LDS Freedom Forum

ransomme wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:15 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 4:29 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:35 am
But then how does everyone in the outer reaches of the plate/flat earth see the same "southern hemisphere" sky?

How could they possibly navigate by the southern cross?

Because of the increasing circumference the further out one is on a flat earth the sky would have move faster and faster in order to make one rotation in the same 24 hours.

The way the sun, the moon and the stars observably move could not happen on a flat earth.

Flat earth theory falls flat

They don't see them at the same time and the outer stars do move faster.

Watch the video Pazooka posted right under your post. Let us know what you think.

I watched it. But it seems that there is a reason why the flat earth models are static. It don't think they work in motion. Like I was looking for a simulation of the movement of the sky, particularly of the Sun, for one solar year. But seeing as how there isn't even a set map I suppose I shouldn't hold my breath.

Flights still don't work on a flat map. And i have personally flown artic flights and can confirm through visual confirmation that these are real trajectories.

My neighbor’s husband was flying home from Dubai and this was the real-time flight tracker she was monitoring.

If you changed this to a flat-earth map, that’s the only way it makes any sense. It would be practically a straight line.

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 3:21 pm Here we go Steve, from Pazooka:

Which way is south on this map?

Pazooka wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:37 pm My neighbor’s husband was flying home from Dubai and this was the real-time flight tracker she was monitoring.

If you changed this to a flat-earth map, that’s the only way it makes any sense. It would be practically a straight line.

That's actually almost the shortest distance between Dubai and San Francisco on a globe, too.

Here's the FlightAware map of a non-stop flight between the two: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE ... /OMDB/KSFO You can see it matches the logged flight plan of your friend pretty closely. Might even be the same flight. Distance Actual: 8,580 mi (Direct: 8,099 mi)

And I checked it on Google Earth. The picture's hard to see, I admit. I can't figure out how to share a link like in Google Maps, but anyone can do this to confirm me. The yellow line is the shortest distance between the two airports, which is always along a great circle on a sphere. And the distance is basically the same as what FlightAware shows.

This basically confirms what I've found in the past: flight navigation is essentially the same between a flat and globe earth for the northern latitudes. To really start seeing differences, you have to look at the southern latitudes, and then you start running into factors other than shortest distance, like laws, treaties, etc. It's really pretty frustrating, if you ask me.

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:44 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:17 pm

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 12:43 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:26 am Someone also mentioned that people aren't allowed to even visit Antarctica much less go to the South Pole...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaezIhiB4QM

This is a Chilean town that is in Antarctica. Many people are soldiers and family of soldiers but there are people that have their specializations, including a bank manager that heads the only bank in Antarctica.

Video is in Spanish.

Oh brother. (Does anybody know how to post screen shots?) Frustrating. But at (I think it was) 1:36, we see it is just an island at the northern tip of the archipelago, big deal. And it is at the 62nd Parallel when the complaint is about anything south of 60. And, does that constitute having the freedom to explore Antarctica?

This is the kind of stuff that bogs down any kind of productive dialogue.

The Argentinian town (which is also mentioned in the video) is on the continent itself (on the peninsula), and one degree south of the Villa Las Estrellas.

This destroys the argument that "no one is allowed in Antartica." People don't explore Antarctica a lot, however, due to extreme climatic conditions, this is not advisable unless you are well prepared for it. Those are two cities with civilian populations and babies have been born in Antarctica, as the video also showed.

There is an American station on the South Pole itself, and there are multiple stations on the interior of Antarctica from several different nations. Vostok is a particularly notable one as it has registered the earth's confirmed coldest temperature at minus 89 celsius. Some satellite readings have detected temperatures as low as minus 94 celsius in regions surrounding Vostok.

You are right, whoever said people are not allowed there obviously overgeneralized. Private citizens are not allowed to explore, and there are several incidents where people have tried to and were stopped. Okay, there is a military village on the peninsula and no doubt other military bases. Can you provide any information leading to explorers actually exploring the place?

Amundsen and Scott were the first to explore the area near a century ago, and the latter died due to being exposed to extreme climatic conditions. Remember, there are parts of Antarctica that are colder than Mars.

