Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

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LDS Physician
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by LDS Physician »

Just sent this to other members of the stake presidency in response to a forwarded deseret news article:

Enjoyed that article. I am having members question the leadership's ability to answer "no" to this temple recommend question:

Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

It reminds me of the inquiries I received as bishop with that question (which was changed soon thereafter) regarding the church's involvement with the BSA when that organization was adopting homosexual policy.

It feels dirty and dangerous to be seen as supporting the codification of sodomy into the legal foundation of the promised land, no matter what your intentions. I understand the intricacies and still feel uncomfortable. The church actually didn't need to say a single thing about this as the religious freedom additions to the bill were already in the works. They could have remained silent and avoided being married to this bill in the press and minds of the members who have already had their eyebrows raised with the BSA, the BYU homosexual policy fiasco, etc.

I think supporting the normalization of homosexual marriage is a mistake. It's brought down entire societies in scripture and beyond. It is getting increasingly difficult explaining to members who feel the same.

EmmaLee
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by EmmaLee »

LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:02 am Just sent this to other members of the stake presidency in response to a forwarded deseret news article:

....

Please let us know what kind of a response you get.

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Ebenezer
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Ebenezer »

That article really goes hard on the (false) idea that the church can support this bill and still practice its religious beliefs. It’s the new “if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.”

But the reality is that an individual who declines to bend the knee (florist, baker, etc are classic examples) will get steamrolled.

Elder Oaks’ horrible statement on religious liberty makes me sick.

“In a nation with citizens of many different religious beliefs or disbeliefs, the government must sometimes limit the rights of some to act upon their religious beliefs when doing so is necessary to protect the health, safety and welfare of all…”

The crew on the good ship Zion need to mutiny.

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marc
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by marc »

LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:02 am Just sent this to other members of the stake presidency in response to a forwarded deseret news article:

Enjoyed that article. I am having members question the leadership's ability to answer "no" to this temple recommend question:

Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

It reminds me of the inquiries I received as bishop with that question (which was changed soon thereafter) regarding the church's involvement with the BSA when that organization was adopting homosexual policy.

It feels dirty and dangerous to be seen as supporting the codification of sodomy into the legal foundation of the promised land, no matter what your intentions. I understand the intricacies and still feel uncomfortable. The church actually didn't need to say a single thing about this as the religious freedom additions to the bill were already in the works. They could have remained silent and avoided being married to this bill in the press and minds of the members who have already had their eyebrows raised with the BSA, the BYU homosexual policy fiasco, etc.

I think supporting the normalization of homosexual marriage is a mistake. It's brought down entire societies in scripture and beyond. It is getting increasingly difficult explaining to members who feel the same.
Please share link to said article.

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LDS Physician
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by LDS Physician »

EmmaLee wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:12 am
LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:02 am Just sent this to other members of the stake presidency in response to a forwarded deseret news article:

....

Please let us know what kind of a response you get.
President immediately responded with (paraphrase). Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope all members of the stake presidency and the stake feel comfortable discussing difficult topics. He's great.

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LDS Physician
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by LDS Physician »

marc wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:44 am
LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:02 am Just sent this to other members of the stake presidency in response to a forwarded deseret news article:

Enjoyed that article. I am having members question the leadership's ability to answer "no" to this temple recommend question:

Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

It reminds me of the inquiries I received as bishop with that question (which was changed soon thereafter) regarding the church's involvement with the BSA when that organization was adopting homosexual policy.

It feels dirty and dangerous to be seen as supporting the codification of sodomy into the legal foundation of the promised land, no matter what your intentions. I understand the intricacies and still feel uncomfortable. The church actually didn't need to say a single thing about this as the religious freedom additions to the bill were already in the works. They could have remained silent and avoided being married to this bill in the press and minds of the members who have already had their eyebrows raised with the BSA, the BYU homosexual policy fiasco, etc.

