A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Post Reply
endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6429

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by endlessQuestions »

Here's some demographic info on Oaks. A good resource. Couldn't get to the page unless I went to the text-only cached version:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =1&vwsrc=0

This is Google's cache of https://prabook.com/web/dallin_harris.oaks/681283. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Nov 17, 2022 17:22:50 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more.
Full versionText-only versionView source


Dallin Harris Oaks, American lawyer, church official. Bar: Illinois 1957, Utah 1971.
Background
Oaks, Dallin Harris was born on August 12, 1932 in Provo, Utah, United States. Son of Lloyd E. and Stella (Harris) Oaks.

Education
Bachelor with high honors, Brigham Young University, 1954. Doctor of Laws (honorary), Brigham Young University, 1980. Juris Doctor cum laude, University Chicago, 1957.

Doctor of Laws (honorary), Pepperdine University, 1982. Doctor of Laws (honorary), Southern Utah University, 1991.

Career
Law clerk to Chief Justice Earl Warren, Supreme Court of the United States Court, 1957-1958; with, firm Kirkland, Ellis, Hodson, Chaffetz & Masters, Chicago, 1958-1961; member of faculty, University of Chicago Law School, 1961-1971; associate dean and acting dean, University of Chicago Law School, 1962; professor, University of Chicago Law School, 1964-1971; member visiting committee, University of Chicago Law School, 1971-1974; president, Brigham Young U., Provo, Utah., 1971-1980; also professor of law, J. Reuben Clark Law School, 1974-1980; justice, Utah Supreme Court, 1981-1984; member Council of Twelve Apostles, Church Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, since 1984. Legal counsel Bill of Rights committee Illinois Constitutional Convention, 1970.

Achievements
Dallin Harris Oaks has been listed as a reputable Lawyer, church official by Marquis Who's Who.

Works
Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart His Holy Name His Holy Name Pure in Heart Pure in Heart With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002 With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002 Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies
book
His Holy Name
(The holy name of Jesus Christ is invoked daily in prayers...)

Cases and Text on the Law of Trusts (University Casebook Series)
(Turn to this reference for all the major aspects of the l...)

Pure in Heart
( "Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall see God....)

Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies
(Book by Oaks, Dallin H.)

With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks
(Elder Dallin H. Oaks, known for his keen gospel insights ...)

The Criminal justice act in the Federal District courts
Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County
Wall Between Church and State (Phoenix Books)
The Wall between Church and State. Contributors: Robert F. Drinan And Others
Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart
The Wall Between Church and State
With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002
Views
Those who choose not to follow Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.

Membership
Member advisory committee National Institute Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice, 1974—1976. Member Wilson council Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, 1973—1980. Trustee Intermountain Health Care Inc., 1975—1980.

Regional representative Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1974—1980, past 1st counselor Chicago South Stake. Board directors Notre Dame Center for Constitutional Studies, 1977—1980, Rockford Institute, 1980—2000, Public Broadcasting Service, 1977—1985, chairman, 1980—1985. Board directors Polynesian Cultural Center, 1987—1996, chairman, 1988—1996.

Fellow: American Bar Foundation (executive director 1970-1971). Member: American Association President Indiana Colleges and Universities (president 1975-1978, director 1971-1978), Order of Coif.

Connections
Married June Dixon, June 24, 1952 (deceased July 1998). Children: Sharmon, Cheri Lyn, Lloyd D., Dallin D., TruAnn, Jenny June. Married Kristen McMain, August 25, 2000.

Father:
Lloyd E. Oaks
Mother:
Stella (Harris) Oaks
Spouse:
June Dixon
Spouse:
Kristen McMain
child:
Dallin D. Oaks
child:
TruAnn Oaks
child:
Cheri Lyn Oaks
child:
Jenny June Oaks
child:
Lloyd D. Oaks
child:
Sharmon Oaks
About FAQ Mobile Version Terms of Service Privacy Policy Contacts Join Prabook
Prabook is a registered trademark of World Biographical Encyclopedia, Inc.

Version 2.0.48.1.1248 2021

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6429

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by endlessQuestions »

And one last, really weird, connection for tonight:

Oaks did serve on the board of The Rockford Institute, from 1980-2000, as can be seen from my post above.

The Rockford Institute, at first glance, is just a weird blip on the map. It was small, not all that influential, and went away fairly quickly.

It's weird, because it was supposedly what all the sites call a "paleoconservative" organization. Paleoconservativism is defined as:

"a person who advocates old or traditional forms of conservatism; an extremely right-wing conservative."

So you've got Oaks, who's on the board of PBS - one of the most left leaning organizations in the world, and also on the board of The Rockford Institute, supposedly one of the most right leaning institutions in the world.

But when you look at Rockford, you see one of it's major activities was running the John Randolph Club.

