Interesting Perspective on Trump

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briznian
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Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by briznian »

From John C. Wright's blog:
The fact that Trump never used the excuse handed to him with both hands to expand the reach of federal power beyond its constitutional limits during this alleged [Covid] emergency is as unusual and astonishing as George Washington refusing to be crowned, or Cincinnatus the Dictator of Rome returning quietly to work his farm.
Trump is many things, good and bad, and certainly made mistakes but to me this is an interesting thought to contemplate.

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Niemand
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Niemand »

The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.

endlessQuestions
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by endlessQuestions »

The two things mentioned here are pretty high on my list.

larsenb
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by larsenb »

Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 1:19 pm The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.
Certainly commendable, but he did other very good things, as well.

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Niemand
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Niemand »

larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 2:17 pm
Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 1:19 pm The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.
Certainly commendable, but he did other very good things, as well.
I think it's the most commendable thing. Americans tend to think in domestic terms, but this is the most significant internationally (and at home).

The most obvious issue is the industrialised murder of civilians, but there are others such as the mental and physical damage done to American service personnel which lasts decades; the fact that these actions send wave after wave of refugees out into the world (Europe especially) and also transfer tax payers' money into the pockets of evil kleptocrats

These wars also tend to breed resentment against the west rather than respect. Obama's hypocrisy was to bomb innocent people out of their homes and then invite them to live down the street while seething with rage against their new homeland.

larsenb
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by larsenb »

Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 3:27 pm
larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 2:17 pm
Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 1:19 pm The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.
Certainly commendable, but he did other very good things, as well.
I think it's the most commendable thing. Americans tend to think in domestic terms, but this is the most significant internationally (and at home).

The most obvious issue is the industrialised murder of civilians, but there are others such as the mental and physical damage done to American service personnel which lasts decades; the fact that these actions send wave after wave of refugees out into the world (Europe especially) and also transfer tax payers' money into the pockets of evil kleptocrats

These wars also tend to breed resentment against the west rather than respect. Obama's hypocrisy was to bomb innocent people out of their homes and then invite them to live down the street while seething with rage against their new homeland.
Can't disagree. Other good things Trump did in line with his essentially 'no war' stance, was to talk to a variety of leaders, even those we consider enemies. Face-to-face talks are always better than their absence.

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Niemand
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Niemand »

larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 3:49 pm
Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 3:27 pm
larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 2:17 pm
Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 1:19 pm The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.
Certainly commendable, but he did other very good things, as well.
I think it's the most commendable thing. Americans tend to think in domestic terms, but this is the most significant internationally (and at home).

The most obvious issue is the industrialised murder of civilians, but there are others such as the mental and physical damage done to American service personnel which lasts decades; the fact that these actions send wave after wave of refugees out into the world (Europe especially) and also transfer tax payers' money into the pockets of evil kleptocrats

These wars also tend to breed resentment against the west rather than respect. Obama's hypocrisy was to bomb innocent people out of their homes and then invite them to live down the street while seething with rage against their new homeland.
Can't disagree. Other good things Trump did in line with his essentially 'no war' stance, was to talk to a variety of leaders, even those we consider enemies. Face-to-face talks are always better than their absence.
I can't help thinking he would have dealt with Russia better. I heard him give a speech about Russia which gave out mixed messages, but I suspect he may have been able to damp the entire thing down... i.e. Russia keeps the Crimea and then work out some compromise on the eastern provinces.

I have severe misgivings about Trump for various reasons, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the Ukrainian War kicked off shortly after Biden got in.

larsenb
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by larsenb »

Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 3:55 pm
larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 3:49 pm
Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 3:27 pm
larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 2:17 pm
Certainly commendable, but he did other very good things, as well.
I think it's the most commendable thing. Americans tend to think in domestic terms, but this is the most significant internationally (and at home).

