When Does One Opt Out?

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mudflap
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by mudflap »

Chris01 wrote: November 28th, 2022, 7:03 pm I love to see what the Utah OSR Land Co-op is doing.

https://osrcommunity.com/utah-co-op/

Moving off grid and joining into a community of like minded folks all at once! I'm jealous there's not something similar out here in the southeast.

Personally, I see the church as God's arm in the long term solution building Zion. When the beast system(social credit score, CBDC) comes online most likely in 2023 it's going to come as a surprise to a lot of people. This timeline will coincide perfectly with Lord proving many of his servants and he will most definitely raise his standard against it.
did you say...."southeast"?

I'm here, Brother!

But anyway, that OSR co-op is neat, but it's super pricey (for me anyway) to get into. no way I could afford that. I do like my little slice of heaven here though - no need to irrigate, pretty mild winters, and all the bugs you could ever hope for to go with it!

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Momma J
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by Momma J »

tmac wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:25 pm
Momma J wrote: November 28th, 2022, 11:17 am
tmac wrote: November 28th, 2022, 6:18 am As someone mentioned elsewhere, it’s not really you they’re after. It’s your children and grandchildren. And they are already experiencing remarkable success at taking their gifts and souls. Some people like to look at the younger generations and think “Saturdays Warriors,” but when I look at those younger generations, that’s not what I’m seeing. I’m seeing a lot more zombies than warriors.
I agree, and I am trying to help in ways that I can. Reaching out to young parents and encouraging them to once again have family prayers, family scripture reading time, family home evenings with service to others. Of the 34 employees in our little company, only 5 still attend any church services with their families. Less than half say that they have family prayers. Only two are still having family home evenings.

We are failing our families!
The very first thing that should be opted-put of is the Public School System. None of the things you have described really stand a chance against the public school system. Anyone who can’t see that is already under the spell and well within their grasp.
Yes, parents need to take the reins and take a more hands-on approach to their children's indoctrination of right and wrong.

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harakim
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by harakim »

mudflap wrote: November 27th, 2022, 5:01 pm IMO, here's how the opting out of Babylon / opting into Zion could happen.

The Zion side of the equation:

1. It will be organic - I think it will happen without direction - at first - from TFP or anyone else. I think this because of the patterns in scripture. Before the Church was even established, folks were having dreams and being guided on what to do and where to go - I believe that is happening now with Zion. Folks are being inspired to detangle themselves from Babylon. I think this is part of what RMN means when he says it will be impossible to survive without the influence of the H.G.

2. The organic part will be spread out at first - pockets of Zion will exist all over the world. The stakes of Zion is a phrase that comes to mind. It may be one person in one household, an entire house, maybe a neighborhood. I doubt it will be at a ward level - that would be pretty amazing to pull off in the time-frame I think we're looking at here (maybe 30+years).

3. These pockets of Zion will have to become self-surviving / self-sufficient. As things get worse and worse in Babylon, these little groups will have to become more independent of "the system" (a.k.a. "the world"). Their own bartering system, their own crops, their own medicine, their own clothes

4. Eventually, the oppression from Babylon will be so great, and yet the faith of the little flocks will also be great, that the little groups will either be miraculously plucked up and transported to the physical / final Zion location in Jackson County, MO, or shown by way of revelation that that is where they need to gather, and they'll get there on their own.

5. Zion cannot be established with debt - there will be no mortgages on houses or lands associated with Zion. Either Zion-hearted folks with generosity and money will buy land with cash and sit on it until the time is right and donate it at that point; or, the land will be wiped clean, and only those with pure hearts will be able to physically get there. With the land uninhabited, they will organize Zion in an orderly fashion - laying out plots of land, farms, roads, storehouses, temples, neighborhoods, schools, etc. I think this last part is where TOMAS comes into play. I don't think TOMAS sets in order the church so much as he sets in order the inheritances in Zion - see D&C 85.

The Babylon side of the equation:
1. Since Satan operates more or less based on "power and control", Babylon will attempt (and succeed for a while) at amassing lots of power and control - over supply lines, the internet, financial systems, military, churches, land, food supplies, health care, education, government - anything he can, or anything he can fake an illusion of having control.