Who was John Randolph? Here's where it gets weird:

"Randolph suffered from a condition that hindered his maturation, perhaps Klinefelter's Syndrome. He never had a beard and his famous orator's voice was high pitched, some said womanly. Steve Vogel describes Randolph this way:

'Randolph's small head, raised shoulders, tiny waist, and long, thin legs gave him the look of a crane, and appearance made all the more pronounced by his clothing, usually a swallowtail coat adorned with a white cravat in which he would bury his neck.'"

and this:

'"Timothy Stanley wrote in The American Conservative that:

"John Randolph of Roanoke was everything the modern conservative might despise: aristocratic, sexually ambiguous, occasionally irreligious, anti-party, and the sworn enemy of military adventurism. His personality suggests he might have had more in common with the late Gore Vidal than Sarah Palin. Yet Randolph still stands out as one of the most important conservative thinkers of the generation after the Founding Fathers."
K. A. Muston wrote in the Daily Kos that "The man represents the tap root of two great branches in American conservative politics, patrician conservatives and gay conservatives; because if John Randolph wasn’t gay, then neither was Roy Cohen."'

and this:

'"When I was in Richmond a few days since," said Mr. Ridgely Howard of Baltimore to a representative of the Washington Star at the New Willard, "I made one of those bad breaks which prove so embarrassing. I was a guest of a member of the crack Westmoreland club, and after a slight repast I was escorted through the building for the purpose of viewing the pictures, relics of the civil war, -etc. During the tour mentioned my attention was particularly attracted to the portrait of what I took to be a very handsome brunette. I incidentally remarked to my host that the young lady was quite pretty, when, with a low chuckle, he replied, 'Yes, quite pretty, but as a matter of fact the picture represents John Randolph of Roanoke at 18.' You also smile, but let me explain how I was caught. The hair was parted in the middle and neatly combed back of the ears; the features were of a purely feminine mold, and the expression of the eyes and face was so shy and bashful that you will readily understand how I was deceived. One can hardly conceive, looking at the portrait of Randolph at the age represented, that he could ever grow into the cynical and disagreeable creature he is reported to have been in his later years. If he ever had love affairs which went wrong I have never heard of them. As near as I can learn he never had any real ardent affection for any woman except his mother, who, it is said, was beautiful, and whom it is also said he closely resembled in beauty as a child."'

So this small, weird "paleoconservative" organization ran a club named after - John Randolph? And Dallin H. Oaks, who by this time was rather influential, decided to sit on their Board of Directors (which is strange in and of itself because I don't think "paleoconservatives" are all that fond of Mormons as a general rule)?

Um, okay.

@FoxMammaWisdom - wanna do some analysis on John Randolph? There are several portraits here:

http://allenbrowne.blogspot.com/2016/01 ... anoke.html

EDIT: I just want to point out, finds like this are why rummaging through the trash, while not pleasant, is sometimes important.

EDIT TWO: I missed a critical quote from the article. It's been a long night:

"It seems Randolph was not gay, he was more or less asexual due to his lack of physical development. Stanley quotes Bill Kauffman that “Dr. Francis West conducted a post-mortem examination of Randolph and recorded that the ‘scrotum was scarcely at all developed,’ with only a right testicle ‘the size of a small bean.’” We might say that John Randolph of Roanoke was neither a heterosexual nor a homosexual but falls somewhere else in the LGBT spectrum."
Last edited by endlessQuestions on December 2nd, 2022, 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
John Tavner
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4154

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by John Tavner »

endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:21 pm Okay, after a night of research, I think I'm pretty clear that Jon Bystrom is, at best, a sloppy writer.

Looks like a personal feud has blown up into something much bigger in his mind.

Doesn't make him wrong - just makes him extremely biased, and not a good source, except for claims that can be verified or falsified through other, less biased sources.

I feel for the man - I truly do. But even if he has a case, you have to be able to state your case clearly and compellingly, and he doesn't (in my opinion).

The sheer number of "coincidences" regarding what Bystrom talks about, and what AGF talked about, is the most interesting find of the night. This little subculture is something I was not aware of before reading the Railroad thread.
To be clear, I don't know if AGF and Jon Bystrom know one another. I suspect not, but I could be very wrong. My comment was about other people who are and have been discussed on this forum they intersect with Jon Bystrom or vice versa. I don't know how close they are, but I agree with much of your assessment. What i will say is interesting is Usually things pop up on LDSFF and then a few days later or hours later people on FB will begin talking about it. I see that all the time. I have people call me from time to time and say "did you hear about this" and almost always I have.. because either someone did it on Youtube and put it here and then from here it disseminates or it originated here and someoen does a youtube.

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6429

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by endlessQuestions »

John Tavner wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:59 pm
endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:21 pm Okay, after a night of research, I think I'm pretty clear that Jon Bystrom is, at best, a sloppy writer.

Looks like a personal feud has blown up into something much bigger in his mind.

Doesn't make him wrong - just makes him extremely biased, and not a good source, except for claims that can be verified or falsified through other, less biased sources.