The most obvious issue is the industrialised murder of civilians, but there are others such as the mental and physical damage done to American service personnel which lasts decades; the fact that these actions send wave after wave of refugees out into the world (Europe especially) and also transfer tax payers' money into the pockets of evil kleptocrats

These wars also tend to breed resentment against the west rather than respect. Obama's hypocrisy was to bomb innocent people out of their homes and then invite them to live down the street while seething with rage against their new homeland.
Can't disagree. Other good things Trump did in line with his essentially 'no war' stance, was to talk to a variety of leaders, even those we consider enemies. Face-to-face talks are always better than their absence.
I can't help thinking he would have dealt with Russia better. I heard him give a speech about Russia which gave out mixed messages, but I suspect he may have been able to damp the entire thing down... i.e. Russia keeps the Crimea and then work out some compromise on the eastern provinces.

I have severe misgivings about Trump for various reasons, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the Ukrainian War kicked off shortly after Biden got in.
My sense is that Trump's tough stance against Russia (some rhetoric and certainly his trade embargoes/sanctions), had more to do with keeping the Russia-collusion charges, etc., against him at bay, than anything else.

My misgivings about Trump revolve mainly around some of the people he hired and allowed to be around him, and his stance in support of the clot-shots. Not much else. I personally loved how he would stand up to many of his constant bullies, and gave as good or better than he got (some of which was unnecessary and over-the-top). Of course his opposition calls this incivility, etc., etc.

I'll never forget how a prominent LDS apologist was exultant just after the 2020 election, about how we were now entering a period of civility and kindness, then proceeded to viciously and personally attack Trump.

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madvin
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by madvin »

larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 4:05 pm
My sense is that Trump's tough stance against Russia (some rhetoric and certainly his trade embargoes/sanctions), had more to do with keeping the Russia-collusion charges, etc., against him at bay, than anything else.

My misgivings about Trump revolve mainly around some of the people he hired and allowed to be around him, and his stance in support of the clot-shots. Not much else. I personally loved how he would stand up to many of his constant bullies, and gave as good or better than he got (some of which was unnecessary and over-the-top). Of course his opposition calls this incivility, etc., etc.

I'll never forget how a prominent LDS apologist was exultant just after the 2020 election, about how we were now entering a period of civility and kindness, then proceeded to viciously and personally attack Trump.
Yes! Agreed!

Another big one in my mind was him getting us out of the climate change talks in Paris (I think that’s where they were held).

Rubicon
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Rubicon »

He unilaterally moved the embassy to Jerusalem. No establishment Republican would have touched that. Many of his good things were because he wasn't beholden to the establishment. He has a lot of bad traits and baggage, too.

One thing I'm noticing is that while "converts" are knocked for hypocrisy (past liberalism), they often are more solid and reliable after the conversion. Many examples: Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, Kari Lake, Donald Trump. Even cynical, Machiavellian converts can be solid, because they are riding a wave and know what they are doing.

Christianlee
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Christianlee »

Trump did a great job as President until March 2020. He advocated lockdowns and criticized Governors Kemp and Abbott for ending them. He was completely played by Fauci, Birx and Big Pharma and his Covid emergency gave governors the excuse to implement mail-in voting which defeated him. His Operation Warp Speed gave us harmful and ineffective shots. Trump’s bad judgment in who he chose for his administration did him in. His mouth constantly gets him in trouble. He had great policies for three years, but completely blew 2020. He’s too old. He needs to go away.

larsenb
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by larsenb »

Rubicon wrote: November 10th, 2022, 6:48 pm He unilaterally moved the embassy to Jerusalem. No establishment Republican would have touched that. Many of his good things were because he wasn't beholden to the establishment. He has a lot of bad traits and baggage, too.

One thing I'm noticing is that while "converts" are knocked for hypocrisy (past liberalism), they often are more solid and reliable after the conversion. Many examples: Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, Kari Lake, Donald Trump. Even cynical, Machiavellian converts can be solid, because they are riding a wave and know what they are doing.
I generally agree. But those who have been close to DT for decades or have worked with him (e.g. Mel K), say the "bad traits and baggage" are greatly exaggerated and just the opposite from their direct experience with him. They also aver that he was generally too busy to do a particle of the things he's been accused of. I'm also generally very impressed by his kids (ref. Hunter B., anyone?) And many of the women accusing him of this or that, clustered around a particular rough period of his life, mid to late '90s.

At least one of these accusers (lawsuit for sexual harassment) was interviewed during the election and said she loved Trump and was going to vote for him, and had almost forgotten about her lawsuit, which her boyfriend had twisted her arm to file, who himself had been in a legal skirmish w Trump.

