The Restoration is a process...

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Seeker144k
captain of 100
Posts: 337

The Restoration is a process...

Post by Seeker144k »

It is like President Nelson has said, "The Restoration is a process, not a event." There are some pretty scary things coming and also some amazing things coming. There are some big things coming some thing i know and some i dont. I cant wait to see some of it and some things i am scared to death of.....
If he is talking about the restoration of all things, then I think there is room to discuss what that means.

If he is saying that the fulness of the Gospel hasn't yet been restored? Then he is contradicting the scriptures and the Lord who said that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the Gospel and that it was already restored and had by the people in the early days of the modern church.

Example 1:
The Book of Mormon was published in March of 1830. In that published state, the Lord said that it contains the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
D&C 42
12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.
D&C 20
8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;
9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;
D&C 135
3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!
Example 2:
December 7, 1830 - The Lord said in D&C 35 that he has already sent forth the fulness of the Gospel to this generation through Joseph Smith.
D&C 35
12 And there are none that doeth good except those who are ready to receive the fulness of my gospel, which I have sent forth unto this generation.
...
17 And I have sent forth the fulness of my gospel by the hand of my servant Joseph; and in weakness have I blessed him;
This is one of many examples where the Lord said that the fulness of the Gospel was already given to the early Church. The Lord made this claim the same year the church was organized, before most of the revelations recorded in the D&C were received. This not only tells us that we have the fulness of the Gospel today, but that we already had it in 1830, before revelations like tithing, the word of wisdom and the endowment were given.
  • This was 3 years before the Word of Wisdom was given - 1833 - Not part of the fulness of the Gospel
  • This was 8 years before receiving the Law of Tithing - July 8, 1838 - Not part of the Fulness of the Gospel
  • This was 12 years before the endowment - 1842 - Not part of the Fulness of the Gospel
There are several scriptures before the Book of Mormon is published where the Lord promises that they will receive the fulness of his gospel and should not go out and preach until they do. Then there are even more scriptures after the Book of Mormon was published where the Lord says You now have the fulness of my gospel, go preach it. I included just the one above to keep my post short.

There is another point I'd like to make that is relevant here. The Fulness of the Gospel is preached over and over in the Book of Mormon, but when Moroni visited Joseph Smith and told him about the Book of Mormon, he pointed specifically to the chapters where Jesus Christ personally taught the fulness of his Gospel in the Book of Mormon.
JSH 1
34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
This means that Jesus Christ personally taught the Fulness of the Gospel somewhere in the chapters where he was personally present, (3 Nephi 9 through 28). If there is a teaching that is not included in those chapters, then it cannot possibly be part of the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or Moroni was wrong.

So, while the restoration of all things may continue, the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was already restored by 1830 when the church was first organized. And of course that must be the case because Jesus said in the scriptures that if we teach more or less than his doctrines and Gospel then it isn't his church. So, how could the church be organized as his church if it didn't first have the fulness of his gospel.

~Seeker

blitzinstripes
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2294

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by blitzinstripes »

Nelson is speaking cryptically of the church's eventual announcement of gay temple marriages.

It's coming. And they're gonna try to sell it as part of the "restoration" of the fullness of the gospel.

I'm not going to buy it. Are you?

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Subcomandante
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4410

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by Subcomandante »

blitzinstripes wrote: November 9th, 2022, 5:20 pm Nelson is speaking cryptically of the church's eventual announcement of gay temple marriages.

It's coming. And they're gonna try to sell it as part of the "restoration" of the fullness of the gospel.

I'm not going to buy it. Are you?
Church-sanctioned, gay temple marriages will NEVER happen.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by Mamabear »

Subcomandante wrote: November 9th, 2022, 5:27 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: November 9th, 2022, 5:20 pm Nelson is speaking cryptically of the church's eventual announcement of gay temple marriages.

It's coming. And they're gonna try to sell it as part of the "restoration" of the fullness of the gospel.

I'm not going to buy it. Are you?
Church-sanctioned, gay temple marriages will NEVER happen.
Yes they will because of trans people.

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InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Subcomandante wrote: November 9th, 2022, 5:27 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: November 9th, 2022, 5:20 pm Nelson is speaking cryptically of the church's eventual announcement of gay temple marriages.

It's coming. And they're gonna try to sell it as part of the "restoration" of the fullness of the gospel.

I'm not going to buy it. Are you?
Church-sanctioned, gay temple marriages will NEVER happen.
Agenda 2030, which they officially signed onto to implement, says that gender equality is one of the main pillars.... so... yes, they will eventually get to that point.

