Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by BeNotDeceived »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:48 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: November 27th, 2022, 7:16 pm
FoundMyEden wrote: November 27th, 2022, 7:01 pm Maybe it’s more prophetic than anything?
Moroni as an angel was a fabrication and temple ceremonies came about after the church was &#%!@? after being condemned.
If that's your position, why are you here?
Because the BOM is true despite all the tomfoolery that went into its publication.

57 may be said to be emblematic of the Davidic Servant and a 5.7 magnitude was the first of four (5 if you include an 8.2 that was a near miss) relevant earthquakes. The 5.7 landed Moroni’s instrument at an amazing time as per https://march8miracle.org.

Other corrections and confirmation of the opening of the seventh seal may be found herein by those with a willingness to believe. Check subforum 57 for the latest greatest info. :lol:

Dave62
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Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by Dave62 »

And you expect me to be inclusive of these people?

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nightlight
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Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by nightlight »

Pnwlivesmatter wrote: November 27th, 2022, 6:53 pm https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ed_a_skit/

Stanford mocks the mormon religion at halftime of a football game. NO ONE CARES. In fact, people support it.

If they mocked a Jewish wedding (wearing Yamukas) it would be a huge national story and crisis. Jewish people (and the media outlets they own) would NOT PUT UP WITH IT. ADL would be making a huge deal about this.

If they mocked muslims and wore hijabs it would be all over the news, and muslims would frankly be violent in their response. In fact, they would never mock muslims knowing what the response could be.

People wouldn't dare make a play called "The Quaran" on broadway. Or a show mocking the Talmud and Jews.

Why do members continually let these things happen to us. I don't want to be nice about this anymore. Mormons let themselves get made fun of all the time and we DO NOTHING.
Fight back against insults?

Why give power to clowns?

Take those feelings and discard them... they're juvenile

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nightlight
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Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by nightlight »

BeNotDeceived wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:38 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:48 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: November 27th, 2022, 7:16 pm
FoundMyEden wrote: November 27th, 2022, 7:01 pm Maybe it’s more prophetic than anything?
Moroni as an angel was a fabrication and temple ceremonies came about after the church was &#%!@? after being condemned.
If that's your position, why are you here?
Because the BOM is true despite all the tomfoolery that went into its publication.

57 may be said to be emblematic of the Davidic Servant and a 5.7 magnitude was the first of four (5 if you include an 8.2 that was a near miss) relevant earthquakes. The 5.7 landed Moroni’s instrument at an amazing time as per https://march8miracle.org.

Other corrections and confirmation of the opening of the seventh seal may be found herein by those with a willingness to believe. Check subforum 57 for the latest greatest info. :lol:
Interesting

So do you think a Jewish dude named "Lehi" actually came to this continent with his family etc ?

Or do you think the BoMs principles are true but the story is fiction? Like if Lord of the Rings and the New Testament had a baby 🍼

Atrasado
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Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:50 am
Being There wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:45 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:29 am
Luke wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:56 pm

I totally disagree with his perspective, but he has just as much right as you do to be here and share his opinions.
I'm not questioning his right to be here. I'm questioning his motivations and rewards. I have every right to go to an Islam website, for instance, and defecate all over their beliefs too, but I don't do it because I'm not a jerk and there's zero reward for me in doing so. I'm just curious why people who are against the church feel compelled to make accounts and comment on every forum they can find to say pointless and silly things like this.
say pointless and silly things.. lol.
you mean like you - a TBM - who like their leaders - say pointless and silly things
to try to justify anything and everything their corrupt church leaders say and do.
Well, this is a church-related website talking about church-related things, so shouldn't the topics be, you know, about the church?

If the point of the site is to rail against the church and its leaders, to mock and insult its members, and to generally be a collective of clowns and jerks, then let me know and I'll jump out. I have zero interest in entertaining the bitter and divisive ignorance of others.
There's a wide spectrum of people on this site and none of us are right about everything and none of us completely agree with anyone else on this site. I share Rob Smith's belief, though, that those who love the Savior will eventually see their differences melt away.

I think that most, if not all, of us love the Church that Christ founded through Joseph Smith. We recognize that there are some significant issues with the Church and it's leaders and we try to take the Holy Spirit as our guide. We study the scriptures and see prophecies about our concerns so we know that God knew what would happen and had a plan.

Most of us know that the Lord was serious when He said that not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will be saved but only those who repent and do our Heavenly Father's will will be.

Most of us don't think we are better than anyone else and we are aware of most of our sins. So we aren't crying other's iniquity and that they are out of the way while proclaiming our innocence. I'm not innocent.

Let me give you one small example of a problem I see. I live in a middle class neighborhood in Rexburg. We are so Church-centric that we have one family in the ward who aren't members and they are active in the Church and serve in callings. But when we had a discussion on a combined fifth Sunday on ways to prepare to return to the temple after the Covid-19 shutdowns the only comments that were offered were jokes. I sat for 10 or 15 minutes while adult after adult, many who work for the Church, tried to be funny. Then I raised my hand and suggested that perhaps we could best prepare to return to the temple by repenting of our sins. You could tell that people thought I was so odd for saying that.

It's weird because when I was a young man in the eighties and nineties we, unfortunately, had lots of sin but it seemed that we at least had the good sense to be ashamed of our sins and it seemed that most members wanted to do better. We mostly didn't act like sin wasn't sin. I don't see that as much anymore. People will believe and do any awful thing they want without thinking twice about it and will tell themselves that they are a chosen generation.

The leaders didn't lead us astray. We get the leaders we deserve. We went astray and then God gave us what we wanted anyways--watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber and tell us smooth words and have entire law firms and PR reps on permenant retainer. They didn't finish the watchtower but invested the Lord's money with the exchangers instead. Of such the Lord said their works would be destroyed. (See D&C 101:51) But don't take my word for it, read the scriptures. Because Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul, and Joseph Smith said all of this much more harshly than any of us ever could.
Last edited by Atrasado on November 28th, 2022, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thinker
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Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by Thinker »

Pnwlivesmatter wrote: November 27th, 2022, 7:06 pm
marc wrote: November 27th, 2022, 6:57 pm What does "fighting back" look like to you?
we have very poor media responses to these things. we just ignore or give an old "aw shucks, we are so nice, anyways, have a free BoM"

we need a more cunning and tactical media strategy.

im not arguing for violence or anything. but we literally do NOTHING.
You’re right in implying that godly principles are being attacked and many lds have been too conditioned to want to appear nice, so they are quiet when they shouldn’t be. Plenty of sins of omission. Some don’t know what to say to peoples who use appeal to emotion & other disingenuous tactics.