2. Any kind of dissension from "the system" will be seen as a threat by those in charge of the system - there must be compliance in order for Babylon to work - they need lots of "bricks in the wall" (Pink Floyd - look it up). Therefore, they will fight against Zion. They must in order to maintain the illusion of power.

3. Babylon's latest move is deplatforming folks, but eventually, you'll need Babylon's approval to get online, have a job, receive healthcare, buy groceries, have a bank account, get an education, etc., etc. Note that these are all areas that a parallel society (a precursor to Zion) needs to focus on.

4. One major thing the Babylon system won't be able to replicate is peace. Their supposed Utopia will eventually devolve into wars between countries, cities, states, communities, and families. Their promises will be exposed as "empty", and folks will be enraged that they invested so much in trying to make it happen. Like the joggers following Forest Gump through the desert, when the fraud is exposed, they'll angrily say, "now what are we supposed to do?". But at that point, they will also be blind to how to fix it or escape. This is the point, I think, where those with Zion in their hearts (the little organic pockets of Zion) - those who don't want to fight - will have to "flee to Zion", as we are told.

5. In previous versions of "fleeing Babylon", the Saints/Lehites/Nephites/Jews/Noahites/etc. could always find some un-inhabited place they could flee to. Not true for the Christians of Paul's day. While I think eventually a physical and singular place will be prepared ("Zion" / the New Jerusalem), I don't think that happens until almost the end - right before the wars engulf the rest of the world. But since there must eventually be somewhere to flee to, Zion must be physically established at some point prior.

I could be completely wrong. :)
Maybe this is what I was wondering in the thread. Are people committed to Zion? Are people intentionally preparing to escape Babylon when called or are they banking on it not being "too bad" in their lifetime. If the call doesn't come in one's lifetime, at least they made it possible for Zion.

I don't think there will be a call-out. I agree it will start with people preparing for Zion. Without preparation, it can't come. It takes faith to prepare for a scenario when you have no idea how it could come about or if anyone else is even preparing. I also agree with your assessment. Babylon is built on a pyramid of fear and disdain. You fear those above you and you disdain or strike fear into those below you, at least those below you in your own eyes. Zion will be a government built without fear or disdain. I don't know how such a government could withstand the test of time, which requires more faith.
Chris01 wrote: November 28th, 2022, 7:03 pm I love to see what the Utah OSR Land Co-op is doing.

https://osrcommunity.com/utah-co-op/

Moving off grid and joining into a community of like minded folks all at once! I'm jealous there's not something similar out here in the southeast.

Personally, I see the church as God's arm in the long term solution building Zion. When the beast system(social credit score, CBDC) comes online most likely in 2023 it's going to come as a surprise to a lot of people. This timeline will coincide perfectly with Lord proving many of his servants and he will most definitely raise his standard against it.
I used to live in the Southeast and would be open to it again.

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harakim
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by harakim »

tmac wrote: November 26th, 2022, 1:17 pm I have spent the vast majority of my life in rural areas, including some areas held in highest esteem among Mormons (including my parents, which is why we were there).

In my own family, we essentially decided to "opt-out" with a major strategic relocation 20 years ago to a good, production-oriented rural community that we thought was the best fit for our family at the time. At this point, though, now that a variety of circumstances (including our family) have changed, we are contemplating another strategic relocation, and the biggest reason is community.

Over the past 20 years, this area has slowly devolved from its production orientation, and has now become overrun with consumption-oriented neighbors, who we are not excited about having to share our foxhole with with push comes to shove. Some of them have moved here; others still live in their urban and suburban homes hours away (10 hours in one case), and only visit occasionally, but intend to use their properties here as bug-out retreats. I understand their reasoning, and I don't blame them for wanting to have a Plan B. But many of them have no concept of community, and have done little, if anything, to get to know or develop relationships with their neighbors, etc. And, even most of the few remaining farmers and their families (virtually all of whom are “devout” Mormons) are more interested in playing, and taking government subsidies, than they are in working, producing, and trying to be self-sufficient.

