What does “Families are forever” even mean?

[Alexander]

The question is in the title.

I understand a how a marital union could develop into a binding dyadic complementarity of deific man and woman, however the idea of temporal family units (father and mother to temporal children) as temporary placements becoming eternal in the hereafter seems rather fuddled.
How do you and your father/mother become sempiternally linked in that exact relation?

If it’s a transmigrational reiteration in another temporal world in those same roles, what benefit is it for my father to remain my father? Can my father be birthed again and become my descendant at some future time down the familial line in another incarnation? Does “temple sealing” stop this from happening? Why does this even matter?



If it’s an eternal spiritual tethering, does my temporal father become my Heavenly Father? How do temporal children to a temporal father and mother move with their deified temporal father and mother (who are now generating, or rather organizing, new progeny from intelligence) into a new eternal round?

Is Jesus the son of God in that he was a temporal son of his temporal father, and his temporal father became God, thus he became the son of God? Or is his relationship with his father the same as we have when we are born again in Christ and become Jesus’ sons and daughters (as in his Father is his God or redeemer God)?

Where does the fact of regeneration play as you are birthed by Christ, you becoming his sons and daughters, in this view of “eternal families”?

If I’m not sealed to my father, was he never my temporal father to begin with? What is an “eternal family”? If my mom dies, and she wasn't sealed to me, and I go to heaven, will she not recognize me as her son?

Why do temporal families need to remain in the organization they were in telestiality? If my father becomes reborn in Christ, and I become reborn in Christ, doesn't this kind of nullify any "eternal" ties from "temple sealings"? We are both eternally sealed sons to Christ, as in Christ is our Father. If my mother is saved in Christ, and I'm saved in Christ, won't we be together forever in Christ? Why do I need a "temple sealing"?

[Shawn Henry]

I had to look up dyaladic, apparently, it's a popular male escort service.

[Shawn Henry]

Families are Forever is just a catchy sales pitch. The sales guy got his foot in the door and it was game over.

Living in the same mansion in heaven as your parents would be hell, not heaven. If you are not sealed to them, you can still visit them as often as you want, just like here on earth. No need for a sealing. Same thing for brother and sis, you'll only want to visit them as much as you do now, so why a sealing? Do sealings include relationship counselors that force you to visit more often?

Anyone who wants to be sealed to their parents is insane. I hope you get your wish and are trapped in the same mansion forever. We'll call it Hotel California.

Sealing was originally the carrot on the end of the polygamy stick, the reward for marrying a high-ranking leader. The sealing, as initially pitched, guaranteed that that righteous high leader would automatically pull you into the Celestial Kingdom. This incentive helped entice members into polygamy.

[jreuben]

@Shawn Henry, you are a sick sick sick person and clearly must have severely dysfunctional familial relations if you really feel such things as you're saying there. I'm truly sorry for you and your family if you don't want to be so closely associated with your parents and family in the eternities to come. This really makes my heart hurt to hear that you have had such an experience to seemingly actually believe this - especially within the beautiful supernal context of eternity and fully understanding each others' minds.

I and our entire family - parents and children - want to live together and be closely associated forever. We believe in the family as it was practiced for millennia where families and extended families live together and/or in close proximity. We need to really fix families and end this current bastardized structure of children "going out" and making "their own families" as has been the luciferian practice over the past century or so.

[JandD6572]

Families are Forever is just a catchy sales pitch. The sales guy got his foot in the door and it was game over.

Living in the same mansion in heaven as your parents would be hell, not heaven. If you are not sealed to them, you can still visit them as often as you want, just like here on earth. No need for a sealing. Same thing for brother and sis, you'll only want to visit them as much as you do now, so why a sealing? Do sealings include relationship counselors that force you to visit more often?

Anyone who wants to be sealed to their parents is insane. I hope you get your wish and are trapped in the same mansion forever. We'll call it Hotel California.

Sealing was originally the carrot on the end of the polygamy stick, the reward for marrying a high-ranking leader. The sealing, as initially pitched, guaranteed that that righteous high leader would automatically pull you into the Celestial Kingdom. This incentive helped entice members into polygamy.

So, is it possible to still be married to my wife in the hereafter if I did not go through the temple sealing with her? in fact, we are no longer members, we never were sealed. I just have a hard time believing God would separate us at death, just because we did not go through a temple.

[ransomme]

I think that it is almost entirely a marketing ploy. And in all practicality it is a huge distraction from the Gospel of Christ.

