Flat Earth

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BroJones
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by BroJones »

Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 8:57 pm
Fred wrote: December 10th, 2022, 7:06 pm
Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 3:21 pm Here we go Steve, from Pazooka:
Which way is south on this map?
The outer rim.
Worth noting, in light of my question in the immediately preceding post - which I hope both Allison and Shawn will answer!

Here's that question again, for your convenience:
"Anyway, do you agree with the argument in the video that Antarctica "circles" the flat earth and so cannot be circumnavigated? Would appreciate your comment on this - Greg Resee lays down a challenge here!"

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by BeNotDeceived »

nvr wrote: December 11th, 2022, 1:20 am I watch threads like this sliding the forum and diluting it. I hope this isn't your M.O.
Best way to keep threads of interest alive is to engage them before they fall off the Latest post page.

Darn, I just gave my secret away. :?

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

BroJones wrote: December 11th, 2022, 6:56 am
Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 8:57 pm
Fred wrote: December 10th, 2022, 7:06 pm
Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 3:21 pm Here we go Steve, from Pazooka:
Which way is south on this map?
The outer rim.
Worth noting, in light of my question in the immediately preceding post - which I hope both Allison and Shawn will answer!

Here's that question again, for your convenience:
"Anyway, do you agree with the argument in the video that Antarctica "circles" the flat earth and so cannot be circumnavigated? Would appreciate your comment on this - Greg Resee lays down a challenge here!"
I know you want to pin us down to one model so you can dig into something. But how could we know for sure? I would love to explore different possibilities and rule out any that don’t hold water, but in this environment, it becomes either/or. Either this or that model is unassailable, or the Blue Marble is true.

I post these videos as a collection of possible scenarios to consider that there may very well be other possibilities beyond the constantly revised geocentric ball dogma. But you want to frame the debate that way, to avoid having to demonstrate an actual curve.

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BroJones
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by BroJones »

Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 7:09 am
BroJones wrote: December 11th, 2022, 6:56 am
Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 8:57 pm
Fred wrote: December 10th, 2022, 7:06 pm

Which way is south on this map?
The outer rim.
Worth noting, in light of my question in the immediately preceding post - which I hope both Allison and Shawn will answer!

Here's that question again, for your convenience:
"Anyway, do you agree with the argument in the video that Antarctica "circles" the flat earth and so cannot be circumnavigated? Would appreciate your comment on this - Greg Resee lays down a challenge here!"
I know you want to pin us down to one model so you can dig into something. But how could we know for sure? I would love to explore different possibilities and rule out any that don’t hold water, but in this environment, it becomes either/or. Either this or that model is unassailable, or the Blue Marble is true.

I post these videos as a collection of possible scenarios to consider that there may very well be other possibilities beyond the constantly revised geocentric ball dogma. But you want to frame the debate that way, to avoid having to demonstrate an actual curve.
So I take it you decline to answer my question... Interesting !!

" But you want to frame the debate that way, to avoid having to demonstrate an actual curve." -- That is NOT what I want at all!! Please don't sour the discussion by "reading my mind"!

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CaptainM
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by CaptainM »

Highly recommended…

https://youtu.be/JKdRtRr3O-I

In Christ. Best wishes

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BroJones
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by BroJones »

CaptainM wrote: December 11th, 2022, 8:02 am Highly recommended…

https://youtu.be/JKdRtRr3O-I

In Christ. Best wishes
I started it, but that video is nearly FIVE HOURS long!
Can you summarize, pls? Looks like his "proof" is based on the Bible - is that right?

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

BroJones wrote: December 11th, 2022, 7:13 am
Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 7:09 am
BroJones wrote: December 11th, 2022, 6:56 am
Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 8:57 pm

The outer rim.
Worth noting, in light of my question in the immediately preceding post - which I hope both Allison and Shawn will answer!

Here's that question again, for your convenience:
"Anyway, do you agree with the argument in the video that Antarctica "circles" the flat earth and so cannot be circumnavigated? Would appreciate your comment on this - Greg Resee lays down a challenge here!"
I know you want to pin us down to one model so you can dig into something. But how could we know for sure? I would love to explore different possibilities and rule out any that don’t hold water, but in this environment, it becomes either/or. Either this or that model is unassailable, or the Blue Marble is true.

