Flat Earth

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

BroJones wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:38 am 2 eclipses How in Flat Earth.jpgI see that my question in another (concurrent) thread on this topic has gone Unanswered, sigh.

So I repeat my question here using a screen copy.

Note that my question is based on DATA including personal Observations of both solar and lunar (blood moon) eclipses.
Yeah sure. Something unknown is eclipsing the sun and the moon. How's that for an answer? Can we get an acknowledgement that anything above is completely independent of what we are standing on?

Care to answer my question? How do the earth's waters stay above the sun, moon, and stars?

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Shawn Henry wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 4:51 pm Have you all really thought the North Star through?

Are you really going to maintain that an explosion resulted in one dominant star in the sky that all other stars rotate around in perfect circles?

On top of that, do you really think there was a star before that one that was in the same spot and all the stars then just happened to rotate perfectly around that one as well?
Is this a trick question or something? You mean like this, right?

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

BroJones wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:38 am 2 eclipses How in Flat Earth.jpgI see that my question in another (concurrent) thread on this topic has gone Unanswered, sigh.

So I repeat my question here using a screen copy.

Note that my question is based on DATA including personal Observations of both solar and lunar (blood moon) eclipses.
Sorry Steve, this is the first I’ve seen your question. Though you just posted it yesterday.

Congratulations on DATA. There’s also data that supports global warming/cooling and the “dangers” of climate change. And data is what gave us the Covid hoax, so you’ll understand if we are not impressed by the possession of data.

A solar eclipse would be easy to explain within a firmament dome. We do not assume that the moon is reflecting sunlight.

As for a blood moon, we are not bound by ball-based assumptions, so we are not claiming that the earth is in fact blocking the sun.

Reminder: the question is only, “Where is the curve?”

larsenb
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by larsenb »

Pseudonym wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:53 am I worked for the government (defense department) when I finished college (joint degree in math and physics). I am convinced that our government is chuck full of conspiracies. t – that something is a conspiracy. If someone (or organization) has a competitor – of necessity, there will be things that they will not want their competitor to have unfettered access to. The fact that there are classified projects is absolute proof that there are government conspiracies – lots of them. Many of these classified projects (conspiracies) involved elected officials (including the president or just about anyone involved in any of the many close door committees).

I would also make some observations about technology in society. With extremely rare exceptions, the experts in advanced and cutting-edge technology are also involved in management (oversite) or the editorialization of such technological projects. Those that aspire to control the purse strings, manage people or publish interesting epitaphs seldom find the rigors involved in technological advancements fascinating and fun. In short, most of the people heading up companies, governments or organizations that in any way deal with sophisticated technology know that much about what they and those under them are doing. This makes extremely fertile ground for planting seeds of foolish, unrealistic and unfounded conspiracies. And yet, it is not uncommon, especially for our government, to enjoy and somewhat encourage foolish, unrealistic and unfounded conspiracies to flourish because such can provide cover and misdirection for their pet conspiracies.

I have learned from experience that it does not matter how foolish nor destructive it may be to adhere to certain conspiracies – it is often not a matter of logic as it is ego to perpetuate inaccuracies – even if or when someone thinks or believes otherwise.

There is a quaint saying about various possibilities of conspiracies. “Follow the Money!” There are always exceptions, and it does seem to me that “POWER” is a favorite exception for money. In general, if someone is increasing their assess to money or power – especially outside of or in excess of their personal abilities, I am somewhat convinced that they are the example of all that is bad or can be bad involving conspiracies – even if there is some possible benefit or something that should be made known.
I get what you are saying, but when you say: " By definition, if two or more individuals are involved in something (anything) that they do not intend to be generally known", I think your definition it too broad.

The general idea of 'conspiracy' (which essentially means 'breath together), is where two or more people get together in secret to plan some illegal activity or ploy, or some action harmful to others. My other take is that it is tough to separate money from power, per se. Having lots of money automatically gives you the power that money can give.

larsenb
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by larsenb »

Subcomandante wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 11:00 am
Pseudonym wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:53 am I worked for the government (defense department) when I finished college (joint degree in math and physics). I am convinced that our government is chuck full of conspiracies. By definition, if two or more individuals are involved in something (anything) that they do not intend to be generally known – that something is a conspiracy. If someone (or organization) has a competitor – of necessity, there will be things that they will not want their competitor to have unfettered access to. The fact that there are classified projects is absolute proof that there are government conspiracies – lots of them. Many of these classified projects (conspiracies) involved elected officials (including the president or just about anyone involved in any of the many close door committees).