I feel for the man - I truly do. But even if he has a case, you have to be able to state your case clearly and compellingly, and he doesn't (in my opinion).

The sheer number of "coincidences" regarding what Bystrom talks about, and what AGF talked about, is the most interesting find of the night. This little subculture is something I was not aware of before reading the Railroad thread.
To be clear, I don't know if AGF and Jon Bystrom know one another. I suspect not, but I could be very wrong. My comment was about other people who are and have been discussed on this forum they intersect with Jon Bystrom or vice versa. I don't know how close they are, but I agree with much of your assessment. What i will say is interesting is Usually things pop up on LDSFF and then a few days later or hours later people on FB will begin talking about it. I see that all the time. I have people call me from time to time and say "did you hear about this" and almost always I have.. because either someone did it on Youtube and put it here and then from here it disseminates or it originated here and someoen does a youtube.
That is interesting. I would say one preliminary finding from my research is that there's what I will call a "Bystromic influence" here at LDSFF. And I can kind of remember when it started happening, a couple years back. Not specifically, but there seemed to be a real shift in tone and topic here on the board... this more conspiratorial, antagonistic thrust that has become rather common around these parts.

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6429

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by endlessQuestions »

Oh, why not? Waiting for people to get home so I can sleep... might as well add this:

Oaks is a member of something called "The Order of the Coif"

On the surface it's just an honor's society for people in the legal profession.

On their membership certificate it says:

ordinis
cuphiae
sigillum
magnum

ordinis means "ordained"
cuphiae means "A covering going round the head"
sigillum means "a seal" or "to be sealed"
and magnum means "A great thing", or "boast, proud claim"

https://orderofthecoif.org/

So here we've got another leader of the church accepting membership into an organization that has "ordained" and "sealed" him by placing a mark on his head because of "great things" or "proud claims" associated with him.

I think I need to go take a shower. What is it with these people?

User avatar
tmac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4526
Location: Reality

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by tmac »

Interesting stuff. Another major red flag was the SCOTUS clerkship for ultra-liberal chief justice Earl Warren. Very telling. While many in the Church have always viewed DHO as conservative, his actions speak louder than words. He definitely has a much stronger liberal resume.

This research is providing dots that can be connected. And that does remind me of one of AGF’s early assertions that seemed to be a surprise, and that no one seemed to have ever heard — that Oaks’ first wife was pregnant when they got married. And there is no indication that he ever served a mission. Not that either one of those things are in any way damning, but certainly don't seem to fit the mold of a squeaky clean Mormon boy from Provo, who, after pursuing a very worldly path in life, suddenly, completely out of left field (literally) becomes an apostle, and then, 40 years later seems squarely on track take the Church into the NWO.

As far as I have seen, virtually all of his resume credentials and connections seem to lean heavily toward the worldly, liberal, elitist, progressive globalist bent. Again, actions speak louder than words. Based on his actual values, actions, and long-standing pattern of connections, I think he may correctly be viewed as a progressive, globalist wolf in sheep’s clothing — just like RMN? Birds of a feather?
Last edited by tmac on December 3rd, 2022, 8:10 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Dusty Wanderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1411

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:38 pm Here's some demographic info on Oaks. A good resource. Couldn't get to the page unless I went to the text-only cached version:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =1&vwsrc=0

This is Google's cache of https://prabook.com/web/dallin_harris.oaks/681283. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Nov 17, 2022 17:22:50 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more.
Full versionText-only versionView source


Dallin Harris Oaks, American lawyer, church official. Bar: Illinois 1957, Utah 1971.
Background
Oaks, Dallin Harris was born on August 12, 1932 in Provo, Utah, United States. Son of Lloyd E. and Stella (Harris) Oaks.

Education
Bachelor with high honors, Brigham Young University, 1954. Doctor of Laws (honorary), Brigham Young University, 1980. Juris Doctor cum laude, University Chicago, 1957.

Doctor of Laws (honorary), Pepperdine University, 1982. Doctor of Laws (honorary), Southern Utah University, 1991.

Career
Law clerk to Chief Justice Earl Warren, Supreme Court of the United States Court, 1957-1958; with, firm Kirkland, Ellis, Hodson, Chaffetz & Masters, Chicago, 1958-1961; member of faculty, University of Chicago Law School, 1961-1971; associate dean and acting dean, University of Chicago Law School, 1962; professor, University of Chicago Law School, 1964-1971; member visiting committee, University of Chicago Law School, 1971-1974; president, Brigham Young U., Provo, Utah., 1971-1980; also professor of law, J. Reuben Clark Law School, 1974-1980; justice, Utah Supreme Court, 1981-1984; member Council of Twelve Apostles, Church Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, since 1984. Legal counsel Bill of Rights committee Illinois Constitutional Convention, 1970.

Achievements
Dallin Harris Oaks has been listed as a reputable Lawyer, church official by Marquis Who's Who.

