LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 5:25 pm**

What is your opinion? Will the US still be a country when the City of Zion is built or will it have crumbled?

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 5:29 pm**

The scriptures and prophets are clear. The righteous will be gathered, then the Lord will sweep the wicked from off the land.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 5:32 pm**

in my far out opinion, war/famine/plague then a small amount get taken "into the clouds" or go into the earth (hollow).
then the earth gets burnt up.
then it grows back
then people come back to the surface
then zion is built.

signing off, Major Tom

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 5:37 pm**

The scriptures also tell us that when we go back to build the city, we will build up the waste places of Zion.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:18
18 They that remain, and are pure in heart, shall return, and come to their inheritances, they and their children, with songs of everlasting joy, to build up the waste places of Zion—

Doctrine and Covenants 103:11
11 But verily I say unto you, I have decreed that your brethren which have been scattered shall return to the lands of their inheritances, and shall build up the waste places of Zion.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 5:47 pm**

If the US is still a country, will they fight against Zion?

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 5:58 pm**

How can it be? LOL

How can there be the existing laws at the same time, the United Order? Those two things are like oil and water.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 6:08 pm**

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 5:58 pm How can it be? LOL

How can there be the existing laws at the same time, the United Order? Those two things are like oil and water.

Before Christ visited the Nephites, their government had collapsed and the peoples had divided into tribes. I can see the same or similar thing happen in the US. We're already divided up by states and I can see how blue states are crumbling at an accelerated pace. Those who already have God's law written in their hearts will continue to abide by laws of the land (except probably immoral/unconstitutional laws). Some of those who know how to live lawfully will be around to build New Jerusalem. The will be the only people not at war with one another as prophesied in the scriptures.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 7:31 pm**

Joseph Smith said the government would be broken up so that there won't be so much as a potsherd left.
He also said there would be civil war, beginning at Chicago.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 7:35 pm**

The question is, will the US still be a country…. To destroy the US you would have to completely destroy the Constitution.

I think it will hang by a thread, but it will still be hanging!

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 7:42 pm**

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:35 pm The question is, will the US still be a country…. To destroy the US you would have to completely destroy the Constitution.

I think it will hang by a thread, but it will still be hanging!

"But many of the prophecies referring to America's preservation are conditional. That is, if we do our duty we can be preserved, and if not, then we shall be destroyed. This means that a good deal of the responsibility lies with the Priesthood of this Church as to what happens to America and as to how much tragedy can be avoided if we do act now. And now as the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively it is simply this: "Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution. This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are "compelled in all things.' Maybe the Lord will never Set up a specific Church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set up one at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet, for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe. The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the side-lines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be "commanded in all things,' used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle "in a good cause' and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom' 's cause. 2 Years ago Elder Joseph F Merrill of the Council of the Twelve encouraged the members of the Church to join right-to-work leagues and President Heber J. Grant concurred. For our day President David O. McKay has called communism the greatest threat to the Church, and it is certainly the gteatest Mortal threat this country has ever faced. What are you doing to fight it? Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, 3 the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and world-wide mission. The war in heaven is raging on earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?
"Verily I say, men should their be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness, For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves." (D&C 58:27-28

Ezra Taft Benson
An Enemy Hath Done This pg 278-279

"It is said that Brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, send rescue it, and save it. This may be so; but I do not recollect that he said exactly so. I believe he said something like this- that the time would come when the Constitution and the Country would be in danger of an overthrow ; and said he, if the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language as nearly as I can recollect it.
The question is whether it will be saved at all, or not. I do not know that it matters to us whether it is or not; the Lord will provide for and take care of his people, if we do every duty."
-Orson Hyde, HC 7:382

That was always conditional.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 8:03 pm**

Generic User wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:42 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:35 pm The question is, will the US still be a country…. To destroy the US you would have to completely destroy the Constitution.

