Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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Being There
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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leaders of the church, and corrupt political leaders - again - fulfilling Isaiah.


Isaiah 1
Israel’s ancient apostasy typifies an end-time apostasy, with salvation reserved for some who repent


23 Your rulers are renegades, accomplices of robbers: with one accord they love bribes
and run after rewards;
they do not dispense justice to the fatherless, nor does the widow’s case come before them.


On a par with the ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s people (v 10; Isaiah 9:14-16), political leaders similarly come under condemnation. Persons in government, whose task is to protect society from predators, have turned into predators themselves. The would-be administrators of justice perpetrate injustice.
The most needy elements of society—the fatherless and widows, whose cause Jehovah advocates (v 17)—are neglected. People in leadership positions have degenerated into “renegades” and “robbers,” officials who violate others’ rights in order to gain their own ends (Isaiah 3:14-15; 5:23; 29:21).

21 How the faithful city has become a harlot!
She was filled with justice;righteousness made its abode in her,but now murderers.

Foreseeing his people’s imminent calamity because they choose not to repent, the prophet grieves for them, the word “How” characterizing a lament (Lamentations 1:1; 2:1; 4:1). In other words, the prophet is asking, “How could this tragedy have happened? How is it that this people didn’t repent in time? How could those who were once righteous become so wicked?” The term “harlot” attests to their broken covenant relationship with Jehovah their husband (Isaiah 57:3-13). Besides identifying a specific place, the term “city” represents Jehovah’s covenant people in general (Isaiah 45:13; 60:14).

She was filled with justice. Righteousness made her abode in her, but now murderers. “Justice” (mispat) and “righteousness” (sedeq)—the basis of all covenant blessings and the underpinnings of a law-abiding society—have given way to injustice and unrighteousness. The term “murderers” reiterates the level of wickedness to which Jehovah’s people have sunk. The term righteousness additionally identifies Jehovah’s end-time servant who acts as an exemplar of righteousness to Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 41:2, 25; 46:11-13) and whom Jehovah appoints to restore justice in the earth (Isaiah 42:1-4).


Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them,and those who are led are confused.


As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another.
Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12). Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

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Niemand
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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SLC's downtown seems to have been destroyed by bad planning. There shouldn't be any skyscrapers/high rises near the Temple for a start. No western European city would normally allow their historic centre piece to be so dominated by such ugly modern atrocities.

Dave62
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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Money seldom solves the homeless problem.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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Niemand wrote: November 20th, 2022, 2:52 am SLC's downtown seems to have been destroyed by bad planning. There shouldn't be any skyscrapers/high rises near the Temple for a start. No western European city would normally allow their historic centre piece to be so dominated by such ugly modern atrocities.
This was the first thing I noticed when I went to Temple Square. Really poor planning. It would never be allowed here. I live near York, and nothing is permitted to be built higher than the Minster (Cathedral). It's the same throughout Europe.
That monstrosity called the Church Office Building is as Prince Charles would say "a carbuncle" on the landscape.
A couple of years after I was at Temple Square I went to the Vatican. The difference can be summed up in one word... class.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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Dave62 wrote: November 20th, 2022, 3:43 am Money seldom solves the homeless problem.
It can solve the issue of a place to stay, but not the cause of the homelessness in the first place.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Niemand wrote: November 20th, 2022, 2:52 am SLC's downtown seems to have been destroyed by bad planning. There shouldn't be any skyscrapers/high rises near the Temple for a start. No western European city would normally allow their historic centre piece to be so dominated by such ugly modern atrocities.
I like the words Nephi chose: “fine sanctuary”
:)

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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The church is amassing all this wealth.... For what purpose?

So that they can build churches and temples that are scattered all over the world? This is not gathering Israel. "But they are saving it for later!" Later?? What happens later? Do we not know that money will be made worthless? How will they be able to continue to have Israel scattered while being broke as to the things they once hoarded?

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Robin Hood
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 20th, 2022, 7:32 am The church is amassing all this wealth.... For what purpose?

So that they can build churches and temples that are scattered all over the world? This is not gathering Israel. "But they are saving it for later!" Later?? What happens later? Do we not know that money will be made worthless? How will they be able to continue to have Israel scattered while being broke as to the things they once hoarded?
I think most of the church's wealth is in assets rather than money.
Even if money becomes worthless, things like land, buildings, farms, businesses etc will still have value, though not a monetary value.