Here is a tiny morsel of a taste of what is to come:

Our church now permits members to put their preferred pronouns on their membership records.


Image

Chris
captain of 100
Posts: 319

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by Chris »

Seeker144k wrote: November 9th, 2022, 2:55 pm
It is like President Nelson has said, "The Restoration is a process, not a event." There are some pretty scary things coming and also some amazing things coming. There are some big things coming some thing i know and some i dont. I cant wait to see some of it and some things i am scared to death of.....
If he is talking about the restoration of all things, then I think there is room to discuss what that means.

If he is saying that the fulness of the Gospel hasn't yet been restored? Then he is contradicting the scriptures and the Lord who said that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the Gospel and that it was already restored and had by the people in the early days of the modern church.

Example 1:
The Book of Mormon was published in March of 1830. In that published state, the Lord said that it contains the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
D&C 42
12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.
D&C 20
8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;
9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;
D&C 135
3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!
Example 2:
December 7, 1830 - The Lord said in D&C 35 that he has already sent forth the fulness of the Gospel to this generation through Joseph Smith.
D&C 35
12 And there are none that doeth good except those who are ready to receive the fulness of my gospel, which I have sent forth unto this generation.
...
17 And I have sent forth the fulness of my gospel by the hand of my servant Joseph; and in weakness have I blessed him;
This is one of many examples where the Lord said that the fulness of the Gospel was already given to the early Church. The Lord made this claim the same year the church was organized, before most of the revelations recorded in the D&C were received. This not only tells us that we have the fulness of the Gospel today, but that we already had it in 1830, before revelations like tithing, the word of wisdom and the endowment were given.
  • This was 3 years before the Word of Wisdom was given - 1833 - Not part of the fulness of the Gospel
  • This was 8 years before receiving the Law of Tithing - July 8, 1838 - Not part of the Fulness of the Gospel
  • This was 12 years before the endowment - 1842 - Not part of the Fulness of the Gospel
There are several scriptures before the Book of Mormon is published where the Lord promises that they will receive the fulness of his gospel and should not go out and preach until they do. Then there are even more scriptures after the Book of Mormon was published where the Lord says You now have the fulness of my gospel, go preach it. I included just the one above to keep my post short.

There is another point I'd like to make that is relevant here. The Fulness of the Gospel is preached over and over in the Book of Mormon, but when Moroni visited Joseph Smith and told him about the Book of Mormon, he pointed specifically to the chapters where Jesus Christ personally taught the fulness of his Gospel in the Book of Mormon.
JSH 1
34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
This means that Jesus Christ personally taught the Fulness of the Gospel somewhere in the chapters where he was personally present, (3 Nephi 9 through 28). If there is a teaching that is not included in those chapters, then it cannot possibly be part of the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or Moroni was wrong.

So, while the restoration of all things may continue, the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was already restored by 1830 when the church was first organized. And of course that must be the case because Jesus said in the scriptures that if we teach more or less than his doctrines and Gospel then it isn't his church. So, how could the church be organized as his church if it didn't first have the fulness of his gospel.

~Seeker
I largly agree with you. Yes the fullness has been restored as we all know and christ and church teach the fulness. However as president nelson has said the restoration is a process.

Revelations chapter 12 is part of what i and president nelson are talking about. The woman is the church, the child the birth of zion. Lots of changes come with zion.

As we. The church and the kingdom roll into the millenium there will be new opportunities and powers that come to the faithful. And as president nelson said privelages.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Chris wrote: November 9th, 2022, 5:39 pm
Seeker144k wrote: November 9th, 2022, 2:55 pm
It is like President Nelson has said, "The Restoration is a process, not a event." There are some pretty scary things coming and also some amazing things coming. There are some big things coming some thing i know and some i dont. I cant wait to see some of it and some things i am scared to death of.....
If he is talking about the restoration of all things, then I think there is room to discuss what that means.

If he is saying that the fulness of the Gospel hasn't yet been restored? Then he is contradicting the scriptures and the Lord who said that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the Gospel and that it was already restored and had by the people in the early days of the modern church.

