Questions for vegans

[Jashon]

Somewhat similar to a new vegan who begins to eat whole foods. At first there's improvement, a feeling of well-being, because processed food is eliminated. But after a few years the body starts to break down, wound healing is diminished, the brain doesn't work as well.

With apologies for the thread drift, you’re misinformed about veganism, lol! I’ve been vegan for 25 years and do not miss meat or milk at all. No health breakdowns, wounds still heal, no prescription or nonprescription drugs at all. Wearing glasses now, is that from veganism? Arteries clean as a whistle. No depression. Just feeling very grateful and happy. Oh the urban legends.

Taking this to a new thread, I have a few questions, to better understand veganism.

It's my understanding that a true vegan can't get DHA or B12, two very important aspects of non-vegan nutrition.

How do you get those?

[Jashon]

Another question is why is it acceptable for vegans to be extreme in their views of meat-eaters but not vice versa?

I'm thinking of this since an Oxford academic just said it would be ethical to let a meat-eater die.

A corollary is why is it acceptable for vegans to be misleading in their arguments about the ethical / environmental superiority of veganism? (The corollary actually leads to the vegan extremism, just exemplified in the remarks of this Oxford academic.)

[NowWhat]

We were vegan for five years. We actually gained weight, so we switched to keto.

[Allison]

Somewhat similar to a new vegan who begins to eat whole foods. At first there's improvement, a feeling of well-being, because processed food is eliminated. But after a few years the body starts to break down, wound healing is diminished, the brain doesn't work as well.

With apologies for the thread drift, you’re misinformed about veganism, lol! I’ve been vegan for 25 years and do not miss meat or milk at all. No health breakdowns, wounds still heal, no prescription or nonprescription drugs at all. Wearing glasses now, is that from veganism? Arteries clean as a whistle. No depression. Just feeling very grateful and happy. Oh the urban legends.

Taking this to a new thread, I have a few questions, to better understand veganism.

It's my understanding that a true vegan can't get DHA or B12, two very important aspects of non-vegan nutrition.

How do you get those?

I don’t know what DHA is, so maybe my body doesn’t realize it is missing it? Not sure about that.

The B-12 issue is interesting. I read that mushrooms contain B-12 and was so happy because I love mushrooms, so I just make mushroom stroganoff, and oh just lots of other good things. Don’t get me started on mushrooms, lol.

I read or heard elsewhere that the body manufactures B-12, I think it was, in the large intestine. That might help explain why (vegan) cows have B-12 in their tissues, even though it isn’t in their diet. I still eat lots of mushrooms anyway, because they are just yummy.

You may or may not have heard that we have to carefully combine our amino acids in order to make a meal that has a complete protein, but actually, the body stores amino acids for up to a week, so it’s just a matter of eating a natural variety of foods and the body builds the proteins.

Hope that helps.

[Allison]

Another question is why is it acceptable for vegans to be extreme in their views of meat-eaters but not vice versa?

I'm thinking of this since an Oxford academic just said it would be ethical to let a meat-eater die.

A corollary is why is it acceptable for vegans to be misleading in their arguments about the ethical / environmental superiority of veganism? (The corollary actually leads to the vegan extremism, just exemplified in the remarks of this Oxford academic.)

Whoa! An Oxford academic said that? He probably wants anti-vaxxers to die as well. Please don’t take him seriously.

I may be the only vegan pro-cattle industry person you know. It is alarming and disgusting that the Establishment is trying to shut down cattle ranching and even the poultry industry under the guise of climate change. Really, it’s famine that they want…imho. I want everyone to be free to eat whatever they choose, and to be left alone.

We vegans get our fair share of persecution, too. Ironically, the Great Reset push to get everybody eating bugs has evoked a lot of snarky comments about vegans, and I want to remind people that bugs are not a vegan food. None of this was our idea.

[Allison]

We were vegan for five years. We actually gained weight, so we switched to keto.

Oh believe me, vegans can get just as fat on non-dairy ice cream as any milk drinker! There are plenty of vegan forms of junk food!