I would also make some observations about technology in society. With extremely rare exceptions, the experts in advanced and cutting-edge technology are also involved in management (oversite) or the editorialization of such technological projects. Those that aspire to control the purse strings, manage people or publish interesting epitaphs seldom find the rigors involved in technological advancements fascinating and fun. In short, most of the people heading up companies, governments or organizations that in any way deal with sophisticated technology know that much about what they and those under them are doing. This makes extremely fertile ground for planting seeds of foolish, unrealistic and unfounded conspiracies. And yet, it is not uncommon, especially for our government, to enjoy and somewhat encourage foolish, unrealistic and unfounded conspiracies to flourish because such can provide cover and misdirection for their pet conspiracies.

I have learned from experience that it does not matter how foolish nor destructive it may be to adhere to certain conspiracies – it is often not a matter of logic as it is ego to perpetuate inaccuracies – even if or when someone thinks or believes otherwise.

There is a quaint saying about various possibilities of conspiracies. “Follow the Money!” There are always exceptions, and it does seem to me that “POWER” is a favorite exception for money. In general, if someone is increasing their assess to money or power – especially outside of or in excess of their personal abilities, I am somewhat convinced that they are the example of all that is bad or can be bad involving conspiracies – even if there is some possible benefit or something that should be made known.
Yep. Something that needs to be mentioned in this forum, that because I don't follow the pet conspiracies that are often mentioned here does not mean that I am part and parcel part of the conspiracy. There ARE conspiracies out there, and the Book of Mormon mentions them. But oftentimes they are NOT the pet conspiracies shown by many here.
Just curious; what are some of the pet conspiracies you see on this forum, that are not actually conspiracies?

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Niemand
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Niemand »

Shawn Henry wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 4:51 pm Have you all really thought the North Star through?

Are you really going to maintain that an explosion resulted in one dominant star in the sky that all other stars rotate around in perfect circles?

On top of that, do you really think there was a star before that one that was in the same spot and all the stars then just happened to rotate perfectly around that one as well?
If you're a platygaean that is precisely what you believe... that it is the hinge of the heavens.

For everyone else though it just happens to be a point above the rotational axis for the north. There are a lot of stars up there. Except if you live in a built up area where light pollution obscures most of them including the Milky Way.

It cannot be seen if you're well south of the equator at all, even though the sky in the south revolves around as well.

larsenb
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by larsenb »

Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:47 pm . . . . Reminder: the question is only, “Where is the curve?”
It's been calculated many different ways; it's been videoed and photographed almost ad nauseam, but above all, you have hundreds of witnesses who have seen it directly, to include U-2 and SR71 pilots, and 3 LDS 'astronauts' (one of these was Senator Jake Garn)

One of the fascinating characteristics of flat-earthers, is their unwillingness to believe these multiple witnesses.

There are 5 LDS'ers who had close connection to the space program, with 3 of them having flown in space orbiting the earth. The three astronauts are: Don Lind, Sen. Jake Garn and Rick Searfoss. Unfortunately Lind died 30 Aug 2022, just a few months ago; Rick Searfoss died September 29, 2018, so you won't be able to collect their testimony about the globe they all traveled around numerous time, but Jake Garn is still here. You need to hunt him down and hear him personally attest to the global earth.

Then you have Dr. James Fletcher and Ron Dittemore, both LDS. Beginning in 1977, Dittemore served as a director on 11 space shuttle missions and deputy assistant director of the Space Station Program. In 1999, he assumed the position of manager of the Space Shuttle Program.

James Fletcher became the Director of NASA in 1971, a position he held from 1971-1977 and later from 1986-1989.