Because we have always known that the time might come when we would have to defend ourselves, or property and means of production, including livestock, etc., against intrusive outsiders in search of food, etc., ever since we came here 20 years ago, we've always had a security plan with some fairly strategic elements to it. And I have always been prepared to defend our property with force, as necessary. But, at this point, I'm not all that excited about having to shoot some of our clueless neighbors, who despite acquiring property and/or moving to the country, have done nothing to develop productive skills, and network within the existing community, to develop any kind of strategic plans. I always knew that there were plenty of those kinds of folks around, but once the ratio starts getting up to 80-90%, then I start doing a serious re-take and community re-evaluation.

What I will say is that the mainstream Mormon mindset about all this has completely changed over the course of the last 20 or so years. At this point, mainstream Mormons instill zero faith or confidence in me. It's a sad commentary.
I have had a nebulous idea of a few distinctions to draw about people in the collapse. Production-oriented vs consumption-oriented is a neat tool for looking at what people will do in a collapse, so thanks for that.

I would say that you should never forget to try and train the people you are around. Even if it doesn't help you directly, we need every evangelist we can get in this society. The communities are going from producer to consumer-based because there is not enough teaching of true principles. I had a similar situation where I realized that while I was 100% able to survive on my own, the neighbors added an element of danger I hadn't really considered. We knew them well, but when COVID happened, we became more sure about things we had only suspected. I had made assumptions or had hopes based on what I considered the baseline in society, but I learned it was not the baseline. Since then, I have progressively realized that we need to be teaching or the whole world will be like that.

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tmac
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by tmac »

COVID and other things have provided great opportunities to test people and see what they will do when the chips are really down. Unfortunately, in most case I have been disappointed, which instills increasingly less confidence in me in most people.

I agree that teaching and "training" is a good idea. But people need to be open, receptive, and "seeking" for it to sink in and do much good. Most people just want to be stroked.

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FrankOne
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by FrankOne »

tmac wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:24 pm COVID and other things have provided great opportunities to test people and see what they will do when the chips are really down. Unfortunately, in most case I have been disappointed, which instills increasingly less confidence in me in most people.

I agree that teaching and "training" is a good idea. But people need to be open, receptive, and "seeking" for it to sink in and do much good. Most people just want to be stroked.
Perspective is so diverse. Common sense is hard to convey to someone that is offended by it. I'm only referring to basics, not theoretical "truths". I've lost all motivation to really make a difference in any sphere except my family. I guess I'm worn out..... out of gas with a flat tire. hahahaha. Lucky my vehicle broke down while I was home.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

tmac wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:24 pm COVID and other things have provided great opportunities to test people and see what they will do when the chips are really down. Unfortunately, in most case I have been disappointed, which instills increasingly less confidence in me in most people.

I agree that teaching and "training" is a good idea. But people need to be open, receptive, and "seeking" for it to sink in and do much good. Most people just want to be stroked.
I was also disappointed by many I thought had more moxie. But I was also pleasantly surprised by a few that I had obviously mischaracterized. The silver lining is that we probably know a little better who we might be able to count on when the dealing is done.

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mudflap
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by mudflap »

tmac wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:24 pm COVID and other things have provided great opportunities to test people and see what they will do when the chips are really down. Unfortunately, in most case I have been disappointed, which instills increasingly less confidence in me in most people.

I agree that teaching and "training" is a good idea. But people need to be open, receptive, and "seeking" for it to sink in and do much good. Most people just want to be stroked.
And that, right there, is the entire reason most folks will never opt out. Opting out requires work, study, prayer, and faith. it requires some effort outside of your 9-5.

bottom line: most people are lazy. once they get comfortable in a career, it's RIP (retired in place) until they turn 65.

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harakim
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by harakim »

