Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

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logonbump
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by logonbump »

cab wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 6:22 am
logonbump wrote: November 21st, 2022, 7:06 am
ransomme wrote: November 21st, 2022, 5:46 am
logonbump wrote: November 21st, 2022, 4:28 am Almost certainly he was abused and a victim of the mind control cult, was trained and set up for this act. His LDS status only confirms it to me. I wonder what his proximity to a military base was?
Obviously not trained, and has no sense. There are many better plans and ways to target fish in a barrel like that, so I can't see how they are in their right mind.
Not trained like a gangster to get away with it, but empowered to pull of a hoax and take the fall as a patsy, you know?

Any evidence this is a hoax?
Not a hoax if the man acted alone. However, these types rarely act alone. These crimes are designed for a specific outcome and are not simply natural outgrowths of religion-motivated intolerance.
Sunain wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 5:22 am All this is going to do is make the church get even more cozy with LGBT+ people. It's almost like this was planned as there are 2 more senate votes left on the Gay Marriage Bill and opposition within the church and against Mitt Romney was increasing.

Now, with a bunch of gay people killed by a mormon, church members can't keep fighting to stop this bill because it's 'insensitive', 'bigoted' and a 'hate crime'. Nope, no conspiracy theories here, just convenient circumstances!

It's like higelian dialectic, because it demands a specific response at a news story.
Last edited by logonbump on November 22nd, 2022, 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

logonbump
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by logonbump »

Lizzy60 wrote: November 21st, 2022, 7:13 pm The pro-gay marriage LDS are 100% blaming church teachings for the actions of this young man, whether or not he is currently active, because they blame the toxic things he learned in church and his home.
Has anyone seen r/mormon or r/exmormon recently? Reddit is having a Mormon meltdown over this story!

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cab
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by cab »

logonbump wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:59 am
cab wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 6:22 am
logonbump wrote: November 21st, 2022, 7:06 am
ransomme wrote: November 21st, 2022, 5:46 am

Obviously not trained, and has no sense. There are many better plans and ways to target fish in a barrel like that, so I can't see how they are in their right mind.
Not trained like a gangster to get away with it, but empowered to pull of a hoax and take the fall as a patsy, you know?

Any evidence this is a hoax?
Not a hoax if the man acted alone. However, these types rarely act alone. These crimes are designed for a specific outcome and are not simply natural outgrowths of religion-motivated intolerance.
Sunain wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 5:22 am All this is going to do is make the church get even more cozy with LGBT+ people. It's almost like this was planned as there are 2 more senate votes left on the Gay Marriage Bill and opposition within the church and against Mitt Romney was increasing.

Now, with a bunch of gay people killed by a mormon, church members can't keep fighting to stop this bill because it's 'insensitive', 'bigoted' and a 'hate crime'. Nope, no conspiracy theories here, just convenient circumstances!

It's like higelian dialectic, because it demands a specific response at a news story.

Right. But a hoax and a false flag are two separate things.
If people died it wasn’t a hoax, but could still be a FF.

tribrac
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by tribrac »

Uh-oh narrative flip.

Suspect is inactive LDS, but also Non-binary.

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crabman
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by crabman »

tribrac wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 9:16 pm Uh-oh narrative flip.

Suspect is inactive LDS, but also Non-binary.
Yep, not really a surprise. Per the Daily
Wire:

The 22-year-old suspect who allegedly killed five and wounded 17 others after opening fire inside a gay nightclub in Colorado last week identifies as non-binary and uses They/Them pronouns, according to court documents.

New York Times reporter Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs obtained a new court filing Tuesday night showing public defenders referring to their client as Mx.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by BeNotDeceived »

tribrac wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 9:16 pm Uh-oh narrative flip.

Suspect is inactive LDS, but also Non-binary.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 291938/pg1
Thread: Breaking: Colorado shooter identifies as non-Binary

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Aaaaaand it's gone

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h_p
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by h_p »

tribrac wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 9:16 pm Uh-oh narrative flip.

