Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
Post Reply
Atrasado
captain of 100
Posts: 435

Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
Last edited by Atrasado on November 14th, 2022, 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

endlessismyname
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2100

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by endlessismyname »

I’ve been doing a deep dive on prophets and one thing is clear: the idea that prophets can’t lead us astray is unscriptural. Thanks for the scripture.

Chris01
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 5

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Chris01 »

The other day I read Rev 6:9 a fresh and thinking about the vax on a global scale was perhaps the clearest fulfillment of this verse I have considered.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Slain for the [perceived] word of God? Thoughts?

User avatar
Pazooka
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4016
Location: FEMA District 8

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Pazooka »

Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen?

It doesn't say that we should pray if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
Totally.

The high priest wore the name of the Lord on his forehead, inscribed on a golden plate (Ex. 28:36). Most translations say that he wore the words “Holy to the Lord,” but Jesus’ contemporaries understood the Hebrew words differently. Aristeas, a visitor to Jerusalem in the first century before Christ, and Philo a few years later both record that the high priest simply wore the Name, the four Hebrew letters YHWH... This must have been the original significance of the fourth commandment: “You shall not bear the Name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who bears his Name in vain” (Ex. 20:7). ~ https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the- ... otnote-037

As I understand it, once the high priest emerges from the holy place, he represents God to the people. And when that priests puts on the Name, he jolly well better represent.

User avatar
Pazooka
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4016
Location: FEMA District 8

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Pazooka »

Chris01 wrote: November 14th, 2022, 9:10 pm The other day I read Rev 6:9 a fresh and thinking about the vax on a global scale was perhaps the clearest fulfillment of this verse I have considered.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Slain for the [perceived] word of God? Thoughts?
The altar of the ancient Israelite temple was referred to as “the bosom of the earth” (as in: the altar represented the earth and beneath it represented the realm of the dead) Verse 9 seems, to me, to encompass more than those who will have been recently slain - probably all the way back to the early Christian martyrs. I would also suspect that being “slain for the word of God” would be akin to standing (or taking a stand) as a witness of God.

User avatar
JLHPROF
captain of 100
Posts: 683

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by JLHPROF »

This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷

Lizzy60
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7594

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Lizzy60 »

JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
I don’t believe any of us here are trying to get Pres Nelson removed from his position as President of the Church. We are concerned because family, friends, and some members of the church are labeling us as apostates because we don’t believe he spoke for God about the vaccine, as well as some other anti-doctrine of Christ statements by others in the Q15. This labeling of us as apostates has ramped up because of the statement that we can totally trust the Q15.
Yes, they will be removed unless they repent and come unto Christ. When Christ gathers His elect, His remnant, to build Zion, all those not hearing the invitation will be “removed.”

User avatar
Pazooka
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4016
Location: FEMA District 8

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Pazooka »

JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
That text is also translated “cut off from”, which we also find use of in the BofM. I’d wager to say RMN was never even a partaker of the presence of the Lord for him to have been cut off from it. As for being cut off from among “my people Israel”…we could definitely ponder some of those implications.

2 Nephi 5:20 Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9288
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
It may have already happened.

Some say it was Joseph Smith, but I think it was Wilford Woodruff.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8019

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Niemand »

JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
We don't know better. We do know he is in severe danger eternally if he doesn't repent of what he has done. One of our ward members is basically being rotted from within by these things and probably won't last two years.

User avatar
gradles21
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1057

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by gradles21 »

Pazooka wrote: November 15th, 2022, 8:09 am
JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
That text is also translated “cut off from”, which we also find use of in the BofM. I’d wager to say RMN was never even a partaker of the presence of the Lord for him to have been cut off from it. As for being cut off from among “my people Israel”…we could definitely ponder some of those implications.

2 Nephi 5:20 Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence.
Exactly! Ezekiel is talking about actual Prophets, not the president of a corporation.

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9288
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:58 am
Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.
Literally no one is claiming prophets are perfect.

THEY teach that they are infallible.

User avatar
tribrac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3492
Location: The land northward

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by tribrac »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 11:21 am

Literally no one is claiming prophets are perfect.
THEY teach that they are infallible.
Exactly, I couldn't have said it better.