Frankly, I see temples as partly ungodly, somewhat even evil - using temples to make money (charging for worthiness), Freemason evil etc. Yes, it’s disrespectful for them to mock it & you’re right about double standards of other groups. Yet, it’s not as troubling as something else that threatens society as a whole - homosexual false advertisement.

Promoting homosexual is deceptively evil because statistically - especially for men - it leads to sickness & premature death - NOT “happy rainbows.” Promoting it also harms children both by often luring parents away from prioritizing their children and by pedophilia.

If everyone educated themselves about the truth (FACTS) of homosexual harms, and then spoke up whenever they saw false advertisement for it - then that might be an effective way of responding to things like this.

innocentoldguy
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Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by innocentoldguy »

Atrasado wrote: November 28th, 2022, 10:26 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:50 am
Being There wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:45 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:29 am

I'm not questioning his right to be here. I'm questioning his motivations and rewards. I have every right to go to an Islam website, for instance, and defecate all over their beliefs too, but I don't do it because I'm not a jerk and there's zero reward for me in doing so. I'm just curious why people who are against the church feel compelled to make accounts and comment on every forum they can find to say pointless and silly things like this.
say pointless and silly things.. lol.
you mean like you - a TBM - who like their leaders - say pointless and silly things
to try to justify anything and everything their corrupt church leaders say and do.
Well, this is a church-related website talking about church-related things, so shouldn't the topics be, you know, about the church?

If the point of the site is to rail against the church and its leaders, to mock and insult its members, and to generally be a collective of clowns and jerks, then let me know and I'll jump out. I have zero interest in entertaining the bitter and divisive ignorance of others.
There's a wide spectrum of people on this site and none of us are right about everything and none of us completely agree with anyone else on this site. I share Rob Smith's belief, though, that those who love the Savior will eventually see their difference melt away.

I think that most, if not all, of us love the Church that Christ founded through Joseph Smith. We recognize that there are some significant issues with the Church and it's leaders and we try to take the Holy Spirit as our guide. We study the scriptures and see prophecies about our concerns so we know that God knew what would happen and had a plan.

Most of us know that the Lord was serious when He said that not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will be saved but only those who repent and do our Heavenly Father's will will be.

Most of us don't think we are better than anyone else and we are aware of most of our sins. So we aren't crying other's iniquity and that they are out of the way while proclaiming our innocence. I'm not innocent.

Let me give you one small example of a problem I see. I live in a middle class neighborhood in Rexburg. We are so Church-centric that we have one family in the ward who aren't members and they are active in the Church and serve in callings. But when we had a discussion on a combined fifth Sunday on ways to prepare to return to the temple after the Covid-19 shutdowns the only comments that were offered were jokes. I sat for 10 or 15 minutes while adult after adult, many who work for the Church, tried to be funny. Then I raised my hand and suggested that perhaps we could best prepare to return to the temple by repenting of our sins. You could tell that people thought I was so odd for saying that.

It's weird because when I was a young man in the eighties and nineties we, unfortunately, had lots of sin but it seemed that we at least had the good sense to be ashamed of our sins and it seemed that most members wanted to do better. We mostly didn't act like sin wasn't sin. I don't see that as much anymore. People will believe and do any awful thing they want without thinking twice about it and will tell themselves that they are a chosen generation.

The leaders didn't lead us astray. We get the leaders we deserve. We went astray and then God gave us what we wanted anyways--watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber and tell us smooth words and have entire law firms and PR reps on permenant retainer. They didn't finish the watchtower but invested the Lord's money with the exchangers instead. Of such the Lord said their works would be destroyed. (See D&C 101:51) But don't take my word for it, read the scriptures. Because Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul, and Joseph Smith said all of this much more harshly than any of us ever could.
Thanks for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate knowing where you're coming from.

I agree that there are issues within the leadership/membership of the church; however, this is to be expected since none of us are perfect. I believe this is why Christ spent so much time teaching us to love each other and not to judge each other.

About 16 years ago now, I saw a series of flaws in both my bishop and stake president (cronyism, abuse of church funds, teaching false doctrine, etc.). I addressed the issues directly with them on multiple occasions and also spent a lot of time criticizing them to anyone who would listen (similar to many of the comments on this forum). After four years, I had enough and ended up getting my name removed from the records of the church and spending the next four or five years exploring every vice the church speaks out against (as a musician, that ended up being sex, drugs, alcohol, and rock and roll).

My life became an absolute disaster! It took a long time and a lot of work, but I finally got my life turned around and rejoined the church. I still believe I was right regarding my former bishop and stake president, but the cost of being right, for me, was far too great and painful. So, when I see people here railing against the prophet and other church leaders for perhaps both legitimate and illegitimate reasons, I want to offer a voice of warning. That path leads to nowhere but personal misery. If certain members of this group aren't there yet, trust me, they don't want to go there. If they are, they're in the depths of bitterness and may not realize it yet. Either way, criticizing and condemning church leaders will never lead anybody to Christ. Contention is of the devil and engaging in it is doing nothing but serving his purposes. The outcome will always be destructive to those who engage in it and their innocent loved ones. Just don't do it.


Those who feel this justifies their criticisms need to understand that Christ was directly speaking to them as well. It isn't their place to judge and condemn. If they're doing this, then it is them who needs to repent and to forgive.