Suspect is inactive LDS, but also Non-binary.
You can hear the actual disappointment in CNN's voices. This should be the last time we hear about this one, I guess:
"You mean we can't use this to club conservatives over the head with anymore?"

tribrac
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by tribrac »

Don't worry, they will pivot from 'conservatives are violent' to 'conservative teachings make LGBTQ kids hurt themselves and others.'

downaletter
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by downaletter »

There is absolutely no documented history of Aldrich’s gender identity being non-binary or Aldrich’s preferred pronouns being they/them. What we do know about Anderson Lee Aldrich suggests that Aldrich identifies as a male, uses he/him pronouns, and is a vicious homophobe that uses the anti-gay slur “f*ggot” constantly.

Aldrich’s mother describes Aldrich as her son and describes Aldrich with he/him pronouns. So do Aldrich’s other relatives. So does Aldrich’s friends. So does Aldrich’s neighbors.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1 ... o-know-him

I don't personally trust what this shooter, or any shooter says at all. It just seems he's claiming he his non-binary to get out of a hate crime.

Letfreedumbring
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by Letfreedumbring »

downaletter wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 1:38 pm
I don't personally trust what this shooter, or any shooter says at all. It just seems he's claiming he his non-binary to get out of a hate crime.
The preferred pronouns are not/guilty.

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cab
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

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Preferred predicates are “raised-in-a-highdemand-fundamentalist-religion with-high-empasis on works and shame and manworship.”

downaletter
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by downaletter »

Image

Here's our suspect. Totally non-binary....right.

His dad's interview today is also a bit insane. Too much meth.

https://youtu.be/0f6TXdNXcWk
Father: “I’m a Mormon. I’m a conservative Republican. We don’t do gay.”

Reporter: 'Well your son is accused of a mass shooting at a gay bar killing five people’

Father: ‘….w-w-well there’s no ‘scuse for that i’m just glad he’s not gay.’

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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

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farmerchick
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by farmerchick »

It's been reported that both parents have had mental health/drug issues and the dad did a stint in the porn business....soooo idk how the mormon republican who doesn't do gay has room to say anything. The parents divorced early on in the child's life and he was raised by maternal grandparents......There is alot going on behind the scenes of this mormon family I'd say....supposedly from what I read the non binary they/them prounoun user has been disturbed for some time now......these people are all nut Jobs...
Last edited by farmerchick on November 24th, 2022, 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joan7
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by Joan7 »

farmerchick wrote: November 24th, 2022, 4:09 pm It's been reported that that both parents have had mental health/drug issues and the dad did a stint in the porn business....soooo idk how the mormon republican who doesn't do gay has room to say anything. The parents divorced early on in the child's life and he was raised by maternal grandparents......There is alot going on behind the scenes of this mormon family I'd say....supposedly from what I read the non binary they/them prounoun user has been disturbed for some time now......these people are all nut Jobs...
"The sins of the children will be on the heads of the parents."

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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by Joan7 »

I see trouble coming.

His father said: "You know Mormons don't do gay. We don't do gay. There's no gays in the Mormon church. We don't do gay," Brink said.

When the media pair that up with the shooter, there is going to be a backlash that is unbelievable.

downaletter
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by downaletter »

farmerchick wrote: November 24th, 2022, 4:09 pm It's been reported that that both parents have had mental health/drug issues and the dad did a stint in the porn business....soooo idk how the mormon republican who doesn't do gay has room to say anything. The parents divorced early on in the child's life and he was raised by maternal grandparents......There is alot going on behind the scenes of this mormon family I'd say....supposedly from what I read the non binary they/them prounoun user has been disturbed for some time now......these people are all nut Jobs...
Yeah I don't want to minimize what the shooter did at all, but hell...if your parents are like that, it's no wonder he's mentally unwell.

farmerchick
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by farmerchick »

I also forgot to mention that the republican mormon "no gay here" dad was also in and out of jail..and was told by the mother that his son who he never saw was dead....then out of the blue the adult son calls up the dad to tell him he was alive and a few other things...lol......you can't make this stuff up...thats when the mormon republican "no gay here" dad knew his son was still alive......so there is that.....smh....what did these procreators think was going to happen with their offspring?......the whole mormon aspect of it is quite sketchy....but as we know the church casts a wide net.....looks like this guy was well fed and had alot of time to think about how he was going to ruin they/thems life.....almost nothing surprises me anymore...

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harakim
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by harakim »

tribrac wrote: November 21st, 2022, 11:47 am If it is the same person, and he is LDS I have no idea what he ever heard in church that made him think this was anything other than grievous sin in God's eyes. OT says thou shalt not kill. NT says love your enemies. Nothing in the Book of Mormon supports aggressive violence.