Works
Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart His Holy Name His Holy Name Pure in Heart Pure in Heart With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002 With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002 Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies
book
His Holy Name
(The holy name of Jesus Christ is invoked daily in prayers...)

Cases and Text on the Law of Trusts (University Casebook Series)
(Turn to this reference for all the major aspects of the l...)

Pure in Heart
( "Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall see God....)

Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies
(Book by Oaks, Dallin H.)

With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks
(Elder Dallin H. Oaks, known for his keen gospel insights ...)

The Criminal justice act in the Federal District courts
Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County
Wall Between Church and State (Phoenix Books)
The Wall between Church and State. Contributors: Robert F. Drinan And Others
Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart
The Wall Between Church and State
With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002
Views
Those who choose not to follow Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.

Membership
Member advisory committee National Institute Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice, 1974—1976. Member Wilson council Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, 1973—1980. Trustee Intermountain Health Care Inc., 1975—1980.

Regional representative Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1974—1980, past 1st counselor Chicago South Stake. Board directors Notre Dame Center for Constitutional Studies, 1977—1980, Rockford Institute, 1980—2000, Public Broadcasting Service, 1977—1985, chairman, 1980—1985. Board directors Polynesian Cultural Center, 1987—1996, chairman, 1988—1996.

Fellow: American Bar Foundation (executive director 1970-1971). Member: American Association President Indiana Colleges and Universities (president 1975-1978, director 1971-1978), Order of Coif.

Connections
Married June Dixon, June 24, 1952 (deceased July 1998). Children: Sharmon, Cheri Lyn, Lloyd D., Dallin D., TruAnn, Jenny June. Married Kristen McMain, August 25, 2000.

Father:
Lloyd E. Oaks
Mother:
Stella (Harris) Oaks
Spouse:
June Dixon
Spouse:
Kristen McMain
child:
Dallin D. Oaks
child:
TruAnn Oaks
child:
Cheri Lyn Oaks
child:
Jenny June Oaks
child:
Lloyd D. Oaks
child:
Sharmon Oaks
About FAQ Mobile Version Terms of Service Privacy Policy Contacts Join Prabook
Prabook is a registered trademark of World Biographical Encyclopedia, Inc.

Version 2.0.48.1.1248 2021
I'm not very familiar with how university tenure and status works, but is it common for a faculty member to become the dean after their first year?
member of faculty, University of Chicago Law School, 1961-1971; associate dean and acting dean, University of Chicago Law School, 1962
I'm sure it's nothing - perhaps the arrangement was that he come on as dean but needed at least one year of tenure before the position could be filled?

---
Here's some more background - just information (didn't realize the high profile connections in Chicago):

While he lived in Chicago he served as a counselor in the stake presidency under President John K Edmunds and other counselor David M. Kennedy. Just a couple things to note here:

1. Before his call as the first Chicago Stake president, John K. Edmunds, also a lawyer with a degree from Northwestern, had served as a special assistant to two mission presidents: George S. Romney (Marion G. Romney's father) and Bryant S. Hinckley (Gordon B. Hinckley's father).

2. David M. Kennedy served 15 years in the Federal Reserve before his stake presidency calling, first as a staffer to the board and then as assistant to the chairman, Marriner Stoddard Eccles (served as fed chairman under FDR, participated in forming post-WWII World Bank and International Monetary Fund, who's tasked with "surveilling the world's financiers", today's headquarters of the Federal Reserve in DC is the Eccles Building), Kennedy also served as US Secretary of Treasury, US ambassador to NATO, and a special representative of the First Presidency of the church as he went around the globe.

---
There is a Harriman in Oak's lineage, but it's distant and I haven't been able to confirm if it's a relation to E. H. Harriman, of the railroad. Probably nothing, just disclosing:

Stella Oaks (Pres. Oaks mother) > Silas Harris (Stella's father) > Louisa Maria Harris-Hall (Silas' mother) > Benjamin Kimball Hall (Louisa's father) > Ruth Hall-Harriman > Deacon Joseph Harriman

User avatar
Dusty Wanderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1411

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:57 pm
So you've got Oaks, who's on the board of PBS - one of the most left leaning organizations in the world, and also on the board of The Rockford Institute, supposedly one of the most right leaning institutions in the world.
Don't know if there's anything to this, but I recalled coming across it as I was putting together my previous post on his stake presidency counselors in Chicago. I think the other counselor had high-profile broadcasting connections:
In October 1962, U.S. President John F. Kennedy (no relation) appointed him a member of a private corporation (COMSAT) to own and operate the United States' share of a global satellite communications system. He was elected to the permanent board of directors in 1964.
https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/David_M._Kennedy

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6429

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by endlessQuestions »

Dusty Wanderer wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 10:56 pm
endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:57 pm
So you've got Oaks, who's on the board of PBS - one of the most left leaning organizations in the world, and also on the board of The Rockford Institute, supposedly one of the most right leaning institutions in the world.
Don't know if there's anything to this, but I recalled coming across it as I was putting together my previous post on his stake presidency counselors in Chicago. I think the other counselor had high-profile broadcasting connections.
In October 1962, U.S. President John F. Kennedy (no relation) appointed him a member of a private corporation (COMSAT) to own and operate the United States' share of a global satellite communications system. He was elected to the permanent board of directors in 1964.
https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/David_M._Kennedy
There's definitely some weirdness going on in that Rockford area surrounding the church and it's leadership. Seems to be a "launching pad" for church leaders.

