Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

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Chip
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Chip »

Serragon wrote: November 21st, 2022, 5:11 pm
Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 7:19 am
I am with the Church leaders, and because I am with the Church leaders, I am with God.
This really is it in a nutshell. No search for truth. Instead, a blind faith in the institution as a proxy for God. If you come at it from this perspective, then all you do is find reasons why God wants this to be instead of finding out what Gods actually wants. And since you never actually measure your belief against any objective standard, you are unaware just how ridiculous some of your explanations end up being.

I know many like this. The church is their real foundation, not Christ.

It's spelled I-D-O-L-A-T-R-Y.

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Chip
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Chip »

Definition of idolatry...

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”

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HereWeGo
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by HereWeGo »

Christianlee wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:23 pm I have faith that at some point Jesus will intervene to destroy Satan's plan. It will be dramatic.
Jesus' plan may not be to save the LDS Church. The Davidic Servant may start something new. I don't see how the LDS Church can be reformed as much as would be needed.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Subcomandante »

Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:35 pm Definition of idolatry...

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Following the prophets is not a sign of idolatry. Try again.

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Chip
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Chip »

Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:37 pm
Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:35 pm Definition of idolatry...

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Following the prophets is not a sign of idolatry. Try again.

Why? Everyone here KNOWS you are an idolator, except YOU. Maybe one of trolls can make your case.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Subcomandante »

Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:42 pm
Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:37 pm
Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:35 pm Definition of idolatry...

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Following the prophets is not a sign of idolatry. Try again.

Why? Everyone here KNOWS you are an idolator, except YOU. Maybe one of trolls can make your case.
An idolater is a person who worships the created, including your own self, over the Creator. I do not "worship" the brethren. I follow them because they follow Christ.

Perhaps you have it backwards. Everyone on this forum save a few people are idolaters of the past, much like the Pharisees were. They put former prophets on the pedestals while ignoring the present messengers, not knowing that in the past generations, they too would have maligned the prophets for doing similar things to what the present prophets are doing.

You guys love to cite President Benson a lot, yet ignore the inconvenient truths that Benson was a different man in the 80s than he was in the 50s and 60s. We call that cherry picking; only taking part of the quotes that support your point of view while ignoring different quotes made by the same person that could destroy your narrative.

You guys aren't the only ones that do this. Many of the Heartlanders do this all the time too, as well as many different individuals that are affiliated with the Heartlander movement. You guys are so stuck in a bubble and a paradigm, you don't know what to do when you run into a current message that destroys your paradigm. You feel betrayed and you become an accuser of the brethren.

Christianlee
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Christianlee »

Idolators of the past? So the world accepts sodomy as alright and God’s people are supposed to just follow the crowd? That’s not how it works.

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marc
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

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Chip
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Chip »

Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:51 pm
Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:42 pm
Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:37 pm
Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:35 pm Definition of idolatry...

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Following the prophets is not a sign of idolatry. Try again.

Why? Everyone here KNOWS you are an idolator, except YOU. Maybe one of trolls can make your case.
An idolater is a person who worships the created, including your own self, over the Creator. I do not "worship" the brethren. I follow them because they follow Christ.

Perhaps you have it backwards. Everyone on this forum save a few people are idolaters of the past, much like the Pharisees were. They put former prophets on the pedestals while ignoring the present messengers, not knowing that in the past generations, they too would have maligned the prophets for doing similar things to what the present prophets are doing.

You guys love to cite President Benson a lot, yet ignore the inconvenient truths that Benson was a different man in the 80s than he was in the 50s and 60s. We call that cherry picking; only taking part of the quotes that support your point of view while ignoring different quotes made by the same person that could destroy your narrative.

You guys aren't the only ones that do this. Many of the Heartlanders do this all the time too, as well as many different individuals that are affiliated with the Heartlander movement. You guys are so stuck in a bubble and a paradigm, you don't know what to do when you run into a current message that destroys your paradigm. You feel betrayed and you become an accuser of the brethren.

When the oracles get moldy, we can turn to the scriptures and be fed.

spiritMan
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by spiritMan »

Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:51 pm
Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:42 pm
Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:37 pm
Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:35 pm Definition of idolatry...

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Following the prophets is not a sign of idolatry. Try again.