Also, it shows how far we are down the road of culture warfare that immediately his culture preferences are discovered and published with the implication that his associations should also be punished.

I hope our country is able to back up from violence.
Keep hoping, but you better make alternate plans. Have I mentioned Wild Wisdom of Weeds by Katrina Blair? :lol:

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harakim
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by harakim »

Thinker wrote: November 21st, 2022, 9:53 pm
tribrac wrote: November 21st, 2022, 11:47 am…. Nothing in the Book of Mormon supports aggressive violence.
What this guy did was horrifically wrong. It was also wrong having minors at the club.

Still… the B of M has too much aggressive violence especially to be encouraged “daily reading”…

*Whoever didn’t support Moroni’s “free government” was killed.” -Alma 46:35 & Alma 62:10
*Those who tried to flee were killed. Alma 62:25-26
*They killed +2,000 Lamanites AFTER the Lamanites “surrendered themselves prisoners of war.” -Alma 57:14


“John W. Welch has identified at least 15 major wars or conflicts that spanned the history of Book of Mormon peoples (see chart below).1 A fair portion of the book of Alma (Alma 2–3, 16, 24–25, 43–62) sometimes provides excruciating details concerning the wars between the Lamanites and Nephites. Unforgettable is the tragic downfall of the Nephites at the battle of Cumorah, which resulted in unparalleled death and carnage (Mormon 1–6).”
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... -of-mormon
There is no question that there is violence in the Book of Mormon. To say it has too much violence to be encouraged daily reading is interesting. The bedrock of our entire society is violence. It is the root influence which supports all the others. If a party in a dispute fails to achieve its objectives, it will likely turn to violence. The larger the party, the more capable of violence, and the more likely it is to turn to violence. I don't want to belabor the point, but most of our society is built on fear and threats and if other forms of threats go unheeded, it will ultimately end in the threat of violence.

I would not so lightly dismiss a book and say it's not readable because it talks about the foundations of large human societies, the very thing which subtly guides so many of our thoughts and actions. If you don't want to see the truth, you don't have to, but you'll be the poorer for it.

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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by Thinker »

harakim wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 11:04 pm
Thinker wrote: November 21st, 2022, 9:53 pm
tribrac wrote: November 21st, 2022, 11:47 am…. Nothing in the Book of Mormon supports aggressive violence.
What this guy did was horrifically wrong. It was also wrong having minors at the club.

Still… the B of M has too much aggressive violence especially to be encouraged “daily reading”…

*Whoever didn’t support Moroni’s “free government” was killed.” -Alma 46:35 & Alma 62:10
*Those who tried to flee were killed. Alma 62:25-26
*They killed +2,000 Lamanites AFTER the Lamanites “surrendered themselves prisoners of war.” -Alma 57:14


“John W. Welch has identified at least 15 major wars or conflicts that spanned the history of Book of Mormon peoples (see chart below).1 A fair portion of the book of Alma (Alma 2–3, 16, 24–25, 43–62) sometimes provides excruciating details concerning the wars between the Lamanites and Nephites. Unforgettable is the tragic downfall of the Nephites at the battle of Cumorah, which resulted in unparalleled death and carnage (Mormon 1–6).”
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... -of-mormon
There is no question that there is violence in the Book of Mormon. To say it has too much violence to be encouraged daily reading is interesting. The bedrock of our entire society is violence. It is the root influence which supports all the others. If a party in a dispute fails to achieve its objectives, it will likely turn to violence. The larger the party, the more capable of violence, and the more likely it is to turn to violence. I don't want to belabor the point, but most of our society is built on fear and threats and if other forms of threats go unheeded, it will ultimately end in the threat of violence.

I would not so lightly dismiss a book and say it's not readable because it talks about the foundations of large human societies, the very thing which subtly guides so many of our thoughts and actions. If you don't want to see the truth, you don't have to, but you'll be the poorer for it.
If we weren’t in the midst of psychological warfare using religion, I might not bother posting criticism, but we are.