tmac wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:24 pm COVID and other things have provided great opportunities to test people and see what they will do when the chips are really down. Unfortunately, in most case I have been disappointed, which instills increasingly less confidence in me in most people.
I experienced this too. It seems like this is common for the people in this thread. One thing I noticed is how hard it is to teach anyone over 60.
FrankOne wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:38 pm Perspective is so diverse. Common sense is hard to convey to someone that is offended by it. I'm only referring to basics, not theoretical "truths". I've lost all motivation to really make a difference in any sphere except my family. I guess I'm worn out..... out of gas with a flat tire. hahahaha. Lucky my vehicle broke down while I was home.
It is said that Noah preached for 600 years and didn't convert anyone. Sometimes you have to do the right thing, even if you don't seem to get the right results. I think "endure to the end" means something like that.
tmac wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:24 pm I agree that teaching and "training" is a good idea. But people need to be open, receptive, and "seeking" for it to sink in and do much good. Most people just want to be stroked.
I felt like I had been shouting into the void from about 2011(or maybe earlier) to 2020. Few people listened and some people even stored a little food, only to use it up and not replace it or get rid of it in a move. However, when COVID happened, everything I said had planted the seeds and there are quite a few now awake who were not before. Now they have full gas in their tank. You probably remember when you first starting really waking up - you couldn't talk to people forever.

If you make bold statements, they will stick with people unless they've knowingly committed to the dark side. If you meet people where they're at or even just drop conditional statements like "if X then it would be good to Y", you can feel them out and get them thinking. And I've noticed: once people truly cross over, they don't go back. So once you have made a convert, then he's converted. That's one more for our side. The dark side relies completely on new recruits. They don't make almost any converts. How could you go back?

FoundMyEden
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by FoundMyEden »

harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:46 am
mudflap wrote: November 27th, 2022, 5:01 pm IMO, here's how the opting out of Babylon / opting into Zion could happen.

The Zion side of the equation:

1. It will be organic - I think it will happen without direction - at first - from TFP or anyone else. I think this because of the patterns in scripture. Before the Church was even established, folks were having dreams and being guided on what to do and where to go - I believe that is happening now with Zion. Folks are being inspired to detangle themselves from Babylon. I think this is part of what RMN means when he says it will be impossible to survive without the influence of the H.G.

2. The organic part will be spread out at first - pockets of Zion will exist all over the world. The stakes of Zion is a phrase that comes to mind. It may be one person in one household, an entire house, maybe a neighborhood. I doubt it will be at a ward level - that would be pretty amazing to pull off in the time-frame I think we're looking at here (maybe 30+years).

3. These pockets of Zion will have to become self-surviving / self-sufficient. As things get worse and worse in Babylon, these little groups will have to become more independent of "the system" (a.k.a. "the world"). Their own bartering system, their own crops, their own medicine, their own clothes

4. Eventually, the oppression from Babylon will be so great, and yet the faith of the little flocks will also be great, that the little groups will either be miraculously plucked up and transported to the physical / final Zion location in Jackson County, MO, or shown by way of revelation that that is where they need to gather, and they'll get there on their own.

5. Zion cannot be established with debt - there will be no mortgages on houses or lands associated with Zion. Either Zion-hearted folks with generosity and money will buy land with cash and sit on it until the time is right and donate it at that point; or, the land will be wiped clean, and only those with pure hearts will be able to physically get there. With the land uninhabited, they will organize Zion in an orderly fashion - laying out plots of land, farms, roads, storehouses, temples, neighborhoods, schools, etc. I think this last part is where TOMAS comes into play. I don't think TOMAS sets in order the church so much as he sets in order the inheritances in Zion - see D&C 85.

The Babylon side of the equation:
1. Since Satan operates more or less based on "power and control", Babylon will attempt (and succeed for a while) at amassing lots of power and control - over supply lines, the internet, financial systems, military, churches, land, food supplies, health care, education, government - anything he can, or anything he can fake an illusion of having control.

2. Any kind of dissension from "the system" will be seen as a threat by those in charge of the system - there must be compliance in order for Babylon to work - they need lots of "bricks in the wall" (Pink Floyd - look it up). Therefore, they will fight against Zion. They must in order to maintain the illusion of power.

3. Babylon's latest move is deplatforming folks, but eventually, you'll need Babylon's approval to get online, have a job, receive healthcare, buy groceries, have a bank account, get an education, etc., etc. Note that these are all areas that a parallel society (a precursor to Zion) needs to focus on.

4. One major thing the Babylon system won't be able to replicate is peace. Their supposed Utopia will eventually devolve into wars between countries, cities, states, communities, and families. Their promises will be exposed as "empty", and folks will be enraged that they invested so much in trying to make it happen. Like the joggers following Forest Gump through the desert, when the fraud is exposed, they'll angrily say, "now what are we supposed to do?". But at that point, they will also be blind to how to fix it or escape. This is the point, I think, where those with Zion in their hearts (the little organic pockets of Zion) - those who don't want to fight - will have to "flee to Zion", as we are told.