Do you get the point? None of these LDS men are/were stupid. If you were able to interview each of them about their experiences, and tell them they were deluded about the round earth, they would probably smile politely, and then look for ways to escort you off their premises as quickly as possible.
Last edited by larsenb on December 3rd, 2022, 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

h_p wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:45 pm
Is this a trick question or something? You mean like this, right?
Exactly like that! Does that look like an explosion to anyone. Did all those stars explode outward and fall into orbit around the North Star, after, of course, they all fell into orbit around the previous North Star?

larsenb
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by larsenb »

Shawn Henry wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:59 pm
h_p wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:45 pm
Is this a trick question or something? You mean like this, right?
Exactly like that! Does that look like an explosion to anyone. Did all those stars explode outward and fall into orbit around the North Star, after, of course, they all fell into orbit around the previous North Star?
Where on earth (unintended) do you get 'explosion' out of this image?? What you are seeing from higher latitudes of the earth, is simply the movement of the earth around its rotational axis. The stars are simply a relatively fixed background for this activity. They ARE NOT orbiting around the North star.

I'm starting to feel sorrry for you SH.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

larsenb wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:58 pm None of these LDS men are/were stupid.
Stupid, no! Loyal to the masonic brotherhood, yes! How easy would it be with Nasa's budget to scrounge up a few liars, especially when you have been grooming hundreds of them for decades.

Why would we even have to rely on their word? All anyone of them would ever have to do is provide one single recording of the stars from space, but no footage has ever been provided.

Think about it, all you would ever need to shut up all the naysayers is to turn your camera towards the stars and hit record, but none ever has. Why hide that Ace up your sleeve? Play it! End the debate!

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Shawn Henry wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:59 pm Exactly like that! Does that look like an explosion to anyone. Did all those stars explode outward and fall into orbit around the North Star, after, of course, they all fell into orbit around the previous North Star?
Or maybe the earth is a globe that spins on an axis that happens to point in the direction of a minor little star at this time, and all the points of light in the sky are at various distances from earth but since they're so far away they just look like little dots, kind of like how you see a person walking away from you and they get smaller and smaller the further they get from you.

If by explosion, you mean the Big Bang, I don't think that theory is a pre-requisite to believing in a ball-shaped earth.

In fact, I'd even say that a spinning flat earth with a dome over the top of it (or a stationary flat earth with a spinning dome) covered in little pinpoints of light would give you the same effect as this video. The stars don't have to be in orbit around anything, much less Polaris, for this to work.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

larsenb wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:08 pm Where on earth (unintended) do you get 'explosion' out of this image?? What you are seeing from higher latitudes of the earth, is simply the movement of the earth around its rotational axis. The stars are simply a relatively fixed background for this activity. They ARE NOT orbiting around the North star.
I know, they are circling around the North Star right here above our heads. There is far more evidence the Earth is not moving. The explosion was a Big Bang reference, meaning that star pattern would be short lived with all stars moving out in different directions.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

h_p wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:16 pm Or maybe the earth is a globe that spins on an axis that happens to point in the direction of a minor little star at this time, and all the points of light in the sky are at various distances from earth but since they're so far away they just look like little dots, kind of like how you see a person walking away from you and they get smaller and smaller the further they get from you.
The distance can't work. The inverse square law of light wouldn't allow the light to travel that far. Even with the claim that those suns are 1000 times bigger than ours, that's not big enough.

larsenb
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by larsenb »

Shawn Henry wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:12 pm
larsenb wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:58 pm None of these LDS men are/were stupid.
Stupid, no! Loyal to the masonic brotherhood, yes! How easy would it be with Nasa's budget to scrounge up a few liars, especially when you have been grooming hundreds of them for decades.

Why would we even have to rely on their word? All anyone of them would ever have to do is provide one single recording of the stars from space, but no footage has ever been provided.

Think about it, all you would ever need to shut up all the naysayers is to turn your camera towards the stars and hit record, but none ever has. Why hide that Ace up your sleeve? Play it! End the debate!
"Loyal to the masonic brotherhood"?? Any evidence for that? No. You're leading your argument with your premise.

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Shawn Henry wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:23 pm The distance can't work. The inverse square law of light wouldn't allow the light to travel that far. Even with the claim that those suns are 1000 times bigger than ours, that's not big enough.
And yet, somehow, it does. The inverse square law has to do with the number of photons impacting a given area at a given distance), not the distance a single photon can travel before it runs out of batteries and gives up.

