Flat Earth

[Allison]

Allison wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:51 pm
It’s worth asking our Ball believer friends, if the earth were actually flat, would you want to know? Please be honest.

1- First, I ask, what do you mean by "actually flat"?

2- Second, I ask, what REPEATABLE experiments does one perform to find out that the earth is actually flat? Note that the key to true science is Repeatability - a one-off experiment means essentially nothing.

Then, with those two answers from you, then I would say - YES - absolutely, I would want to explore those experiments myself - in order to know!! So, YES, I would want to know! Absolutely!

That’s pretty exciting, actually.

1. Not a ball. Or at very least not the size of ball that we’ve been told. Much, much, much larger.

2. The water experiments seem most consistent and “easy” to perform. But if you want to sink your teeth into something else, all of the Edward Hendrie proofs (that I’ve heard so far) seem repeatable enough. I’ll be listening to more of that book while Christmas wrapping today.

!. "1. Not a ball. Or at very least not the size of ball that we’ve been told. Much, much, much larger. " So, you allow for some earth-curvature when you said "actually flat"? sounds like it.

2. Please provide link for Hendrie, would you? no time to search atm

1. I think so. If the Earth were, say, 25 to 100 times bigger than we are told, we would experience it as basically flat, wouldn’t we? By the parameters of the water experiments, right? So we wouldn’t want to rule that out.

2. Here is Hendrie. I am 4 hours into it. He leaves no stone unturned.

[Allison]

Allison wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:51 pm
It’s worth asking our Ball believer friends, if the earth were actually flat, would you want to know? Please be honest.

1- First, I ask, what do you mean by "actually flat"?

2- Second, I ask, what REPEATABLE experiments does one perform to find out that the earth is actually flat? Note that the key to true science is Repeatability - a one-off experiment means essentially nothing.

Then, with those two answers from you, then I would say - YES - absolutely, I would want to explore those experiments myself - in order to know!! So, YES, I would want to know! Absolutely!

That’s pretty exciting, actually.

1. Not a ball. Or at very least not the size of ball that we’ve been told. Much, much, much larger.
...

Wait, so you would allow for the earth to be a ball but a "much, much larger" ball than we've been told?

Yes, but that seems so unlikely. It turns out a lot of places are literally flatter than a pancake. But even the curve of a pancake could eventually amount to a huge, huge ball, right? Trying to keep an open mind.

[Niemand]

What you claim I said:

"attributing the most nutty ideas about gravity to all of us."

What I actually said:

"Yet that's what many platygaeans subscribe to."

Many and all are not the same thing. "Many people took the Covid shots" does not mean the same as "every single person took the Covid shots". "Many" doesn't even necessarily refer to a majority.

Yes, I have seen the claim about the Earth rushing upwards on a number of occasions. It is not unique to one person as an idea. Doesn't mean that every platygaean subscribes to it, but some do.

Regarding Antarctica, Subcom asserts that explorers go there all the time, and that some traverse the continent. There have been a couple of expeditions go there for the purpose of crossing and were forced to leave. They were experienced and prepared to deal with the conditions there, or face the natural consequences, but were not allowed to even try. The expeditions I’ve seen so far only resemble a bite mark out of a big cookie, but whatever. The public absolutely does not have unfettered access.

People don't usually go to most of Death Valley either, and for similar reasons... they need food, water, shelter from the elements and a means to get in and out of those areas, or to get help if someone gets injured. Death Valley is a lot more hospitable than Antarctica in some respects.

[Shawn Henry]

So, in four thousand years, no one has been able to come up with a theory about how all of this remotely makes sense, except for some powerful institutions telling people to believe it or face the Inquisition or face ostracision.

Four thousand years? This is their version of history that you so gullibly soak up. We have many eyewitness accounts that schools were teaching flat earth in the early 1900's.

If you've had so much time to come up with a model, why is it easily disproven with just mere observation. Your model and size of the earth have been shown to be wrong. Tell me why we can see for hundreds of miles when we shouldn't even see someone's house 5 miles away. Your missing curvature can be found in your logic.

[Shawn Henry]

I'm still waiting to see a coherent integrated model of flat earth so we can understand how it all fits together.

What are the dimensions of flat earth?