5. In previous versions of "fleeing Babylon", the Saints/Lehites/Nephites/Jews/Noahites/etc. could always find some un-inhabited place they could flee to. Not true for the Christians of Paul's day. While I think eventually a physical and singular place will be prepared ("Zion" / the New Jerusalem), I don't think that happens until almost the end - right before the wars engulf the rest of the world. But since there must eventually be somewhere to flee to, Zion must be physically established at some point prior.

I could be completely wrong. :)
Maybe this is what I was wondering in the thread. Are people committed to Zion? Are people intentionally preparing to escape Babylon when called or are they banking on it not being "too bad" in their lifetime. If the call doesn't come in one's lifetime, at least they made it possible for Zion.

I don't think there will be a call-out. I agree it will start with people preparing for Zion. Without preparation, it can't come. It takes faith to prepare for a scenario when you have no idea how it could come about or if anyone else is even preparing. I also agree with your assessment. Babylon is built on a pyramid of fear and disdain. You fear those above you and you disdain or strike fear into those below you, at least those below you in your own eyes. Zion will be a government built without fear or disdain. I don't know how such a government could withstand the test of time, which requires more faith.
Chris01 wrote: November 28th, 2022, 7:03 pm I love to see what the Utah OSR Land Co-op is doing.

https://osrcommunity.com/utah-co-op/

Moving off grid and joining into a community of like minded folks all at once! I'm jealous there's not something similar out here in the southeast.

Personally, I see the church as God's arm in the long term solution building Zion. When the beast system(social credit score, CBDC) comes online most likely in 2023 it's going to come as a surprise to a lot of people. This timeline will coincide perfectly with Lord proving many of his servants and he will most definitely raise his standard against it.
I used to live in the Southeast and would be open to it again.
Yes, there are people still preparing but it seems most doing it individually. I don’t see it coming to fruition all at once by our hands. How can it? How many people have tried and failed. It has to be orchestrated by God. Yes, there have been individuals who have been called out, although I do not claim that it’s been the way some people think. And please don’t give up hope because there are people who need people like you.

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tmac
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by tmac »

By comparison (in contrast to the Mormon experience), this is what the Amish are doing, as actively promoted by Plain Values magazine:

https://plainvalues.substack.com/p/intr ... dium=email

Their subtitle is “Cultivating Anchored Communities” — something we don’t see in Mormon circles.

FoundMyEden
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by FoundMyEden »

Tmac, Thanks for posting this. I’ve never heard of it before but right up our alley.

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harakim
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by harakim »

One option is waiting until this point until you opt out

7 And now I write somewhat concerning the sufferings of this people. For according to the knowledge which I have received from Amoron, behold, the Lamanites have many prisoners, which they took from the tower of Sherrizah; and there were men, women, and children.

8 And the husbands and fathers of those women and children they have slain; and they feed the women upon the flesh of their husbands, and the children upon the flesh of their fathers; and no water, save a little, do they give unto them.

9 And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

10 And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruel manner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery.

11 O my beloved son, how can a people like this, that are without civilization—

12 (And only a few years have passed away, and they were a civil and a delightsome people)

13 But O my son, how can a people like this, whose delight is in so much abomination—

14 How can we expect that God will stay his hand in judgment against us?

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Momma J
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by Momma J »

harakim wrote: December 6th, 2022, 11:08 pm One option is waiting until this point until you opt out

7 And now I write somewhat concerning the sufferings of this people. For according to the knowledge which I have received from Amoron, behold, the Lamanites have many prisoners, which they took from the tower of Sherrizah; and there were men, women, and children.

8 And the husbands and fathers of those women and children they have slain; and they feed the women upon the flesh of their husbands, and the children upon the flesh of their fathers; and no water, save a little, do they give unto them.

9 And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

10 And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruel manner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery.

11 O my beloved son, how can a people like this, that are without civilization—

12 (And only a few years have passed away, and they were a civil and a delightsome people)

13 But O my son, how can a people like this, whose delight is in so much abomination—

14 How can we expect that God will stay his hand in judgment against us?
For us, as a society, the breakdown will be much quicker as most would not be able to survive for a few years.