I think supporting the normalization of homosexual marriage is a mistake. It's brought down entire societies in scripture and beyond. It is getting increasingly difficult explaining to members who feel the same.
Please share link to said article.
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/11/2 ... rriage-act

EmmaLee
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Posts: 10884

Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by EmmaLee »

LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 9:22 am
EmmaLee wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:12 am
LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:02 am Just sent this to other members of the stake presidency in response to a forwarded deseret news article:

....

Please let us know what kind of a response you get.
President immediately responded with (paraphrase). Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope all members of the stake presidency and the stake feel comfortable discussing difficult topics. He's great.
Really glad to hear it! That's definitely not the response you would have gotten in our stake.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

h_p wrote: November 28th, 2022, 8:59 pm
spiritMan wrote: November 28th, 2022, 8:13 pm Got to love the gaslighting.
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/11/2 ... rriage-act
"Why Latter-day Saints . . ."

Bull. Why the LDS CHURCH supports it; not why MEMBERS support it. . . .of course this article is a push article.

It's written to convince the remnants of the Church who are not on-board with this to get on-board.
The "religious freedom" amendment in the bill only grants protection to religious institutions, not private individuals. But this is standard operating procedure with the church: you're only covered if you're officially toeing the line and allowed it as part of some bigger organization. They did the same thing with religious exemptions against the clotshot at BYU-Hawaii. No room for sincere, personally-held religious beliefs.

...
And did the same thing in Arizona, squashing a parent's rights in favor of the religious institution's, as it pertains to helping children with anything related to LGBTQ.

Atrasado
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Atrasado »

Christianlee wrote: November 21st, 2022, 7:09 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: November 21st, 2022, 6:50 pm
Christianlee wrote: November 21st, 2022, 5:40 pm
Dusty Wanderer wrote: November 21st, 2022, 4:29 pm

Were all the other choirs booked already? You know, the ones not vainly using God as a vehicle to broadcast their sexual fetishes and perversions.

If virtue signaling the cool kids club just for publicity sake was all they were after, they could’ve had any number of all-black choirs come, or even better all-black women’s choir (tons of diverse options in DC). Nah, they carefully chose what they exactly wanted.
This doesn’t seem to be the gay choir’s first appearance at the D.C Temple. Aaron Sherinian on Twitter was praising an appearance last April. They are regulars.
They performed a Christmas concert a few years ago, then it was shut down for covid.
I really don’t get it. What does the Church gain from all of this gay pandering? There has to be an angle. Are they just worried about their ESG score?
The end goal of those in charge in SLC isn't anything that is beneficial to the saints. Read D&C 64:39-40, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, D&C 85:7-9, Isaiah 28:1-12, or Isaiah 56:10-11.
  • In D&C 64:39-40 the Lord reveals that there will be those regarded as apostles and prophets who are not and are liars and hypocrites.
  • In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 it explains that there will be one before the Second Coming "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Who, at this point, has a temple of God? I would argue only the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. So, who could exalt himself above God and sit in His temple in such a way without security removing him? I'm not sure, but I have my suspicions.
  • In D&C 85:7-9 it teaches that the Lord "will send one mighty and strong...to set in order the house of God" and that a "man, who [is] called of God and appointed, that [will put] forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death." Who could be the man that seeks to steady the ark of God? It has to be someone with Church-wide reach who was called of God and appointed, I would think.
  • In Isaiah 28:1-15 it talks about "the drunkards of Ephraim" who will be "overcome with [the] wine [of worldliness]" (Isaiah 29:9 explains that wine is a metaphor). "The priests and prophets have gone astray...they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions." They "[take] refuge in deception and [hide] behind falsehoods, [and] have covenanted with Death, or reached an understanding with Sheol, that, should a flooding scourge sweep through the earth, it should not reach you." I surmise from these scriptures that the brethren know about the horrible diseases that will be soon released on the earth and were promised by the cabal that if they supported the Covid-19 poisons they would be spared through vaccines or antidotes. However, in v. 18 the Lord states, "Your covenant with Death shall prove void, your understanding with Sheol have no effect: when the flooding scourge sweeps through, you shall be overrun by it." Their plans will be completely frustrated. They should have placed their trust in God and not feared man. (I'm using the Gileadi translation here, but the KJV does almost as well.)
  • In Isaiah 56:10-11 it states,
    Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware; all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber. Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds. They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage.
    That is the answer to the question of what does the Church get? Well, the Church gets nothing, but the leaders must be getting something for here it states that they are gluttonous dogs, and are insatiable.
The general leadership of the Church, to a large degree, has been compromised by Satan's cabal. I'm sure there are righteous men in some of the leading quorums, but I am not sure who they are. That doesn't mean that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints wasn't founded by God, but all is not well in Zion. I am trying to repent and exercise greater faith in Christ toward good works for I am certain that the days until tribulation are very short. We cannot depend on any but God for all mankind is unstable and quick to do evil and even Joseph Smith was deceived by some men, at least initially.