The Lord's stated purposes of the Temple are primarily for the living. Somehow they have been twisted (IMHO) into 99% of the time, works for the dead. Modern LDS temple work seems to me like a huge malinvestment of effort, time, money, etc. Imagine taking the man-hours of service, the money to build and run the ultra-fine sanctuaries and redirecting those things into the service of our living neighbors... The world would be a better place.

[Jonesy]

I’ve always been a little jealous of the Latino culture of close families. They seem to get it. Even if it’s dysfunctional, they take care of each other. And in a strong unit, it only branches outward to the community.

[ransomme]

Truthfully I don't get the purpose of sealing earthly bonds.
1) Things in mortality are just too chaotic
2) We are acting under a veil where our minds are literally darkened.
3) Therefore, often to me it equates to a practice that lacks informed consent
4) Mortality is just an insanely brief moment of existence/eternity. Too brief to base the rest of eternity on it.

Does that make sense?

[Mamabear]

The question is in the title.

I understand a how a marital union could develop into a binding dyadic complementarity of deific man and woman, however the idea of temporal family units (father and mother to temporal children) as temporary placements becoming eternal in the hereafter seems rather fuddled.
How do you and your father/mother become sempiternally linked in that exact relation?

If it’s a transmigrational reiteration in another temporal world in those same roles, what benefit is it for my father to remain my father? Can my father be birthed again and become my descendant at some future time down the familial line in another incarnation? Does “temple sealing” stop this from happening? Why does this even matter?



If it’s an eternal spiritual tethering, does my temporal father become my Heavenly Father? How do temporal children to a temporal father and mother move with their deified temporal father and mother (who are now generating, or rather organizing, new progeny from intelligence) into a new eternal round?

Is Jesus the son of God in that he was a temporal son of his temporal father, and his temporal father became God, thus he became the son of God? Or is his relationship with his father the same as we have when we are born again in Christ and become Jesus’ sons and daughters (as in his Father is his God or redeemer God)?

Where does the fact of regeneration play as you are birthed by Christ, you becoming his sons and daughters, in this view of “eternal families”?

If I’m not sealed to my father, was he never my temporal father to begin with? What is an “eternal family”? If my mom dies, and she wasn't sealed to me, and I go to heaven, will she not recognize me as her son?

Why do temporal families need to remain in the organization they were in telestiality? If my father becomes reborn in Christ, and I become reborn in Christ, doesn't this kind of nullify any "eternal" ties from "temple sealings"? We are both eternally sealed sons to Christ, as in Christ is our Father. If my mother is saved in Christ, and I'm saved in Christ, won't we be together forever in Christ? Why do I need a "temple sealing"?

Love your questions. We will be saved in Christ and we will be together….He doesn’t need our help, he can do all things and His plan is simple and plain, everything is through Him. But man resurrected meaningless laws that are unnecessary, counterfeit that people must pay for. They are contrary to his teachings.

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;“ Colossians 2:13-14

I read this yesterday and thought it was interesting,
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.“
Romans 7:3

[Mamabear]

@Shawn Henry, you are a sick sick sick person and clearly must have severely dysfunctional familial relations if you really feel such things as you're saying there. I'm truly sorry for you and your family if you don't want to be so closely associated with your parents and family in the eternities to come. This really makes my heart hurt to hear that you have had such an experience to seemingly actually believe this - especially within the beautiful supernal context of eternity and fully understanding each others' minds.

I and our entire family - parents and children - want to live together and be closely associated forever. We believe in the family as it was practiced for millennia where families and extended families live together and/or in close proximity. We need to really fix families and end this current bastardized structure of children "going out" and making "their own families" as has been the luciferian practice over the past century or so.

So Shawn is a sick sick sick person because he might have a dysfunctional family who he doesn’t want to be with?
I’m sorry but 90% of the population probably would agree with him. Think of all the abuse and dysfunction that goes on in families all over the world! Even in the church with so called “priesthood holders.”
The ideal cookie cutter families that the church speaks of hardly exist.
Someone I know was abused by both of her parents and had issues with them her whole life. It’s understandable if some people don’t want to be together in eternity.

[cachemagic]

@Shawn Henry, you are a sick sick sick person and clearly must have severely dysfunctional familial relations if you really feel such things as you're saying there. I'm truly sorry for you and your family if you don't want to be so closely associated with your parents and family in the eternities to come. This really makes my heart hurt to hear that you have had such an experience to seemingly actually believe this - especially within the beautiful supernal context of eternity and fully understanding each others' minds.

I and our entire family - parents and children - want to live together and be closely associated forever. We believe in the family as it was practiced for millennia where families and extended families live together and/or in close proximity. We need to really fix families and end this current bastardized structure of children "going out" and making "their own families" as has been the luciferian practice over the past century or so.