There was a team that crossed the continent on dogsled in 1990.

https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/b ... ntarctica/

Other expeditions here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... xpeditions

ransomme wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:15 pm Flights still don't work on a flat map. And i have personally flown artic flights and can confirm through visual confirmation that these are real trajectories.

Flatten out that picture of flight paths you've shown and you get a straight line.

Why would that a plane leave LA and go about 2500 miles north to greenland? Why doesn't the picture show a straight path? When you look at a flight path from above it is a straight line.

All my flights to and America and Europe or Asia have flown over the north. It a straight line on flat map, that's why.

Take out an actual globe map of the earth that comes on a stand and put a string on the globe from LA to Helsinki, you will never cross Greenland.

Fred wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 11:32 am Why does the water swirl the opposite way south of the equator when you flush the sink or toilet?

It doesn't.

If it effected water that quickly at all, we would be able to feel it too. One can tell you are new to all of this.

h_p wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 11:34 am The constellations don't get smaller the further away you are from the center. They're the same size in the sky at the equator as they are in Canada.

Yes, that's a good point to keep in mind. One thing to add to it as well is that the moisture content increase as well and I imagine humidity over distances would enlarge an image. Directly above you, let's say there is a hundred miles of air in between you and the stars. If you are a thousand miles south looking at the same stars, there is an additional 1000 miles of atmosphere. What does all that humidity do to the image?

BroJones wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:52 am Indeed, how does one explain the change of seasons in a flat-earth model? Where is the 23-degree tilt in such a model?

The sun's course in the sky changes, no tilt needed.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:16 pm

Fred wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 11:32 am Why does the water swirl the opposite way south of the equator when you flush the sink or toilet?

It doesn't.

If it effected water that quickly at all, we would be able to feel it too. One can tell you are new to all of this.

Well, I watched Allison's video about the Coriolis effect. Experts say that the Coriolis effect has zero effect on moving air at the equator and One can find both counterclockwise and clockwise flowing drains in both hemispheres. Some people would like you to believe that the Coriolis force affects the flow of water down the drain in sinks, bathtubs, or toilet bowls. Don’t believe them! The Coriolis force is simply too weak to affect such small bodies of water.

So instead of a pissing match where I declare my scientist is smarter than yours, I will simply agree to disagree.

I would point out that anyone, especially in Australia or anywhere closer to the south pole can simply fly a plane over there and find out. It is not like they would get shot down. The flights you claimed do not exist, do exist. There are regular ship cruises around the polar ice. I asked a question a while back that no one answered. That is which way is south on a flat earth map? Perhaps you can try that one.

h_p wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 12:56 pm I posted multiple videos that have been claimed to have been taken from the geographic south pole.

Fixed it.

Do you think maybe the same money behind Antarctica is the same money behind Nasa? Just a thought.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:05 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:15 pm Flights still don't work on a flat map. And i have personally flown artic flights and can confirm through visual confirmation that these are real trajectories.

Flatten out that picture of flight paths you've shown and you get a straight line.

Why would that a plane leave LA and go about 2500 miles north to greenland? Why doesn't the picture show a straight path? When you look at a flight path from above it is a straight line.

All my flights to and America and Europe or Asia have flown over the north. It a straight line on flat map, that's why.

Take out an actual globe map of the earth that comes on a stand and put a string on the globe from LA to Helsinki, you will never cross Greenland.

It totally does, you can check it on Google Earth. And this flight pretty much tracks along that same great circle, aka shortest distance, between LA and Helsinki: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FIN ... /KLAX/EFHK

Like I said above, nobody's going to prove anything either way with flights. But I would honestly like to know if there's a discrepancy between the Google Earth distance and a physical globe. Can you find a shorter length of string that will get you from LA to Helsinki on a physical globe without going over Greenland?

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:47 pm

h_p wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 12:56 pm I posted multiple videos that have been claimed to have been taken from the geographic south pole.

Fixed it.

Do you think maybe the same money behind Antarctica is the same money behind Nasa? Just a thought.

I do concede that that is possible, and I don't disagree with your correction. I even mentioned as much earlier today in one of these threads, actually, that I could think of plenty of reasons not to believe them. But at the same time, we both have to recognize that absolutely nobody in existence can be forced to believe something against their will. Someone can ALWAYS find an alternative explanation for anything. Some more contorted than others, of course. And then there's the old "put it on the shelf" method of coping with evidence that contradicts your beliefs. We're all quite familiar with that one in this church.