Christ spoke out against being judgmental, rejecting prophets, condemning others, contending with others, being uncharitable, etc. If we're engaged in such behavior then we have indeed gone astray.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber." I've been going through GC talks recently and it seems to me the warnings are non-stop and the suggestions for change are aplenty. These warnings are even more direct in GA-led training meetings and stake conferences. I used to feel the way you apparently do about it, but I discovered it was my back-biting that was preventing me from seeing things more clearly.


I realize we're all on different paths and at different levels in our understanding, beliefs, testimony, etc. May I suggest that honest and humble statements/comments like, "I'm struggling with this topic," or "I don't understand this point of doctrine, can anyone help?" are more likely to lead individuals to Christ than, "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." It's not possible to hear the spirit and correctly interpret his promptings while tearing down church leadership and engaging in all the negative behaviors that Christ condemned. I know this from personal experience. I'd like to help others learn from my experiences rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
Last edited by innocentoldguy on November 28th, 2022, 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Momma J
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Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by Momma J »

Forgive them

spiritMan
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Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by spiritMan »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am
Atrasado wrote: November 28th, 2022, 10:26 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:50 am
Being There wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:45 am

say pointless and silly things.. lol.
you mean like you - a TBM - who like their leaders - say pointless and silly things
to try to justify anything and everything their corrupt church leaders say and do.
Well, this is a church-related website talking about church-related things, so shouldn't the topics be, you know, about the church?

If the point of the site is to rail against the church and its leaders, to mock and insult its members, and to generally be a collective of clowns and jerks, then let me know and I'll jump out. I have zero interest in entertaining the bitter and divisive ignorance of others.
There's a wide spectrum of people on this site and none of us are right about everything and none of us completely agree with anyone else on this site. I share Rob Smith's belief, though, that those who love the Savior will eventually see their difference melt away.

I think that most, if not all, of us love the Church that Christ founded through Joseph Smith. We recognize that there are some significant issues with the Church and it's leaders and we try to take the Holy Spirit as our guide. We study the scriptures and see prophecies about our concerns so we know that God knew what would happen and had a plan.

Most of us know that the Lord was serious when He said that not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will be saved but only those who repent and do our Heavenly Father's will will be.

Most of us don't think we are better than anyone else and we are aware of most of our sins. So we aren't crying other's iniquity and that they are out of the way while proclaiming our innocence. I'm not innocent.

Let me give you one small example of a problem I see. I live in a middle class neighborhood in Rexburg. We are so Church-centric that we have one family in the ward who aren't members and they are active in the Church and serve in callings. But when we had a discussion on a combined fifth Sunday on ways to prepare to return to the temple after the Covid-19 shutdowns the only comments that were offered were jokes. I sat for 10 or 15 minutes while adult after adult, many who work for the Church, tried to be funny. Then I raised my hand and suggested that perhaps we could best prepare to return to the temple by repenting of our sins. You could tell that people thought I was so odd for saying that.

It's weird because when I was a young man in the eighties and nineties we, unfortunately, had lots of sin but it seemed that we at least had the good sense to be ashamed of our sins and it seemed that most members wanted to do better. We mostly didn't act like sin wasn't sin. I don't see that as much anymore. People will believe and do any awful thing they want without thinking twice about it and will tell themselves that they are a chosen generation.

The leaders didn't lead us astray. We get the leaders we deserve. We went astray and then God gave us what we wanted anyways--watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber and tell us smooth words and have entire law firms and PR reps on permenant retainer. They didn't finish the watchtower but invested the Lord's money with the exchangers instead. Of such the Lord said their works would be destroyed. (See D&C 101:51) But don't take my word for it, read the scriptures. Because Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul, and Joseph Smith said all of this much more harshly than any of us ever could.
Thanks for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate knowing where you're coming from.

I agree that there are issues within the leadership/membership of the church; however, this is to be expected since none of us are perfect. I believe this is why Christ spent so much time teaching us to love each other and not to judge each other.

About 16 years ago now, I saw a series of flaws in both my bishop and stake president (cronyism, abuse of church funds, teaching false doctrine, etc.). I addressed the issues directly with them on multiple occasions and also spent a lot of time criticizing them to anyone who would listen (similar to many of the comments on this forum). After four years, I had enough and ended up getting my name removed from the records of the church and spending the next four or five years exploring every vice the church speaks out against (as a musician, that ended up being sex, drugs, alcohol, and rock and roll).

My life became an absolute disaster! It took a long time and a lot of work, but I finally got my life turned around and rejoined the church. I still believe I was right regarding my former bishop and stake president, but the cost of being right, for me, was far too great and painful. So, when I see people here railing against the prophet and other church leaders for perhaps both legitimate and illegitimate reasons, I want to offer a voice of warning. That path leads to nowhere but personal misery. If certain members of this group aren't there yet, trust me, they don't want to go there. If they are, the're in the depths of bitterness and may not realize it yet. Either way, criticizing and condemning church leaders will never lead anybody to Christ. Contention is of the devil and engaging in it is doing nothing but serving his purposes. The outcome will always be destructive to those who engage in it and their innocent loved ones. Just don't do it.


Those who feel this justifies their criticisms need to understand that Christ was directly speaking to them as well. It isn't their place to judge and condemn. If they're doing this, then it is them who needs to repent and to forgive.

Christ spoke out against being judgmental, rejecting prophets, condemning others, contending with others, being uncharitable, etc. If we're engaged in such behavior then we have indeed gone astray.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber." I've been going through GC talks recently and it seems to me the warnings are non-stop and the suggestions for change are aplenty. These warnings are even more direct in GA-led training meetings and stake conferences. I used to feel the way you apparently do about it, but I discovered it was my back-biting that was preventing me from seeing things more clearly.


I realize we're all on different paths and at different levels in our understanding, beliefs, testimony, etc. May I suggest that honest and humble statements/comments like, "I'm struggling with this topic," or "I don't understand this point of doctrine, can anyone help?" are more likely to lead individuals to Christ than, "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." It's not possible to hear the spirit and correctly interpret his promptings while tearing down church leadership and engaging in all the negative behaviors that Christ condemned. I know this from personal experience. I'd like to help others learn from my experiences rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
It wasn't the fact that you left that was the problem, it was the bitterness in your heart.