If Trump is anything, he's a target. I knew next to nothing about the man until 2016, but spent a LOT of time directly listening to him (not reading his Twitter tweets) in many different settings and venues, and came to the conclusion he was a very personable, strong-willed person, with excellent leadership traits and intelligence, and who most of the time was conducting himself perfectly. He also has a very good sense of humor, which is completely lacking in so many of our leaders.

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BroJones
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by BroJones »

Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 1:19 pm The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.
Yes.
Biden seems different, almost itching for war.

larsenb
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by larsenb »

BroJones wrote: November 10th, 2022, 10:21 pm
Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 1:19 pm The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.
Yes.
Biden seems different, almost itching for war.
It's his 'Neocon' flavor. They generally favor nation-building/regime changing and spreading our version of 'democracy' around the world. That's one reason Mitt Romney loves the man so much, and hates Trump.

Trump's National Security Advisor from 2018 to 2019, John Bolton was cut from the same cloth. One of Trump's hiring mistakes, though Trump said he only chose Bolton for this office, knowing he would be putting necessary pressure on Iran for Trump's purposes.

Ciams
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Ciams »

briznian wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:52 am From John C. Wright's blog:
The fact that Trump never used the excuse handed to him with both hands to expand the reach of federal power beyond its constitutional limits during this alleged [Covid] emergency is as unusual and astonishing as George Washington refusing to be crowned, or Cincinnatus the Dictator of Rome returning quietly to work his farm.
Trump is many things, good and bad, and certainly made mistakes but to me this is an interesting thought to contemplate.
Wait, what?

Trump stood by while states were shutting down under CDC guidance which he permitted.

Trump stood by and while masks were placed on kids.

Trump guaranteed billions of dollars for companies to rush vaccines to marker with no guarantee or liability for safety.

Trump pushed for the vaccine to be brought to market sooner.

Trump stood by while the military leaders made plans to force vaccines on its members.

Trump stood by while states planned to push vaccine mandates on various employees.

Trump stood by while airlines forced masks on us.

Trump called for direct cash payments to every man woman and child, drastically increasing the federal balance sheet and a direct transfer of power (future productivity) to the federal government, with later massive inflationary effects.

I can keep going...

Now, true, some things with the vaccine mandates happened after Trump was out of office, but everyone of us saw it coming.

Trump could have signed executive orders with regard to mandates on federal property, started the process to replace the head of the CDC via the HHS.

Trump could have ordered the FAA to disregard mask mandates.

On and on.

What's interesting on Trump is how my allegedly small government brothers and sisters are so enthralled with him all because he says make America great, doesn't like the Chinese, and insults his opponents.

larsenb
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by larsenb »

Ciams wrote: November 10th, 2022, 10:34 pm
briznian wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:52 am From John C. Wright's blog:
The fact that Trump never used the excuse handed to him with both hands to expand the reach of federal power beyond its constitutional limits during this alleged [Covid] emergency is as unusual and astonishing as George Washington refusing to be crowned, or Cincinnatus the Dictator of Rome returning quietly to work his farm.
Trump is many things, good and bad, and certainly made mistakes but to me this is an interesting thought to contemplate.
Wait, what?

Trump stood by while states were shutting down under CDC guidance which he permitted.

Trump stood by and while masks were placed on kids.

Trump guaranteed billions of dollars for companies to rush vaccines to marker with no guarantee or liability for safety.

Trump pushed for the vaccine to be brought to market sooner.

Trump stood by while the military leaders made plans to force vaccines on its members.

Trump stood by while states planned to push vaccine mandates on various employees.

Trump stood by while airlines forced masks on us.

Trump called for direct cash payments to every man woman and child, drastically increasing the federal balance sheet and a direct transfer of power (future productivity) to the federal government, with later massive inflationary effects.

I can keep going...

Now, true, some things with the vaccine mandates happened after Trump was out of office, but everyone of us saw it coming.

Trump could have signed executive orders with regard to mandates on federal property, started the process to replace the head of the CDC via the HHS.

Trump could have ordered the FAA to disregard mask mandates.

On and on.

