Polygamous Prophet Arrested

[Shawn Henry]

He called concubines an abomination. His words not mine

You're smoking something brother.

If he were condemning concubines, it would read "their having concubines", but it reads specifically "their having many wives and concubines".

[BuriedTartaria]

Oh, and for an example, Nephi murdering Laban.

Study section 98 and ask yourself why the Lord singles out Nephi when talking about when you are justified and tell if Nephi didn't already have a standing commandment that he violated.

Here, I made a whole thread just for you. viewtopic.php?t=68798

I hope you feel special.

Interesting perspective.

[Shawn Henry]

Why would Jesus say that He would give David more and more wives if He wasn't a supporter of polygamy?

Because he gives all according to the desires of their heart, by his own words.

[Luke]

Why would Jesus say that He would give David more and more wives if He wasn't a supporter of polygamy?

Because he gives all according to the desires of their heart, by his own words.

No He doesn't--not in the way you're stating. He doesn't actively give a homosexual man a husband. He allows it to happen, but He doesn't actively make it happen.

Contrast that with Him actually giving David wives.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Oh, and for an example, Nephi murdering Laban.

Study section 98 and ask yourself why the Lord singles out Nephi when talking about when you are justified and tell if Nephi didn't already have a standing commandment that he violated.

Here, I made a whole thread just for you. viewtopic.php?t=68798

I hope you feel special.

All I know is that YOU are special, and that's what matters most.

[Shawn Henry]

All I know is that YOU are special, and that's what matters most.

I smiled and my heart warmed, but then I thought, "Oh wait, I hope he doesn't mean yellow bus special".

[francisco.colaco]

Read well the story of Martha and Mary.

Then flame me on. I am used to it.

[Shawn Henry]

Interesting perspective.

Not interesting enough to merit feedback though, apparently. Help a man out, show me where my analysis needs improvement.

[Bronco73idi]

He called concubines an abomination. His words not mine

You're smoking something brother.

If he were condemning concubines, it would read "their having concubines", but it reads specifically "their having many wives and concubines".

I’m smoking?? Maybe he is upset with the man who has many wives and concubines, almost like how the scripture is written…..

Maybe he isn’t upset with a man living with a woman by itself? Maybe he is upset with someone who gets an inch and takes a mile!!!! If we only had the BOM then I would agree with you but we have the lord himself who did not tell the house of Judah or his apostles that polygamy is an abomination!

That is black and white so now you need to read Jacob with the ideas of what the lord taught or didn’t taught so you can understand the law he had Jacob give!

[BuriedTartaria]

Interesting perspective.

Not interesting enough to merit feedback though, apparently. Help a man out, show me where my analysis needs improvement.

If your perspective is true, it means that the Book of Mormon has Nephi being tested by a false spirit and the reader is tested by the story as well. Both Nephi and the reader are tasked with recognizing a false messenger. That's interesting. I don't know if your belief on this is correct, but it's thoughtful and draws on D&C related scripture in a practical and sound way to support the suggestion being proposed (Nephi was being tested and he failed the test).

If your interpretation is correct it adds fuel to the fire to the idea that messengers can be bad spirits and tests for an individual. Which is scary to consider.

[Bronco73idi]

He called concubines an abomination. His words not mine

You're smoking something brother.

If he were condemning concubines, it would read "their having concubines", but it reads specifically "their having many wives and concubines".

You do realize that Jacob’s words do not call out Abraham for committing an abomination.

Did he have 1 wife and 2 concubines or 2 separate wives and 1 concubine.

His words called out David and his son Solomon

[moving2zion]

Just another whacko. There were false christs before and after our Savior came to earth and fulfilled his mission. There will be false prophets in our day as well, ie. David Koresh.

[farmerchick]

SOOO this thread started out with a real story about a guy who is a known flds polygamous and was taking children across state lines in a stock trailer with lawn chairs, a sofa and a porta potty ..I'm assuming it was a 5 gallon bucket...lol...yet, some here at ldsff continue to hash and rehash polygamy?

[Letfreedumbring]

SOOO this thread started out with a real story about a guy who is a known flds polygamous and was taking children across state lines in a stock trailer with lawn chairs, a sofa and a porta potty ..I'm assuming it was a 5 gallon bucket...lol...yet, some here at ldsff continue to hash and rehash polygamy?

I came here for more details on the porta potty and stayed for the polygamy.

[Shawn Henry]

You do realize that Jacob’s words do not call out Abraham for committing an abomination.

Did he have 1 wife and 2 concubines or 2 separate wives and 1 concubine.

His words called out David and his son Solomon

Whose words?!! Did you just type "Jacob's words"? Jacob's words are not in chapter 2. Chapter 2 is Jacob relaying the Savior's words. I thought we cleared that up already, didn't we?

That fact the only David and Soloman were called out does not necessarily work in your favor. They had the Brass Plates, which is a better and more accurate history. If the Nephites had read the Brass Plates and saw that Abraham was a polygamist, they would have used him as their justification, but they didn't. Why not use Father Abraham and instead of two people who fell from their stations? It is very likely that didn't use Abraham because the text didn't allow them to.