I strongly believe that we ought to seek truth wherever it’s found - but truth is not handed to us on silver platters. As Thomas Jefferson suggested about the NT, we must dig through dung to get to diamonds. I’d say that applies to pretty much everything including the BofM. This is NOT to suggest discarding the BofM, but rather to remember “there must needs be opposition in all things” including scripture, so take the best, leave the rest. Intelligence: “to choose between.”

Let’s get a few things out in the open:
What exactly is the Book of Mormon comprised of?
Some interesting “coincidences” that smell like plagiarism…

Image

Image

Image

This wouldn’t upload: Moroni 7 from 1Corinthians 13… http://utlm.org/images/newsletters/no63_p4.gif

Image

Any of the following sound familiar…?

“Happiness is the meaning & the purpose of life.” -Aristotle
“...business of man is to be happy.” - John Locke

“Better the whole people perish than that injustice be done.” -Kant

“… the Christian Churches having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, came into the hands of the Encratites: and the Heathens…” - Isaac Newton


So… there’s a high possibility that the BofM is more similar to everyday literature & maybe shouldn’t be prioritized above all as if one is falling for it being set up as the unique golden calf marketing tool of Mormonism.

You might argue, “Well, even if it borrowed from other sources, they are true and good.” And I wouldn’t refute that, but consider
maybe there are better things to read daily which do not involve excess justified violence mixed in with the good & truth. There are dysfunctional aspects in it - and sins of omission. It’s hard to see when we’re indoctrinated not to. You’re right that this world is violent etc., but the BofM is like the bad nightly news on tv - just gets people worked up without providing the way for better. Yes, in other places it talks about God and Christ, but as I pointed out before, several scriptures paint violence as good and godly when it isn’t. Portraying violence is only godly when showing it in moral context, which the BofM doesn’t but does the opposite.

For more:
Scriptures: good & bad viewtopic.php?p=994183&hilit=Scriptures#p994183

Rethinking Thinking viewtopic.php?p=256839&hilit=Thinking#p256839

Joan7
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by Joan7 »

Thinker wrote: December 7th, 2022, 4:01 pm
harakim wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 11:04 pm
Thinker wrote: November 21st, 2022, 9:53 pm
tribrac wrote: November 21st, 2022, 11:47 am…. Nothing in the Book of Mormon supports aggressive violence.
What this guy did was horrifically wrong. It was also wrong having minors at the club.

Still… the B of M has too much aggressive violence especially to be encouraged “daily reading”…

*Whoever didn’t support Moroni’s “free government” was killed.” -Alma 46:35 & Alma 62:10
*Those who tried to flee were killed. Alma 62:25-26
*They killed +2,000 Lamanites AFTER the Lamanites “surrendered themselves prisoners of war.” -Alma 57:14


“John W. Welch has identified at least 15 major wars or conflicts that spanned the history of Book of Mormon peoples (see chart below).1 A fair portion of the book of Alma (Alma 2–3, 16, 24–25, 43–62) sometimes provides excruciating details concerning the wars between the Lamanites and Nephites. Unforgettable is the tragic downfall of the Nephites at the battle of Cumorah, which resulted in unparalleled death and carnage (Mormon 1–6).”
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... -of-mormon
There is no question that there is violence in the Book of Mormon. To say it has too much violence to be encouraged daily reading is interesting. The bedrock of our entire society is violence. It is the root influence which supports all the others. If a party in a dispute fails to achieve its objectives, it will likely turn to violence. The larger the party, the more capable of violence, and the more likely it is to turn to violence. I don't want to belabor the point, but most of our society is built on fear and threats and if other forms of threats go unheeded, it will ultimately end in the threat of violence.

I would not so lightly dismiss a book and say it's not readable because it talks about the foundations of large human societies, the very thing which subtly guides so many of our thoughts and actions. If you don't want to see the truth, you don't have to, but you'll be the poorer for it.
If we weren’t in the midst of psychological warfare using religion, I might not bother posting criticism, but we are.

I strongly believe that we ought to seek truth wherever it’s found - but truth is not handed to us on silver platters. As Thomas Jefferson suggested about the NT, we must dig through dung to get to diamonds. I’d say that applies to pretty much everything including the BofM. This is NOT to suggest discarding the BofM, but rather to remember “there must needs be opposition in all things” including scripture, so take the best, leave the rest. Intelligence: “to choose between.”