I like the WFPB approach, aka Whole Food/Plant Based. That’s a fairly inclusive and wholesome approach, and is just better for everyone.

[Allison]

Lastly, if anyone is having some chronic disease issues, you might be interested in the work of Dr. John McDougall:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/

And you can take a look at some of their success stories. Scroll down to select a category:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/success-stories/

[Jashon]

Somewhat similar to a new vegan who begins to eat whole foods. At first there's improvement, a feeling of well-being, because processed food is eliminated. But after a few years the body starts to break down, wound healing is diminished, the brain doesn't work as well.

With apologies for the thread drift, you’re misinformed about veganism, lol! I’ve been vegan for 25 years and do not miss meat or milk at all. No health breakdowns, wounds still heal, no prescription or nonprescription drugs at all. Wearing glasses now, is that from veganism? Arteries clean as a whistle. No depression. Just feeling very grateful and happy. Oh the urban legends.

Taking this to a new thread, I have a few questions, to better understand veganism.

It's my understanding that a true vegan can't get DHA or B12, two very important aspects of non-vegan nutrition.

How do you get those?

I don’t know what DHA is, so maybe my body doesn’t realize it is missing it? Not sure about that.

The B-12 issue is interesting. I read that mushrooms contain B-12 and was so happy because I love mushrooms, so I just make mushroom stroganoff, and oh just lots of other good things. Don’t get me started on mushrooms, lol.

I read or heard elsewhere that the body manufactures B-12, I think it was, in the large intestine. That might help explain why (vegan) cows have B-12 in their tissues, even though it isn’t in their diet. I still eat lots of mushrooms anyway, because they are just yummy.

You may or may not have heard that we have to carefully combine our amino acids in order to make a meal that has a complete protein, but actually, the body stores amino acids for up to a week, so it’s just a matter of eating a natural variety of foods and the body builds the proteins.

Hope that helps.

Yet this plant-based website says that

humans produce B12 further down their digestive tract, which means we can't absorb our own. We excrete it instead, and must search for the vitamin from other sources.

Humans only need around 3 μg (micrograms) of vitamin B12 a day, but the consequences of B12 deficiency can be deadly, so it's important that you make sure you are getting as much as you need.

It is unlikely that a plant-based diet alone will supply you with an adequate amount of vitamin B12. You must make sure that you're eating and drinking products that have been fortified with the vitamin, or take special supplements to avoid deficiency.

This makes it sound like what you wrote isn't accurate.

[Jashon]

Lastly, if anyone is having some chronic disease issues, you might be interested in the work of Dr. John McDougall:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/

And you can take a look at some of their success stories. Scroll down to select a category:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/success-stories/

It is sad to see the clear, visible deterioration and fast aging over the last five years of dr mcdougall and his wife.

[BeNotDeceived]

Nannochloropsis was first discovered in the 1980s off the coast of Cádiz in Spain.

Has anyone tried eating this stuff?

[Niemand]

.

[Niemand]

I want to remind people that bugs are not a vegan food. None of this was our idea.

Vegans eat bugs all the time, just unknowingly.

Such as when they are sleeping with their mouth open.

[Allison]

Nannochloropsis was first discovered in the 1980s off the coast of Cádiz in Spain.

Has anyone tried eating this stuff?

No! What is it?

[Allison]

With apologies for the thread drift, you’re misinformed about veganism, lol! I’ve been vegan for 25 years and do not miss meat or milk at all. No health breakdowns, wounds still heal, no prescription or nonprescription drugs at all. Wearing glasses now, is that from veganism? Arteries clean as a whistle. No depression. Just feeling very grateful and happy. Oh the urban legends.

Taking this to a new thread, I have a few questions, to better understand veganism.

It's my understanding that a true vegan can't get DHA or B12, two very important aspects of non-vegan nutrition.

How do you get those?

I don’t know what DHA is, so maybe my body doesn’t realize it is missing it? Not sure about that.