Why? Everyone here KNOWS you are an idolator, except YOU. Maybe one of trolls can make your case.
An idolater is a person who worships the created, including your own self, over the Creator. I do not "worship" the brethren. I follow them because they follow Christ.

Perhaps you have it backwards. Everyone on this forum save a few people are idolaters of the past, much like the Pharisees were. They put former prophets on the pedestals while ignoring the present messengers, not knowing that in the past generations, they too would have maligned the prophets for doing similar things to what the present prophets are doing.

You guys love to cite President Benson a lot, yet ignore the inconvenient truths that Benson was a different man in the 80s than he was in the 50s and 60s. We call that cherry picking; only taking part of the quotes that support your point of view while ignoring different quotes made by the same person that could destroy your narrative.

You guys aren't the only ones that do this. Many of the Heartlanders do this all the time too, as well as many different individuals that are affiliated with the Heartlander movement. You guys are so stuck in a bubble and a paradigm, you don't know what to do when you run into a current message that destroys your paradigm. You feel betrayed and you become an accuser of the brethren.
I'm genuinely curious why you set them up as prophets?

Just bc JS was a prophet doesn't make anyone else de facto one.

A good feeling?

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marc
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by marc »

From Gileadi:

"A False Socio-Economic System Sustains Babylon

Personal gain and power--the quest for self-exaltation--are the main driving forces behind Babylon. If these are our driving forces also, then we too belong to Babylon. Babylon focuses on the things of this world, not those of God or a better world. Babylon's socio-economic system is based on the manufacture, promotion, and sale of idols--false gods people worship. The prophets define these the "works of men's hands," inventions of man's own making. Anciently, false gods consisted largely of statues, icons, and fetishes...

...In our society, no less than in ancient Babylon, consumer goods--the works of men's hands--form a vast human enterprise...They follow popular trends and are expensive to buy. They divide people into rich and poor, depending on who can pay the highest price."

"Isaiah satirically parodies the role of idols in Babylon's society. People attribute their success in life to them rather than to God. After all, they provide a decent living for those who manufacture, promote, and sell them. In fact, the entire human establishment revolves around them. The very machinery of Bayblon thrives on the profuse production of idols, the fruits of man's resourcefulness and marvelous ingenuity.

Isaiah depicts this preoccupation with idols as false "worship," set in opposition to true worship. The Hebrew verb "worship" (abad) also means "work" (abad). Applying this dual meaning, whatever people work at, spend their energies and resources on, that is what they worship. Those who belong to Babylon, however, don't perceive it for what it is. They can't for a moment imagine that they are worshiping idols or that there is a problem with what they do. They carry their idols on their persons, they place them in their homes, they idolize and adore them, yet they don't discern that it is idolatry. Materialism, like any other culture, seeks to perpetuate itself and provides its own rationale."
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Deseret Bookstore is a shop of infotainment and idols for sale. $$$
#idolatry

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The Red Pill
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by The Red Pill »

HereWeGo wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:36 pm
Christianlee wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:23 pm I have faith that at some point Jesus will intervene to destroy Satan's plan. It will be dramatic.
Jesus' plan may not be to save the LDS Church. The Davidic Servant may start something new. I don't see how the LDS Church can be reformed as much as would be needed.
I would have refuted your statement two years ago, but not anymore. After "urging" the deadly-jab, all the other covid nonsense...which led me to do a deep dive into church history including Brigham's massive tomfoolery...

...I now feel the Davidic Servant, along with others, will finish the restoration that God and Joseph Smith started...but was cut short by his murder.

The Brighamite faction will go down as an interplanetary object lesson in how...NOT to do it.

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marc
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by marc »

The Red Pill wrote: November 21st, 2022, 9:23 pm...I now feel the Davidic Servant, along with others, will finish the restoration that God and Joseph Smith started...but was cut short by his murder.
D&C 103:15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.
19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.
20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.

;)

Serragon
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Serragon »

Subcomandante wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:37 pm
Chip wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:35 pm Definition of idolatry...

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Following the prophets is not a sign of idolatry. Try again.
I agree with you. We should always follow a prophet because by definition they will be speaking the word of the Lord.

The real crux of the issue then is who is a prophet rather than whether they should be followed.