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TheChristian
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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A certain Christian, the son of a poor man came into some money and so he prayed to his Lord Jesus as he wanted to give it to the poor and needy.....
Jesus told Him to go to a certain Charismatic Church in the nearbye city, that they were in need of money to continue their aid to the poor and the homeless of said city.
And so the man went forth unto the city and attended their mid week praise and fellowship meeting.
After all the prayers, praising and singing, one of their elders arose and said he felt impressed that people should get up and share a prophecy, a dream, a tongue or a testimony.......
An elderly man arose and he was in charge of the ministery to the homeless, the food bank and providing food for their daily meals in the church hall for the poor and also providing milk and baby essentials to the poor......
He spoke of a very vivid dream he had the night before.....
I dreamt I came into the church hall and there was no food, nor any essentials for the poor to be had, indeed the halls tables and cupboards were empty and all was in a total mess, disorganised.
And so I called apon the lord and said Lord, how can I feed the poor of this city today when I have nothing to feed them with and all is so disorganised and our cupboards are empty........
A gentle voice spoke to him in reply,
I the lord will provide, so worry yourself not, your cupboards will be filled and your tables will be laden with plenty"

The Christian went over to the man whom had this dream whom was the Minister for the poor, and gave him the money and said, this money is from Jesus, your dream has now been fullfilled, He has provided as He has promised...........
And both men rejoiced and praised the lord for His mercys.

Salt lake City needs such men of faith and charity....................
If you cannot look after the needs of your own, you will not look after the needs of a stranger...

Oft it is those that have sinned the most and have been shown great mercy by Jesus are the ones that truly show thanksgiving by the mercies and generousity they show unto others.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Robin Hood wrote: November 20th, 2022, 7:40 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 20th, 2022, 7:32 am The church is amassing all this wealth.... For what purpose?

So that they can build churches and temples that are scattered all over the world? This is not gathering Israel. "But they are saving it for later!" Later?? What happens later? Do we not know that money will be made worthless? How will they be able to continue to have Israel scattered while being broke as to the things they once hoarded?
I think most of the church's wealth is in assets rather than money.
Even if money becomes worthless, things like land, buildings, farms, businesses etc will still have value, though not a monetary value.
The stock portfolio of Ensign peak is between 130-150 billion. Readily accessible liquid assets. But I would agree that far more wealth is tied up in hard assets like land and other fine amenities.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Robin Hood wrote: November 20th, 2022, 7:40 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 20th, 2022, 7:32 am The church is amassing all this wealth.... For what purpose?

So that they can build churches and temples that are scattered all over the world? This is not gathering Israel. "But they are saving it for later!" Later?? What happens later? Do we not know that money will be made worthless? How will they be able to continue to have Israel scattered while being broke as to the things they once hoarded?
I think most of the church's wealth is in assets rather than money.
Even if money becomes worthless, things like land, buildings, farms, businesses etc will still have value, though not a monetary value.
Assets? New Jerusalem isn't going to be a huge ranch in Florida.

Zion won't be redeemed by money the second time.

Do the church leaders and members really think that they're going to have all this wealth and assets when Christ returns?
Last edited by InfoWarrior82 on November 20th, 2022, 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

HVDC
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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OurVoices wrote: November 19th, 2022, 4:03 pm
I am sure the real problem is the lack of enforcement of vagrancy laws.

You can thank the usual suspects for that.

Homelessness has many causes.

Mental illness being the primary one.

Drug use.

Runaways.

Bums.

Economic disenfranchisement is actually a small part of the whole.

Of course.

Everyone needs money.

Money is the god of this world.

But for most homeless.

It is a bandaid, not a cure.

And yeah.

Not to say that soup kitchens would be out of order.

But the first order of business is to bring back vagrancy laws so the police can sort out the wheat from the chaff.

But gods little darlings have a different goal in mind.

We are so lucky to have them.

They make our impotence seem inevitable.

Like the weather.