That is why we must follow them exactly on everything they say without question, just as they say.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2498

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Mamabear »

JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
Nelson is not a prophet and never was, so the Lord will not destroy him….. The Lord doesn’t care what false prophets say and do just the real ones.

Atrasado
captain of 100
Posts: 435

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:58 am
Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.
I didn't say anything about prophets being perfect. And the Lord didn't say anything about it either. He just said that if the prophet speaks in My name there is no excuse for them to be wrong or mistaken, at all. Like any other person, the prophet will sin and make mistakes and must repent, but according to the Lord's word, there is no latitude for error when they speak in the Lord's name. I didn't write those things, Moses and Ezekiel did. Don't we live by every word of the Lord? Then why don't those scriptures matter to you?

JandD6572
captain of 50
Posts: 76

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by JandD6572 »

Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 12:16 pm
JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
Nelson is not a prophet and never was, so the Lord will not destroy him….. The Lord doesn’t care what false prophets say and do just the real ones.
I'm not so sure I agree totally, although I no longer have a testimony of "THE" church, I don't believe that God would allow a false prophet to run his church as well? thoughts?

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2498

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Mamabear »

JandD6572 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:18 pm
Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 12:16 pm
JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
Nelson is not a prophet and never was, so the Lord will not destroy him….. The Lord doesn’t care what false prophets say and do just the real ones.
I'm not so sure I agree totally, although I no longer have a testimony of "THE" church, I don't believe that God would allow a false prophet to run his church as well? thoughts?
It’s my belief that God has and does allow false prophets to run all religions... Including “the church.” He most likely wants us to wake up and come to Him and see that religion is an illusion, but most are too busy listening and taking orders from corrupt leaders to critically think for themselves.

Atrasado
captain of 100
Posts: 435

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

JandD6572 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:18 pm
Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 12:16 pm
JLHPROF wrote: November 15th, 2022, 6:25 am This quoted verse is interesting:

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Looks like we're supposed to let the Lord handle it to me. If President Nelson was wrong the Lord made a promise here.
Seems like many on this board know better than the Lord and are looking to remove President Nelson on behalf of the Lord rather than letting the Lord fulfill his promises.
Either that or they're wrong about his status since the Lord hasn't destroyed him yet. 🤷
Nelson is not a prophet and never was, so the Lord will not destroy him….. The Lord doesn’t care what false prophets say and do just the real ones.
I'm not so sure I agree totally, although I no longer have a testimony of "THE" church, I don't believe that God would allow a false prophet to run his church as well? thoughts?
The Lord allowed satanic men to be the high priests of Israel during His ministry. He called Judas to be an apostle. The Lord gave us many passages throughout the scriptures explaining that these things will be. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekieh, Joseph Smith, and many other prophets prophecied of these things. So, don't lose heart. The Lord has a plan and is trying us as silver.

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

Atrasado wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:17 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:58 am
Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have not deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.
I didn't say anything about prophets being perfect. And the Lord didn't say anything about it either. He just said that if the prophet speaks in My name there is no excuse for them to be wrong or mistaken, at all. Like any other person, the prophet will sin and make mistakes and must repent, but according to the Lord's word, there is no latitude for error when they speak in the Lord's name. I didn't write those things, Moses and Ezekiel did. Don't we live by every word of the Lord? Then why don't those scriptures matter to you?
The basis of your post is that because you disagree with a statement the prophet made regarding vaccines that he "lied" to you and you should no longer follow him. Therefore, your implication is indeed an expectation of perfection and anything short of that is justification to reject the prophet.

If your post had instead been, "Why did the prophet tell us to take an experimental vaccine that has proven to be harmful?" (while ignoring the fact that he also said to decide for yourself by consulting a medical professional, to pray about it, and listen to the Holy Ghost) The Occam's razor answer would be something like:

* President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.
* The Lord wanted people to take the vaccines for some external reason that we don't yet understand.

At no point should our response ever be to reject the prophet. The scriptures are clear on the consequences of doing that. My recommendation would be to let the Lord judge the prophet, since it isn't our place to do so.

User avatar
tribrac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3492
Location: The land northward

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by tribrac »

Innocentoldguy. Your razors choice only works in the vacuum scenario you created. It gets far more complicated in real application wherethe CoPB sends out it's ministers and employees to spread word that when the prophet speaks debate ends. And telling us God made the vaccine, and even that there is no reason to ever pray about something if the prophet has spoken about it .

