Temple? It's a little like the Catholics paying for sin absolution. It's beginning to feel like a Ponzi Scheme, or at least a trap.

3. Why did you not promote healthy alternatives to the clotshots? Ivermectin, Vit. D3 (sun and supplements), zinc, etc., we all know the drill. Why don't you know? (I know, it cuts into your bottom line.)

4. Why do you have the audacity to call this a lay church when something like 163 of the leadership receive something like $153 K annually, higher than 90% of Utahns? (See MamaBear's link for WidowsMite, above.) Where is the humility? The Savior didn't even own a house, so why do you have two or three, often in the millions? I saw in a thread, probably here, that the leadership are not required to tithe.

5. Why do you seem to be condescending to the members? Lots of the members are great people, truly striving, if misled. Oh, right, I forgot, WE are the racists and the homophobes! And here I thought I was a good person.

6. Why are you such bullies? I mean, you have to micromanage every little thing, usually without apparent reason. We can't use a physical item in a talk, even though many people learn visually, not auditorily. We can't ask someone to follow along in their scriptures during a talk because the flipping of the pages detracts from the spirit of the meeting, even though everyone uses their phone. We can't have coffee ice cream. Now, you've gone too far! We have to consult with medical doctors, not herbalists, i.e., doctors are the new gods--other than you guys, of course. It's not Tithing Settlement; it's Tithing Declaration. Mormons Bad, even though we have a main scripture with that name, and former prophets thought Mormons Good. Dudes, why?

7. Why is the constantly changing Church Handbook (keep up!) replacing the Scriptures?

8. Why do you give boring GC talks, usually written by others (not you, on your knees, praying for inspiration), and then make us regurgitate them in Sacrament meeting, RS & EQ? Where are the joy and the light and the inspiration?

9. Why don't we have free speech in the Church? If I quit going, my neighbors will want to know what's happening. I. Can't. Tell. Them. Or I'll get a call... Why this worship of the Brethren? And if we don't buy into it, especially since Covid, we are apostates. Because The Lord Will Never Let You Lead Us Astray.

10. What have you done with my church? Throw out the boomers, because they have memories of a different church, and they'll all be dead soon anyway. Follow the youth, the leaders of tomorrow, because they know the way.
Last edited by NowWhat on December 13th, 2022, 1:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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