What are the dimensions of the Moon and Sun?

What do these two bodies consist of?

What forces maintain their position?

How far away are the stars, what are their dimensions and what do they consist of?

What if anything lies beyond them?

If we could get some specifics going it might help the dumbest of us (well, me) get a fix on things.

I just found something very fascinating, I'll post what I found below and let everyone make up their own minds. This map looks way different than any flat earth model I've seen yet and may explain a few problems with the current model. Still not convinced one way or another keeping an open mind for now.

Here is an image I found:



I learned about this on this video playing it double speed. The part where it talks about where this map was discovered is mind-blowing. That part of the video starts at about 3hr 42 minutes (03:42). The video goes on to explain that at some time in the distant past, the moon captured a map of our entire world (including the firmament) and is much larger than we are being told. The video goes into a lot of detail and shows that current flat earthers are working with a flawed map, which is why their model doesn't work.

Here's the video, you can start it at around 3:42

That was an awesome video, thanks. I only had time for an hour, but maybe tomorrow.

[Shawn Henry]

We have seen the following claims:
* The Earth is rushing upwards which creates the gravitational effect.

You should be banned from all social media for making such an ignorant strawman.

[Niemand]

We have seen the following claims:
* The Earth is rushing upwards which creates the gravitational effect.

You should be banned from all social media for making such an ignorant strawman.

First off, that is not actually a "strawman" (which seems to be the only logical fallacy most normies have heard of.) You don't appear to know the definition of "ignorant" either.

Secondly, I didn't come up with it. I've seen it referred to on a number of occasions, which is why I mentioned it. I couldn't come up with such a notion.

Thirdly, you've been quite happy to make much more abusive comments about those who disagree with you on this idea.

Fourthly, social media is poisonous prolefeed. It would be an honour to be banned from all of it.

Nice going!

[BeNotDeceived]

We have seen the following claims:
* The Earth is rushing upwards which creates the gravitational effect.

You should be banned from all social media for making such an ignorant strawman.

Gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration within an inertial frame of reference.

[Allison]

What you claim I said:

"attributing the most nutty ideas about gravity to all of us."

What I actually said:

"Yet that's what many platygaeans subscribe to."

Many and all are not the same thing. "Many people took the Covid shots" does not mean the same as "every single person took the Covid shots". "Many" doesn't even necessarily refer to a majority.

Yes, I have seen the claim about the Earth rushing upwards on a number of occasions. It is not unique to one person as an idea. Doesn't mean that every platygaean subscribes to it, but some do.

Regarding Antarctica, Subcom asserts that explorers go there all the time, and that some traverse the continent. There have been a couple of expeditions go there for the purpose of crossing and were forced to leave. They were experienced and prepared to deal with the conditions there, or face the natural consequences, but were not allowed to even try. The expeditions I’ve seen so far only resemble a bite mark out of a big cookie, but whatever. The public absolutely does not have unfettered access.

People don't usually go to most of Death Valley either, and for similar reasons... they need food, water, shelter from the elements and a means to get in and out of those areas, or to get help if someone gets injured. Death Valley is a lot more hospitable than Antarctica in some respects.

You will recall that I did acknowledge that you did not literally attribute that nutty theory to all of us.

And it’s not a matter of explorers not wanting to traverse Antarctica; they are not allowed to, and have only extremely restricted access.

[Fred]

We have seen the following claims:
* The Earth is rushing upwards which creates the gravitational effect.

You should be banned from all social media for making such an ignorant strawman.

Oh, please.
Democrats believe in dismembering children while still alive, and you haven't called for them to be banned from social media.

[Allison]

We have seen the following claims:
* The Earth is rushing upwards which creates the gravitational effect.

You should be banned from all social media for making such an ignorant strawman.

Oh, please.
Democrats believe in dismembering children while still alive, and you haven't called for them to be banned from social media.

Aw come on! We gotta have some fun sometimes, don’t we? Maybe we should use emojis a little more so we can tell when someone is just ribbing another person.

[BeNotDeceived]

We have seen the following claims:
* The Earth is rushing upwards which creates the gravitational effect.

You should be banned from all social media for making such an ignorant strawman.