I think it will hang by a thread, but it will still be hanging!
"But many of the prophecies referring to America's preservation are conditional. That is, if we do our duty we can be preserved, and if not, then we shall be destroyed. This means that a good deal of the responsibility lies with the Priesthood of this Church as to what happens to America and as to how much tragedy can be avoided if we do act now. And now as the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively it is simply this: "Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution. This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are "compelled in all things.' Maybe the Lord will never Set up a specific Church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set up one at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet, for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe. The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the side-lines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be "commanded in all things,' used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle "in a good cause' and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom' 's cause. 2 Years ago Elder Joseph F Merrill of the Council of the Twelve encouraged the members of the Church to join right-to-work leagues and President Heber J. Grant concurred. For our day President David O. McKay has called communism the greatest threat to the Church, and it is certainly the gteatest Mortal threat this country has ever faced. What are you doing to fight it? Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, 3 the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and world-wide mission. The war in heaven is raging on earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?
"Verily I say, men should their be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness, For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves." (D&C 58:27-28

Ezra Taft Benson
An Enemy Hath Done This pg 278-279

"It is said that Brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, send rescue it, and save it. This may be so; but I do not recollect that he said exactly so. I believe he said something like this- that the time would come when the Constitution and the Country would be in danger of an overthrow ; and said he, if the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language as nearly as I can recollect it.
The question is whether it will be saved at all, or not. I do not know that it matters to us whether it is or not; the Lord will provide for and take care of his people, if we do every duty."
-Orson Hyde, HC 7:382

That was always conditional.

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

There is a few feathers left to pluck before the one mighty and strong unite the people like David did.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 8:16 pm**

I think it's highly likely the US simply balkanizes.

You may have a few states band together under the Constitution, others may revert back to the original, others may simply omit anything applicable at a federal level or perhaps try an adapt it for a state level (possibly treating counties as states, etc) and then you'll have communist hell-hole states simply adopting the WEF's marching orders or something resembling Seattle's CHOP or CHAZ manifesto as their constitution... or they may just still be all that remains of what was formerly known as the US, still leaning on the bastardized document of government overreach they call a constitution by that point.

Everyone else will be the traitors and rebels trying to break up the perfect union, but there might not be much they can do about it because their money won't be able to afford a military to go forcefully bring them back into the empire. (Though, I hadn't considered outside funding with a new currency to accomplish as much... hmm.)

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 9:39 pm**

I personally don't think so

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 10:17 pm**

D&C 87:6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

All means all I believe.

Posted: **November 28th, 2022, 10:31 pm**

Well, if you accept Isaiah, and the USA is the Egypt of modern times (per Gileadi), then yes, in some form or fashion the US will survive the arrival of Jesus and the millennium. JS clearly says the US flag will wave in the millennium. Now if you think Zion will be established late in the millennium, then I would say we haven't been told. All we know of the millennium is how is starts and how it ends.

BTW if you follow Isaiah (and some help from Gileadi), Revelations, Daniel, etc..., also surviving would be the Lion (GB), the Bear (Russia) and of course Israel. Not so good for Assyria (China?) or Dragon (China), or Babylon (Europe), nor the rest of the eastern hemisphere which is consumed by Assyria and the anti-Christ.

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 5:22 am**

Not in any meaningful way. There may be some jind of rump state that refers to itself as the USA.

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 5:23 am**

onefour1 wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 5:37 pm The scriptures also tell us that when we go back to build the city, we will build up the waste places of Zion.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:18
18 They that remain, and are pure in heart, shall return, and come to their inheritances, they and their children, with songs of everlasting joy, to build up the waste places of Zion—

Doctrine and Covenants 103:11
11 But verily I say unto you, I have decreed that your brethren which have been scattered shall return to the lands of their inheritances, and shall build up the waste places of Zion.

This is not to include the Babylonian cities, any of them. They will be left desolate, for the rest of time never to be inhabited again.
Isaiah 64:10-11

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 7:23 am**

Balkanized - probably. But will the flag still fly in those freedom-loving and constitution-supporting states? I think so. It may not be the UNITED states of America, but I think it will still be America. And it will still be governed by the Constitution.

D&C 109:54: Have mercy, O Lord, upon all the nations of the earth; have mercy upon the rulers of our land; may those principles, which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely, the Constitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever.

As it says:

Isaiah 2:3 ...out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

So there will be two heads of government - Zion (centered in Missouri) - where the law will go forth, and Jerusalem, where the word of the Lord will come forth.

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 7:35 am**

Generic User wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:42 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:35 pm The question is, will the US still be a country…. To destroy the US you would have to completely destroy the Constitution.