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

larsenb wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:58 pm
Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:47 pm . . . . Reminder: the question is only, “Where is the curve?”
It's been calculated many different ways; it's been videoed and photographed almost ad nauseam, but above all, you have hundreds of witnesses who have seen it directly, to include U-2 and SR71 pilots, and 3 LDS 'astronauts' (one of these was Senator Jake Garn)

One of the fascinating characteristics of flat-earthers, is their unwillingness to believe these multiple witnesses.

There are 5 LDS'ers who had close connection to the space program, with 3 of them having flown in space orbiting the earth. The three astronauts are: Don Lind, Sen. Jake Garn and Rick Searfoss. Unfortunately Lind died 30 Aug 2022, just a few months ago; Rick Searfoss died September 29, 2018, so you won't be able to collect their testimony about the globe they all traveled around numerous time, but Jake Garn is still here. You need to hunt him down and hear him personally attest to the global earth.

Then you have Dr. James Fletcher and Ron Dittemore, both LDS. Beginning in 1977, Dittemore served as a director on 11 space shuttle missions and deputy assistant director of the Space Station Program. In 1999, he assumed the position of manager of the Space Shuttle Program.

James Fletcher became the Director of NASA in 1971, a position he held from 1971-1977 and later from 1986-1989.

Do you get the point? None of these LDS men are/were stupid. If you were able to interview each of them about their experiences, and tell them they were deluded about the round earth, they would probably smile politely, and then look for ways to escort you off their premises as quickly as possible.

We want to be so trusting. But, having two family members who worked for the CIA, I understand how even good people will gladly lie for a “righteous cause.” I don’t know what was said to these men, nor what their motives might be, but their membership in the Church is not compelling. Too bad one of them didn’t take a Polaroid camera and get an actual snapshot of the Earth.

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:05 pm We want to be so trusting. But, having two family members who worked for the CIA, I understand how even good people will gladly lie for a “righteous cause.” I don’t know what was said to these men, nor what their motives might be, but their membership in the Church is not compelling. Too bad one of them didn’t take a Polaroid camera and get an actual snapshot of the Earth.
How would a Polaroid picture be more compelling evidence than all the thousands of others that are already out there?

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

h_p wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:07 pm
Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:05 pm We want to be so trusting. But, having two family members who worked for the CIA, I understand how even good people will gladly lie for a “righteous cause.” I don’t know what was said to these men, nor what their motives might be, but their membership in the Church is not compelling. Too bad one of them didn’t take a Polaroid camera and get an actual snapshot of the Earth.
How would a Polaroid picture be more compelling evidence than all the thousands of others that are already out there?
Thousands? Of the ball? That are not photoshopped?

Why doesn’t the Space Station send a live feed of Earth?

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:11 pm Thousands? Of the ball? That are not photoshopped?

Why doesn’t the Space Station send a live feed of Earth?
No, I'm just wondering... say he did bring a Polaroid back, would it change your position?

larsenb
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by larsenb »

Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:05 pm
We want to be so trusting. But, having two family members who worked for the CIA, I understand how even good people will gladly lie for a “righteous cause.” I don’t know what was said to these men, nor what their motives might be, but their membership in the Church is not compelling. Too bad one of them didn’t take a Polaroid camera and get an actual snapshot of the Earth.
Having a trusting nature is a good thing. My credo is that you give respect to people by taking them at their word. You give them the benefit of the doubt.

The CIA is a different animal.

Your thinking that all 5 of these men were in on the grand scheme to protect the global earth is astonishing to me.

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

h_p wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:15 pm
Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:11 pm Thousands? Of the ball? That are not photoshopped?

Why doesn’t the Space Station send a live feed of Earth?
No, I'm just wondering... say he did bring a Polaroid back, would it change your position?
It would be a photograph, for a change.

Why doesn’t the Space Station send us a live feed…of us?

Pseudonym
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Pseudonym »

larsenb wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:59 pm
Pseudonym wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:53 am I worked for the government (defense department) when I finished college (joint degree in math and physics). I am convinced that our government is chuck full of conspiracies. t – that something is a conspiracy. If someone (or organization) has a competitor – of necessity, there will be things that they will not want their competitor to have unfettered access to. The fact that there are classified projects is absolute proof that there are government conspiracies – lots of them. Many of these classified projects (conspiracies) involved elected officials (including the president or just about anyone involved in any of the many close door committees).