What's interesting on Trump is how my allegedly small government brothers and sisters are so enthralled with him all because he says make America great, doesn't like the Chinese, and insults his opponents.
A lot of exaggerated claims here, most of which can't be laid directly to Trump, per se.

briznian
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by briznian »

Ciams wrote: November 10th, 2022, 10:34 pm
briznian wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:52 am From John C. Wright's blog:
The fact that Trump never used the excuse handed to him with both hands to expand the reach of federal power beyond its constitutional limits during this alleged [Covid] emergency is as unusual and astonishing as George Washington refusing to be crowned, or Cincinnatus the Dictator of Rome returning quietly to work his farm.
Trump is many things, good and bad, and certainly made mistakes but to me this is an interesting thought to contemplate.
Wait, what?

Trump stood by while states were shutting down under CDC guidance which he permitted.

Trump stood by and while masks were placed on kids.

Trump guaranteed billions of dollars for companies to rush vaccines to marker with no guarantee or liability for safety.

Trump pushed for the vaccine to be brought to market sooner.

Trump stood by while the military leaders made plans to force vaccines on its members.

Trump stood by while states planned to push vaccine mandates on various employees.

Trump stood by while airlines forced masks on us.

Trump called for direct cash payments to every man woman and child, drastically increasing the federal balance sheet and a direct transfer of power (future productivity) to the federal government, with later massive inflationary effects.

I can keep going...

Now, true, some things with the vaccine mandates happened after Trump was out of office, but everyone of us saw it coming.

Trump could have signed executive orders with regard to mandates on federal property, started the process to replace the head of the CDC via the HHS.

Trump could have ordered the FAA to disregard mask mandates.

On and on.

What's interesting on Trump is how my allegedly small government brothers and sisters are so enthralled with him all because he says make America great, doesn't like the Chinese, and insults his opponents.
I think most of your points seem to underscore the original assertion.

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FreedomJess
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by FreedomJess »

There is a much bigger picture going on.

Ask yourself: If Trump stopped all of these things from happening before the people (who are largely asleep and naive... and I would argue that Mormons are some of the most asleep) actually saw with their own eyes how these bad people tried to take all of our freedoms away, would you have believed it could get this bad?

If someone told you 5 years ago that there would be a fake pandemic because of a virus released from a lab in China and we’d be forced to wear masks to go to the store, to church, on a plane... that our kids would have to wear them to go to school... that they’d try and force people to get a vaccine... I could go on... would you believe it?

Would you believe how bad Big Pharma is if the vaccine wasn’t aloud to be rolled out? We always had our choice to take it. Unfortunately, there are casualties in every war... and that’s what we are in: A war! But exposing Big Pharma had to be done. And Trump couldn’t just say: “Big Pharma is bad, trust me.” Western medicine, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies are a literal religion to so many people! They would have never believed him. Fast forward to the present: it’s pretty much a known thing that Big Pharma is bad. All thanks to what the people have EXPERIENCED.
Unfortunately, people had to actually see it.

I woke up because these things were “aloud” to happen. Nobody hated the Covid lies and tyranny more than me. But 2 years later I can honestly say I’m grateful for it because I can see so clearly now. The lies they’ve told us go way beyond the Big Lie of 2020.

The people of the world waking up to our awful situation is the bad guys’ biggest fear and the ONLY way we win this war. The purpose of everything we are witnessing is to wake up the people.
I’d say it’s working. Wouldn’t you?

You people that hate Trump...he’s one man fighting a 95% corrupt Washington DC and a nation of people who have been lured to sleep by a fake media for decades. He fought/fights many battles on many fronts. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised how it all turns out. But the people are the key. The people UNITED. Not divided. They have divided us for too long: political parties, religion, race... it’s all how they make us keep fighting each other. But we really should be fighting THEM. And that’s how the tides are turning now... because now we are starting to see the big picture.
I’m a Trump girl. I admit it. Which, on this forum , is harder to say than: “I think RMN is a deep state agent.” Lol
The good news: We shall see who is “right” soon enough I believe.

Christianlee
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Christianlee »

FreedomJess wrote: November 11th, 2022, 2:33 am There is a much bigger picture going on.