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mudflap
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by mudflap »

harakim wrote: December 6th, 2022, 11:08 pm One option is waiting until this point until you opt out

7 And now I write somewhat concerning the sufferings of this people. For according to the knowledge which I have received from Amoron, behold, the Lamanites have many prisoners, which they took from the tower of Sherrizah; and there were men, women, and children.

8 And the husbands and fathers of those women and children they have slain; and they feed the women upon the flesh of their husbands, and the children upon the flesh of their fathers; and no water, save a little, do they give unto them.

9 And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

10 And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruel manner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery.

11 O my beloved son, how can a people like this, that are without civilization—

12 (And only a few years have passed away, and they were a civil and a delightsome people)

13 But O my son, how can a people like this, whose delight is in so much abomination—

14 How can we expect that God will stay his hand in judgment against us?
"everlastingly too late" is a phrase that comes to mind.

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mudflap
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by mudflap »

harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:46 am I don't think there will be a call-out. I agree it will start with people preparing for Zion. Without preparation, it can't come. It takes faith to prepare for a scenario when you have no idea how it could come about or if anyone else is even preparing. I also agree with your assessment. Babylon is built on a pyramid of fear and disdain. You fear those above you and you disdain or strike fear into those below you, at least those below you in your own eyes. Zion will be a government built without fear or disdain. I don't know how such a government could withstand the test of time, which requires more faith.
I think there will be a callout- eventually - - but it will be for the sheep - those who need to be told what to do and where to go. But this will be after the cleansing of the church mentioned in several places - most significantly here:
D&C 112:24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.
Brigham Young, with all his faults, still had a lot to say about Zion. An excellent (maybe damning for the woke church?) resource is here:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 6?lang=eng :
Do we realize that if we enjoy a Zion in time or in eternity we must make it for ourselves? That all, who have a Zion in the eternities of the Gods, organized, framed, consolidated, and perfected it themselves, and consequently are entitled to enjoy it? (DBY, 118).

When we conclude to make a Zion we will make it, and this work commences in the heart of each person. When the father of a family wishes to make a Zion in his own house, he must take the lead in this good work, which it is impossible for him to do unless he himself possesses the spirit of Zion. Before he can produce the work of sanctification in his family, he must sanctify himself, and by this means God can help him to sanctify his family (DBY, 118).

Let us train our minds until we delight in that which is good, lovely and holy, seeking continually after that intelligence which will enable us effectually to build up Zion, which consists in building houses, tabernacles, temples, streets, and every convenience and necessity to embellish and beautify, seeking to do the will of the Lord all the days of our lives, improving our minds in all scientific and mechanical knowledge, seeking diligently to understand the great design and plan of all created things,
It is wise and good to seek the knowledge of how to build things. I had the chance, when I returned to collage the second time, between two choices: 1. establish myself in a career that would make lots of money 2. establish myself in a career that would allow me time to pursue the acquisition of knowledge. I chose door #2, and we are just making it comfortably, money-wise (it could be worse, thank the Lord). I value knowledge much, much more than money.

Meanwhile, the Church is trending away from the mention of Zion:
Image (source: https://www.lds-general-conference.org/, search for the word "Zion").

This is not a good sign

well.....maybe it IS a good sign - maybe the unwise virgins among us are being led along until they run out of oil, while the few among us with ears to hear - those than can separate the voice of the Spirit from those who are having their souls cheated - are being whispered to: "hurry. there isn't much time left." And I can't say it's been a whisper to me and my family: it's been urgent enough that we are, day and night, trying to get out of Sodom. Day, with my day job to pay the bills; and Night, working on finishing this cabin away from it all. My wife often refers to the cabin as an ark. It's not quite as large as the original ark, but then again, I haven't been building it for the last few hundred years either. ;)

edit to point out that I accidentally misspelled "college", lol. Freudian slip, maybe? ha ha on me....

EmmaLee
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by EmmaLee »

That chart ^ is extremely telling (and damning).

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h_p
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by h_p »

It'd be interesting to see that graph superimposed with a graph of the number of references to the sitting president's name.