The B-12 issue is interesting. I read that mushrooms contain B-12 and was so happy because I love mushrooms, so I just make mushroom stroganoff, and oh just lots of other good things. Don’t get me started on mushrooms, lol.

I read or heard elsewhere that the body manufactures B-12, I think it was, in the large intestine. That might help explain why (vegan) cows have B-12 in their tissues, even though it isn’t in their diet. I still eat lots of mushrooms anyway, because they are just yummy.

You may or may not have heard that we have to carefully combine our amino acids in order to make a meal that has a complete protein, but actually, the body stores amino acids for up to a week, so it’s just a matter of eating a natural variety of foods and the body builds the proteins.

Hope that helps.

Yet this plant-based website says that

humans produce B12 further down their digestive tract, which means we can't absorb our own. We excrete it instead, and must search for the vitamin from other sources.

Humans only need around 3 μg (micrograms) of vitamin B12 a day, but the consequences of B12 deficiency can be deadly, so it's important that you make sure you are getting as much as you need.

It is unlikely that a plant-based diet alone will supply you with an adequate amount of vitamin B12. You must make sure that you're eating and drinking products that have been fortified with the vitamin, or take special supplements to avoid deficiency.

This makes it sound like what you wrote isn't accurate.

Yeah, I don’t know if this or what I read about mushrooms, or about B-12 being manufactured in the gut is most accurate. But after 25 years of veganism, what is supposed to be happening to my health?

Also, how do cows get B-12 by eating only grass? Does grass contain B-12?

[Allison]

Lastly, if anyone is having some chronic disease issues, you might be interested in the work of Dr. John McDougall:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/

And you can take a look at some of their success stories. Scroll down to select a category:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/success-stories/

It is sad to see the clear, visible deterioration and fast aging over the last five years of dr mcdougall and his wife.

Ah really? Do they look older than their actual age? They’ve been vegan far longer than 5 years. It could be argued that slender people look older. But there is Dr. Lorraine Day in her 80’s who looks 20 years younger than she is, or more. She looks fabulous.

And have you seen what vegan critic Sally Fallon used to look like and what has happened to her appearance? I would rather age like all of the vegan doctors out there on the lecture circuit than the the big vegan critics.

But, is this an issue for you, if other people eat differently than you do? I’ve got no quarrel with animal consumers.

[logonbump]

Taking this to a new thread, I have a few questions, to better understand veganism.

It's my understanding that a true vegan can't get DHA or B12, two very important aspects of non-vegan nutrition.

How do you get those?

I don’t know what DHA is, so maybe my body doesn’t realize it is missing it? Not sure about that.

The B-12 issue is interesting. I read that mushrooms contain B-12 and was so happy because I love mushrooms, so I just make mushroom stroganoff, and oh just lots of other good things. Don’t get me started on mushrooms, lol.

I read or heard elsewhere that the body manufactures B-12, I think it was, in the large intestine. That might help explain why (vegan) cows have B-12 in their tissues, even though it isn’t in their diet. I still eat lots of mushrooms anyway, because they are just yummy.

You may or may not have heard that we have to carefully combine our amino acids in order to make a meal that has a complete protein, but actually, the body stores amino acids for up to a week, so it’s just a matter of eating a natural variety of foods and the body builds the proteins.

Hope that helps.

Yet this plant-based website says that

humans produce B12 further down their digestive tract, which means we can't absorb our own. We excrete it instead, and must search for the vitamin from other sources.

Humans only need around 3 μg (micrograms) of vitamin B12 a day, but the consequences of B12 deficiency can be deadly, so it's important that you make sure you are getting as much as you need.

It is unlikely that a plant-based diet alone will supply you with an adequate amount of vitamin B12. You must make sure that you're eating and drinking products that have been fortified with the vitamin, or take special supplements to avoid deficiency.

This makes it sound like what you wrote isn't accurate.

Yeah, I don’t know if this or what I read about mushrooms, or about B-12 being manufactured in the gut is most accurate. But after 25 years of veganism, what is supposed to be happening to my health?