There are plenty of people who leave and live morally, spiritually, religious fulfilled lives where they worship God.

It's Church and culture brainwashing that says anyone and everyone who decides to leave has a bitter life. It is a manipulative technique that forces people to stay for fear rather than trusting God.

spiritMan
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Posts: 2276

Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by spiritMan »

Momma J wrote: November 28th, 2022, 1:15 pm Forgive them
Nothing to forgive Mormons want queer marriage in the Church

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Momma J
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Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by Momma J »

spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:08 pm
Momma J wrote: November 28th, 2022, 1:15 pm Forgive them
Nothing to forgive Mormons want queer marriage in the Church
Not all Mormons

innocentoldguy
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Posts: 265

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by innocentoldguy »

spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:07 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am
Atrasado wrote: November 28th, 2022, 10:26 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:50 am

Well, this is a church-related website talking about church-related things, so shouldn't the topics be, you know, about the church?

If the point of the site is to rail against the church and its leaders, to mock and insult its members, and to generally be a collective of clowns and jerks, then let me know and I'll jump out. I have zero interest in entertaining the bitter and divisive ignorance of others.
There's a wide spectrum of people on this site and none of us are right about everything and none of us completely agree with anyone else on this site. I share Rob Smith's belief, though, that those who love the Savior will eventually see their difference melt away.

I think that most, if not all, of us love the Church that Christ founded through Joseph Smith. We recognize that there are some significant issues with the Church and it's leaders and we try to take the Holy Spirit as our guide. We study the scriptures and see prophecies about our concerns so we know that God knew what would happen and had a plan.

Most of us know that the Lord was serious when He said that not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will be saved but only those who repent and do our Heavenly Father's will will be.

Most of us don't think we are better than anyone else and we are aware of most of our sins. So we aren't crying other's iniquity and that they are out of the way while proclaiming our innocence. I'm not innocent.

Let me give you one small example of a problem I see. I live in a middle class neighborhood in Rexburg. We are so Church-centric that we have one family in the ward who aren't members and they are active in the Church and serve in callings. But when we had a discussion on a combined fifth Sunday on ways to prepare to return to the temple after the Covid-19 shutdowns the only comments that were offered were jokes. I sat for 10 or 15 minutes while adult after adult, many who work for the Church, tried to be funny. Then I raised my hand and suggested that perhaps we could best prepare to return to the temple by repenting of our sins. You could tell that people thought I was so odd for saying that.

It's weird because when I was a young man in the eighties and nineties we, unfortunately, had lots of sin but it seemed that we at least had the good sense to be ashamed of our sins and it seemed that most members wanted to do better. We mostly didn't act like sin wasn't sin. I don't see that as much anymore. People will believe and do any awful thing they want without thinking twice about it and will tell themselves that they are a chosen generation.

The leaders didn't lead us astray. We get the leaders we deserve. We went astray and then God gave us what we wanted anyways--watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber and tell us smooth words and have entire law firms and PR reps on permenant retainer. They didn't finish the watchtower but invested the Lord's money with the exchangers instead. Of such the Lord said their works would be destroyed. (See D&C 101:51) But don't take my word for it, read the scriptures. Because Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul, and Joseph Smith said all of this much more harshly than any of us ever could.
Thanks for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate knowing where you're coming from.

I agree that there are issues within the leadership/membership of the church; however, this is to be expected since none of us are perfect. I believe this is why Christ spent so much time teaching us to love each other and not to judge each other.

About 16 years ago now, I saw a series of flaws in both my bishop and stake president (cronyism, abuse of church funds, teaching false doctrine, etc.). I addressed the issues directly with them on multiple occasions and also spent a lot of time criticizing them to anyone who would listen (similar to many of the comments on this forum). After four years, I had enough and ended up getting my name removed from the records of the church and spending the next four or five years exploring every vice the church speaks out against (as a musician, that ended up being sex, drugs, alcohol, and rock and roll).

My life became an absolute disaster! It took a long time and a lot of work, but I finally got my life turned around and rejoined the church. I still believe I was right regarding my former bishop and stake president, but the cost of being right, for me, was far too great and painful. So, when I see people here railing against the prophet and other church leaders for perhaps both legitimate and illegitimate reasons, I want to offer a voice of warning. That path leads to nowhere but personal misery. If certain members of this group aren't there yet, trust me, they don't want to go there. If they are, the're in the depths of bitterness and may not realize it yet. Either way, criticizing and condemning church leaders will never lead anybody to Christ. Contention is of the devil and engaging in it is doing nothing but serving his purposes. The outcome will always be destructive to those who engage in it and their innocent loved ones. Just don't do it.


Those who feel this justifies their criticisms need to understand that Christ was directly speaking to them as well. It isn't their place to judge and condemn. If they're doing this, then it is them who needs to repent and to forgive.

Christ spoke out against being judgmental, rejecting prophets, condemning others, contending with others, being uncharitable, etc. If we're engaged in such behavior then we have indeed gone astray.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber." I've been going through GC talks recently and it seems to me the warnings are non-stop and the suggestions for change are aplenty. These warnings are even more direct in GA-led training meetings and stake conferences. I used to feel the way you apparently do about it, but I discovered it was my back-biting that was preventing me from seeing things more clearly.


I realize we're all on different paths and at different levels in our understanding, beliefs, testimony, etc. May I suggest that honest and humble statements/comments like, "I'm struggling with this topic," or "I don't understand this point of doctrine, can anyone help?" are more likely to lead individuals to Christ than, "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." It's not possible to hear the spirit and correctly interpret his promptings while tearing down church leadership and engaging in all the negative behaviors that Christ condemned. I know this from personal experience. I'd like to help others learn from my experiences rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
It wasn't the fact that you left that was the problem, it was the bitterness in your heart.

There are plenty of people who leave and live morally, spiritually, religious fulfilled lives where they worship God.