For example, in the conference after Oaks is made an apostle, one of his old stake presidency buddies gets a "promotion" to a "new", "non-lifetime" First Quorum of the Seventy calling:

Here's the link to the call:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

"It is proposed, therefore, that we sustain the following as members of the First Quorum of the Seventy in these circumstances: Elder John Sonnenberg of Chicago, who has served as a bishop, a stake president, and is currently serving as a Regional Representative and chairman of the Chicago Temple committee"

And here's the evidence regarding how close he and Oaks were:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

Then you've got Kennedy's, Romney's, and all kinds of other people coming out of that area.

It's like the Racine, WI of the Mormon church, for those who know what that means.
Last edited by endlessQuestions on December 2nd, 2022, 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6429

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by endlessQuestions »

tmac wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 10:46 pm Interesting stuff. Another major red flag was the SCOTUS clerkship for ultra-liberal chief justice Earl Warren. Very telling. While many in the Church have always viewed Oaks as conservative, his actions speak louder than words. He definitely has a much stronger liberal resume. Based on his actual values, I think he can correctly be viewed as a wolf in sheep’s clothing — just like RMN.

This research is providing dots that can be connected. And that does remind me of one of AGF’s early revelations that was a surprise, and that no one had seemed to have ever heard — that Oaks’ first wife was pregnant when they got married. And there is no indication that he ever served a mission. As far as I have seen virtually all of his resume credentials seem to be both liberal and very worldly. Actions speak louder than words?
I'm not sure I'm willing to go this far, yet. But the evidence is pointing in that direction - a "very conservative" persona, but "very liberal" reality. We'll see as it unfolds.

I saw that claim about Oaks' first wife. I've chosen to not look into that yet.

He definitely didn't serve a mission. I saw a church source on that tonight. The article talked about how he was expecting to get called up to the Korean War, but (the article hints) miraculously his unit never got called. And then it mentions that because of the war not many young men were going on missions, and Oaks wasn't chosen as one of the few who needed to go.

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6429

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by endlessQuestions »

Dusty Wanderer wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 10:46 pm
endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:38 pm Here's some demographic info on Oaks. A good resource. Couldn't get to the page unless I went to the text-only cached version:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =1&vwsrc=0

This is Google's cache of https://prabook.com/web/dallin_harris.oaks/681283. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Nov 17, 2022 17:22:50 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more.
Full versionText-only versionView source


Dallin Harris Oaks, American lawyer, church official. Bar: Illinois 1957, Utah 1971.
Background
Oaks, Dallin Harris was born on August 12, 1932 in Provo, Utah, United States. Son of Lloyd E. and Stella (Harris) Oaks.

Education
Bachelor with high honors, Brigham Young University, 1954. Doctor of Laws (honorary), Brigham Young University, 1980. Juris Doctor cum laude, University Chicago, 1957.

Doctor of Laws (honorary), Pepperdine University, 1982. Doctor of Laws (honorary), Southern Utah University, 1991.

Career
Law clerk to Chief Justice Earl Warren, Supreme Court of the United States Court, 1957-1958; with, firm Kirkland, Ellis, Hodson, Chaffetz & Masters, Chicago, 1958-1961; member of faculty, University of Chicago Law School, 1961-1971; associate dean and acting dean, University of Chicago Law School, 1962; professor, University of Chicago Law School, 1964-1971; member visiting committee, University of Chicago Law School, 1971-1974; president, Brigham Young U., Provo, Utah., 1971-1980; also professor of law, J. Reuben Clark Law School, 1974-1980; justice, Utah Supreme Court, 1981-1984; member Council of Twelve Apostles, Church Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, since 1984. Legal counsel Bill of Rights committee Illinois Constitutional Convention, 1970.

Achievements
Dallin Harris Oaks has been listed as a reputable Lawyer, church official by Marquis Who's Who.

Works
Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart His Holy Name His Holy Name Pure in Heart Pure in Heart With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002 With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002 Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies
book
His Holy Name
(The holy name of Jesus Christ is invoked daily in prayers...)

Cases and Text on the Law of Trusts (University Casebook Series)
(Turn to this reference for all the major aspects of the l...)

Pure in Heart
( "Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall see God....)

Trust Doctrines in Church Controversies
(Book by Oaks, Dallin H.)

With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks
(Elder Dallin H. Oaks, known for his keen gospel insights ...)