I would also make some observations about technology in society. With extremely rare exceptions, the experts in advanced and cutting-edge technology are also involved in management (oversite) or the editorialization of such technological projects. Those that aspire to control the purse strings, manage people or publish interesting epitaphs seldom find the rigors involved in technological advancements fascinating and fun. In short, most of the people heading up companies, governments or organizations that in any way deal with sophisticated technology know that much about what they and those under them are doing. This makes extremely fertile ground for planting seeds of foolish, unrealistic and unfounded conspiracies. And yet, it is not uncommon, especially for our government, to enjoy and somewhat encourage foolish, unrealistic and unfounded conspiracies to flourish because such can provide cover and misdirection for their pet conspiracies.

I have learned from experience that it does not matter how foolish nor destructive it may be to adhere to certain conspiracies – it is often not a matter of logic as it is ego to perpetuate inaccuracies – even if or when someone thinks or believes otherwise.

There is a quaint saying about various possibilities of conspiracies. “Follow the Money!” There are always exceptions, and it does seem to me that “POWER” is a favorite exception for money. In general, if someone is increasing their assess to money or power – especially outside of or in excess of their personal abilities, I am somewhat convinced that they are the example of all that is bad or can be bad involving conspiracies – even if there is some possible benefit or something that should be made known.
I get what you are saying, but when you say: " By definition, if two or more individuals are involved in something (anything) that they do not intend to be generally known", I think your definition it too broad.

The general idea of 'conspiracy' (which essentially means 'breath together), is where two or more people get together in secret to plan some illegal activity or ploy, or some action harmful to others. My other take is that it is tough to separate money from power, per se. Having lots of money automatically gives you the power that money can give.
I sill speak to this with my opinion based in logic as a mathematician. Being deliberately denied necessary and sufficient information needed to draw proper conclusions is harmful to understanding and deciphering the truth. From a religious context – I suggest that without the light of truth it is impossible to exercise “Agency” which (according to LDS theology) was the cause of the division that resulted in The War in Heaven in the pre-mortal existence of the most intelligent and advanced civilization in the universe and the lack of truth is the greatest possible harm that can come to intelligent life forms. ------- Sadly I must admit (my opinion) that the competition of mortality – of necessity – requires the exercise of harm to other life forms (at least to some degree) in order to survive.

It is also my opinion that money is a delusional and counterfeit power. Money is merely a means of exchange which quickly become worthless in exchange for one’s life. There is obviously greater power in that which someone is willing to exchange their life for.

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:28 pm It would be a photograph, for a change.

Why doesn’t the Space Station send us a live feed…of us?
I take it that would be a "no" then. So why bother asking for it? Same for the ISS feed. If they had one, you wouldn't believe it was real anyway, so why ask?

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Subcomandante
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Subcomandante »

Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:11 pm
h_p wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:07 pm
Allison wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:05 pm We want to be so trusting. But, having two family members who worked for the CIA, I understand how even good people will gladly lie for a “righteous cause.” I don’t know what was said to these men, nor what their motives might be, but their membership in the Church is not compelling. Too bad one of them didn’t take a Polaroid camera and get an actual snapshot of the Earth.
How would a Polaroid picture be more compelling evidence than all the thousands of others that are already out there?
Thousands? Of the ball? That are not photoshopped?

Why doesn’t the Space Station send a live feed of Earth?
Like this one?

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BroJones
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by BroJones »

Shawn Henry wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 4:57 pm
BroJones wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:38 am 2 eclipses How in Flat Earth.jpgI see that my question in another (concurrent) thread on this topic has gone Unanswered, sigh.

So I repeat my question here using a screen copy.

Note that my question is based on DATA including personal Observations of both solar and lunar (blood moon) eclipses.
Yeah sure. Something unknown is eclipsing the sun and the moon. How's that for an answer? [snip]
Sorry, the explanation you offer does not lend itself to any scientific test and so is extremely unscientific. Perhaps you were just trying to be funny?

Consider rather the data presented in this video (EXPLAnation using a round earth, around which the moon is orbiting):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J8WGnJdRXI

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