I think it will hang by a thread, but it will still be hanging!
"But many of the prophecies referring to America's preservation are conditional. That is, if we do our duty we can be preserved, and if not, then we shall be destroyed. This means that a good deal of the responsibility lies with the Priesthood of this Church as to what happens to America and as to how much tragedy can be avoided if we do act now. And now as the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively it is simply this: "Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution. This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are "compelled in all things.' Maybe the Lord will never Set up a specific Church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set up one at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet, for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe. The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the side-lines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be "commanded in all things,' used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle "in a good cause' and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom' 's cause. 2 Years ago Elder Joseph F Merrill of the Council of the Twelve encouraged the members of the Church to join right-to-work leagues and President Heber J. Grant concurred. For our day President David O. McKay has called communism the greatest threat to the Church, and it is certainly the gteatest Mortal threat this country has ever faced. What are you doing to fight it? Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, 3 the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and world-wide mission. The war in heaven is raging on earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?
"Verily I say, men should their be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness, For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves." (D&C 58:27-28

Ezra Taft Benson
An Enemy Hath Done This pg 278-279

"It is said that Brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, send rescue it, and save it. This may be so; but I do not recollect that he said exactly so. I believe he said something like this- that the time would come when the Constitution and the Country would be in danger of an overthrow ; and said he, if the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language as nearly as I can recollect it.
The question is whether it will be saved at all, or not. I do not know that it matters to us whether it is or not; the Lord will provide for and take care of his people, if we do every duty."
-Orson Hyde, HC 7:382

That was always conditional.

yes. If we do every duty. One of our duties, according to ETB, is to be wise and select:

only those who understand and will adhere to Constitutional principles.

~ https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... d?lang=eng

in the case of Uchtdorf supporting Biden, and Utah supporting Romney, we're not doing our duty - beginning with the Saints themselves. Which is worse, though - supporting Republicans who act like they support the constitution (but really don't), or Dems, who don't support the constitution (and say as much)? *

This is why, IMO, the plagues start "upon my own house", says the Lord. (D&C 112:24-26)

*trick question! it's neither! As above - the word "only" means don't support anyone who doesn't. As in: If there is no candidate on the ticket who supports the constitution, then voting for the lesser of two evils is still not the right thing to do. You should write in an honorable name, or not vote at all, IMO.

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 7:55 am**

If the US does exist, it would be a huge surprise when someone stakes a claim right in the middle of the country and says back off, this is Zion and you can't touch this.

Queue music

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 8:33 am**

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:35 pm The question is, will the US still be a country…. To destroy the US you would have to completely destroy the Constitution.

I think it will hang by a thread, but it will still be hanging!

What part of the constitution exists today?

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 9:32 am**

Vision wrote: ↑November 29th, 2022, 8:33 am
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:35 pm The question is, will the US still be a country…. To destroy the US you would have to completely destroy the Constitution.

I think it will hang by a thread, but it will still be hanging!
What part of the constitution exists today?

The 2nd amendment has fallen in Florida, Wyoming and Montana? I’m sure a few more states still value the constitution.

Your hanging by a “thread” and the lord’s “thread” are probably different definitions. I would love everything to happen the way I want them too,

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 10:16 am**

Zion is Jerusalem, were the Lamb of God was sacrificed .............The blood was shed there.

It was the only place apon earth that God appointed for sacrifice, made holy by the blood of the lamb.........

Salvation sprang forth from Zion and was declared thru out the earth......

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 10:42 am**

TheChristian wrote: ↑November 29th, 2022, 10:16 am Zion is Jerusalem, were the Lamb of God was sacrificed .............The blood was shed there.

It was the only place apon earth that God appointed for sacrifice, made holy by the blood of the lamb.........

Salvation sprang forth from Zion and was declared thru out the earth......

It's not. They are two different places.

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Posted: **November 29th, 2022, 11:20 am**

logonbump wrote: ↑November 29th, 2022, 5:23 am This is not to include the Babylonian cities, any of them. They will be left desolate, for the rest of time never to be inhabited again.
Isaiah 64:10-11

Of course this makes no literal sense in any possible way. Given the earth will continue to provide a home (celestially) it is highly unlikely several areas or cities will remain permanently desolate, even into the millennium. Either a figurative statement or written down incorrectly. More likely the Babylonian cities will be no more but the land/area/region will rise in glory.

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