Also, how do cows get B-12 by eating only grass? Does grass contain B-12?

A gut with a diverse biome can synthesize those vitamins internally.

[abijah]

There's definitely a distinct *spirit* that animates this principality of more-radical veganism, a certain spirit that finds it's embodiment in a broader superidentity (composed of the more froth-mouthed of vegans, i reckon) and my gut tells me it has its roots w/ Noah being told he could eat meat after the flood (except raw meat..)

whatever this spirit is that animates this veganic, vitriolic hatred of meat-eaters likely is the same spirit that hates how God told noah that he could eat animals at the covenant of the rainbow

i doubt this applies to the general populace of vegans, but for the more loony among them (as well as similar frenzies, like peta, climate change, extinction-rebellion, etc), the underlying spiritual roots behind this crackers behaviour likely have nephilim origins, methinks...

[Jashon]

I don’t know what DHA is, so maybe my body doesn’t realize it is missing it? Not sure about that.

The B-12 issue is interesting. I read that mushrooms contain B-12 and was so happy because I love mushrooms, so I just make mushroom stroganoff, and oh just lots of other good things. Don’t get me started on mushrooms, lol.

I read or heard elsewhere that the body manufactures B-12, I think it was, in the large intestine. That might help explain why (vegan) cows have B-12 in their tissues, even though it isn’t in their diet. I still eat lots of mushrooms anyway, because they are just yummy.

You may or may not have heard that we have to carefully combine our amino acids in order to make a meal that has a complete protein, but actually, the body stores amino acids for up to a week, so it’s just a matter of eating a natural variety of foods and the body builds the proteins.

Hope that helps.

Yet this plant-based website says that

humans produce B12 further down their digestive tract, which means we can't absorb our own. We excrete it instead, and must search for the vitamin from other sources.

Humans only need around 3 μg (micrograms) of vitamin B12 a day, but the consequences of B12 deficiency can be deadly, so it's important that you make sure you are getting as much as you need.

It is unlikely that a plant-based diet alone will supply you with an adequate amount of vitamin B12. You must make sure that you're eating and drinking products that have been fortified with the vitamin, or take special supplements to avoid deficiency.

This makes it sound like what you wrote isn't accurate.

Yeah, I don’t know if this or what I read about mushrooms, or about B-12 being manufactured in the gut is most accurate. But after 25 years of veganism, what is supposed to be happening to my health?

Also, how do cows get B-12 by eating only grass? Does grass contain B-12?

A gut with a diverse biome can synthesize those vitamins internally.

I would like to read more about this. Can you give me a source to go to for this?

[Jashon]

Lastly, if anyone is having some chronic disease issues, you might be interested in the work of Dr. John McDougall:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/

And you can take a look at some of their success stories. Scroll down to select a category:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/success-stories/

It is sad to see the clear, visible deterioration and fast aging over the last five years of dr mcdougall and his wife.

Ah really? Do they look older than their actual age? They’ve been vegan far longer than 5 years. It could be argued that slender people look older. But there is Dr. Lorraine Day in her 80’s who looks 20 years younger than she is, or more. She looks fabulous.

And have you seen what vegan critic Sally Fallon used to look like and what has happened to her appearance? I would rather age like all of the vegan doctors out there on the lecture circuit than the the big vegan critics.

But, is this an issue for you, if other people eat differently than you do? I’ve got no quarrel with animal consumers.

IIRC, the McDougalls follow a restrictive form of veganism. In any event, they don't look healthy anymore, beyond their years.

But OK, other older vegans look like their thriving. So the McDougalls are doing something different, which doesn't look healthy for them. Other vegans are doing something different, which is healthier for them.

[Jashon]

But, is this an issue for you, if other people eat differently than you do? I’ve got no quarrel with animal consumers.

I fully support your desire or any person's desire to eat like a vegan. I strongly disagree with all the vegan influencers and the powerful multinational food companies, which make unhealthy processed food, pushing anyone to give up omnivory on the basis that's it's better for the planet or for health. I fear that there will be large global partnerships to restrict food freedom in the future.