I may not agree with poster you are arguing with, but I sympathize with the questions members have .
The expectation is that I trust a guy completely whom I have never met, whom I never seen perform a miracle, who says and does things differently depending on the crowd he is with, and who also tells me that his predecessors made mistakes, but never calls them mistakes. Yep, I struggle with it.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2498

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Mamabear »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:01 pm
Atrasado wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:17 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:58 am
Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,



According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,



How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.
I didn't say anything about prophets being perfect. And the Lord didn't say anything about it either. He just said that if the prophet speaks in My name there is no excuse for them to be wrong or mistaken, at all. Like any other person, the prophet will sin and make mistakes and must repent, but according to the Lord's word, there is no latitude for error when they speak in the Lord's name. I didn't write those things, Moses and Ezekiel did. Don't we live by every word of the Lord? Then why don't those scriptures matter to you?
The basis of your post is that because you disagree with a statement the prophet made regarding vaccines that he "lied" to you and you should no longer follow him. Therefore, your implication is indeed an expectation of perfection and anything short of that is justification to reject the prophet.

If your post had instead been, "Why did the prophet tell us to take an experimental vaccine that has proven to be harmful?" (while ignoring the fact that he also said to decide for yourself by consulting a medical professional, to pray about it, and listen to the Holy Ghost) The Occam's razor answer would be something like:

* President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.
* The Lord wanted people to take the vaccines for some external reason that we don't yet understand.

At no point should our response ever be to reject the prophet. The scriptures are clear on the consequences of doing that. My recommendation would be to let the Lord judge the prophet, since it isn't our place to do so.
“President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.“

When was the last time Nelson performed surgery? He hasn’t been a medical professional for many years and thus couldn’t speak as one. Even those who spoke as medical professionals were wrong.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9288
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:01 pm
Atrasado wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:17 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:58 am
Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,



According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,



How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.
I didn't say anything about prophets being perfect. And the Lord didn't say anything about it either. He just said that if the prophet speaks in My name there is no excuse for them to be wrong or mistaken, at all. Like any other person, the prophet will sin and make mistakes and must repent, but according to the Lord's word, there is no latitude for error when they speak in the Lord's name. I didn't write those things, Moses and Ezekiel did. Don't we live by every word of the Lord? Then why don't those scriptures matter to you?
The basis of your post is that because you disagree with a statement the prophet made regarding vaccines that he "lied" to you and you should no longer follow him. Therefore, your implication is indeed an expectation of perfection and anything short of that is justification to reject the prophet.

If your post had instead been, "Why did the prophet tell us to take an experimental vaccine that has proven to be harmful?" (while ignoring the fact that he also said to decide for yourself by consulting a medical professional, to pray about it, and listen to the Holy Ghost) The Occam's razor answer would be something like:

* President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.
* The Lord wanted people to take the vaccines for some external reason that we don't yet understand.

At no point should our response ever be to reject the prophet. The scriptures are clear on the consequences of doing that. My recommendation would be to let the Lord judge the prophet, since it isn't our place to do so.

So was my Bishopric and Stake Presidency wrong by telling all of us that the Lord has spoken about following the August 12th 2021 letter urging all members to get the "literal Godsend" clotshots?

What if I received revelation from God that president Nelson was 100% wrong? Was my bishop and stake president correct that I wasn't actually getting revelation from God, but satan instead?



If you think my experience was an isolated incident, you are a fool.

Atrasado
captain of 100
Posts: 435

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:01 pm
Atrasado wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:17 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:58 am
Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,



According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,



How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.
I didn't say anything about prophets being perfect. And the Lord didn't say anything about it either. He just said that if the prophet speaks in My name there is no excuse for them to be wrong or mistaken, at all. Like any other person, the prophet will sin and make mistakes and must repent, but according to the Lord's word, there is no latitude for error when they speak in the Lord's name. I didn't write those things, Moses and Ezekiel did. Don't we live by every word of the Lord? Then why don't those scriptures matter to you?
The basis of your post is that because you disagree with a statement the prophet made regarding vaccines that he "lied" to you and you should no longer follow him. Therefore, your implication is indeed an expectation of perfection and anything short of that is justification to reject the prophet.

...