Sir H

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Niemand
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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Robin Hood wrote: November 20th, 2022, 6:12 am
Niemand wrote: November 20th, 2022, 2:52 am SLC's downtown seems to have been destroyed by bad planning. There shouldn't be any skyscrapers/high rises near the Temple for a start. No western European city would normally allow their historic centre piece to be so dominated by such ugly modern atrocities.
This was the first thing I noticed when I went to Temple Square. Really poor planning. It would never be allowed here. I live near York, and nothing is permitted to be built higher than the Minster (Cathedral). It's the same throughout Europe.
That monstrosity called the Church Office Building is as Prince Charles would say "a carbuncle" on the landscape.
A couple of years after I was at Temple Square I went to the Vatican. The difference can be summed up in one word... class.
There are a lot of things that can be said against the Church of Rome, especially the current Pope, but they do at least maintain their artistic and built history. Contrast that with the disgusting episode with the FP trying to destroy Minerva Teichert's murals. The Romans are also pretty excellent when it comes to post-war architecture. Even Paddy's Wigwam in Scouseland.

The CoB is a massive insult considering it is built by the LDS itself not a vindictive city council!

Even Stalin couldn't bring himself to pull down St. Basil's Cathedral in the Kremlin and the Russians – to their credit – rebuilt Christ the Saviour in Moscow. Even the Germans, despite their godless government, helped rebuild the beautiful Frauenkirche in Dresden after the Wall came down... one of the centrepieces of that city. (Yours truly donated an infinitesimal amount to help with that.)

What has all this got to do with homelessness? It proves that a city has got values that go beyond mere materialism and also create work.

HVDC
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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Funny aside to the topic.

For a while I blessed California with my presence.

While doing so.

The Church donated some portable buildings to be used for our minimal homeless problem.

Minimal because while we were adjacent to a large metropolitan area, the cost of living kept out most of the Riff Raff.

Our Stake was excited to show the community what Mormons can do to fix the virtually non problem.

They whipped out the clipboards and began assigning 24 hour watches to man the place.

Sir H worked a lot those days doing important things that actually greased the skids of civilization, so he really wasn't paying attention.

One day he received his assignment.

Uh, no.

He was not going to engage in such an obvious act of Social Justice Activism.

Shocked faces all around.

Why not? They asked.

I told them the Church didn't send those buildings here to take care of our homeless problem. But so they could send us their homeless problem.

I was never asked again.

Our homeless problem grew.

Because.

If you build it.

And give away free stuff.

They will come.

Are we stupid?

Yeah.

Sir H

OurVoices
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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So much compassion. Most of the homeless were abused as children to include CPS stealing them and being raped in foster care. And many are the pure in heart whose God's angels are rescuing while those who judge in their warm homes will not be rescued but will be nuked in the cities or worse.

HVDC
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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OurVoices wrote: November 20th, 2022, 9:53 am So much compassion. Most of the homeless were abused as children to include CPS stealing them and being raped in foster care. And many are the pure in heart whose God's angels are rescuing while those who judge in their warm homes will not be rescued but will be nuked in the cities or worse.
I have been homeless.

I have stood in food lines.

I slept mostly in cars not the ground.

I know who and what the homeless population is made up of.

At least on the West Coast.

Most are mentally I'll.

Yes, some are from abusive situations.

But many are not.

Many are just lazy.

Many lack structure.

You cannot fix their long term probems with just food and shelter.

It goes much deeper than that.

Bring back vagrancy laws.

Arrest and funnel them into appropriate venues.

That will solve the homeless problem.

Misapplied and misguided compassion is only kicking the can down the road.

I don't think anyone is going to be nuked; at least not on any large scale.

They have something else in mind.

Sir H

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darknesstolight
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

Post by darknesstolight »

Dave62 wrote: November 20th, 2022, 3:43 am Money seldom solves the homeless problem.
No money definitely does not solve the problem either.

...

buffalo_girl
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

Post by buffalo_girl »

Sorry state of affairs in SLC. Glad we are out of there!