I know I'm preaching, for the most part, to the choir here. But it helps me to better understand these things and remember them if I write these things out.


Pseudonym
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Pseudonym »

I recently had a deep discussion with a young girl in middle school what wants to be identified as a boy. I like to ask questions to make sure I understand – I will post what I think I learned.

Kids in middle school struggle with a lot of things – many of the things they struggle with are social expectations. The young girl I talked to struggled a great deal with being bullied among other things (she did not feel successful). I do not intend to make this about bulling. However, this young girl went to her teachers, councilors and others in her circle of influence for help – she did not believe there was sufficient effort. She felt unsupported.

She was under the impression that boys do not have the same difficulty as girls. After dwelling on this for a while she decided to identify as a boy. She very quickly discovered a world of support. She was no longer bullied by anyone. (I suspect our society has become fearful of bulling someone “brave” enough to change their gender identification???) She also discovered that all her teachers, councilors and other changed drastically in the way they treated her. She felt she was respected for the first time and receiving support. (I think teachers are scared to death of a trans student coming to them for help.)

This discussion caused me to questions some of my own attitudes. I have often asked what a person needs to do be clearly demonstrate they have lost connections with reality. This young girl has convinced me that reality can often come across in the most illogical ways in societies of confused adults.

I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be a lifeline to lost and confused individuals turned upside down in an illogical society. I believe it certainly needs to. I do not know if the same answer will help all those confused and full of questions. I do believe that a show of compassion and concern will be more beneficial than strong criticism. I am unprepared to help some of the lost sheep. But I am coming around to a concept that as a society we need to show an example more than talk about what ought to be.

HVDC
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by HVDC »

Before Transism, what would we normally have done for someone who is having a "break from reality"?

Compassionate insistence on the truth.

The real problem as you articulated is that the so called Adults in this society, aren't.

Kids are confused.

Because everyone is.

And our support of the Entertainment/Make Believe Industry is behind it.

Congratulations.

We really can wish upon a star.

And have the wish come true.

And girls can be boys if they want too.

Just another snare along the way.

Another rabbit for dinner.

"Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they must first make mad"

I'd say they are doing a bang up job.

Sir H

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LDS Physician
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by LDS Physician »

EmmaLee wrote: November 29th, 2022, 9:24 am
LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 9:22 am
EmmaLee wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:12 am
LDS Physician wrote: November 29th, 2022, 8:02 am Just sent this to other members of the stake presidency in response to a forwarded deseret news article:

....

Please let us know what kind of a response you get.
President immediately responded with (paraphrase). Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope all members of the stake presidency and the stake feel comfortable discussing difficult topics. He's great.
Really glad to hear it! That's definitely not the response you would have gotten in our stake.
Agreed. Our stake president is a peacemaker, wise, and open-minded.