At no point should our response ever be to reject the prophet. The scriptures are clear on the consequences of doing that. My recommendation would be to let the Lord judge the prophet, since it isn't our place to do so.
I don't disagree with him. The objective facts disagree with him. All cause mortality is up six sigmas in certain younger age categories. There are over one million serious adverse events and deaths in the VAERS database. Miscarriages are through the roof and fertility is down.

Meanwhile, they convinced many people who otherwise would not have taken those poisons to do so. And they used their priesthood calling to do it. If that isn't speaking falsely in the name of the Lord then what is?

I've been carefully studying the scriptures and I've found many verses that talk about prophets who will lie to Israel in the latter days. I haven't found a single scripture that talks about following a prophet who lied. In fact, all the passages I've seen make it sound like a sin to uphold such a man.

So where are these scriptures I'm missing? The ones about listening to Joseph Smith as he speaks under the influence of the Holy Ghost? That's fine. I read the Doctrine and Covenants and I believe it. But nowhere do I read that we are under any obligation to follow a man who is mistaken or lying.

In fact, Jesus taught in JST Mark 9:44, 46-47,
44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
In other words, seers can fall and we should only trust God and if they fall we should pluck them out.

I don't want to be contentious. I was right where you are feeling the same things. But the scriptures clearly didn't say what I thought they did. LDS non-scriptural traditions clouded my vision and it wasn't until I studied the scriptures and started to repent of my pride that I stated to understand these things.

When I started this thread I wanted to know how a just God could hold someone accountable for not following those men, given what God said in Ezekiel and Deuteronomy. Can you give me chapter and verse that explains your point of view?

Atrasado
captain of 100
Posts: 435

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:01 pm
Atrasado wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:17 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:58 am
Atrasado wrote: November 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm Deuteronomy 18:20-22 reads,



According to this, a prophet should only speak in the name of the Lord when the Lord so commands him to. Does the Lord give any ideas on how to know when a Prophet speaks presumptuously? Yes. Did the thing they said happen. That's all. Look at what they said and then see if it happened.

It doesn't say that we should pray to know if the prophet was directed to lie. It doesn't say to excuse him if the prophet was mistaken. It says that if a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord presumptuously that we are not to fear that prophet and that he will die.

The First Presidency sent the August letter on Church letterhead and used their positions to push the vaccines as safe and effective. Yet the vaccines are astoundingly unsafe and have negative efficacy. The data is quite clear on this despite all of the government propaganda.

So, how could the Lord hold us guilty for rejecting such a man when it was the Lord who told us to reject him?

JST Ezekiel 14:9 says,



How could the Lord hold us guilty for not holding with prophets, seers, and revelators who lie to us and continue in their lies? It seems that He would hold us guilty as well if we adhered to them still. After all, in the next verse the Lord says that the punishment of those who seek unto such prophets will be the same as the prophets. So how could the Lord condemn us for believing His word?

I don't want it thought that I hate the Church or want it destroyed. No, this isn't their Church and they don't control me or influence me anymore. I don't want the Lord's Church destroyed, I want it cleansed. And it will be cleansed, soon. No more shall the vile person be honored as godly. No more will these men deceive those who are too kind to suspect the truth.
There has been quite a lot written in all volumes of scripture regarding those who reject the prophets, and the outcome is never good. I think the Lord is quite clear in the scriptures regarding the standing of those who reject the prophets.

I also reject your proposal that prophets are perfect. That goes completely against everything taught throughout scripture. Prophets are fallible, fallen beings just like you and me.
I didn't say anything about prophets being perfect. And the Lord didn't say anything about it either. He just said that if the prophet speaks in My name there is no excuse for them to be wrong or mistaken, at all. Like any other person, the prophet will sin and make mistakes and must repent, but according to the Lord's word, there is no latitude for error when they speak in the Lord's name. I didn't write those things, Moses and Ezekiel did. Don't we live by every word of the Lord? Then why don't those scriptures matter to you?
At no point should our response ever be to reject the prophet. The scriptures are clear on the consequences of doing that. My recommendation would be to let the Lord judge the prophet, since it isn't our place to do so.
Strangely enough, the scriptures are full of things which are exactly the opposite of what you say in this paragraph. I've quoted God's word for you but unfortunately you won't accept it. We all believe what we want to believe.

Post Reply