I post these videos as a collection of possible scenarios to consider that there may very well be other possibilities beyond the constantly revised geocentric ball dogma. But you want to frame the debate that way, to avoid having to demonstrate an actual curve.
So I take it you decline to answer my question... Interesting !!

" But you want to frame the debate that way, to avoid having to demonstrate an actual curve." -- That is NOT what I want at all!! Please don't sour the discussion by "reading my mind"!

Can we agree that you are trying to get us to commit to a model? Isn’t that what your question is about?

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Niemand
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Niemand »

Subcomandante wrote: December 10th, 2022, 10:45 pm
Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 6:04 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 10th, 2022, 5:55 pm
Allison wrote: December 10th, 2022, 5:44 pm

You are right, whoever said people are not allowed there obviously overgeneralized. Private citizens are not allowed to explore, and there are several incidents where people have tried to and were stopped. Okay, there is a military village on the peninsula and no doubt other military bases. Can you provide any information leading to explorers actually exploring the place?
Who stops them?
The military. I should look for some video reports about this. But first, will post one about the Southern Cross.
The military would not waste an entire garrison trying to stop people from penetrating the continent interior. The catabatic winds and minus 100 degree windchills do MORE than enough for that to happen.

There have been many expeditions to the South Pole. There is even a station at the South Pole manned by Americans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ3_gZ3ZS_4
Yes, as I said earlier. Antarctica is brutal. That's why it's defied attempts to colonise it properly outwith a few places nearby such as Tierra del Fuego, the Falklands, South Georgia (for a while) and the bottom of New Zealand.

For what it's worth the far north defies colonisation too. Most of Iceland, Greenland, the far north of Canada, Alaska and Russia is uninhabited.

I've watched a few videos on a city up in the north of Russia called Norilsk. Norilsk's climate is milder than Antarctica's (some small trees grow there) but is still a hellish place. (Video under 2 mins)
Some people say Antarctica has some ruins in it of ancient cities etc. I'm not convinced by that, but it never had a native population even though Maori and possibly Tierra del Fuegans reached there (one way trip for the latter.)

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CaptainM
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by CaptainM »

BroJones wrote: December 11th, 2022, 8:10 am
CaptainM wrote: December 11th, 2022, 8:02 am Highly recommended…

https://youtu.be/JKdRtRr3O-I

In Christ. Best wishes
I started it, but that video is nearly FIVE HOURS long!
Can you summarize, pls? Looks like his "proof" is based on the Bible - is that right?
I agree. It is a long listen. What was done was a read of the $30 book on Amazon. The Bible is a major source of information within the book, but also the book reveals how and where the globe concept came from. The Kindle version is available on Amazon for a reasonable cost which is what I have.

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NeveR
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by NeveR »

I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?


If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 10:32 am I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?


If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

I’m sorry, but we keep telling you that we are not there yet. That fact does not prove curvature, though. I’ve heard some plausible-sounding hypotheses, but have no idea which, if any, are the answer.

It does sound fun though, to start with a reasonable model and try to poke holes in it, to see if it should be modified or discarded…and keep going through that process to see what emerges from lots of testing and trials.

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NeveR
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by NeveR »

Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 11:33 am
NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 10:32 am I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?


If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

I’m sorry, but we keep telling you that we are not there yet. That fact does not prove curvature, though. I’ve heard some plausible-sounding hypotheses, but have no idea which, if any, are the answer.

It does sound fun though, to start with a reasonable model and try to poke holes in it, to see if it should be modified or discarded…and keep going through that process to see what emerges from lots of testing and trials.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Before you can advance a theory and expect to have it taken seriously you need to produce a coherent model that conforms to all observations.

If that point hasn't been reached then there is no flat earth theory, just a series of incoherent claims with no observational framework to support them.

Why would anyone favor this over the coherent, observationally supported globe model?

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Pazooka
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Pazooka »

NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:34 pm
Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 11:33 am
NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 10:32 am I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?