Oh, please.
Democrats believe in dismembering children while still alive, and you haven't called for them to be banned from social media.

Aw come on! We gotta have some fun sometimes, don’t we? Maybe we should use emojis a little more so we can tell when someone is just ribbing another person.

Sometimes it's fun to leave off emojis

And keep 'em guessing.

[Cruiserdude]

You should be banned from all social media for making such an ignorant strawman.

Oh, please.
Democrats believe in dismembering children while still alive, and you haven't called for them to be banned from social media.

Aw come on! We gotta have some fun sometimes, don’t we? Maybe we should use emojis a little more so we can tell when someone is just ribbing another person.

Sometimes it's fun to leave off emojis

And keep 'em guessing.

That sounds like fun

[Subcomandante]

What you claim I said:

"attributing the most nutty ideas about gravity to all of us."

What I actually said:

"Yet that's what many platygaeans subscribe to."

Many and all are not the same thing. "Many people took the Covid shots" does not mean the same as "every single person took the Covid shots". "Many" doesn't even necessarily refer to a majority.

Yes, I have seen the claim about the Earth rushing upwards on a number of occasions. It is not unique to one person as an idea. Doesn't mean that every platygaean subscribes to it, but some do.

Regarding Antarctica, Subcom asserts that explorers go there all the time, and that some traverse the continent. There have been a couple of expeditions go there for the purpose of crossing and were forced to leave. They were experienced and prepared to deal with the conditions there, or face the natural consequences, but were not allowed to even try. The expeditions I’ve seen so far only resemble a bite mark out of a big cookie, but whatever. The public absolutely does not have unfettered access.

People don't usually go to most of Death Valley either, and for similar reasons... they need food, water, shelter from the elements and a means to get in and out of those areas, or to get help if someone gets injured. Death Valley is a lot more hospitable than Antarctica in some respects.

You will recall that I did acknowledge that you did not literally attribute that nutty theory to all of us.

And it’s not a matter of explorers not wanting to traverse Antarctica; they are not allowed to, and have only extremely restricted access.

Repeating a big lie over and over again doesn't make a lie a truth.

[Allison]

What you claim I said:

"attributing the most nutty ideas about gravity to all of us."

What I actually said:

"Yet that's what many platygaeans subscribe to."

Many and all are not the same thing. "Many people took the Covid shots" does not mean the same as "every single person took the Covid shots". "Many" doesn't even necessarily refer to a majority.

Yes, I have seen the claim about the Earth rushing upwards on a number of occasions. It is not unique to one person as an idea. Doesn't mean that every platygaean subscribes to it, but some do.

Regarding Antarctica, Subcom asserts that explorers go there all the time, and that some traverse the continent. There have been a couple of expeditions go there for the purpose of crossing and were forced to leave. They were experienced and prepared to deal with the conditions there, or face the natural consequences, but were not allowed to even try. The expeditions I’ve seen so far only resemble a bite mark out of a big cookie, but whatever. The public absolutely does not have unfettered access.

People don't usually go to most of Death Valley either, and for similar reasons... they need food, water, shelter from the elements and a means to get in and out of those areas, or to get help if someone gets injured. Death Valley is a lot more hospitable than Antarctica in some respects.

You will recall that I did acknowledge that you did not literally attribute that nutty theory to all of us.

And it’s not a matter of explorers not wanting to traverse Antarctica; they are not allowed to, and have only extremely restricted access.

Repeating a big lie over and over again doesn't make a lie a truth.

Whatever, bruh. The place isn’t crawling with people who get to go wherever they want, Wikipedia notwithstanding. And doing little incursions and then right back out again just doesn’t count for what we are talking about.

[Shawn Henry]

First off, that is not actually a "strawman" (which seems to be the only logical fallacy most normies have heard of.) You don't appear to know the definition of "ignorant" either.

Secondly, I didn't come up with it. I've seen it referred to on a number of occasions, which is why I mentioned it. I couldn't come up with such a notion.

Thirdly, you've been quite happy to make much more abusive comments about those who disagree with you on this idea.

Fourthly, social media is poisonous prolefeed. It would be an honour to be banned from all of it.

Nice going!

Ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Nailed it!

Straw man: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument:

Nailed it!