[Allison]

But, is this an issue for you, if other people eat differently than you do? I’ve got no quarrel with animal consumers.

I fully support your desire or any person's desire to eat like a vegan. I strongly disagree with all the vegan influencers and the powerful multinational food companies, which make unhealthy processed food, pushing anyone to give up omnivory on the basis that's it's better for the planet or for health. I fear that there will be large global partnerships to restrict food freedom in the future.

Agreed, I hate that too. But I have been on this path long before they turned it into a libtard name brand. Very aggravating and pernicious.

And it really doesn’t even work with the Gates/Schwab agenda to get bugs onto everybody’s dinner plate. They don’t care if it makes sense; the virtue signaling vegans are more than willing to stand by their slave owners and push whatever they are told will make them more cool.

[Allison]

Lastly, if anyone is having some chronic disease issues, you might be interested in the work of Dr. John McDougall:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/

And you can take a look at some of their success stories. Scroll down to select a category:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/success-stories/

It is sad to see the clear, visible deterioration and fast aging over the last five years of dr mcdougall and his wife.

Ah really? Do they look older than their actual age? They’ve been vegan far longer than 5 years. It could be argued that slender people look older. But there is Dr. Lorraine Day in her 80’s who looks 20 years younger than she is, or more. She looks fabulous.

And have you seen what vegan critic Sally Fallon used to look like and what has happened to her appearance? I would rather age like all of the vegan doctors out there on the lecture circuit than the the big vegan critics.

But, is this an issue for you, if other people eat differently than you do? I’ve got no quarrel with animal consumers.

IIRC, the McDougalls follow a restrictive form of veganism. In any event, they don't look healthy anymore, beyond their years.

But OK, other older vegans look like their thriving. So the McDougalls are doing something different, which doesn't look healthy for them. Other vegans are doing something different, which is healthier for them.

Did you notice how old they are? Sorry to be lazy; haven’t looked it up. But if they are looking beyond their chronological years, it might be because of their penchant for fat free eating. I am just about the opposite. I use lots of healthy fats and always have. Yet, my arteries are still clean. It’s possible they have misunderstood the need for fats in our diet. I would abstain from sugar before I would abstain from fats. That’s just a guess, though.

[Cruiserdude]

It is sad to see the clear, visible deterioration and fast aging over the last five years of dr mcdougall and his wife.

Ah really? Do they look older than their actual age? They’ve been vegan far longer than 5 years. It could be argued that slender people look older. But there is Dr. Lorraine Day in her 80’s who looks 20 years younger than she is, or more. She looks fabulous.

And have you seen what vegan critic Sally Fallon used to look like and what has happened to her appearance? I would rather age like all of the vegan doctors out there on the lecture circuit than the the big vegan critics.

But, is this an issue for you, if other people eat differently than you do? I’ve got no quarrel with animal consumers.

IIRC, the McDougalls follow a restrictive form of veganism. In any event, they don't look healthy anymore, beyond their years.

But OK, other older vegans look like their thriving. So the McDougalls are doing something different, which doesn't look healthy for them. Other vegans are doing something different, which is healthier for them.

Did you notice how old they are? Sorry to be lazy; haven’t looked it up. But if they are looking beyond their chronological years, it might be because of their penchant for fat free eating. I am just about the opposite. I use lots of healthy fats and always have. Yet, my arteries are still clean. It’s possible they have misunderstood the need for fats in our diet. I would abstain from sugar before I would abstain from fats. That’s just a guess, though.

Regardless of how one views diet, you nailed a very important part of diet with the healthy fats. Fats are an extremely important part of our diets. Our body and organs REQUIRE healthy fats for proper function, as you state

[Niyr]

Taking this to a new thread, I have a few questions, to better understand veganism.

It's my understanding that a true vegan can't get DHA or B12, two very important aspects of non-vegan nutrition.