Example 1:
The Book of Mormon was published in March of 1830. In that published state, the Lord said that it contains the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
D&C 42
12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.
D&C 20
8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;
9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;
D&C 135
3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!
Example 2:
December 7, 1830 - The Lord said in D&C 35 that he has already sent forth the fulness of the Gospel to this generation through Joseph Smith.
D&C 35
12 And there are none that doeth good except those who are ready to receive the fulness of my gospel, which I have sent forth unto this generation.
...
17 And I have sent forth the fulness of my gospel by the hand of my servant Joseph; and in weakness have I blessed him;
This is one of many examples where the Lord said that the fulness of the Gospel was already given to the early Church. The Lord made this claim the same year the church was organized, before most of the revelations recorded in the D&C were received. This not only tells us that we have the fulness of the Gospel today, but that we already had it in 1830, before revelations like tithing, the word of wisdom and the endowment were given.
  • This was 3 years before the Word of Wisdom was given - 1833 - Not part of the fulness of the Gospel
  • This was 8 years before receiving the Law of Tithing - July 8, 1838 - Not part of the Fulness of the Gospel
  • This was 12 years before the endowment - 1842 - Not part of the Fulness of the Gospel
There are several scriptures before the Book of Mormon is published where the Lord promises that they will receive the fulness of his gospel and should not go out and preach until they do. Then there are even more scriptures after the Book of Mormon was published where the Lord says You now have the fulness of my gospel, go preach it. I included just the one above to keep my post short.

There is another point I'd like to make that is relevant here. The Fulness of the Gospel is preached over and over in the Book of Mormon, but when Moroni visited Joseph Smith and told him about the Book of Mormon, he pointed specifically to the chapters where Jesus Christ personally taught the fulness of his Gospel in the Book of Mormon.
JSH 1
34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
This means that Jesus Christ personally taught the Fulness of the Gospel somewhere in the chapters where he was personally present, (3 Nephi 9 through 28). If there is a teaching that is not included in those chapters, then it cannot possibly be part of the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or Moroni was wrong.

So, while the restoration of all things may continue, the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was already restored by 1830 when the church was first organized. And of course that must be the case because Jesus said in the scriptures that if we teach more or less than his doctrines and Gospel then it isn't his church. So, how could the church be organized as his church if it didn't first have the fulness of his gospel.

~Seeker
I largly agree with you. Yes the fullness has been restored as we all know and christ and church teach the fulness. However as president nelson has said the restoration is a process.

Revelations chapter 12 is part of what i and president nelson are talking about. The woman is the church, the child the birth of zion. Lots of changes come with zion.

As we. The church and the kingdom roll into the millenium there will be new opportunities and powers that come to the faithful. And as president nelson said privelages.

It's like pulling teeth to try and understand what these men mean most of the time. And it's done on purpose. Obfuscation and ambiguity. The name of the game, so that the game can continue indefinitely.

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Mindfields
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Posts: 1869
Location: Utah

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by Mindfields »

Nelson's continuing restoration is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as it begins to fill with water and sinks. Nothing of substance or meaningful in any way whatsoever.

Letfreedumbring
captain of 100
Posts: 267

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by Letfreedumbring »

Since I have not seen one event of actual revelation in last 175 years, what events are being talked about here?

Policy changes are not revelations especially when it saves an organization from embarrassment (see Starbucks, Philadelphia 2018)

Revelations are what the name implies uncovering or revealing that which was hidden and not previously known.
Provide me with such an event and then we can talk about a process.

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BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
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Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Letfreedumbring wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:41 pm Since I have not seen one event of actual revelation in last 175 years, what events are being talked about here?

Policy changes are not revelations especially when it saves an organization from embarrassment (see Starbucks, Philadelphia 2018)

Revelations are what the name implies uncovering or revealing that which was hidden and not previously known.
Provide me with such an event and then we can talk about a process.
What about inviting a Spirit to respond with an earthquake of specific magnitude?

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hedgehog
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Posts: 756
Location: Discworld

Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by hedgehog »

I will seriously try to judge it by the merits and listen to the spirit when it happens. But church leaders embracing the cultural marxism plan of pronoun posturing only after it is worldly popular/fad, is giving me Denethor vibes not sealed parts of the golden plates and adam-ondi-ahman meeting vibes. fwiw Hope I am wrong.

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BeNotDeceived
Agent38
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Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Mindfields wrote: November 10th, 2022, 4:53 am Nelson's continuing restoration is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as it begins to fill with water and sinks. Nothing of substance or meaningful in any way whatsoever.
The ship ran aground in the 1830s.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The Restoration is a process...

Post by SJR3t2 »

A big focus in this post is that BoM states JS did not restore everything.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2020/06/20/much ... -dc-13240/

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