[Niemand]

SOOO this thread started out with a real story about a guy who is a known flds polygamous and was taking children across state lines in a stock trailer with lawn chairs, a sofa and a porta potty ..I'm assuming it was a 5 gallon bucket...lol...yet, some here at ldsff continue to hash and rehash polygamy?

The guy's sick. I don't think any of us were arguing that children being transported like cattle is acceptable.

[Bronco73idi]

You do realize that Jacob’s words do not call out Abraham for committing an abomination.

Did he have 1 wife and 2 concubines or 2 separate wives and 1 concubine.

His words called out David and his son Solomon

Whose words?!! Did you just type "Jacob's words"? Jacob's words are not in chapter 2. Chapter 2 is Jacob relaying the Savior's words. I thought we cleared that up already, didn't we?

That fact the only David and Soloman were called out does not necessarily work in your favor. They had the Brass Plates, which is a better and more accurate history. If the Nephites had read the Brass Plates and saw that Abraham was a polygamist, they would have used him as their justification, but they didn't. Why not use Father Abraham and instead of two people who fell from their stations? It is very likely that didn't use Abraham because the text didn't allow them to.

Jacob isn’t a coauthor? He didn’t write the words that the lord told him too? The lord said he would give David more wives under your understanding of scripture. Why is the lord a hypocrite to you?

[TheDuke]

Shawn: Don't worry, if you don't believe in celestial polygamy (vs this life) you will not have to partake. It is that simple and you don't need to worry about being commanded because you don't believe. You win. Of course I think it is a slippery slope to believe in celestial marriage at all if you want to start parsing god's words to Joseph, BY and others. So, I'd say don't worry about celestial marriage at all. It is after all a gift, not a punishment. Live on as you like.... but, let others live on as well. If god commands them, let them be. I doubt he will, really as he has said at this time it is wrong, but if he did, what would you care. Now I'm not saying a crackpot with children, or compelling or brainwashing or inbred, etc.. but otherwise, let it go, it is not your concern. You're not a believer and that is OK, god compels no one to believe anything at any time in any sphere. Progression is eternal, not everyone earns every reward at the same time. Joseph said that eventually all will return to god. Jesus said "few there be that find it". So, at any given time few will comprehend and and desire any and/or all of gods rewards, but in the end, perhaps things will change (if you believe in eternal progression and not the one-stop heaven or hell crap taught by most all Christians including 21st century LDS leaders).

[Shawn Henry]

Shawn: Don't worry, if you don't believe in celestial polygamy (vs this life) you will not have to partake. It is that simple and you don't need to worry about being commanded because you don't believe. You win. Of course I think it is a slippery slope to believe in celestial marriage at all if you want to start parsing god's words to Joseph, BY and others. So, I'd say don't worry about celestial marriage at all. It is after all a gift, not a punishment. Live on as you like.... but, let others live on as well. If god commands them, let them be. I doubt he will, really as he has said at this time it is wrong, but if he did, what would you care. Now I'm not saying a crackpot with children, or compelling or brainwashing or inbred, etc.. but otherwise, let it go, it is not your concern. You're not a believer and that is OK, god compels no one to believe anything at any time in any sphere. Progression is eternal, not everyone earns every reward at the same time. Joseph said that eventually all will return to god. Jesus said "few there be that find it". So, at any given time few will comprehend and and desire any and/or all of gods rewards, but in the end, perhaps things will change (if you believe in eternal progression and not the one-stop heaven or hell crap taught by most all Christians including 21st century LDS leaders).

Thanks Duke, I actually really appreciate your words and I definitely do need to be better about letting things go.

This one is admittedly hard though, because it is not just my innate desire to defend true doctrine, but there is also a strong element in defending our little ones when girls so young are involved.

[TheDuke]

Shawn again you're mixing things, polygamy and doctrine and little ones and young girls are different things. And you're not defending any doctrine but opinions as the doctrine is stated polygamy is only acceptable when commanded by god, he wouldn't ever command someone to marry a child.

[darknesstolight]

Shawn again you're mixing things, polygamy and doctrine and little ones and young girls are different things. And you're not defending any doctrine but opinions as the doctrine is stated polygamy is only acceptable when commanded by god, he wouldn't ever command someone to marry a child.

TheDuke you're mixing things again. Polygamy created by BY is an abomination and it is intimately related and connected with child rape and abuse and that is a demonstrable fact that you ignore and pretend doesn't exist. And you're not defending any doctrine but opinions as the doctrine is stated polygamy is an abomination and that only having one wife and no concubines is acceptable by god, he wouldn't ever command someone to marry multiple women and He never has.

...

[Thinker]

Joseph Smith & BY both did good and evil.

D&C 132:
“I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law” (verse 54). The five young women referred to in the revelation were sisters Sarah and Maria Lawrence (ages 17 and 19), sisters Emily and Eliza Partridge (ages 19 and 22), and Lucy Walker (age 17), all of whom Joseph Smith had secretly married months before this revelation was dictated, though Emma likely did not know this..