So Shawn is a sick sick sick person because he might have a dysfunctional family who he doesn’t want to be with?
I’m sorry but 90% of the population probably would agree with him. Think of all the abuse and dysfunction that goes on in families all over the world! Even in the church with so called “priesthood holders.”
The ideal cookie cutter families that the church speaks of hardly exist.
Someone I know was abused by both of her parents and had issues with them her whole life. It’s understandable if some people don’t want to be together in eternity.

I think the OP asks a reasonable question. It becomes more obvious if you extend the question to additional generations. The only sealing that makes any sense is a husband and wife. It doesn't make any sense to have parents and children sealed together for eternity when that can also include grandchildren, greatgrandchildren etc. Yes, they can be associated and visit which is desirable, but what can it mean to be sealed together into a forever family? If they were not sealed together, does that mean that can't visit?

[Momma J]

The question is in the title.

I understand a how a marital union could develop into a binding dyadic complementarity of deific man and woman, however the idea of temporal family units (father and mother to temporal children) as temporary placements becoming eternal in the hereafter seems rather fuddled.
How do you and your father/mother become sempiternally linked in that exact relation?

If it’s a transmigrational reiteration in another temporal world in those same roles, what benefit is it for my father to remain my father? Can my father be birthed again and become my descendant at some future time down the familial line in another incarnation? Does “temple sealing” stop this from happening? Why does this even matter?



If it’s an eternal spiritual tethering, does my temporal father become my Heavenly Father? How do temporal children to a temporal father and mother move with their deified temporal father and mother (who are now generating, or rather organizing, new progeny from intelligence) into a new eternal round?

Is Jesus the son of God in that he was a temporal son of his temporal father, and his temporal father became God, thus he became the son of God? Or is his relationship with his father the same as we have when we are born again in Christ and become Jesus’ sons and daughters (as in his Father is his God or redeemer God)?

Where does the fact of regeneration play as you are birthed by Christ, you becoming his sons and daughters, in this view of “eternal families”?

If I’m not sealed to my father, was he never my temporal father to begin with? What is an “eternal family”? If my mom dies, and she wasn't sealed to me, and I go to heaven, will she not recognize me as her son?

Why do temporal families need to remain in the organization they were in telestiality? If my father becomes reborn in Christ, and I become reborn in Christ, doesn't this kind of nullify any "eternal" ties from "temple sealings"? We are both eternally sealed sons to Christ, as in Christ is our Father. If my mother is saved in Christ, and I'm saved in Christ, won't we be together forever in Christ? Why do I need a "temple sealing"?

AMEN

[Thinker]

…If my mom dies, and she wasn't sealed to me, and I go to heaven, will she not recognize me as her son?

…Why do I need a "temple sealing"?

Temples & family are the main baits for church leaders to bring in money & maintain control over people. Many families have been broken up by the temple - because leaders decided to change policy so only tithing/MONEY-payers & cult-worshipers could enter for weddings etc

I believe that just as a marriage certificate is like a blueprint of intent, not the actual relationship… if your mom did not treat you as her son in this life, then there will be no bond in the next.

[Thinker]

@Shawn Henry, you are a sick sick sick person and clearly must have severely dysfunctional familial relations if you really feel such things as you're saying there. I'm truly sorry for you and your family if you don't want to be so closely associated with your parents and family in the eternities to come. This really makes my heart hurt to hear that you have had such an experience to seemingly actually believe this - especially within the beautiful supernal context of eternity and fully understanding each others' minds.

I and our entire family - parents and children - want to live together and be closely associated forever. We believe in the family as it was practiced for millennia where families and extended families live together and/or in close proximity. We need to really fix families and end this current bastardized structure of children "going out" and making "their own families" as has been the luciferian practice over the past century or so.

How do you know so much to personally attack him?
Some people have had abusive parents. My mom would hit me for no reason. Once she beat me in the face with a pan. To this day, she is toxic & for the protection of myself & my family I maintain boundaries with her. Yet, she brags about how righteous she is - & shames anyone who doesn’t worship the lds church as she does.

Be careful who you call, “sick.”

[Artaxerxes]

Families are Forever is just a catchy sales pitch. The sales guy got his foot in the door and it was game over.

Living in the same mansion in heaven as your parents would be hell, not heaven. If you are not sealed to them, you can still visit them as often as you want, just like here on earth. No need for a sealing. Same thing for brother and sis, you'll only want to visit them as much as you do now, so why a sealing? Do sealings include relationship counselors that force you to visit more often?

Anyone who wants to be sealed to their parents is insane. I hope you get your wish and are trapped in the same mansion forever. We'll call it Hotel California.