The Criminal justice act in the Federal District courts
Criminal Justice System and the Indigent: Study of Chicago and Cook County
Wall Between Church and State (Phoenix Books)
The Wall between Church and State. Contributors: Robert F. Drinan And Others
Leather Edition Limited to 730 Copies With Full Purpose of Heart
The Wall Between Church and State
With Full Purpose of Heart: Collection of Messages by Dallin H. Oaks Hardcover - October, 2002
Views
Those who choose not to follow Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.

Membership
Member advisory committee National Institute Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice, 1974—1976. Member Wilson council Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, 1973—1980. Trustee Intermountain Health Care Inc., 1975—1980.

Regional representative Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1974—1980, past 1st counselor Chicago South Stake. Board directors Notre Dame Center for Constitutional Studies, 1977—1980, Rockford Institute, 1980—2000, Public Broadcasting Service, 1977—1985, chairman, 1980—1985. Board directors Polynesian Cultural Center, 1987—1996, chairman, 1988—1996.

Fellow: American Bar Foundation (executive director 1970-1971). Member: American Association President Indiana Colleges and Universities (president 1975-1978, director 1971-1978), Order of Coif.

Connections
Married June Dixon, June 24, 1952 (deceased July 1998). Children: Sharmon, Cheri Lyn, Lloyd D., Dallin D., TruAnn, Jenny June. Married Kristen McMain, August 25, 2000.

Father:
Lloyd E. Oaks
Mother:
Stella (Harris) Oaks
Spouse:
June Dixon
Spouse:
Kristen McMain
child:
Dallin D. Oaks
child:
TruAnn Oaks
child:
Cheri Lyn Oaks
child:
Jenny June Oaks
child:
Lloyd D. Oaks
child:
Sharmon Oaks
About FAQ Mobile Version Terms of Service Privacy Policy Contacts Join Prabook
Prabook is a registered trademark of World Biographical Encyclopedia, Inc.

Version 2.0.48.1.1248 2021
I'm not very familiar with how university tenure and status works, but is it common for a faculty member to become the dean after their first year?
member of faculty, University of Chicago Law School, 1961-1971; associate dean and acting dean, University of Chicago Law School, 1962
I'm sure it's nothing - perhaps the arrangement was that he come on as dean but needed at least one year of tenure before the position could be filled?

---
Here's some more background - just information (didn't realize the high profile connections in Chicago):

While he lived in Chicago he served as a counselor in the stake presidency under President John K Edmunds and other counselor David M. Kennedy. Just a couple things to note here:

1. Before his call as the first Chicago Stake president, John K. Edmunds, also a lawyer with a degree from Northwestern, had served as a special assistant to two mission presidents: George S. Romney (Marion G. Romney's father) and Bryant S. Hinckley (Gordon B. Hinckley's father).

2. David M. Kennedy served 15 years in the Federal Reserve before his stake presidency calling, first as a staffer to the board and then as assistant to the chairman, Marriner Stoddard Eccles (served as fed chairman under FDR, participated in forming post-WWII World Bank and International Monetary Fund, who's tasked with "surveilling the world's financiers", today's headquarters of the Federal Reserve in DC is the Eccles Building), Kennedy also served as US Secretary of Treasury, US ambassador to NATO, and a special representative of the First Presidency of the church as he went around the globe.

---
There is a Harriman in Oak's lineage, but it's distant and I haven't been able to confirm if it's a relation to E. H. Harriman, of the railroad. Probably nothing, just disclosing:

Stella Oaks (Pres. Oaks mother) > Silas Harris (Stella's father) > Louisa Maria Harris-Hall (Silas' mother) > Benjamin Kimball Hall (Louisa's father) > Ruth Hall-Harriman > Deacon Joseph Harriman
Really excellent work here, DustyWanderer.

I'll just tie a thread that's dangling here... if you go and look at what prominent Mormon is CURRENTLY on the Union Pacific board... it's an Eccles.

And Oaks served as a member of the Wilson council at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. That's a globalist organization if I've ever seen one.

So you start to see this pattern of associations - an insular group of people who all appear to be philosophically aligned (as observed through their activities)... rewarding each other not on the merit of their character, but because of their relationships to one another.

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:21 pm Okay, after a night of research, I think I'm pretty clear that Jon Bystrom is, at best, a sloppy writer.

Looks like a personal feud has blown up into something much bigger in his mind.

Doesn't make him wrong - just makes him extremely biased, and not a good source, except for claims that can be verified or falsified through other, less biased sources.

I feel for the man - I truly do. But even if he has a case, you have to be able to state your case clearly and compellingly, and he doesn't (in my opinion).

The sheer number of "coincidences" regarding what Bystrom talks about, and what AGF talked about, is the most interesting find of the night. This little subculture is something I was not aware of before reading the Railroad thread.
Perhaps.

It could simply mean that those the Gads minions fleese.

Are deliberately chosen because they are not likely to be able to resist.