Fred wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 7:06 pm

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 3:21 pm Here we go Steve, from Pazooka:

Which way is south on this map?

The outer rim.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:22 pm Do some real research and work with real mathematics.

If I show you some solid math that Unicorns are real, will you be a believer?

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:57 pm

Fred wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 7:06 pm

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 3:21 pm Here we go Steve, from Pazooka:

Which way is south on this map?

The outer rim.

Do you mean all of the way around?

Fred wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 9:01 pm

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:57 pm

Fred wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 7:06 pm

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 3:21 pm Here we go Steve, from Pazooka:

Which way is south on this map?

The outer rim.

Do you mean all of the way around?

Yes. Assuming this is a reasonable approximation of our earth, north would be the North Pole/center, And south would be every direction away from that.

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:05 pm

You can see the Southern Cross from Japan. Cool!

This is a good video explaining the perspective of the Southern Cross and it's a short video, just 6 minutes.

h_p wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:48 pm Can you find a shorter length of string that will get you from LA to Helsinki on a physical globe without going over Greenland?

I actually might just go buy a globe. This is kinda fun! I let you know if I do.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 9:12 pm

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:05 pm

You can see the Southern Cross from Japan. Cool!

This is a good video explaining the perspective of the Southern Cross and it's a short video, just 6 minutes.

If you are talking Okinawa Island, yes, that is possible, given that its latitude is only about 26 degrees north, like Miami. Even so, the Southern Cross would just barely be hugging over the southern horizon at about 4 degrees.

But the vast majority of Japan cannot see under any circumstances the Southern Cross.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 8:59 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:22 pm Do some real research and work with real mathematics.

If I show you some solid math that Unicorns are real, will you be a believer?

Do some real research and work with real mathematics.

Unless you believe that an airplane traveling from Sydney to Santiago is traveling at Mach 2.5.

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 6:04 pm

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:55 pm

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:44 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 5:17 pm

The Argentinian town (which is also mentioned in the video) is on the continent itself (on the peninsula), and one degree south of the Villa Las Estrellas.

This destroys the argument that "no one is allowed in Antartica." People don't explore Antarctica a lot, however, due to extreme climatic conditions, this is not advisable unless you are well prepared for it. Those are two cities with civilian populations and babies have been born in Antarctica, as the video also showed.

There is an American station on the South Pole itself, and there are multiple stations on the interior of Antarctica from several different nations. Vostok is a particularly notable one as it has registered the earth's confirmed coldest temperature at minus 89 celsius. Some satellite readings have detected temperatures as low as minus 94 celsius in regions surrounding Vostok.

You are right, whoever said people are not allowed there obviously overgeneralized. Private citizens are not allowed to explore, and there are several incidents where people have tried to and were stopped. Okay, there is a military village on the peninsula and no doubt other military bases. Can you provide any information leading to explorers actually exploring the place?

Who stops them?

The military. I should look for some video reports about this. But first, will post one about the Southern Cross.

The military would not waste an entire garrison trying to stop people from penetrating the continent interior. The catabatic winds and minus 100 degree windchills do MORE than enough for that to happen.

There have been many expeditions to the South Pole. There is even a station at the South Pole manned by Americans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ3_gZ3ZS_4

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 10:03 pm

Holy Cow Allison! Great find!

This 10 InfoWars video by Greg Reese might just be the most informative for its length and it is definitely the best produced video.

This is a must watch by all.

I watch threads like this sliding the forum and diluting it. I hope this isn't your M.O.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑December 11th, 2022, 12:37 am

Allison wrote: ↑December 10th, 2022, 10:03 pm

Holy Cow Allison! Great find!

This 10 InfoWars video by Greg Reese might just be the most informative for its length and it is definitely the best produced video.

This is a must watch by all.

Thanks, Allison and Shawn - I watched it.
The Einstein quotes made me smile... misinterpretation?

Anyway, do you agree with the argument in the video that Antarctica "circles" the flat earth and so cannot be circumnavigated? Would appreciate your comment on this - Greg Resee lays down a challenge here!