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The Red Pill
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by The Red Pill »

Breaking news...but no surprise. Romney betrays Utah...buy hey, so did Q15.
Screenshot_20221129-181259_Brave.jpg
Screenshot_20221129-181259_Brave.jpg (217.52 KiB) Viewed 629 times

Dave62
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Dave62 »

Pseudonym wrote: November 29th, 2022, 2:17 pm I recently had a deep discussion with a young girl in middle school what wants to be identified as a boy. I like to ask questions to make sure I understand – I will post what I think I learned.

Kids in middle school struggle with a lot of things – many of the things they struggle with are social expectations. The young girl I talked to struggled a great deal with being bullied among other things (she did not feel successful). I do not intend to make this about bulling. However, this young girl went to her teachers, councilors and others in her circle of influence for help – she did not believe there was sufficient effort. She felt unsupported.

She was under the impression that boys do not have the same difficulty as girls. After dwelling on this for a while she decided to identify as a boy. She very quickly discovered a world of support. She was no longer bullied by anyone. (I suspect our society has become fearful of bulling someone “brave” enough to change their gender identification???) She also discovered that all her teachers, councilors and other changed drastically in the way they treated her. She felt she was respected for the first time and receiving support. (I think teachers are scared to death of a trans student coming to them for help.)

This discussion caused me to questions some of my own attitudes. I have often asked what a person needs to do be clearly demonstrate they have lost connections with reality. This young girl has convinced me that reality can often come across in the most illogical ways in societies of confused adults.

I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be a lifeline to lost and confused individuals turned upside down in an illogical society. I believe it certainly needs to. I do not know if the same answer will help all those confused and full of questions. I do believe that a show of compassion and concern will be more beneficial than strong criticism. I am unprepared to help some of the lost sheep. But I am coming around to a concept that as a society we need to show an example more than talk about what ought to be.
One of my middle school students declared to me that she is now gay. I said, "No, you're not. You're a teenage girl." I am a bit terse in this regard but that is my privilege as a 'Grumpy Old Man.'


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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

The most dangerous enemy is always the one hidden among the ranks of the righteous.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:08 am The most dangerous enemy is always the one hidden among the ranks of the righteous.


Something something about Satan appearing as an angel of light...🤔

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Cruiserdude »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:08 am The most dangerous enemy is always the one hidden among the ranks of the righteous.
I imagine it's kinda like the wheat and the tares being allowed to grow together...

nvr
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by nvr »

Pseudonym wrote: November 29th, 2022, 2:17 pm I recently had a deep discussion with a young girl in middle school what wants to be identified as a boy. I like to ask questions to make sure I understand – I will post what I think I learned.

Kids in middle school struggle with a lot of things – many of the things they struggle with are social expectations. The young girl I talked to struggled a great deal with being bullied among other things (she did not feel successful). I do not intend to make this about bulling. However, this young girl went to her teachers, councilors and others in her circle of influence for help – she did not believe there was sufficient effort. She felt unsupported.

She was under the impression that boys do not have the same difficulty as girls. After dwelling on this for a while she decided to identify as a boy. She very quickly discovered a world of support. She was no longer bullied by anyone. (I suspect our society has become fearful of bulling someone “brave” enough to change their gender identification???) She also discovered that all her teachers, councilors and other changed drastically in the way they treated her. She felt she was respected for the first time and receiving support. (I think teachers are scared to death of a trans student coming to them for help.)

This discussion caused me to questions some of my own attitudes. I have often asked what a person needs to do be clearly demonstrate they have lost connections with reality. This young girl has convinced me that reality can often come across in the most illogical ways in societies of confused adults.

I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be a lifeline to lost and confused individuals turned upside down in an illogical society. I believe it certainly needs to. I do not know if the same answer will help all those confused and full of questions. I do believe that a show of compassion and concern will be more beneficial than strong criticism. I am unprepared to help some of the lost sheep. But I am coming around to a concept that as a society we need to show an example more than talk about what ought to be.
We should really pause and reflect in the long run which approach best points towards God's plan of happiness.
No one benefits in the long run from normalizing gender identity disorder (it's always been recognized as a disorder, up until 10 years ago they renamed it to gender dysphoria to avoid the stigma from calling a disorder a disorder)

We're heading down a bad path encouraging troubled people to embrace mental illness. What's terrifying is that there are counselors, doctors and hospitals that have decided to turn this phenomenon into a serious profit engine for themselves.