If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

I’m sorry, but we keep telling you that we are not there yet. That fact does not prove curvature, though. I’ve heard some plausible-sounding hypotheses, but have no idea which, if any, are the answer.

It does sound fun though, to start with a reasonable model and try to poke holes in it, to see if it should be modified or discarded…and keep going through that process to see what emerges from lots of testing and trials.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Before you can advance a theory and expect to have it taken seriously you need to produce a coherent model that conforms to all observations.

If that point hasn't been reached then there is no flat earth theory, just a series of incoherent claims with no observational framework to support them.

Why would anyone favor this over the coherent, observationally supported globe model?
This is ancient Hebrew cosmology, not a theory.

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NeveR
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by NeveR »

Pazooka wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:52 pm
NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:34 pm
Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 11:33 am
NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 10:32 am I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?


If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

I’m sorry, but we keep telling you that we are not there yet. That fact does not prove curvature, though. I’ve heard some plausible-sounding hypotheses, but have no idea which, if any, are the answer.

It does sound fun though, to start with a reasonable model and try to poke holes in it, to see if it should be modified or discarded…and keep going through that process to see what emerges from lots of testing and trials.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Before you can advance a theory and expect to have it taken seriously you need to produce a coherent model that conforms to all observations.

If that point hasn't been reached then there is no flat earth theory, just a series of incoherent claims with no observational framework to support them.

Why would anyone favor this over the coherent, observationally supported globe model?
This is ancient Hebrew cosmology, not a theory.
And?

Makes no difference what the original source is, if there's no attempt at a coherent model to explain how the system works together to produce all the effects we observe - there's nothing there to evaluate or to be taken seriously.

You don't even have a ballpark figure for how big the sun is! Or how far away it is! Let alone any model for the wider universe (other than it has a lot of water in it apparently!).

Seriously - how can anyone debate a concept as threadbare as this?

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BroJones
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by BroJones »

NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:34 pm
Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 11:33 am
NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 10:32 am I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?


If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

I’m sorry, but we keep telling you that we are not there yet. That fact does not prove curvature, though. I’ve heard some plausible-sounding hypotheses, but have no idea which, if any, are the answer.

It does sound fun though, to start with a reasonable model and try to poke holes in it, to see if it should be modified or discarded…and keep going through that process to see what emerges from lots of testing and trials.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Before you can advance a theory and expect to have it taken seriously you need to produce a coherent model that conforms to all observations.

If that point hasn't been reached then there is no flat earth theory, just a series of incoherent claims with no observational framework to support them.

Why would anyone favor this over the coherent, observationally supported globe model?
Well said NeveR!

Allison, It seems you are mostly opposed to the Round Earth ball modell without having a coherent flat Earth model. Is that right?

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

BroJones wrote: December 11th, 2022, 6:53 am Anyway, do you agree with the argument in the video that Antarctica "circles" the flat earth and so cannot be circumnavigated? Would appreciate your comment on this - Greg Resee lays down a challenge here!
Yes, I would agree.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:34 pm Sorry, but that's nonsense. Before you can advance a theory and expect to have it taken seriously you need to produce a coherent model that conforms to all observations.

If that point hasn't been reached then there is no flat earth theory, just a series of incoherent claims with no observational framework to support them.

Why would anyone favor this over the coherent, observationally supported globe model?
Which your side has not done. The heliocentric model is chalked so full of holes it is laughable.

The entire reason people look at this idea of a flat earth is because there is no current model that isn't easily shredded. Just because so many are so easily deceived by the High Priests of the Heliocentric religion and their pathetic answers, doesn't mean they give legitimate answers. It just means they are gullible.

If the earth were the sphere it is said to be, you would only be able to see just a few miles before you couldn't see beyond the curve, yet we can see for hundreds of miles. This is straight impossible and completely disproves a sphere earth.

If you are maintaining there has to be a theory, then fix all the holes in yours first.