It's Church and culture brainwashing that says anyone and everyone who decides to leave has a bitter life. It is a manipulative technique that forces people to stay for fear rather than trusting God.
No, it was very much the fact I left. Saying that you can leave Christ's church to go worship Christ in a fulfilling manner is the biggest falsehood on the planet. Sure, you may be fulfilled for a time by satisfying your lusts and being a slave to your own conceit, but that won't last long. It never does.

Christianlee
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Posts: 2531

Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by Christianlee »

I suspect Stanford will be off the schedule now that BYU is in the Big 12. Good riddance.

Atrasado
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Posts: 1768

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am
Atrasado wrote: November 28th, 2022, 10:26 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:50 am
Being There wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:45 am

say pointless and silly things.. lol.
you mean like you - a TBM - who like their leaders - say pointless and silly things
to try to justify anything and everything their corrupt church leaders say and do.
Well, this is a church-related website talking about church-related things, so shouldn't the topics be, you know, about the church?

If the point of the site is to rail against the church and its leaders, to mock and insult its members, and to generally be a collective of clowns and jerks, then let me know and I'll jump out. I have zero interest in entertaining the bitter and divisive ignorance of others.
There's a wide spectrum of people on this site and none of us are right about everything and none of us completely agree with anyone else on this site. I share Rob Smith's belief, though, that those who love the Savior will eventually see their difference melt away.

I think that most, if not all, of us love the Church that Christ founded through Joseph Smith. We recognize that there are some significant issues with the Church and it's leaders and we try to take the Holy Spirit as our guide. We study the scriptures and see prophecies about our concerns so we know that God knew what would happen and had a plan.

Most of us know that the Lord was serious when He said that not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will be saved but only those who repent and do our Heavenly Father's will will be.

Most of us don't think we are better than anyone else and we are aware of most of our sins. So we aren't crying other's iniquity and that they are out of the way while proclaiming our innocence. I'm not innocent.

Let me give you one small example of a problem I see. I live in a middle class neighborhood in Rexburg. We are so Church-centric that we have one family in the ward who aren't members and they are active in the Church and serve in callings. But when we had a discussion on a combined fifth Sunday on ways to prepare to return to the temple after the Covid-19 shutdowns the only comments that were offered were jokes. I sat for 10 or 15 minutes while adult after adult, many who work for the Church, tried to be funny. Then I raised my hand and suggested that perhaps we could best prepare to return to the temple by repenting of our sins. You could tell that people thought I was so odd for saying that.

It's weird because when I was a young man in the eighties and nineties we, unfortunately, had lots of sin but it seemed that we at least had the good sense to be ashamed of our sins and it seemed that most members wanted to do better. We mostly didn't act like sin wasn't sin. I don't see that as much anymore. People will believe and do any awful thing they want without thinking twice about it and will tell themselves that they are a chosen generation.

The leaders didn't lead us astray. We get the leaders we deserve. We went astray and then God gave us what we wanted anyways--watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber and tell us smooth words and have entire law firms and PR reps on permenant retainer. They didn't finish the watchtower but invested the Lord's money with the exchangers instead. Of such the Lord said their works would be destroyed. (See D&C 101:51) But don't take my word for it, read the scriptures. Because Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul, and Joseph Smith said all of this much more harshly than any of us ever could.
Thanks for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate knowing where you're coming from.

I agree that there are issues within the leadership/membership of the church; however, this is to be expected since none of us are perfect. I believe this is why Christ spent so much time teaching us to love each other and not to judge each other.

About 16 years ago now, I saw a series of flaws in both my bishop and stake president (cronyism, abuse of church funds, teaching false doctrine, etc.). I addressed the issues directly with them on multiple occasions and also spent a lot of time criticizing them to anyone who would listen (similar to many of the comments on this forum). After four years, I had enough and ended up getting my name removed from the records of the church and spending the next four or five years exploring every vice the church speaks out against (as a musician, that ended up being sex, drugs, alcohol, and rock and roll).

My life became an absolute disaster! It took a long time and a lot of work, but I finally got my life turned around and rejoined the church. I still believe I was right regarding my former bishop and stake president, but the cost of being right, for me, was far too great and painful. So, when I see people here railing against the prophet and other church leaders for perhaps both legitimate and illegitimate reasons, I want to offer a voice of warning. That path leads to nowhere but personal misery. If certain members of this group aren't there yet, trust me, they don't want to go there. If they are, they're in the depths of bitterness and may not realize it yet. Either way, criticizing and condemning church leaders will never lead anybody to Christ. Contention is of the devil and engaging in it is doing nothing but serving his purposes. The outcome will always be destructive to those who engage in it and their innocent loved ones. Just don't do it.


Those who feel this justifies their criticisms need to understand that Christ was directly speaking to them as well. It isn't their place to judge and condemn. If they're doing this, then it is them who needs to repent and to forgive.

Christ spoke out against being judgmental, rejecting prophets, condemning others, contending with others, being uncharitable, etc. If we're engaged in such behavior then we have indeed gone astray.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber." I've been going through GC talks recently and it seems to me the warnings are non-stop and the suggestions for change are aplenty. These warnings are even more direct in GA-led training meetings and stake conferences. I used to feel the way you apparently do about it, but I discovered it was my back-biting that was preventing me from seeing things more clearly.


I realize we're all on different paths and at different levels in our understanding, beliefs, testimony, etc. May I suggest that honest and humble statements/comments like, "I'm struggling with this topic," or "I don't understand this point of doctrine, can anyone help?" are more likely to lead individuals to Christ than, "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." It's not possible to hear the spirit and correctly interpret his promptings while tearing down church leadership and engaging in all the negative behaviors that Christ condemned. I know this from personal experience. I'd like to help others learn from my experiences rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
I see where you are coming from. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a wonderful thing and it's benefits to our happiness can't be overstated. And criticism can be corrosive, especially to the critic when it is judgmental.

We are commanded to not judge others. However, there are certain circumstances where we are commanded to judge. One such case is to judge if a prophet is speaking for God. The scriptures offer a clear and simple test. When speaking in the Lord's name, did they speak the truth? No exceptions are mentioned that I could find.