Sealing was originally the carrot on the end of the polygamy stick, the reward for marrying a high-ranking leader. The sealing, as initially pitched, guaranteed that that righteous high leader would automatically pull you into the Celestial Kingdom. This incentive helped entice members into polygamy.

You should probably study what Joseph actually said, because it wasn't any of that.

"now comes the point, what is this office & work of Elijah, it is one of the greatest & most important subjects that God has revealed, He should send Elijah to seal the children to the fathers & fathers to the children...."
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... woodruff/4

"A measure of this sealing is to confirm upon their head in common with Elijah the doctrine of Election or the covenant with Abraham— which which when a Father & Mother of a family have entered into their children who have not transgressed are secured by the seal wherewith the Parents have been sealed— And this is the Oath of God unto our Father Abraham and this doctrine shall stand forever—"
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... on-coray/6

[Artaxerxes]

I think that it is almost entirely a marketing ploy. And in all practicality it is a huge distraction from the Gospel of Christ.

The Lord's stated purposes of the Temple are primarily for the living. Somehow they have been twisted (IMHO) into 99% of the time, works for the dead. Modern LDS temple work seems to me like a huge malinvestment of effort, time, money, etc. Imagine taking the man-hours of service, the money to build and run the ultra-fine sanctuaries and redirecting those things into the service of our living neighbors... The world would be a better place.

No. It was always understood to focus on the dead.

"God has revealed, He should send Elijah to seal the children to the fathers & fathers to the children, now was this merely confined to the living to settle difficulties with families on earth by no means, it was a far greater work Elijah what would you do if you was here would you confine <​refer​> <​confine​> your work to the living alone. No I would confine <​refer​> you to the scriptures whare the subject is manifest, ie without us they could not be made perfect nor we without them, the fathers without the children nor the children without the fathers. I wish you to understand this subject for it is important & if you will recieve it this is the spirit of Elijah that we redeem our dead & connect ourselves with our fathers which are in heaven & seal up our dead to come forth in the first resurrecti[o]n & here we want the power of Elijah to seal those who dwell on earth to those which dwell in heaven this is the power of Elijah & the keys."
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... woodruff/4

[Thinker]

I think that it is almost entirely a marketing ploy. And in all practicality it is a huge distraction from the Gospel of Christ.

The Lord's stated purposes of the Temple are primarily for the living. Somehow they have been twisted (IMHO) into 99% of the time, works for the dead. Modern LDS temple work seems to me like a huge malinvestment of effort, time, money, etc. Imagine taking the man-hours of service, the money to build and run the ultra-fine sanctuaries and redirecting those things into the service of our living neighbors... The world would be a better place.

So true!
Some invest more in & love the dead more than the living - probably because the dead can’t talk back. AND those who waste time on the dead get praises of men for it.

[Thinker]

Truthfully I don't get the purpose of sealing earthly bonds.
1) Things in mortality are just too chaotic
2) We are acting under a veil where our minds are literally darkened.
3) Therefore, often to me it equates to a practice that lacks informed consent
4) Mortality is just an insanely brief moment of existence/eternity. Too brief to base the rest of eternity on it.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense.

Maybe part of the reason for hoping in sealings etc, is clinging to this life. Death is scary, yet inevitable, so the only solution is to do some kind of mental gymnastics to wish away death and all that comes with it & cling to this temporary life, relationships etc.

A lot of Near-Death-Experiences describe spiritual family who are MUCH more deeply related to us than temporary biological family. This eternal family has been with us through many lifetimes.

Personally, I believe this life is what needs to be the focus, but it makes sense that there’s much more, especially if eternal progress & godhood are the goals.

[Momma J]

My parents divorced when I was about 6. My dad had custody of us, but my mom was very much in the picture. A couple years later my dad remarried, and we were all sealed as a family to our "new" mom.

After the fact, I sat down with my dad and asked what this meant. I was crushed to find out (according to my dad, that I was no longer sealed to my birth mother as I have a new mom). I found out later that my dad had my birth certificate changed and my birth mom is no longer listed as my mother.

Not sure why this is still unsettling to me. I honestly love both mothers dearly... Yet I feel that my dad tried to erase my birth mother from all records. Am I still sealed to both on church records?

In the long run, the sealings will not affect my love for my parents

[BigT]

We see the world through the lens of our personal experiences, which is something that must be unlearned. For instance, my wife’s 1st husband grew up in a family commonly called the “black sheep” of his LDS extended family. His dad drank, smoked, fooled around, etc., and hit on my wife several times. Yet, even with his upbringing, which would appall this man who had a sheltered upbringing, when my told him of the abuse she went through as a child, he didn’t believe her because he didn’t think anyone could be that cruel to one of their children. He looked at her experience through his lens and I looked at his through mine.