Let’s get a few things out in the open:
What exactly is the Book of Mormon comprised of?
Some interesting “coincidences” that smell like plagiarism…

Image

Image

Image

This wouldn’t upload: Moroni 7 from 1Corinthians 13… http://utlm.org/images/newsletters/no63_p4.gif

Image

Any of the following sound familiar…?

“Happiness is the meaning & the purpose of life.” -Aristotle
“...business of man is to be happy.” - John Locke

“Better the whole people perish than that injustice be done.” -Kant

“… the Christian Churches having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, came into the hands of the Encratites: and the Heathens…” - Isaac Newton


So… there’s a high possibility that the BofM is more similar to everyday literature & maybe shouldn’t be prioritized above all as if one is falling for it being set up as the unique golden calf marketing tool of Mormonism.

You might argue, “Well, even if it borrowed from other sources, they are true and good.” And I wouldn’t refute that, but consider
maybe there are better things to read daily which do not involve excess justified violence mixed in with the good & truth. There are dysfunctional aspects in it - and sins of omission. It’s hard to see when we’re indoctrinated not to. You’re right that this world is violent etc., but the BofM is like the bad nightly news on tv - just gets people worked up without providing the way for better. Yes, in other places it talks about God and Christ, but as I pointed out before, several scriptures paint violence as good and godly when it isn’t. Portraying violence is only godly when showing it in moral context, which the BofM doesn’t but does the opposite.

For more:
Scriptures: good & bad viewtopic.php?p=994183&hilit=Scriptures#p994183

Rethinking Thinking viewtopic.php?p=256839&hilit=Thinking#p256839
Do I need to point out that Lucifer knows what was written in that Sacred volume? Would he, or would he not tell other writers what they should write?

The intended audience of the Book of Mormon is going to endure great wars and death on every hand. Do you not think it is wise to prepare your children for this devastation, so that they are less likely to be overcome?

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harakim
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by harakim »

Thinker wrote: December 7th, 2022, 4:01 pm
harakim wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 11:04 pm
Thinker wrote: November 21st, 2022, 9:53 pm
tribrac wrote: November 21st, 2022, 11:47 am…. Nothing in the Book of Mormon supports aggressive violence.
What this guy did was horrifically wrong. It was also wrong having minors at the club.

Still… the B of M has too much aggressive violence especially to be encouraged “daily reading”…

*Whoever didn’t support Moroni’s “free government” was killed.” -Alma 46:35 & Alma 62:10
*Those who tried to flee were killed. Alma 62:25-26
*They killed +2,000 Lamanites AFTER the Lamanites “surrendered themselves prisoners of war.” -Alma 57:14


“John W. Welch has identified at least 15 major wars or conflicts that spanned the history of Book of Mormon peoples (see chart below).1 A fair portion of the book of Alma (Alma 2–3, 16, 24–25, 43–62) sometimes provides excruciating details concerning the wars between the Lamanites and Nephites. Unforgettable is the tragic downfall of the Nephites at the battle of Cumorah, which resulted in unparalleled death and carnage (Mormon 1–6).”
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... -of-mormon
There is no question that there is violence in the Book of Mormon. To say it has too much violence to be encouraged daily reading is interesting. The bedrock of our entire society is violence. It is the root influence which supports all the others. If a party in a dispute fails to achieve its objectives, it will likely turn to violence. The larger the party, the more capable of violence, and the more likely it is to turn to violence. I don't want to belabor the point, but most of our society is built on fear and threats and if other forms of threats go unheeded, it will ultimately end in the threat of violence.

I would not so lightly dismiss a book and say it's not readable because it talks about the foundations of large human societies, the very thing which subtly guides so many of our thoughts and actions. If you don't want to see the truth, you don't have to, but you'll be the poorer for it.
If we weren’t in the midst of psychological warfare using religion, I might not bother posting criticism, but we are.

I strongly believe that we ought to seek truth wherever it’s found - but truth is not handed to us on silver platters. As Thomas Jefferson suggested about the NT, we must dig through dung to get to diamonds. I’d say that applies to pretty much everything including the BofM. This is NOT to suggest discarding the BofM, but rather to remember “there must needs be opposition in all things” including scripture, so take the best, leave the rest. Intelligence: “to choose between.”