To me it seems that dedicated members of the Church don't like that test because if they apply it they feel like it leaves them with too much uncertainty. They have a testimony of the Church and prophets when they should have a testimony of Jesus Christ. It's been argued to me that the Church and the prophet are a subset of Christ, but that's an idea that isn't quite true and causes lots of problems when taken too literally.

Back to the subject of criticism. We are told that we are not to even rail against the devil (D&C 50:31-33) and that even Michael the Archangel durst not rail against Satan but merely rebuked him in the name of the Lord (Jude 1:9). Yet once we are awake we are to warn others which is not easy to do. Generally they won't let themselves see the truth or they take prophets stumbling as license to eat, drink, and be merry.

In reality, we should awaken to our truly awful situation (Ether 8:24) and repent of our sins and unbelief and turn to Christ with our whole hearts. We must take the Holy Spirit as our guide and see ourselves as fools before Christ. The day will be here swiftly in which the only safety will be in Jesus Christ and if we don't know Him we will not survive that day.

What will those who trust in prophets and apostles as if they are God do when those prophets and apostles' sins are revealed (they have truly joined Babylon and have partaken of ALL her sins) in a manner which cannot be denied? (See Isaiah 28 and D&C 64:38-40) Their faith in God will be destroyed. We must see things clearly by God's Spirit or we won't be able to stand.
Last edited by Atrasado on November 28th, 2022, 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2276

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by spiritMan »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:34 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:07 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am
Atrasado wrote: November 28th, 2022, 10:26 am

There's a wide spectrum of people on this site and none of us are right about everything and none of us completely agree with anyone else on this site. I share Rob Smith's belief, though, that those who love the Savior will eventually see their difference melt away.

I think that most, if not all, of us love the Church that Christ founded through Joseph Smith. We recognize that there are some significant issues with the Church and it's leaders and we try to take the Holy Spirit as our guide. We study the scriptures and see prophecies about our concerns so we know that God knew what would happen and had a plan.

Most of us know that the Lord was serious when He said that not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will be saved but only those who repent and do our Heavenly Father's will will be.

Most of us don't think we are better than anyone else and we are aware of most of our sins. So we aren't crying other's iniquity and that they are out of the way while proclaiming our innocence. I'm not innocent.

Let me give you one small example of a problem I see. I live in a middle class neighborhood in Rexburg. We are so Church-centric that we have one family in the ward who aren't members and they are active in the Church and serve in callings. But when we had a discussion on a combined fifth Sunday on ways to prepare to return to the temple after the Covid-19 shutdowns the only comments that were offered were jokes. I sat for 10 or 15 minutes while adult after adult, many who work for the Church, tried to be funny. Then I raised my hand and suggested that perhaps we could best prepare to return to the temple by repenting of our sins. You could tell that people thought I was so odd for saying that.

It's weird because when I was a young man in the eighties and nineties we, unfortunately, had lots of sin but it seemed that we at least had the good sense to be ashamed of our sins and it seemed that most members wanted to do better. We mostly didn't act like sin wasn't sin. I don't see that as much anymore. People will believe and do any awful thing they want without thinking twice about it and will tell themselves that they are a chosen generation.

The leaders didn't lead us astray. We get the leaders we deserve. We went astray and then God gave us what we wanted anyways--watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber and tell us smooth words and have entire law firms and PR reps on permenant retainer. They didn't finish the watchtower but invested the Lord's money with the exchangers instead. Of such the Lord said their works would be destroyed. (See D&C 101:51) But don't take my word for it, read the scriptures. Because Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul, and Joseph Smith said all of this much more harshly than any of us ever could.
Thanks for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate knowing where you're coming from.

I agree that there are issues within the leadership/membership of the church; however, this is to be expected since none of us are perfect. I believe this is why Christ spent so much time teaching us to love each other and not to judge each other.

About 16 years ago now, I saw a series of flaws in both my bishop and stake president (cronyism, abuse of church funds, teaching false doctrine, etc.). I addressed the issues directly with them on multiple occasions and also spent a lot of time criticizing them to anyone who would listen (similar to many of the comments on this forum). After four years, I had enough and ended up getting my name removed from the records of the church and spending the next four or five years exploring every vice the church speaks out against (as a musician, that ended up being sex, drugs, alcohol, and rock and roll).

My life became an absolute disaster! It took a long time and a lot of work, but I finally got my life turned around and rejoined the church. I still believe I was right regarding my former bishop and stake president, but the cost of being right, for me, was far too great and painful. So, when I see people here railing against the prophet and other church leaders for perhaps both legitimate and illegitimate reasons, I want to offer a voice of warning. That path leads to nowhere but personal misery. If certain members of this group aren't there yet, trust me, they don't want to go there. If they are, the're in the depths of bitterness and may not realize it yet. Either way, criticizing and condemning church leaders will never lead anybody to Christ. Contention is of the devil and engaging in it is doing nothing but serving his purposes. The outcome will always be destructive to those who engage in it and their innocent loved ones. Just don't do it.


Those who feel this justifies their criticisms need to understand that Christ was directly speaking to them as well. It isn't their place to judge and condemn. If they're doing this, then it is them who needs to repent and to forgive.

Christ spoke out against being judgmental, rejecting prophets, condemning others, contending with others, being uncharitable, etc. If we're engaged in such behavior then we have indeed gone astray.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber." I've been going through GC talks recently and it seems to me the warnings are non-stop and the suggestions for change are aplenty. These warnings are even more direct in GA-led training meetings and stake conferences. I used to feel the way you apparently do about it, but I discovered it was my back-biting that was preventing me from seeing things more clearly.


I realize we're all on different paths and at different levels in our understanding, beliefs, testimony, etc. May I suggest that honest and humble statements/comments like, "I'm struggling with this topic," or "I don't understand this point of doctrine, can anyone help?" are more likely to lead individuals to Christ than, "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." It's not possible to hear the spirit and correctly interpret his promptings while tearing down church leadership and engaging in all the negative behaviors that Christ condemned. I know this from personal experience. I'd like to help others learn from my experiences rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
It wasn't the fact that you left that was the problem, it was the bitterness in your heart.