I would love to spend time with my parents in the hereafter, she would not (nor did she want to see her birth father when he got out of prison for killing her grandmother).

[Thinker]

My parents divorced when I was about 6. My dad had custody of us, but my mom was very much in the picture. A couple years later my dad remarried, and we were all sealed as a family to our "new" mom.

After the fact, I sat down with my dad and asked what this meant. I was crushed to find out (according to my dad, that I was no longer sealed to my birth mother as I have a new mom). I found out later that my dad had my birth certificate changed and my birth mom is no longer listed as my mother.

Not sure why this is still unsettling to me. I honestly love both mothers dearly... Yet I feel that my dad tried to erase my birth mother from all records. Am I still sealed to both on church records?

In the long run, the sealings will not affect my love for my parents

It’s understandable to be unsettling. Strange that your dad did that - maybe out of spite against your mom - but he hurt you in the process.

According to the board game rules…

“Children can be sealed to only two parents. So if you were born to your parents after they were sealed in the temple (born in the covenant) or were sealed to them in the temple yourself, you are still sealed to them—both of them—even after a divorce.”

…So when you pass go, you still get the $200.

But seriously, I think what matters most is the actual relat-ionships that are based on our ability to relate. “There are MANY mansions”/kingdoms/realms/states-of-being. Church lessons suggest only in the celestial kingdom can they visit all other kingdoms. Though I imagine qualifications are different than the board-game-rules, this makes sense. Kinda like a college PhD could mentally visit a kindergartener, but not vice versa. Except I imagine rather than academic education, the spiritual equivalent might be empathy and encouragement.

[nightlight]

Families are forever is a new testament doctrine.

LDS just put an LDS-polygamy spin on it to fit our practices and doctrine.

You become a Son or Daughter of Christ (BoFHG/endurance) in this life and then take part in the First Resurrection.
We started as part of the family of Adam and transcend through Christ to become apart of the family of Christ.

My wife and I are one flesh in this life.... we'll be resurrected as one flesh.

This is the goal of Adam and Eve......until all their children stand two by two in front of the Lord as they once did

Thinking you can seal your children to you and no matter what choices they make... they're going to be saved in the celestial Kingdom is a false LDS-polygamy doctrine that is clearly against the doctrine of Christ.

But parent has a lot of power over the outcome of their children if the have the Holy Ghost. Alma was a main catalyst in the redemption of his son.

I personally can't think of anything better than living without death among my God&family. It's pretty much the main point of all this. Me standing with my woman and my son and his woman etc

2 Nephi 31:17–18
Book of Mormon

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.


John 3:15-17
King James Version
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Chip]

@Shawn Henry, you are a sick sick sick person and clearly must have severely dysfunctional familial relations if you really feel such things as you're saying there. I'm truly sorry for you and your family if you don't want to be so closely associated with your parents and family in the eternities to come. This really makes my heart hurt to hear that you have had such an experience to seemingly actually believe this - especially within the beautiful supernal context of eternity and fully understanding each others' minds.

I and our entire family - parents and children - want to live together and be closely associated forever. We believe in the family as it was practiced for millennia where families and extended families live together and/or in close proximity. We need to really fix families and end this current bastardized structure of children "going out" and making "their own families" as has been the luciferian practice over the past century or so.

What Shawn Henry said about the origin of the sealing practice is true. How did it get from favors to lessers to 'eternal families'?

[Pazooka]

If Jesus becomes our Father, in the covenant, I’ve always thought it was possible that the unbroken chain of righteous parents to children that will be finalized at the end of this world would be this:

Through joint-heirship with Christ, the earth parents are empowered to act, in council, with their children in the establishment of the children’s own families. I think a world such as ours requires the involvement of the “elohim” and that we don’t currently grasp what that means. I think there’s a place, in the eternities, for the help our parents can give us - and if they are not worthy, the next in line will have that right.

At the same time, I think I recall Joseph Smith did not have his children sealed to him - which could mean nothing. But the questions are still there.

[Reluctant Watchman]

If I’m not mistaken, it was WW who modified the MO of the temple to include sealing families. This could purely be some rumor I read on the internet, but I’m pretty certain the intent of the temple has changed significantly, to where we have the clarion call of “stay on the covenant path” in our day. And if you get off that path, you have lost everything that has any meaning in the eternities.

In reality, God’s “family” will be eternal. But the decision for exaltation is a personal matter. Thinking that the simple act of a sealing has a binding effect that can even override the agency of the individual is flawed at best. From what I gather this belief was had among the LDS church for a time.