Ask yourself: If Trump stopped all of these things from happening before the people (who are largely asleep and naive... and I would argue that Mormons are some of the most asleep) actually saw with their own eyes how these bad people tried to take all of our freedoms away, would you have believed it could get this bad?

If someone told you 5 years ago that there would be a fake pandemic because of a virus released from a lab in China and we’d be forced to wear masks to go to the store, to church, on a plane... that our kids would have to wear them to go to school... that they’d try and force people to get a vaccine... I could go on... would you believe it?

Would you believe how bad Big Pharma is if the vaccine wasn’t aloud to be rolled out? We always had our choice to take it. Unfortunately, there are casualties in every war... and that’s what we are in: A war! But exposing Big Pharma had to be done. And Trump couldn’t just say: “Big Pharma is bad, trust me.” Western medicine, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies are a literal religion to so many people! They would have never believed him. Fast forward to the present: it’s pretty much a known thing that Big Pharma is bad. All thanks to what the people have EXPERIENCED.
Unfortunately, people had to actually see it.

I woke up because these things were “aloud” to happen. Nobody hated the Covid lies and tyranny more than me. But 2 years later I can honestly say I’m grateful for it because I can see so clearly now. The lies they’ve told us go way beyond the Big Lie of 2020.

The people of the world waking up to our awful situation is the bad guys’ biggest fear and the ONLY way we win this war. The purpose of everything we are witnessing is to wake up the people.
I’d say it’s working. Wouldn’t you?

You people that hate Trump...he’s one man fighting a 95% corrupt Washington DC and a nation of people who have been lured to sleep by a fake media for decades. He fought/fights many battles on many fronts. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised how it all turns out. But the people are the key. The people UNITED. Not divided. They have divided us for too long: political parties, religion, race... it’s all how they make us keep fighting each other. But we really should be fighting THEM. And that’s how the tides are turning now... because now we are starting to see the big picture.
I’m a Trump girl. I admit it. Which, on this forum , is harder to say than: “I think RMN is a deep state agent.” Lol
The good news: We shall see who is “right” soon enough I believe.
I suppose that is a positive view of Trump’s shortcomings. I think it is naive to think Trump’s Covid policies were his way to make Big Pharma look bad. He still brags about how great Operation Warp Speed was which shows he hasn’t learned much.

Trump will be 78 in 2024. His judgment and health will only get worse as he gets older. It is time to turn the page on baby boomer politicians. We don’t need to take the chance that we will have another senile President in office. I am grateful for Trump’s accomplishments in the first three years of his Presidency. I don’t think a second act will be as successful.

Christianlee
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Christianlee »

larsenb wrote: November 10th, 2022, 10:30 pm
BroJones wrote: November 10th, 2022, 10:21 pm
Niemand wrote: November 10th, 2022, 1:19 pm The best thing that can be said about Trump is that he didn't keep starting wars.
Yes.
Biden seems different, almost itching for war.
It's his 'Neocon' flavor. They generally favor nation-building/regime changing and spreading our version of 'democracy' around the world. That's one reason Mitt Romney loves the man so much, and hates Trump.

Trump's National Security Advisor from 2018 to 2019, John Bolton was cut from the same cloth. One of Trump's hiring mistakes, though Trump said he only chose Bolton for this office, knowing he would be putting necessary pressure on Iran for Trump's purposes.
Trump hired a lot of people who turned on him.

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Niemand
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Niemand »

A lot of people still think Big Pharma is good. Even now.

Ciams
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Ciams »

briznian wrote: November 11th, 2022, 1:52 am
Ciams wrote: November 10th, 2022, 10:34 pm
briznian wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:52 am From John C. Wright's blog:
The fact that Trump never used the excuse handed to him with both hands to expand the reach of federal power beyond its constitutional limits during this alleged [Covid] emergency is as unusual and astonishing as George Washington refusing to be crowned, or Cincinnatus the Dictator of Rome returning quietly to work his farm.
Trump is many things, good and bad, and certainly made mistakes but to me this is an interesting thought to contemplate.
Wait, what?

Trump stood by while states were shutting down under CDC guidance which he permitted.

Trump stood by and while masks were placed on kids.

Trump guaranteed billions of dollars for companies to rush vaccines to marker with no guarantee or liability for safety.