Nor likely be believed.

After all.

"They" control ALL of the levers of power to which one would go to for help.

However.

I have learned.

That where there is smoke.

There is often fire.

So I always take the means to fight it with me.

In other words.

Be prepared to get burned.

Sir H

User avatar
tmac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4526
Location: Reality

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by tmac »

Chicago Connections?
DHO Obama 1.JPG
DHO Obama 1.JPG (36.62 KiB) Viewed 362 times
Last edited by tmac on December 3rd, 2022, 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

Brainstorming: establishing facts.

Maybe they are relevant.

Maybe not.

Names law firm where he worked in the fifties.

https://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/feder ... -oaks-jd57

Distance from Chicago to Rockford.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chicago ... 8f6780!3e0

Who is Kirton-McConkie?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirton_McConkie

Is this relevant? How?

https://www.deseret.com/2012/4/12/20501 ... t-law-firm

Haven't had time to view any:

https://m.youtube.com/@jonbystrom9410/videos

Seems to have been deleted:

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV ... DBYdQErHfd

Feel free to add others.

Lets answer the question:

Who is the real Dallin H.

Sir H
Last edited by HVDC on December 3rd, 2022, 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

tmac wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:24 amDHO Obama 1.JPG
Is Obama inside a temple in this picture?

Sir H

User avatar
tmac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4526
Location: Reality

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by tmac »

WHO IS THE REAL DALLIN H?

That is a great question!

User avatar
gkearney
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5346

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by gkearney »

HVDC wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:30 am
tmac wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:24 amDHO Obama 1.JPG
Is Obama inside a temple in this picture?

Sir H
No that’s the oval office in the White House.

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

How does Rockford Illinois fit into the picture.

Could this be a hint:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinoi ... ae873.html

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

tmac wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:32 am WHO IS THE REAL DALLIN H?

That is a great question!
Any way to find out his net worth?

Sir H

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

This has been discussed before, but let's put it here anyway:

https://rsc.byu.edu/prophets-apostles-l ... arris-oaks

Sir H

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

I have not been able to identify the Chicago Law Firm he worked at for three years.

And I don't have time right now to keep looking.

Does anyone know?

"...Elder Oaks was able to obtain a coveted position as law clerk to Earl Warren, chief justice of the United States Supreme Court. Returning to Chicago, he practiced corporate law for three years and then became a professor at the prestigious law school from which he had received his degree. Over the next ten years he distinguished himself as a teacher and scholar and also served as associate and acting dean and as executive director of the American Bar Foundation. In 1971, Elder Oaks was appointed president of Brigham Young University..."

Sir H

User avatar
tmac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4526
Location: Reality

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by tmac »

HVDC wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:51 am I have not been able to identify the Chicago Law Firm he worked at for three years.

And I don't have time right now to keep looking.

Does anyone know?

"...Elder Oaks was able to obtain a coveted position as law clerk to Earl Warren, chief justice of the United States Supreme Court. Returning to Chicago, he practiced corporate law for three years and then became a professor at the prestigious law school from which he had received his degree. Over the next ten years he distinguished himself as a teacher and scholar and also served as associate and acting dean and as executive director of the American Bar Foundation. In 1971, Elder Oaks was appointed president of Brigham Young University..."

Sir H
Kirkland, Ellis, Hodson, Chaffetz & Masters, otherwise usually referred to simply as Kirkland, Ellis -- which obviously served as a great springboard for many of his elitist connections. It is fair to say that DHO did not necessarily come from an elite background, but he very, very quickly developed a multitude of elitist connections.
Last edited by tmac on December 3rd, 2022, 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by HVDC »

tmac wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 8:00 am
HVDC wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:51 am I have not been able to identify the Chicago Law Firm he worked at for three years.

And I don't have time right now to keep looking.

Does anyone know?

"...Elder Oaks was able to obtain a coveted position as law clerk to Earl Warren, chief justice of the United States Supreme Court. Returning to Chicago, he practiced corporate law for three years and then became a professor at the prestigious law school from which he had received his degree. Over the next ten years he distinguished himself as a teacher and scholar and also served as associate and acting dean and as executive director of the American Bar Foundation. In 1971, Elder Oaks was appointed president of Brigham Young University..."

Sir H
Kirkland, Ellis, Hodson, Chaffetz & Masters, otherwise usually referred to simply as Kirkland, Ellis -- which obvious served as a great springboard for many of his elitist connections. It is fair to say that DHO did not necessarily come from an elite background, but he very, very quickly developed a multitude of elitist connections.
That's right.

I think that fact is very important.

Also that is seems to be skipped over from normal church sources.

Thanks.

Sir H

User avatar
Pazooka
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5222
Location: FEMA District 8

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by Pazooka »

gkearney wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:39 am
HVDC wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:30 am
tmac wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:24 amDHO Obama 1.JPG
Is Obama inside a temple in this picture?