It is difficult to read this section of scripture and not determine it to be justification for Joseph’s own desires and intentions, projected onto his personal notion of God. For example, despite the command that the first wife’s permission must be sought, Joseph repeatedly did not do this. He had already taken numerous polygamous wives before ever speaking to Emma, a fact he concealed until his death. Verse 65 provides a convenient justification for him continuing to do this: if the first wife does not accept the rule of her husband, “…she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law [of Sarah]” and will be destroyed. The letter, in essence, threatened Emma’s eternal welfare if she did not accept Joseph’s taking of additional wives...

August 1843 – The Smith family and the five young wives move into the larger Mansion House across the street from the Homestead, built by Robert Foster under revelation from Joseph two years earlier. By September, the Mansion House was also used as a hotel...

The historical evidence indicates that Joseph Smith married at very least twenty-one women using his often secret ceremonies. He did not follow the rules of his own revelations, and it appears that he both bribed and manipulated Emma with ecclesiastical threats, as well as young women in his charge, to go along with his plans – at least temporarily… ”

https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-cla ... /polygamy/

“Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men…

these marriages had great impact upon the lives of the women involved. And not just the women but their husbands as well; especially with Henry Bailey Jacobs whose wife Zina was married to both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young; having a child with the latter. This is also true with Windsor Lyon, whose wife (Sylvia Sessions Lyon) Joseph Smith slept with and impregnated while Windsor and Sylvia were still legally and lawfully husband and wife.

Here’s what former wife of Brigham Young, Ann Eliza Young, had to say about the polyandry:

One woman said to me not very long since, while giving me some of her experiences in polygamy: 'The greatest trial I ever endured in my life was living with my husband and deceiving him, by receiving Joseph's attentions whenever he chose to come to me.'

Some of these women have since said they did not know who was the father of their children; this is not to be wondered at, for after Joseph's declaration annulling all Gentile marriages, the greatest promiscuity was practiced; and, indeed, all sense of morality seemed to have been lost by a portion at least of the church.
– Wife No. 19, 1876, pages 70-71

Another woman writes that Lucinda Pendleton Morgan Harris stated in 1842:

Why, I am his [Joseph Smith’s] mistress since four years. – Mormon Portrait, p.60

Presendia Huntington is quoted as saying: "…say afterwards in Utah, that she did not know whether Mr. Buell [her legal husband] or the Prophet was the father of her son.” – Fifteen Years Among the Mormons: Being the Narrative of Mrs. Mary Ettie V. Smith, p.35

Henry Bailey Jacobs came back from his mission in England when he received a letter from his wife Zina that she married Brigham Young and that she had his child. Brigham’s marriage of Zina and her having Brigham’s child alone disproves the absurd and unsupported apologetic argument that the polyandrous marriages were strictly “eternal marriages” that were not consummated. Either Brigham Young, as a prophet, was practicing polyandry as Joseph taught and practiced or he was not. If not, he is guilty of the heinous sin of adultery by marrying multiple other men’s wives and having a child with another man’s wife…”
https://cesletter.org/debunking-fairmor ... dry.html#2

Joseph Smith did good, but also bad. BY too. It’s best to not try to bend and twist reality to suit certain narratives. The founder of our church started off with good intent but power got to him. So, again, trust only in God. Sure learn truths he & others taught but don’t take it all as if “from the mouth of God.”

[Niemand]

Just another whacko. There were false christs before and after our Savior came to earth and fulfilled his mission. There will be false prophets in our day as well, ie. David Koresh.

I suggest you look into Koresh, he is NOT what he was cracked up to be. The Waco Siege was largely state-initiated and the government forces then covered up their behaviour e.g putting tanks on their lawn, exposing their penises and bottoms to the Waco residents and shouting foul mouthed abuse at them, firing in smoke grenades which set fire to the buildings etc.

People think Waco was another Jonestown. Not so.

One of the agents involved in the siege was later done for the wrongful killing of a woman and child at another incident

[Niemand]

Now take notice. Although legally most countries only allow monogamy, the reality is that especially in the US we practice social monogamy. That means we are not really living God's commandment only on the surface but so many in our society live polygamy, an abomination, promiscuity, affairs, adultery, all forms of polygamy.

That means that a person who is truly monogamous is a rare and a precious thing. Again polygamy is natural, the way of the flesh. A huge percentage of people even who live in monogamous societies and on the surface are monogamous are actually promiscuous, and polygamous.

Monogamy, true monogamous relationships, are peculiar, rare, and divine.

...

The western world wants us to shag everything but not to "put a ring on it", like that stupid Beyoncé song. You only get to marry one person, but you can give it away to anyone before, during and after.

[Letfreedumbring]

https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-cla ... /polygamy/

What's crazy is the church has now hidden this record in Family Search. I used to be able to see the entire record and all the wives sealed. It also hides the teenage wife and wives of Lorenzo Snow and I can't remember about Joseph F Smith.

Interesting times when the church preaches doing what is right and letting consequences follow but doesn't follow their own teaching.