Let’s get a few things out in the open:
What exactly is the Book of Mormon comprised of?
Some interesting “coincidences” that smell like plagiarism…

Image

Image

Image

This wouldn’t upload: Moroni 7 from 1Corinthians 13… http://utlm.org/images/newsletters/no63_p4.gif

Image

Any of the following sound familiar…?

“Happiness is the meaning & the purpose of life.” -Aristotle
“...business of man is to be happy.” - John Locke

“Better the whole people perish than that injustice be done.” -Kant

“… the Christian Churches having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, came into the hands of the Encratites: and the Heathens…” - Isaac Newton


So… there’s a high possibility that the BofM is more similar to everyday literature & maybe shouldn’t be prioritized above all as if one is falling for it being set up as the unique golden calf marketing tool of Mormonism.

You might argue, “Well, even if it borrowed from other sources, they are true and good.” And I wouldn’t refute that, but consider
maybe there are better things to read daily which do not involve excess justified violence mixed in with the good & truth. There are dysfunctional aspects in it - and sins of omission. It’s hard to see when we’re indoctrinated not to. You’re right that this world is violent etc., but the BofM is like the bad nightly news on tv - just gets people worked up without providing the way for better. Yes, in other places it talks about God and Christ, but as I pointed out before, several scriptures paint violence as good and godly when it isn’t. Portraying violence is only godly when showing it in moral context, which the BofM doesn’t but does the opposite.

For more:
Scriptures: good & bad viewtopic.php?p=994183&hilit=Scriptures#p994183

Rethinking Thinking viewtopic.php?p=256839&hilit=Thinking#p256839
There is no doubt that there is other good literature out there. I am on my fifth book in the last 2 weeks. Each of them spoke to me. However, I think the Book of Mormon has its place.

I feel like it stands alone as a book that was written long ago, which we have had continual record of as it was popular, which talks about the secret combinations. I would dare say that the majority of conspiracy theorists who are uncovering the truth were either directly driven by the Book of Mormon or were influence by people who were. It's hard to believe that a civilization could collapse so quickly, but if you've read the Book of Mormon, you see the signs. The lockdowns were not a shock. Letting cartels into the country freely is not a shock. The entire west support Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union on one hand while calling it evil on the other is not a shock. And so people who have read the Book of Mormon are willing to believe it. Others are definitely also willing to believe, it but it's much less likely. I think it boils down to something Hitler identified:
"in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation."

The Book of Mormon opens the mind of a good person to the possibility of vast conspiracy and the wanton disregard for human life that is possible.

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harakim
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Re: Club Q Colorado shooting suspect is LDS

Post by harakim »

Thinker wrote: December 7th, 2022, 4:01 pm
harakim wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 11:04 pm
Thinker wrote: November 21st, 2022, 9:53 pm
tribrac wrote: November 21st, 2022, 11:47 am…. Nothing in the Book of Mormon supports aggressive violence.
What this guy did was horrifically wrong. It was also wrong having minors at the club.

Still… the B of M has too much aggressive violence especially to be encouraged “daily reading”…

*Whoever didn’t support Moroni’s “free government” was killed.” -Alma 46:35 & Alma 62:10
*Those who tried to flee were killed. Alma 62:25-26
*They killed +2,000 Lamanites AFTER the Lamanites “surrendered themselves prisoners of war.” -Alma 57:14


“John W. Welch has identified at least 15 major wars or conflicts that spanned the history of Book of Mormon peoples (see chart below).1 A fair portion of the book of Alma (Alma 2–3, 16, 24–25, 43–62) sometimes provides excruciating details concerning the wars between the Lamanites and Nephites. Unforgettable is the tragic downfall of the Nephites at the battle of Cumorah, which resulted in unparalleled death and carnage (Mormon 1–6).”
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... -of-mormon
There is no question that there is violence in the Book of Mormon. To say it has too much violence to be encouraged daily reading is interesting. The bedrock of our entire society is violence. It is the root influence which supports all the others. If a party in a dispute fails to achieve its objectives, it will likely turn to violence. The larger the party, the more capable of violence, and the more likely it is to turn to violence. I don't want to belabor the point, but most of our society is built on fear and threats and if other forms of threats go unheeded, it will ultimately end in the threat of violence.