Here's an example of a solid solution for homelessness and addiction. It will take more than one such program in the city.

scroll down for video:

https://www.theothersideacademy.com/

https://utahstories.com/2020/04/the-oth ... lake-city/

OurVoices
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

Post by OurVoices »

HVDC wrote: November 20th, 2022, 10:09 am
OurVoices wrote: November 20th, 2022, 9:53 am So much compassion. Most of the homeless were abused as children to include CPS stealing them and being raped in foster care. And many are the pure in heart whose God's angels are rescuing while those who judge in their warm homes will not be rescued but will be nuked in the cities or worse.
I have been homeless.

I have stood in food lines.

I slept mostly in cars not the ground.

I know who and what the homeless population is made up of.

At least on the West Coast.

Most are mentally I'll.

Yes, some are from abusive situations.

But many are not.

Many are just lazy.

Many lack structure.

You cannot fix their long term probems with just food and shelter.

It goes much deeper than that.

Bring back vagrancy laws.

Arrest and funnel them into appropriate venues.

That will solve the homeless problem.

Misapplied and misguided compassion is only kicking the can down the road.

I don't think anyone is going to be nuked; at least not on any large scale.

They have something else in mind.

Sir H
I am not naive. The Church should build mental hospitals....where some can come and go. Church could solve the problem that they helped to create.

buffalo_girl
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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I am not naive. The Church should build mental hospitals....where some can come and go. Church could solve the problem that they helped to create.
View the links I posted above.

OurVoices
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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Instead of another land grab by corrupt Utah Legislators called the Inland Port development, they could build a tiny home community to REWARD those trying to better their lives.

OurVoices
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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The greatest good that should happen for these precious souls is to have Christ's servants walk among them and cast out demons.

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TheChristian
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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I have been homeless in my youth, have also worked in Christian homeless shelters, the best way is to see to their temporal needs, show them compassion, then you have no end of opportunities to tell them about Jesus..........
A starving man or woman, one whom has no coat apon their backs and is freezing will most likely not want a lecture, but he needs his belly filling first and a coat apon his back to keep him warm, giving him such fullfills said need and softens their hearts and attitudes towards you, then you will find you have their ears and can give them the true food of Life, the story of Jesus of Nazerath.......
Some of the greatest miracles and conversions in these last days occur amongst such benighted and oft forgotten people.

I was working in the Elim pentecostal Homeless shelter down by the harbour of Aberdeen, Scotland.
It was January and the frost was hard apon the ground, sitting apon the doorstep of the shelter as I was coming bye was a man with long wild greasy hair, he stunk to high heaven, his parker coast was in tatters , he had no socks on his feet and his toes all peeped out of his torn canvas trainers.
He was all huddled up, shaking,as he was withdrawing from herione.
We took him in, ensured he had all his temporal needs were met.
He had once been a millionare, a famous Pop star in the late 60s early Seventies, with a group that had many hits, he had it all mansions, wine, women, song, fame and fortune, drugs dragged him into the very gutter............
He became a Christian, wrote fantastic songs of praise for the churchs.

Mary was a hardcore Punk rocker that stood around the big monuement in the centre of Aberdeen, she was homeless, she also was a prostitute whom practised her trade in the nearbye graveyard.
Again there was times she had no trade or it was far to cold to sleep in doorways, she was encountered by the christians in the late nite soups.........
She was in the newspapers some time afterwards.........It appeared she was the daughter of a very wealthy and powerfull Lord and Lady of the kingdom. Alas they both died and the former prostitute punkess of Aberdeen become a wealthy powerfull woman and Duchess of the Land, but far, far better than that she was a Christian.........She bore bright testimony to her conversion to Jesus in said newspapers, and it was all due to christians late at night seeking homeless and destitute people like her.........

As said attend to the homeless and the down trodden, then tell them about Jesus, He is the only one that can heal wrecked and broken lives...........

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The Red Pill
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Re: Tour of downtown Salt Lake City and it's homeless crisis...when the Mormon Church owns a trillion dollars

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There are programs that do work, such as Switchpoint in the Saint George area. Designed to get people back on their feet. In return for a place to sleep and a couple meals a day...they have to work..do laundry, prepare meals. In the day they are to go out and seek employment. They offer employment counciling and life counciling. Many success stories from the program.

The Church could OBVIOUSLY duplicate that type of program for the homeless in SLC...but they don't...it would mean drawing funds from the Ensign Peak Advisors account balance.

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