There are plenty of people who leave and live morally, spiritually, religious fulfilled lives where they worship God.

It's Church and culture brainwashing that says anyone and everyone who decides to leave has a bitter life. It is a manipulative technique that forces people to stay for fear rather than trusting God.
No, it was very much the fact I left. Saying that you can leave Christ's church to go worship Christ in a fulfilling manner is the biggest falsehood on the planet. Sure, you may be fulfilled for a time by satisfying your lusts and being a slave to your own conceit, but that won't last long. It never does.
Typical brothernite attitude, which states if you leave the Church you are going to fulfill a bunch of lusts...okay....

Sure I guess you wanted to, but I nor family would.

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 265

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by innocentoldguy »

spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 3:42 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:34 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:07 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am

Thanks for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate knowing where you're coming from.

I agree that there are issues within the leadership/membership of the church; however, this is to be expected since none of us are perfect. I believe this is why Christ spent so much time teaching us to love each other and not to judge each other.

About 16 years ago now, I saw a series of flaws in both my bishop and stake president (cronyism, abuse of church funds, teaching false doctrine, etc.). I addressed the issues directly with them on multiple occasions and also spent a lot of time criticizing them to anyone who would listen (similar to many of the comments on this forum). After four years, I had enough and ended up getting my name removed from the records of the church and spending the next four or five years exploring every vice the church speaks out against (as a musician, that ended up being sex, drugs, alcohol, and rock and roll).

My life became an absolute disaster! It took a long time and a lot of work, but I finally got my life turned around and rejoined the church. I still believe I was right regarding my former bishop and stake president, but the cost of being right, for me, was far too great and painful. So, when I see people here railing against the prophet and other church leaders for perhaps both legitimate and illegitimate reasons, I want to offer a voice of warning. That path leads to nowhere but personal misery. If certain members of this group aren't there yet, trust me, they don't want to go there. If they are, the're in the depths of bitterness and may not realize it yet. Either way, criticizing and condemning church leaders will never lead anybody to Christ. Contention is of the devil and engaging in it is doing nothing but serving his purposes. The outcome will always be destructive to those who engage in it and their innocent loved ones. Just don't do it.


Those who feel this justifies their criticisms need to understand that Christ was directly speaking to them as well. It isn't their place to judge and condemn. If they're doing this, then it is them who needs to repent and to forgive.

Christ spoke out against being judgmental, rejecting prophets, condemning others, contending with others, being uncharitable, etc. If we're engaged in such behavior then we have indeed gone astray.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "watchdogs who don't bark and seers who slumber." I've been going through GC talks recently and it seems to me the warnings are non-stop and the suggestions for change are aplenty. These warnings are even more direct in GA-led training meetings and stake conferences. I used to feel the way you apparently do about it, but I discovered it was my back-biting that was preventing me from seeing things more clearly.


I realize we're all on different paths and at different levels in our understanding, beliefs, testimony, etc. May I suggest that honest and humble statements/comments like, "I'm struggling with this topic," or "I don't understand this point of doctrine, can anyone help?" are more likely to lead individuals to Christ than, "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." It's not possible to hear the spirit and correctly interpret his promptings while tearing down church leadership and engaging in all the negative behaviors that Christ condemned. I know this from personal experience. I'd like to help others learn from my experiences rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
It wasn't the fact that you left that was the problem, it was the bitterness in your heart.

There are plenty of people who leave and live morally, spiritually, religious fulfilled lives where they worship God.

It's Church and culture brainwashing that says anyone and everyone who decides to leave has a bitter life. It is a manipulative technique that forces people to stay for fear rather than trusting God.
No, it was very much the fact I left. Saying that you can leave Christ's church to go worship Christ in a fulfilling manner is the biggest falsehood on the planet. Sure, you may be fulfilled for a time by satisfying your lusts and being a slave to your own conceit, but that won't last long. It never does.
Typical brothernite attitude, which states if you leave the Church you are going to fulfill a bunch of lusts...okay....

Sure I guess you wanted to, but I nor family would.
But you are. You're fulfilling your lust for pride, unrighteous judgement, and your desire to become an agent unto yourself. Feel free to read up on what the Lord thinks about those things in the scriptures if you doubt me.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2276

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by spiritMan »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:13 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 3:42 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:34 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:07 pm
It wasn't the fact that you left that was the problem, it was the bitterness in your heart.

There are plenty of people who leave and live morally, spiritually, religious fulfilled lives where they worship God.

It's Church and culture brainwashing that says anyone and everyone who decides to leave has a bitter life. It is a manipulative technique that forces people to stay for fear rather than trusting God.
No, it was very much the fact I left. Saying that you can leave Christ's church to go worship Christ in a fulfilling manner is the biggest falsehood on the planet. Sure, you may be fulfilled for a time by satisfying your lusts and being a slave to your own conceit, but that won't last long. It never does.
Typical brothernite attitude, which states if you leave the Church you are going to fulfill a bunch of lusts...okay....

Sure I guess you wanted to, but I nor family would.
But you are. You're fulfilling your lust for pride, unrighteous judgement, and your desire to become an agent unto yourself. Feel free to read up on what the Lord thinks about those things in the scriptures if you doubt me.
That's what you think; I believe being a part of a Church and a faith community is important. It is important to submit oneself to a religious authority.

When the religious authorities teach gross immorality, I am under no obligation to continue to join myself to their religion.

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dreamtheater76
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Posts: 909

Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by dreamtheater76 »

If it’s persecution for righteousness sake I have thick enough skin to not let it bother me. I really don’t care what other people think. When the forces of evil attack me I take it as a compliment.

In this case I t’s more of just toxic sports rivalries. I think it’s an embarrassment to even get involved in this sort of behavior. I’m sure a lot of these people are uneducated and think we are still polygamists. I’m sure that’s all they really think about us. Their behavior just shows a lack of maturity. I don’t let it bother me. I have a million other things I am more concerned over. I don’t even watch sports anymore because of politics.