You have decided that those you follow are prophets because of their position in the institution. And you are so strident in this that people begin to see the institution as your idol because you it seems that you put full faith in it as a proxy for God.

Most of us here would rather use prophetic fruits as a measure for whether someone is a prophet rather than a title. Men create titles while the Spirit manifests fruit. And if we cannot find that a man is a prophet, then we are under no obligation to follow him. In fact, it would be condemnation to our souls if we did, and putting our faith in that man instead of Christ would be no different than the Golden Calf for the Israelites.

Christianlee
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Christianlee »

I recently read the Book of Jeremiah. The false prophets said all is well. Jeremiah wound up imprisoned in a cistern for prophesying truth. Which are the LDS prophets right now?
Last edited by Christianlee on November 22nd, 2022, 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Luke
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Luke »

The Red Pill wrote: November 21st, 2022, 9:23 pm
HereWeGo wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:36 pm
Christianlee wrote: November 21st, 2022, 8:23 pm I have faith that at some point Jesus will intervene to destroy Satan's plan. It will be dramatic.
Jesus' plan may not be to save the LDS Church. The Davidic Servant may start something new. I don't see how the LDS Church can be reformed as much as would be needed.
I would have refuted your statement two years ago, but not anymore. After "urging" the deadly-jab, all the other covid nonsense...which led me to do a deep dive into church history including Brigham's massive tomfoolery...

...I now feel the Davidic Servant, along with others, will finish the restoration that God and Joseph Smith started...but was cut short by his murder.

The Brighamite faction will go down as an interplanetary object lesson in how...NOT to do it.
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SempiternalHarbinger
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

Christianlee wrote: November 21st, 2022, 5:45 pm Sometimes I think the younger members are jost poking the eyes out of the baby boomers and older. Is RMN running the church or just some millennials in the background?
In the Background...

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^^^ Someone needs to seriously add/insert the LD$ church into the BIG PHARAM/PHARMAKEIA image above.

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Not ^^^ wickedness, climate change will be our downfall... lol

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BYU ^^^

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bookofmormonevidence.org ^^^

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The Nicene Creed ^^^

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I'm so sorry folks, I have to wonder how much Uchtdorf's suit, tie, shirt, socks, underwear, shoes, garments, make-up artist, speech writer, hair stylist, manicurist, watch, the car he drove in, etc., cost all together for this one ^^^ event?? Any guesses?

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"Death on the Pale Horse" ^^^ End of the world
Last edited by SempiternalHarbinger on November 22nd, 2022, 4:52 am, edited 4 times in total.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

You had me at Sherri and Wendy

Generic User
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Generic User »

Christianlee wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 12:50 am I recently read the Book of Jeremiah. The false prophets said all is well. Jeremiah wound up imprisoned in a cistern for prophesying truth. Which are the LDS prophets right now?
Excommunicating folks like Gileadi for expounding Isaiah, while embracing their newfound appreciation for "pride" and Sodom behavior. It's bad when there's enough tension from expounding plain and literal scriptures that go beyond "faith, repentance, baptism" that people are concerned about disciplinary action for doing so. Yet I see GAs and their spouses being advocates for Sodom and Gomorrah and celebrated for it. But hey, I guess we worship the past as an idol.....Somehow doctrine does not change.... But those that notice a shift away from plain and literal doctrine regarding homosexuality are "worshipping the past".
There's no interdimensional chess from the brethren, Isaiah called our day. I know many here don't believe it, but I do that they hold the authority. But just as John wretched the keys of the kingdom from the Jews in preparation for the first coming, so will David wretch them from the "Jews" in preparation for the second coming.
Oddly the Sodom embrace gives me morbid hope, surely if the sin is bad enough to wipe cities from existence, it's embrace is bad enough to get this party started without much delay.
The next earthquake will knock more than just a trumpet from Moroni.

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The Red Pill
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by The Red Pill »

The truth about the gay marriage bill the church supported.