Sir H
No that’s the oval office in the White House.
But look at how the picture was taken - placing Obama in the frame of the window with the shell of the goddess Venus at his crown. Haven’t you noticed that so many of Obama’s pics are stylized? That’s what I thought was being asked by “Is Obama inside a temple” - because the column-like sides of the window with the heading at top are representative of a temple. Prolly just faces in rocks, though.

User avatar
FoxMammaWisdom
The Heretic
Posts: 3778
Location: I think and I know things.

Re: A Global Faith and Working on the Railroad - Unraveling One of the Most Interesting Threads To Appear On LDSFF

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

endlessismyname wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 8:57 pm And one last, really weird, connection for tonight:

Oaks did serve on the board of The Rockford Institute, from 1980-2000, as can be seen from my post above.

The Rockford Institute, at first glance, is just a weird blip on the map. It was small, not all that influential, and went away fairly quickly.

It's weird, because it was supposedly what all the sites call a "paleoconservative" organization. Paleoconservativism is defined as:

"a person who advocates old or traditional forms of conservatism; an extremely right-wing conservative."

So you've got Oaks, who's on the board of PBS - one of the most left leaning organizations in the world, and also on the board of The Rockford Institute, supposedly one of the most right leaning institutions in the world.

But when you look at Rockford, you see one of it's major activities was running the John Randolph Club.

Who was John Randolph? Here's where it gets weird:

"Randolph suffered from a condition that hindered his maturation, perhaps Klinefelter's Syndrome. He never had a beard and his famous orator's voice was high pitched, some said womanly. Steve Vogel describes Randolph this way:

'Randolph's small head, raised shoulders, tiny waist, and long, thin legs gave him the look of a crane, and appearance made all the more pronounced by his clothing, usually a swallowtail coat adorned with a white cravat in which he would bury his neck.'"

and this:

'"Timothy Stanley wrote in The American Conservative that:

"John Randolph of Roanoke was everything the modern conservative might despise: aristocratic, sexually ambiguous, occasionally irreligious, anti-party, and the sworn enemy of military adventurism. His personality suggests he might have had more in common with the late Gore Vidal than Sarah Palin. Yet Randolph still stands out as one of the most important conservative thinkers of the generation after the Founding Fathers."
K. A. Muston wrote in the Daily Kos that "The man represents the tap root of two great branches in American conservative politics, patrician conservatives and gay conservatives; because if John Randolph wasn’t gay, then neither was Roy Cohen."'

and this:

'"When I was in Richmond a few days since," said Mr. Ridgely Howard of Baltimore to a representative of the Washington Star at the New Willard, "I made one of those bad breaks which prove so embarrassing. I was a guest of a member of the crack Westmoreland club, and after a slight repast I was escorted through the building for the purpose of viewing the pictures, relics of the civil war, -etc. During the tour mentioned my attention was particularly attracted to the portrait of what I took to be a very handsome brunette. I incidentally remarked to my host that the young lady was quite pretty, when, with a low chuckle, he replied, 'Yes, quite pretty, but as a matter of fact the picture represents John Randolph of Roanoke at 18.' You also smile, but let me explain how I was caught. The hair was parted in the middle and neatly combed back of the ears; the features were of a purely feminine mold, and the expression of the eyes and face was so shy and bashful that you will readily understand how I was deceived. One can hardly conceive, looking at the portrait of Randolph at the age represented, that he could ever grow into the cynical and disagreeable creature he is reported to have been in his later years. If he ever had love affairs which went wrong I have never heard of them. As near as I can learn he never had any real ardent affection for any woman except his mother, who, it is said, was beautiful, and whom it is also said he closely resembled in beauty as a child."'

So this small, weird "paleoconservative" organization ran a club named after - John Randolph? And Dallin H. Oaks, who by this time was rather influential, decided to sit on their Board of Directors (which is strange in and of itself because I don't think "paleoconservatives" are all that fond of Mormons as a general rule)?

Um, okay.

@FoxMammaWisdom - wanna do some analysis on John Randolph? There are several portraits here:

http://allenbrowne.blogspot.com/2016/01 ... anoke.html

EDIT: I just want to point out, finds like this are why rummaging through the trash, while not pleasant, is sometimes important.

EDIT TWO: I missed a critical quote from the article. It's been a long night:

"It seems Randolph was not gay, he was more or less asexual due to his lack of physical development. Stanley quotes Bill Kauffman that “Dr. Francis West conducted a post-mortem examination of Randolph and recorded that the ‘scrotum was scarcely at all developed,’ with only a right testicle ‘the size of a small bean.’” We might say that John Randolph of Roanoke was neither a heterosexual nor a homosexual but falls somewhere else in the LGBT spectrum."
Me = screaming out loud as I read about what liars they are fabricating history like the part about the disease that made him like a woman....... 😱🤬🙄

Yes I would love to check this one out!!🤔🧐🤓

Post Reply