Trump pushed for the vaccine to be brought to market sooner.

Trump stood by while the military leaders made plans to force vaccines on its members.

Trump stood by while states planned to push vaccine mandates on various employees.

Trump stood by while airlines forced masks on us.

Trump called for direct cash payments to every man woman and child, drastically increasing the federal balance sheet and a direct transfer of power (future productivity) to the federal government, with later massive inflationary effects.

I can keep going...

Now, true, some things with the vaccine mandates happened after Trump was out of office, but everyone of us saw it coming.

Trump could have signed executive orders with regard to mandates on federal property, started the process to replace the head of the CDC via the HHS.

Trump could have ordered the FAA to disregard mask mandates.

On and on.

What's interesting on Trump is how my allegedly small government brothers and sisters are so enthralled with him all because he says make America great, doesn't like the Chinese, and insults his opponents.
I think most of your points seem to underscore the original assertion.
A leader leads. He stood by while the list I provided occurred. Open your eyes.

A leader doesn't hire a bunch of people to world class paying jobs (ie, he had limitless talent pool) and have to fire them or have them "turn" on them. One or two is an anomaly. Dozens is a pattern.

Just to make it clear, what executive orders did Trump write against shutdowns? Against the CDC, etc. If he was powerless he did nothing with the power, against these catastrophe so why argue for him to be in power.

DeSantis for instance did a lot on these issues. Trump did little. Open your eyes!

The economic boom was the result of the initial pro business tax cuts. Massive gains. Then Trump went aggressive against China (no love for China by me!), by TAXING Americans who buy from China and giving that money to the federal government....uhhh thats growing government. It had nothing to do with protecting American jobs to make Americans pay more when they buy from China but pay less when they buy from India, Vietnam, Pakistan, the list goes on and on.

Every Trump policy he thought of that comes to mind was a disaster. He's still a hot mess not only dragging down the candidates he "supports", but he's dragging down the brains of the good people here and elsewhere who are still blinded by their zeal towards him.

I can identify his good policies and actions. Most of them came early on when others were steering the ship. The good things be was in favor of (oil exploration) he botched so badly as a leader by neglecting to shore up defenses around them to prevent their dismantling on day 1 from his opponents. There is plenty of money and support to drill/refine/explore. Trump didn't lead any of those resources to lasting security.

Trump was either an empty chair or absent at the wheel during Covid which response led to shortages, gradual destruction of the American workforce and productivity, inflation, and mass psychological issues.

We will never in our lifetimes be free of the negative consequences of Trump. The various policy achievements are already most undone.

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Niemand
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Niemand »

Ciams wrote: November 11th, 2022, 4:53 am Then Trump went aggressive against China (no love for China by me!), by TAXING Americans who buy from China and giving that money to the federal government....uhhh thats growing government. It had nothing to do with protecting American jobs to make Americans pay more when they buy from China but pay less when they buy from India, Vietnam, Pakistan, the list goes on and on.
It's kind of difficult NOT to buy from China these days. In a way it would be good if more third world manufacturing went to places like India and even Vietnam. These countries have governments which are less tyrannical than China's and do not have much in the way of state-sponsored slavery.

Westerners made a mistake in allowing the CCP to gain the whiphand in manufacturing. I think some forces thought by making China wealthier and more interdependent (to use their buzzword) that they would make it more tractable. I don't think that has happened. I don't believe even the likes of the CFR, WEF and Bilderbergers etc have complete control over the CCP, because they know they can turn on them. The CCP has much more of a gangster culture, as does Russia, which means that they are more formidable and duplicitous than the soft handed globalists of the west. People think globalists are a united force, when it's more like the Mafia – your former allies and advisors can stab you in the back at any given time when you cease to be useful or show weakness.

Ciams
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Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by Ciams »

Niemand wrote: November 11th, 2022, 5:05 am
Ciams wrote: November 11th, 2022, 4:53 am Then Trump went aggressive against China (no love for China by me!), by TAXING Americans who buy from China and giving that money to the federal government....uhhh thats growing government. It had nothing to do with protecting American jobs to make Americans pay more when they buy from China but pay less when they buy from India, Vietnam, Pakistan, the list goes on and on.
It's kind of difficult NOT to buy from China these days. In a way it would be good if more third world manufacturing went to places like India and even Vietnam. These countries have governments which are less tyrannical than China's and do not have much in the way of state-sponsored slavery.