Probably a waste of time worrying about these sorts of things. People who follow Christ are always going to be persecuted. The best thing you or I could do is not give any of these people any attention. Maybe even better don’t watch KSL, read Deseret News, both whom are just as bad as mainstream media when it comes to anything. All these obnoxious fans and mainstream media want is attention. Don’t give them any.

Bake these people a cake or invite them over for family home evening.

tribrac
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Re: Mormons need to start fighting back against mockery- this is getting pathetic

Post by tribrac »

Did that dude just argue that free.agency is a sinful lust? Kind of feels like he did.

Wow.

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 265

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by innocentoldguy »

spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:49 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:13 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 3:42 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:34 pm

No, it was very much the fact I left. Saying that you can leave Christ's church to go worship Christ in a fulfilling manner is the biggest falsehood on the planet. Sure, you may be fulfilled for a time by satisfying your lusts and being a slave to your own conceit, but that won't last long. It never does.
Typical brothernite attitude, which states if you leave the Church you are going to fulfill a bunch of lusts...okay....

Sure I guess you wanted to, but I nor family would.
But you are. You're fulfilling your lust for pride, unrighteous judgement, and your desire to become an agent unto yourself. Feel free to read up on what the Lord thinks about those things in the scriptures if you doubt me.
That's what you think; I believe being a part of a Church and a faith community is important. It is important to submit oneself to a religious authority.

When the religious authorities teach gross immorality, I am under no obligation to continue to join myself to their religion.
:roll: How is the church teaching "gross immorality"?

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by BeNotDeceived »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am ... "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." ... rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
BeNotDeceived wrote: February 1st, 2022, 1:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2022, 12:09 pm If Joseph did as you (and others) say he did, he was a fallen prophet.
Image

The most correct book.

jk Part 3 is pigswill :lol:
There's a well researched book about it, but yes Part3 is Pigswill. My word choice too was in error. More correctly brother Brigham and company "raped" the church and/or worse. No other prophet has fallen, for obvious reasons.

Thankfully we have heard from a Spirit about many fabrications, such as Moroni being an angel. The point was made clear when a 5.7 magnitude earthquake landed his instrument. The timing of the quake formed a pattern that spelled the same name as was observed when I took a strange photo at an amazing place as shown at https://march8miracle.org.

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 265

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by innocentoldguy »

BeNotDeceived wrote: November 28th, 2022, 5:01 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am ... "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." ... rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
BeNotDeceived wrote: February 1st, 2022, 1:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2022, 12:09 pm If Joseph did as you (and others) say he did, he was a fallen prophet.
Image

The most correct book.

jk Part 3 is pigswill :lol:
There's a well researched book about it, but yes Part3 is Pigswill. My word choice too was in error. More correctly brother Brigham and company "raped" the church and/or worse. No other prophet has fallen, for obvious reasons.

Thankfully we have heard from a Spirit about many fabrications, such as Moroni being an angel. The point was made clear when a 5.7 magnitude earthquake landed his instrument. The timing of the quake formed a pattern that spelled the same name as was observed when I took a strange photo at an amazing place as shown at https://march8miracle.org.
I'm sure "a Spirit" did tell you this. May I suggest listening to The Spirit?

spiritMan
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Posts: 2276

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by spiritMan »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:55 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:49 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:13 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 3:42 pm
Typical brothernite attitude, which states if you leave the Church you are going to fulfill a bunch of lusts...okay....

Sure I guess you wanted to, but I nor family would.
But you are. You're fulfilling your lust for pride, unrighteous judgement, and your desire to become an agent unto yourself. Feel free to read up on what the Lord thinks about those things in the scriptures if you doubt me.
That's what you think; I believe being a part of a Church and a faith community is important. It is important to submit oneself to a religious authority.

When the religious authorities teach gross immorality, I am under no obligation to continue to join myself to their religion.
:roll: How is the church teaching "gross immorality"?
Simple. Homosexual romantic behavior is condoned.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by BeNotDeceived »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 5:05 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: November 28th, 2022, 5:01 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:55 am ... "The prophet is fallen and the church has been &#%!@?." ... rather than having to suffer their own destruction to come to this knowledge.
BeNotDeceived wrote: February 1st, 2022, 1:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2022, 12:09 pm If Joseph did as you (and others) say he did, he was a fallen prophet.
Image

The most correct book.

jk Part 3 is pigswill :lol:
There's a well researched book about it, but yes Part3 is Pigswill. My word choice too was in error. More correctly brother Brigham and company "raped" the church and/or worse. No other prophet has fallen, for obvious reasons.

Thankfully we have heard from a Spirit about many fabrications, such as Moroni being an angel. The point was made clear when a 5.7 magnitude earthquake landed his instrument. The timing of the quake formed a pattern that spelled the same name as was observed when I took a strange photo at an amazing place as shown at https://march8miracle.org.
I'm sure "a Spirit" did tell you this. May I suggest listening to The Spirit?
The name spelt with and without silent H is double assurance that it’s from a good source. :)

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2276

Re: this is getting pathetic

Post by spiritMan »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:55 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:49 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 4:13 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 3:42 pm
Typical brothernite attitude, which states if you leave the Church you are going to fulfill a bunch of lusts...okay....

Sure I guess you wanted to, but I nor family would.
But you are. You're fulfilling your lust for pride, unrighteous judgement, and your desire to become an agent unto yourself. Feel free to read up on what the Lord thinks about those things in the scriptures if you doubt me.
That's what you think; I believe being a part of a Church and a faith community is important. It is important to submit oneself to a religious authority.

When the religious authorities teach gross immorality, I am under no obligation to continue to join myself to their religion.
:roll: How is the church teaching "gross immorality"?
Try doing some research.
https://www.tumblr.com/nerdygaymormon

https://www.tumblr.com/nerdygaymormon/6 ... e-renlunds

This man is in a Stake calling. Openly talks about that he is cleared to date other men. The Q15 are aware of his blog. He promotes everything LGBTQ+, advocates the Church change is doctrine.

Nothing is done.

You really need to listen to those who have been following this in the trenches a LOT longer than your johnny come lately... no no the Church is the same as it always was.

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