The earth moving upward has been put out by the Flat Earth society for decades. When Flat Earth started to first grow at the end of 2014, anybody of any consequence in the startup movement called out the Flat Earth Society as controlled opposition, whether CIA ran or not, who knows. Every significant member of Flat Earth has called them out from the beginning and there has been unanimity among everyone. Sure, there might be some shills who try to claim it, but they have been quickly called out and denounced by everyone.

You may not have known you have set up a straw man, but you did. Forgive me for venting, but this hasn't been an issue since 2015. I don't actually want you banned from anything, you just pushed a button.

[Shawn Henry]

Gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration within an inertial frame of reference.

That doesn't mean anyone believes we are moving upward.

Is gravity "indistinguishable" when it is pulling you in many different directions at the same. It pulls you to the earth, it pulls you around the sun in an inconsistent elliptical, it pulls you around the milky way, it pulls you around the galactic center, all while you are traveling ever outward. That's at least 5 different directions and we feel jack.

[Shawn Henry]

Oh, please.
Democrats believe in dismembering children while still alive, and you haven't called for them to be banned from social media.

You can see in my above reply that I extended the Olive branch. I love the two of you, despite you both frustrating me at times, lol.

[Shawn Henry]

what REPEATABLE experiments does one perform to find out that the earth is actually flat? Note that the key to true science is Repeatability - a one-off experiment means essentially nothing.

The same ones that got the movement all its adherents.

1. Laser tests.

2. Long distance sight records.

[Niemand]

First off, that is not actually a "strawman" (which seems to be the only logical fallacy most normies have heard of.) You don't appear to know the definition of "ignorant" either.

Secondly, I didn't come up with it. I've seen it referred to on a number of occasions, which is why I mentioned it. I couldn't come up with such a notion.

Thirdly, you've been quite happy to make much more abusive comments about those who disagree with you on this idea.

Fourthly, social media is poisonous prolefeed. It would be an honour to be banned from all of it.

Nice going!

Ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Nailed it!

Straw man: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument:

Nailed it!

The earth moving upward has been put out by the Flat Earth society for decades. When Flat Earth started to first grow at the end of 2014, anybody of any consequence in the startup movement called out the Flat Earth Society as controlled opposition, whether CIA ran or not, who knows. Every significant member of Flat Earth has called them out from the beginning and there has been unanimity among everyone. Sure, there might be some shills who try to claim it, but they have been quickly called out and denounced by everyone.

You may not have known you have set up a straw man, but you did. Forgive me for venting, but this hasn't been an issue since 2015. I don't actually want you banned from anything, you just pushed a button.

So you can dole it out but can't take it. The only thing you've nailed is your own ego.

That doesn't mean anyone believes we are moving upward.

Like Allison you are locked into that everybody-or-nobody binary. She can't distinguish between the words "many" and "all" and you can't distinguish
between "anyone" and "no one". Yes, a few people do believe this. You may not, but it's not just about you. Maybe you should attend to that kind of thing before peeking into the realm of logical fallacies.

Flat Earth Theory itself is very obviously the main psyop these days. It may have been invented long ago, but its massive promotion and visibility over the last decade or so is not a coincidence. Look at how this thread and others have taken over this forum. I wanted to limit my time on this subject but now seem to be spending more time on it than the other subjects on this forum.... you know little matters like Jesus Christ, political shenanigans and so on. Mission accomplished... the idea's burrowed its way in here and is squeezing out useful threads.

On supposed "strawmen"... Urban Dictionary gets it:

[Niemand]

What you claim I said:

"attributing the most nutty ideas about gravity to all of us."

What I actually said:

"Yet that's what many platygaeans subscribe to."

Many and all are not the same thing. "Many people took the Covid shots" does not mean the same as "every single person took the Covid shots". "Many" doesn't even necessarily refer to a majority.

Yes, I have seen the claim about the Earth rushing upwards on a number of occasions. It is not unique to one person as an idea. Doesn't mean that every platygaean subscribes to it, but some do.

Regarding Antarctica, Subcom asserts that explorers go there all the time, and that some traverse the continent. There have been a couple of expeditions go there for the purpose of crossing and were forced to leave. They were experienced and prepared to deal with the conditions there, or face the natural consequences, but were not allowed to even try. The expeditions I’ve seen so far only resemble a bite mark out of a big cookie, but whatever. The public absolutely does not have unfettered access.