Christianlee
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Posts: 2531

Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Christianlee »

I just heard a survey today which claimed 20% of GenZ considers themselves LGBT. Baby boomers were 2%. Is the LDS bending on these issues in attempt to keep the youth? It seems like an attempt which is doomed to fail. Tell them the truth and save some of their souls.

Christianlee
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Posts: 2531

Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Christianlee »

I do not understand why the Church didn’t say in the original statement, “We cannot support this bill unless it clearly supports the religious freedom rights of those who for religious reasons oppose same sex marriage.” Instead it seems to endorse the bill without specifically outlining what religious freedom provision is adequate. It is interesting that four supposedly conservative Utah Congressmen voted in favor of the original House bill which had no religious freedom provisions. I can’t believe they would have done that without at least some input from the Church. Most GOP House members voted against the original bill. Utah must be a mess on LGBQT issues now. The Church seems to be trying to appease the wrong side.

Christianlee
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Posts: 2531

Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Christianlee »

If marriage can mean anything it will soon mean nothing. The Respect for Marriage Act is ultimately about destroying the family unit as something the state respects.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/11/29/if ... yd8HQesYK0

FoundMyEden
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by FoundMyEden »

Dave62 wrote: November 29th, 2022, 6:56 pm
Pseudonym wrote: November 29th, 2022, 2:17 pm I recently had a deep discussion with a young girl in middle school what wants to be identified as a boy. I like to ask questions to make sure I understand – I will post what I think I learned.

Kids in middle school struggle with a lot of things – many of the things they struggle with are social expectations. The young girl I talked to struggled a great deal with being bullied among other things (she did not feel successful). I do not intend to make this about bulling. However, this young girl went to her teachers, councilors and others in her circle of influence for help – she did not believe there was sufficient effort. She felt unsupported.

She was under the impression that boys do not have the same difficulty as girls. After dwelling on this for a while she decided to identify as a boy. She very quickly discovered a world of support. She was no longer bullied by anyone. (I suspect our society has become fearful of bulling someone “brave” enough to change their gender identification???) She also discovered that all her teachers, councilors and other changed drastically in the way they treated her. She felt she was respected for the first time and receiving support. (I think teachers are scared to death of a trans student coming to them for help.)

This discussion caused me to questions some of my own attitudes. I have often asked what a person needs to do be clearly demonstrate they have lost connections with reality. This young girl has convinced me that reality can often come across in the most illogical ways in societies of confused adults.

I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be a lifeline to lost and confused individuals turned upside down in an illogical society. I believe it certainly needs to. I do not know if the same answer will help all those confused and full of questions. I do believe that a show of compassion and concern will be more beneficial than strong criticism. I am unprepared to help some of the lost sheep. But I am coming around to a concept that as a society we need to show an example more than talk about what ought to be.
One of my middle school students declared to me that she is now gay. I said, "No, you're not. You're a teenage girl." I am a bit terse in this regard but that is my privilege as a 'Grumpy Old Man.'
Thank you for being blunt and truthful. I use this same approach. Truth always prevails.

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JandD6572
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by JandD6572 »

So, reading through this, I noticed that the church stated that its doctrine "will"not change, that marriage is sacred and between a man and woman. awww, that's so nice, such a sweet backdrop to a wicked and sick world. still of all the things I have read, while the doctrine will not change, well, because as I have said before, it isn't their doctrine to change, I have yet to see anywhere, unless I've missed it, and if so, someone shows me where, but I have not seen one thing where the church says "it will "NOT" perform any same-sex marriages.

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