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mudflap
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by mudflap »

maybe we can brighten things up:

Image

;)

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FrankOne
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by FrankOne »

mudflap wrote: December 7th, 2022, 1:42 pm maybe we can brighten things up:

Image

;)
Image

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harakim
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by harakim »

mudflap wrote: December 7th, 2022, 9:03 am
harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:46 am I don't think there will be a call-out. I agree it will start with people preparing for Zion. Without preparation, it can't come. It takes faith to prepare for a scenario when you have no idea how it could come about or if anyone else is even preparing. I also agree with your assessment. Babylon is built on a pyramid of fear and disdain. You fear those above you and you disdain or strike fear into those below you, at least those below you in your own eyes. Zion will be a government built without fear or disdain. I don't know how such a government could withstand the test of time, which requires more faith.
I think there will be a callout- eventually - - but it will be for the sheep - those who need to be told what to do and where to go. But this will be after the cleansing of the church mentioned in several places - most significantly here:
D&C 112:24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.
Brigham Young, with all his faults, still had a lot to say about Zion. An excellent (maybe damning for the woke church?) resource is here:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 6?lang=eng :
Do we realize that if we enjoy a Zion in time or in eternity we must make it for ourselves? That all, who have a Zion in the eternities of the Gods, organized, framed, consolidated, and perfected it themselves, and consequently are entitled to enjoy it? (DBY, 118).

When we conclude to make a Zion we will make it, and this work commences in the heart of each person. When the father of a family wishes to make a Zion in his own house, he must take the lead in this good work, which it is impossible for him to do unless he himself possesses the spirit of Zion. Before he can produce the work of sanctification in his family, he must sanctify himself, and by this means God can help him to sanctify his family (DBY, 118).

Let us train our minds until we delight in that which is good, lovely and holy, seeking continually after that intelligence which will enable us effectually to build up Zion, which consists in building houses, tabernacles, temples, streets, and every convenience and necessity to embellish and beautify, seeking to do the will of the Lord all the days of our lives, improving our minds in all scientific and mechanical knowledge, seeking diligently to understand the great design and plan of all created things,
It is wise and good to seek the knowledge of how to build things. I had the chance, when I returned to collage the second time, between two choices: 1. establish myself in a career that would make lots of money 2. establish myself in a career that would allow me time to pursue the acquisition of knowledge. I chose door #2, and we are just making it comfortably, money-wise (it could be worse, thank the Lord). I value knowledge much, much more than money.

Meanwhile, the Church is trending away from the mention of Zion:
Image (source: https://www.lds-general-conference.org/, search for the word "Zion").

This is not a good sign

well.....maybe it IS a good sign - maybe the unwise virgins among us are being led along until they run out of oil, while the few among us with ears to hear - those than can separate the voice of the Spirit from those who are having their souls cheated - are being whispered to: "hurry. there isn't much time left." And I can't say it's been a whisper to me and my family: it's been urgent enough that we are, day and night, trying to get out of Sodom. Day, with my day job to pay the bills; and Night, working on finishing this cabin away from it all. My wife often refers to the cabin as an ark. It's not quite as large as the original ark, but then again, I haven't been building it for the last few hundred years either. ;)

edit to point out that I accidentally misspelled "college", lol. Freudian slip, maybe? ha ha on me....
This is an excellent post. Thank you for taking the time to post that, especially the Brigham Young section. I would not have expected that from old Brigham.

That Brigham Young quote goes well with a thought I've been having lately. Where would the justice be if we made no real contribution to the world but maybe we did check some LDS boxes, then when we died we went to heaven, leaving everyone born on this Earth in the future to suffer. I think we will have to come back and reap what we've sown. I suppose it could instead be our descendants who will reap what we sow. I remember back to the people who said they would not want another mortal probation, but I imagined what Jesus would say if he was asked what he thought of his life and coming back. Immediately to my mind came an image of him in robe and sandals leaning back in his chair with his hands behind his head saying "No regrets." When you leave it all on the field, you don't think badly on it, even if it goes badly.