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Pazooka
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Pazooka »

NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 1:00 pm
Pazooka wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:52 pm
NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:34 pm
Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 11:33 am


I’m sorry, but we keep telling you that we are not there yet. That fact does not prove curvature, though. I’ve heard some plausible-sounding hypotheses, but have no idea which, if any, are the answer.

It does sound fun though, to start with a reasonable model and try to poke holes in it, to see if it should be modified or discarded…and keep going through that process to see what emerges from lots of testing and trials.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Before you can advance a theory and expect to have it taken seriously you need to produce a coherent model that conforms to all observations.

If that point hasn't been reached then there is no flat earth theory, just a series of incoherent claims with no observational framework to support them.

Why would anyone favor this over the coherent, observationally supported globe model?
This is ancient Hebrew cosmology, not a theory.
And?

Makes no difference what the original source is, if there's no attempt at a coherent model to explain how the system works together to produce all the effects we observe - there's nothing there to evaluate or to be taken seriously.

You don't even have a ballpark figure for how big the sun is! Or how far away it is! Let alone any model for the wider universe (other than it has a lot of water in it apparently!).

Seriously - how can anyone debate a concept as threadbare as this?
Enoch was taken up among the angels, and there he learned the hidden things, the matters within the veil that were known only to the high priests (Num.18.7). Since this was the place of the throne, he was learning the secret things of the Kingdom: how the Kingdom, Day One, was divided, and how the actions of men were weighed in a balance (1 Enoch 41.1). He saw all parts of the creation moving in their appointed ways, ‘keeping faith with each other in accordance with the oath, i.e. covenant, that they observe’ (1 Enoch 41.5). ~ Margaret Barker, The Lord is One

There are high priests in both the Church of the Lamb and the Great and Abominable Church. They both claim to have special knowledge about the heavens that the layman cannot possibly confirm for themselves. You either have to take Enoch, Isaiah and Ezekiel’s word for it or you have to take Buzz, Alan’s and Yuri’s word for it, *IMO*

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 12:34 pm
Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 11:33 am
NeveR wrote: December 11th, 2022, 10:32 am I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?


If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

I’m sorry, but we keep telling you that we are not there yet. That fact does not prove curvature, though. I’ve heard some plausible-sounding hypotheses, but have no idea which, if any, are the answer.

It does sound fun though, to start with a reasonable model and try to poke holes in it, to see if it should be modified or discarded…and keep going through that process to see what emerges from lots of testing and trials.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Before you can advance a theory and expect to have it taken seriously you need to produce a coherent model that conforms to all observations.

If that point hasn't been reached then there is no flat earth theory, just a series of incoherent claims with no observational framework to support them.

Why would anyone favor this over the coherent, observationally supported globe model?


Maybe you missed the parts in this very thread where I clarified that our theory is the Lack of Curvature Theory, and it’s provable.

Nobody wants to talk about that pesky little aspect. Wonder why?

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 2:48 pm Nobody wants to talk about that pesky little aspect. Wonder why?
Because our upbringing has conditioned us to avoid the elephant in the room, lol.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Shawn Henry »

Besides, why focus on one aspect when it alone would completely unravel your paradigm and destroy decades of emotional investiture?

Steve, himself, won't even touch this Physics 101 problem.

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

It’s worth asking our Ball believer friends, if the earth were actually flat, would you want to know? Please be honest.

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 3:51 pm It’s worth asking our Ball believer friends, if the earth were actually flat, would you want to know? Please be honest.
100%

Allison
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by Allison »

h_p wrote: December 11th, 2022, 3:53 pm
Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 3:51 pm It’s worth asking our Ball believer friends, if the earth were actually flat, would you want to know? Please be honest.
100%
My admiration for you grows every day! I believe you.

Not all feel that way, because there is still a price to pay.

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h_p
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Re: Flat Earth

Post by h_p »

Allison wrote: December 11th, 2022, 4:03 pm My admiration for you grows every day! I believe you.

Not all feel that way, because there is still a price to pay.
Truth is worth any price. And it's a straightforward question, really. Any person who considers himself a scientist, and anybody else who claims to want to know truth should be able to easily answer yes to something like that.

And after these last few years, I'm really in no position to say I know anything for sure anymore.

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