How do you get those?

I don’t know what DHA is, so maybe my body doesn’t realize it is missing it? Not sure about that.

The B-12 issue is interesting. I read that mushrooms contain B-12 and was so happy because I love mushrooms, so I just make mushroom stroganoff, and oh just lots of other good things. Don’t get me started on mushrooms, lol.

I read or heard elsewhere that the body manufactures B-12, I think it was, in the large intestine. That might help explain why (vegan) cows have B-12 in their tissues, even though it isn’t in their diet. I still eat lots of mushrooms anyway, because they are just yummy.

You may or may not have heard that we have to carefully combine our amino acids in order to make a meal that has a complete protein, but actually, the body stores amino acids for up to a week, so it’s just a matter of eating a natural variety of foods and the body builds the proteins.

Hope that helps.

Yet this plant-based website says that

humans produce B12 further down their digestive tract, which means we can't absorb our own. We excrete it instead, and must search for the vitamin from other sources.

Humans only need around 3 μg (micrograms) of vitamin B12 a day, but the consequences of B12 deficiency can be deadly, so it's important that you make sure you are getting as much as you need.

It is unlikely that a plant-based diet alone will supply you with an adequate amount of vitamin B12. You must make sure that you're eating and drinking products that have been fortified with the vitamin, or take special supplements to avoid deficiency.

This makes it sound like what you wrote isn't accurate.

Yeah, I don’t know if this or what I read about mushrooms, or about B-12 being manufactured in the gut is most accurate. But after 25 years of veganism, what is supposed to be happening to my health?

Also, how do cows get B-12 by eating only grass? Does grass contain B-12?

Cattle have rumens, which contain the only things that can break down the cell walls of grass, microbes and bacteria, which are also found in soils (short grass, herbicides/pesticides greatly reduce soil microbes). That is how they get vitamin b12 from grass, through that symbiotic relationship.

[Allison]

I don’t know what DHA is, so maybe my body doesn’t realize it is missing it? Not sure about that.

The B-12 issue is interesting. I read that mushrooms contain B-12 and was so happy because I love mushrooms, so I just make mushroom stroganoff, and oh just lots of other good things. Don’t get me started on mushrooms, lol.

I read or heard elsewhere that the body manufactures B-12, I think it was, in the large intestine. That might help explain why (vegan) cows have B-12 in their tissues, even though it isn’t in their diet. I still eat lots of mushrooms anyway, because they are just yummy.

You may or may not have heard that we have to carefully combine our amino acids in order to make a meal that has a complete protein, but actually, the body stores amino acids for up to a week, so it’s just a matter of eating a natural variety of foods and the body builds the proteins.

Hope that helps.

Yet this plant-based website says that

humans produce B12 further down their digestive tract, which means we can't absorb our own. We excrete it instead, and must search for the vitamin from other sources.

Humans only need around 3 μg (micrograms) of vitamin B12 a day, but the consequences of B12 deficiency can be deadly, so it's important that you make sure you are getting as much as you need.

It is unlikely that a plant-based diet alone will supply you with an adequate amount of vitamin B12. You must make sure that you're eating and drinking products that have been fortified with the vitamin, or take special supplements to avoid deficiency.

This makes it sound like what you wrote isn't accurate.

Yeah, I don’t know if this or what I read about mushrooms, or about B-12 being manufactured in the gut is most accurate. But after 25 years of veganism, what is supposed to be happening to my health?

Also, how do cows get B-12 by eating only grass? Does grass contain B-12?

Cattle have rumens, which contain the only things that can break down the cell walls of grass, microbes and bacteria, which are also found in soils (short grass, herbicides/pesticides greatly reduce soil microbes). That is how they get vitamin b12 from grass, through that symbiotic relationship.

And my point is, if it works for them, can we really rule out that the human body can also do something similar with a non-animal diet.

Again, if my gut is not manufacturing it and if mushrooms are not providing it, what is supposed to be happening to my health if I haven’t had any B-12 for many years?