I would not so lightly dismiss a book and say it's not readable because it talks about the foundations of large human societies, the very thing which subtly guides so many of our thoughts and actions. If you don't want to see the truth, you don't have to, but you'll be the poorer for it.
If we weren’t in the midst of psychological warfare using religion, I might not bother posting criticism, but we are.

I strongly believe that we ought to seek truth wherever it’s found - but truth is not handed to us on silver platters. As Thomas Jefferson suggested about the NT, we must dig through dung to get to diamonds. I’d say that applies to pretty much everything including the BofM. This is NOT to suggest discarding the BofM, but rather to remember “there must needs be opposition in all things” including scripture, so take the best, leave the rest. Intelligence: “to choose between.”

Let’s get a few things out in the open:
What exactly is the Book of Mormon comprised of?
Some interesting “coincidences” that smell like plagiarism…

Image

Image

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This wouldn’t upload: Moroni 7 from 1Corinthians 13… http://utlm.org/images/newsletters/no63_p4.gif

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Any of the following sound familiar…?

“Happiness is the meaning & the purpose of life.” -Aristotle
“...business of man is to be happy.” - John Locke

“Better the whole people perish than that injustice be done.” -Kant

“… the Christian Churches having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, came into the hands of the Encratites: and the Heathens…” - Isaac Newton


So… there’s a high possibility that the BofM is more similar to everyday literature & maybe shouldn’t be prioritized above all as if one is falling for it being set up as the unique golden calf marketing tool of Mormonism.

You might argue, “Well, even if it borrowed from other sources, they are true and good.” And I wouldn’t refute that, but consider
maybe there are better things to read daily which do not involve excess justified violence mixed in with the good & truth. There are dysfunctional aspects in it - and sins of omission. It’s hard to see when we’re indoctrinated not to. You’re right that this world is violent etc., but the BofM is like the bad nightly news on tv - just gets people worked up without providing the way for better. Yes, in other places it talks about God and Christ, but as I pointed out before, several scriptures paint violence as good and godly when it isn’t. Portraying violence is only godly when showing it in moral context, which the BofM doesn’t but does the opposite.

For more:
Scriptures: good & bad viewtopic.php?p=994183&hilit=Scriptures#p994183

Rethinking Thinking viewtopic.php?p=256839&hilit=Thinking#p256839
Have you looked at your comparison between the Late War and the Book of Mormon? It's clever, because it's an image so it's hard to quote. And if one hadn't read it, the highlighting would make it look like there are similarities. However, the similarities are so weak as to be coincidental.

The first example:
And the small band of brothers who fought desperately, and the slaughter was dreadful, and the slaughter was dreadful; and the pure snow of heaven was sprinkled and stained with the blood of men

This supposedly similar to:
But behold my little bland of two thousand and sixty fought most desperately; yeah, they were firm before the Lamanites, and did administer death unto all those who opposed them...

This has small band and little band highlighted. Immediately to mind I recalled:
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.

...
But we in it shall be remembered—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

It is true that there is more than one work written about fighting for one's country. If one perspective on a subject would suffice, writers would have nothing to write about anymore.

Your comparison also has many common adjectives of the day highlighted which were used in some variation in both, though it looks like the criteria is not that they are used in the same place or even in a similar sentence but that they exist somewhere in each work. What about the fact the Late War mentions snow and the Book of Mormon never mentions snow? To me, when I was young, that was one of the defining characteristics of the Book of Mormon against the other years-long stories I'd read. That seems like a far more meaningful connection than the fact both works use dauntless somewhere in them.

I'm not asking you to believe the Book of Mormon is literally true or even that Joseph Smith came up with it all. I'm not even asking you to read it. I'm just saying you should understand that burying your head in the sand about violence because you yourself wouldn't commit violence is a sure way to be taken advantage of by it. Here is what Hitler had to say on the matter:
"in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation."

That strategy worked for the most infamous group of mass murderers in our time and it still works today. There is a group willing to do evil, they are secret, and they will stop at nothing to get power. And the Book of Mormon calls them out. If you can point to another work that calls them out as well that was around in Joseph's time, then I'd love to hear about it. That's when I'd agree the Book of Mormon is not essential to society, although I'd still argue it has been. The testimony of a book written long before the events it forecasts is a lot better than something written after those events became obvious. The very age of the book and it's forecast for the future are so prescient that it is hard to ignore.

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