Westerners made a mistake in allowing the CCP to gain the whiphand in manufacturing. I think some forces thought by making China wealthier and more interdependent (to use their buzzword) that they would make it more tractable. I don't think that has happened. I don't believe even the likes of the CFR, WEF and Bilderbergers etc have complete control over the CCP, because they know they can turn on them. The CCP has much more of a gangster culture, as does Russia, which means that they are more formidable and duplicitous than the soft handed globalists of the west. People think globalists are a united force, when it's more like the Mafia – your former allies and advisors can stab you in the back at any given time when you cease to be useful or show weakness.
Trump never made the argument that "American jobs" should go to Pakistan instead of China. He framed his tax increases on US consumers as targeting China in an America first rationale.

If he made the case that we should shut down trade with China to isolate a bad nation, or even heavily tax US consumers who buy Chinese made products to encourage production to shift to other less hostile foreign nations, that's one thing. But he issued waivers against select products (phones) that benefit the Chinese the most (higher price, higher tech) and targeted the less connected industries with high taxes on Americans claiming it was good for Americans and American jobs.

I'm in favor of Trump winding down US foreign entanglements. In favor of less government bureacrats, lower taxes. In favor of originalist judges. But that's most of the good Trump did, and most of it is already offset with his squandered victory after the first few months (outside of some important later term judicial appointments which have helped this nation).

larsenb
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: Interesting Perspective on Trump

Post by larsenb »

FreedomJess wrote: November 11th, 2022, 2:33 am There is a much bigger picture going on.

Ask yourself: If Trump stopped all of these things from happening before the people (who are largely asleep and naive... and I would argue that Mormons are some of the most asleep) actually saw with their own eyes how these bad people tried to take all of our freedoms away, would you have believed it could get this bad?

If someone told you 5 years ago that there would be a fake pandemic because of a virus released from a lab in China and we’d be forced to wear masks to go to the store, to church, on a plane... that our kids would have to wear them to go to school... that they’d try and force people to get a vaccine... I could go on... would you believe it?

Would you believe how bad Big Pharma is if the vaccine wasn’t aloud to be rolled out? We always had our choice to take it. Unfortunately, there are casualties in every war... and that’s what we are in: A war! But exposing Big Pharma had to be done. And Trump couldn’t just say: “Big Pharma is bad, trust me.” Western medicine, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies are a literal religion to so many people! They would have never believed him. Fast forward to the present: it’s pretty much a known thing that Big Pharma is bad. All thanks to what the people have EXPERIENCED.
Unfortunately, people had to actually see it.

I woke up because these things were “aloud” to happen. Nobody hated the Covid lies and tyranny more than me. But 2 years later I can honestly say I’m grateful for it because I can see so clearly now. The lies they’ve told us go way beyond the Big Lie of 2020.

The people of the world waking up to our awful situation is the bad guys’ biggest fear and the ONLY way we win this war. The purpose of everything we are witnessing is to wake up the people.
I’d say it’s working. Wouldn’t you?

You people that hate Trump...he’s one man fighting a 95% corrupt Washington DC and a nation of people who have been lured to sleep by a fake media for decades. He fought/fights many battles on many fronts. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised how it all turns out. But the people are the key. The people UNITED. Not divided. They have divided us for too long: political parties, religion, race... it’s all how they make us keep fighting each other. But we really should be fighting THEM. And that’s how the tides are turning now... because now we are starting to see the big picture.
I’m a Trump girl. I admit it. Which, on this forum , is harder to say than: “I think RMN is a deep state agent.” Lol
The good news: We shall see who is “right” soon enough I believe.
In keeping with what you are saying, sometime in 2019, as I recall, Trump came out with a very peculiar but telling 'statement', where he basically said he had run into powerful people, rich beyond imagination that were involved in some kind of manipulation that was affecting him and his presidency, etc. He hinted that he was going to elaborate later on what he said, but I don't recall him following through.

Anyone recall this and perhaps have a transcript?

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