I think we need to build Zion in any way shape or form we are called. I don't mean that we are called by Bishop Corp or some secret leader of the Black Hand. We don't need to join a group or look to a human leader. A human leader could be compromised, captured or killed. Our leader cannot be. A human leader might not be able to communicate to us, but our leader speaks directly to our hearts and minds. A human leader could be under the sway of the gads, but we can always trust our leader. It is a much better plan. We all just have to listen to that still small voice speak the truth to us. I don't know how often one should get specific inspiration, but when I read or hear or see something, the spirit can confirm or deny the truth of it. This will be our saving grace against the Beast Kingdom.

I also am starting to hear the call. Even others I know outside the church are hearing it. I don't listen to Joe Rogan often, but when I do, I think he might hear it. We are being called to create the world that we want to have exist. That Brigham quote says: "Do we realize that if we enjoy a Zion in time or in eternity we must make it for ourselves?" I can't guarantee that we'll come back to this Earth, but I'm pretty confident that we will have to build it while we are here. For all I know this world is for the descendants of Abraham and the rest of us are just here to pitch in. In any case, I think we are learning how to build Zion and we will get better with each run.

To your point about the unwise virgins, a lot of people have been talking about the wheat and the tares lately.

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tmac
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by tmac »

This month’s Amish round table about Pride, Community, and Interdependence is a good one.

https://plainvalues.substack.com/p/the- ... dium=email

This is what I’m talking about.

EmmaLee
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by EmmaLee »

Common sense to most folks around here, but always good to get reminders on the basics...

How to Prepare for CBDC Tyranny

The truth is that it is only a matter of time before we are cashless and living with a CBDC. It’s better to start preparing for it now than waiting to see if it will really happen.

Get your financial house in order. Start by getting your finances in order. Pay down any debt you have, make wise investments, and set aside savings. Work with more trustworthy banking and credit institutions. [My suggestion is a small, local credit union for any banking type needs]

Make wise purchases today. Think carefully about what you buy today. There may come a day when you won’t feel safe making those same purchases (such as handguns or ammo). [Or food...]

Stock up on bartering supplies. When America embraces a CBDC, not everyone will be on board. But cash will be useless. In this case, you’ll have to barter. Stock up on items that will be easy to barter in the future. [Such as coffee, TP, soap, spices, tampons/pads, food, knowledge, skills...]

Pay attention. Stay aware of what is happening. For example, the Federal Reserve pilot CBDC program was announced right before Thanksgiving when people weren’t paying attention. [A very common tactic, so it's always good to pay special attention on weekends, and around holidays.]

mtmom
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by mtmom »

harakim wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 12:58 pm Most of the people on this forum talk about how deeply corrupt society is. I already know that based on just the people I've talked to in my occupation. How far do things have to go before you opt out of the corrupt society? Will it ever change if you don't? Honestly, what would it take for you to just walk away and say I'm done?
If I had a choice, I would leave the state of Utah. The people I worked for (when I worked for the State of Utah) were great. But now less than 10 years later, there is so much politics involved with my former agency. I dislike the politics immensely. The same politics have spread to the county.....church likewise. I understand your frustration, EmmaLee. But I am sure that we would find the same situation in Idaho or Wyoming. So for now, let's be the worst global citizen we can be!
Screenshot_20230125-161619.png
Screenshot_20230125-161619.png (881.39 KiB) Viewed 147 times
And keep smiling. 😋

EmmaLee
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Re: When Does One Opt Out?

Post by EmmaLee »

mtmom wrote: January 25th, 2023, 4:20 pm
harakim wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 12:58 pm Most of the people on this forum talk about how deeply corrupt society is. I already know that based on just the people I've talked to in my occupation. How far do things have to go before you opt out of the corrupt society? Will it ever change if you don't? Honestly, what would it take for you to just walk away and say I'm done?
If I had a choice, I would leave the state of Utah. The people I worked for (when I worked for the State of Utah) were great. But now less than 10 years later, there is so much politics involved with my former agency. I dislike the politics immensely. The same politics have spread to the county.....church likewise. I understand your frustration, EmmaLee. But I am sure that we would find the same situation in Idaho or Wyoming. So for now, let's be the worst global citizen we can be!
And keep smiling. 😋

Always! :D

(I'm not in Utah, but yeah, it's everywhere - nowhere in the world is exempt.)

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