People don't usually go to most of Death Valley either, and for similar reasons... they need food, water, shelter from the elements and a means to get in and out of those areas, or to get help if someone gets injured. Death Valley is a lot more hospitable than Antarctica in some respects.

You will recall that I did acknowledge that you did not literally attribute that nutty theory to all of us.

And it’s not a matter of explorers not wanting to traverse Antarctica; they are not allowed to, and have only extremely restricted access.

Now we've shifted the goalposts from getting to Antarctica to crossing it.

Traversing a hostile, barren wasteland of any significant size is not for the faint-hearted. Antarctica has very few landing places due to the ice, very few rivers, no food sources in the interior except a few lichens so on and so on. The only thing it has in large quantities is breathable air.

That requires major supplies and hardiness. It's even a harsh environment for huskies.

Not many people traverse the Sahara from east to west either, but that doesn't mean there's a unified system to keep people from doing it.

I'm sure there's a misogynist joke about women who can't distinguish between "many" and "all" but let's not go there...

[BeNotDeceived]

Gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration within an inertial frame of reference.

That doesn't mean anyone believes we are moving upward.

Is gravity "indistinguishable" when it is pulling you in many different directions at the same. It pulls you to the earth, it pulls you around the sun in an inconsistent elliptical, it pulls you around the milky way, it pulls you around the galactic center, all while you are traveling ever outward. That's at least 5 different directions and we feel jack.

Because you’re standing on terra firm-a or your head is in the clouds.

Not sure witch.

[BroJones]

Allison wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:51 pm
It’s worth asking our Ball believer friends, if the earth were actually flat, would you want to know? Please be honest.

1- First, I ask, what do you mean by "actually flat"?

2- Second, I ask, what REPEATABLE experiments does one perform to find out that the earth is actually flat? Note that the key to true science is Repeatability - a one-off experiment means essentially nothing.

Then, with those two answers from you, then I would say - YES - absolutely, I would want to explore those experiments myself - in order to know!! So, YES, I would want to know! Absolutely!

That’s pretty exciting, actually.

1. Not a ball. Or at very least not the size of ball that we’ve been told. Much, much, much larger.
...

Wait, so you would allow for the earth to be a ball but a "much, much larger" ball than we've been told?

Yes, but that seems so unlikely. It turns out a lot of places are literally flatter than a pancake. But even the curve of a pancake could eventually amount to a huge, huge ball, right? Trying to keep an open mind.

So yes the Earth could be a huge huge ball. That seems pretty close to agreement to me and I'm ready to move on To other perhaps more important topics

Thanks for keeping an open mind!

[Allison]

That’s pretty exciting, actually.

1. Not a ball. Or at very least not the size of ball that we’ve been told. Much, much, much larger.
...

Wait, so you would allow for the earth to be a ball but a "much, much larger" ball than we've been told?

Yes, but that seems so unlikely. It turns out a lot of places are literally flatter than a pancake. But even the curve of a pancake could eventually amount to a huge, huge ball, right? Trying to keep an open mind.

So yes the Earth could be a huge huge ball. That seems pretty close to agreement to me and I'm ready to move on To other perhaps more important topics

Thanks for keeping an open mind!

Oh wow, interesting! So you don’t really want to know? And it’s fine with me to have you drop out, no problem. It just explains so much, and actually makes me believe even more that it really must be flat.

Thanks for your input, Steve.

[anonymous91]

Very interesting verse I recently read in the Book of Mormon,

1 Nephi 12:4

4 And it came to pass that I saw a a mist of b darkness on the face of the land of promise; and I saw lightnings, and I heard thunderings, and earthquakes, and all manner of tumultuous noises; and I saw the earth and the rocks, that they rent; and I saw mountains tumbling into pieces; and I saw the plains of the earth, that they were c broken up; and I saw many cities that they were d sunk; and I saw many that they were burned with fire; and I saw many that did tumble to the earth, because of the quaking thereof.

The part that really caught my attention is where it mentions that many cities were sunk. The video that I recently posted also mentioned cities that were sunk. Interesting to say the least.