Link to article:
https://thefederalist.com/2022/11/22/th ... -knows-it/
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Thinker
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Thinker »

nightlight wrote: November 19th, 2022, 10:55 am…And I never said we didn't need a government... I said the government shouldn't be involved in marriage.…
That perspective shows ignorance about the many children who are born to parents who break up & don’t put their children first (many, including lds divorcees). What exactly do you think would happen to the many children whose parents split & abandon their children - if “government stayed out of marriage”? If marriage is not a societal protection for such children - would would be?

“Marriage simply puts the government on notice that the married partners are now a family unit, and that they lay claim to the natural duties and privileges that accompany procreative relationships.”

The notion that religion should be the sole entity in charge of marriage - & in charge of the main purpose of marriage: the well-being of children/future-society - ignores the fact that even religious people today would not care for their children if government didn’t step in to ensure they did.

What sane person would take away that protection for so many children?

Government involvement in marriage is not ideal, but it’s better than alternative fantasies you’ve suggested.
Last edited by Thinker on November 22nd, 2022, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HereWeGo
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by HereWeGo »

Generic User wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 5:28 am But just as John wretched the keys of the kingdom from the Jews in preparation for the first coming, so will David wretch them from the "Jews" in preparation for the second coming.
Perhaps he already has. No keys would certainly explain the crazy things they have been doing lately.

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gkearney
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by gkearney »

Thinker wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 3:44 pm
nightlight wrote: November 19th, 2022, 10:55 am…And I never said we didn't need a government... I said the government shouldn't be involved in marriage.…
That perspective shows ignorance about the many children who are born to parents who break up & don’t put their children first (many, including lds divorcees). What exactly do you think would happen to the many children whose parents split & abandon their children - if “government stayed out of marriage”? If marriage is not a societal protection for such children - would would be?

“Marriage simply puts the government on notice that the married partners are now a family unit, and that they lay claim to the natural duties and privileges that accompany procreative relationships.”

The notion that religion should be the sole entity in charge of marriage - & in charge of the main purpose of marriage: the well-being of children/future-society - ignores the fact that even religious people today would not care for their children if government didn’t step in to ensure they did.

What sane person would take away that protection for so many children?

Government involvement in marriage is not ideal, but it’s better than alternative fantasies you’ve suggested.
Marriage as far as the government is concerned is nothing more than a kind of civil contract. Contract law is more than capable of dealing with any of these issues without having the government’s hand in the religious rite of marriage.

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nightlight
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by nightlight »

Thinker wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 3:44 pm
nightlight wrote: November 19th, 2022, 10:55 am…And I never said we didn't need a government... I said the government shouldn't be involved in marriage.…
That perspective shows ignorance about the many children who are born to parents who break up & don’t put their children first (many, including lds divorcees). What exactly do you think would happen to the many children whose parents split & abandon their children - if “government stayed out of marriage”? If marriage is not a societal protection for such children - would would be?

“Marriage simply puts the government on notice that the married partners are now a family unit, and that they lay claim to the natural duties and privileges that accompany procreative relationships.”

The notion that religion should be the sole entity in charge of marriage - & in charge of the main purpose of marriage: the well-being of children/future-society - ignores the fact that even religious people today would not care for their children if government didn’t step in to ensure they did.

What sane person would take away that protection for so many children?

Government involvement in marriage is not ideal, but it’s better than alternative fantasies you’ve suggested.
Hilarious watching you put words in my mouth.

I never said it should be religion as the authority on marriage

Not once did I say that

I think it should be between 2 grown human beings(or 3 people, Outlawing polygamy is a joke ) . Not the state. Not the church. People with free agency in a free society. Calling themselves what they choose to call themselves. Living how they choose to live as long as they are not infringing on somebody else's rights.


And the state getting involved in the custody of children is not the state getting involved in marriage. It's the state getting involved in a broken family. The failure of marriage.

I never suggested protection should be taken from children.

Maybe listen to what people are saying instead of just thinking your thoughts, thinker

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Subcomandante
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Subcomandante »

I have some new information here that might be of interest in this forum, and might very well prove me wrong here...

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/g ... 0586931514

Here Ted Cruz has a podcast; the juiciest part starts at the 9 minute mark. Apparently Romney was lobbying the Church to send out the statement and convinced "a senior member" of the Church (not identified) to go forward with the statement.

I wonder which Apostle has oversight responsibility over the North American areas, specifically the East area.

This crow tastes pathetic.

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