Democrats and the Church - question
- gkearney
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Democrats and the Church - question
From time to time on these forums we get hyperbolic statements that Democrats have no place in the church, should be denied entry to the temples or even excommunicated.
Fred is perhaps the most vocal of this group and he and others may well be speaking in hyperbole but this does raise an interesting question.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
Fred is perhaps the most vocal of this group and he and others may well be speaking in hyperbole but this does raise an interesting question.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
- The Red Pill
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
From what I understand, many of Q15 are progressive leftists. So...a purge is not going to happen.
My hope is that the Lord will deal with "the drunkards of Ephraim" and that the restoration that Jospeh Smith started will be finished and Zion established.
...and no, the doctrine of self reliance with 150 billion dollar slush funds and a $162k (each) paid ministry....is NOT what Zion looks like.
My hope is that the Lord will deal with "the drunkards of Ephraim" and that the restoration that Jospeh Smith started will be finished and Zion established.
...and no, the doctrine of self reliance with 150 billion dollar slush funds and a $162k (each) paid ministry....is NOT what Zion looks like.
- Fred
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
Well, like RedPill says, it is highly unlikely that the Q15 will ever attempt to purge evil.gkearney wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 10:03 am From time to time on these forums we get hyperbolic statements that Democrats have no place in the church, should be denied entry to the temples or even excommunicated.
Fred is perhaps the most vocal of this group and he and others may well be speaking in hyperbole but this does raise an interesting question.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
I must say in appreciation of your civility regarding the subject, that today's democrats are not the same as the JFK democrats. Not that they were ever benevolent, as they always leaned socialist, but they were not the blood thirsty, freedom killers of today.
Ezra Taft Benson, among others, described socialism as being of the devil. I believe you made a statement a while back about how roads were a benefit of socialism. Of course, everyone agrees that roads are a benefit to all that use them, which is pretty much everyone. But many of the socialist's collective do not use the proposed socialist construct. Like abortion, labor unions, welfare, etc.
One only need to look at the success of Tesla vs General Motors to see the effects of the satanic labor union. GM will go bankrupt again as they should for having unions, and let a freedom based company take their place. Bailing them out is pure evil.
As for the church, they joined satan quite some time ago. There are satanists on this forum that point out the large number of socialists around the world and claim that the church needs to accept them. This is a lie, of course. Just because many countries are socialists does not make it right. Getting baptized can place that all behind them as they follow Christ instead of satan.
But the leaders of the church are themselves disciples of satan. When Uchtdorf was baptized, he lied when he said he would follow Christ and leave socialism behind. He is still socialist and therefore still satanic. He should never be allowed into the temple. Should he choose to prefer freedom over slavery and change his mind and decide to follow Christ instead of satan, then he should be forgiven and allowed a recommend. But if he donates to a democrat party again, his recommend should be pulled.
One should be able to plainly see that the freedom allowed by Christ does allow a person to accept and believe the evil that Lucifer had the best plan. God is big on freedom. Just as satan is totally against it. Why anyone would willfully choose slavery over freedom is a mystery to me.
Let's make them wear seatbelts. It's for their own good. Except for the ones it kills by being strapped to the impact area. Pure evil. Choice is the correct answer. Let the consequences follow.
Obviously, the leaders of the church are evil. They lie, bribe, steal, and murder. This is why they are the Drunkards of Ephraim. Will they cleanse themselves? Will satan? Of course not.
When Jesus returns, freedom will be the word of the day. Satan will be chained. The very same word that describes the difference between Jesus and satan is the very same exact word that describes the difference between conservatives and democrats, socialists, Marxists, etc. The word is freedom. God calls it agency.
A question for temple attendance, assuming people tell the truth, is: Do you, or have you ever, supported the idea that people should be forced to comply?
Last edited by Fred on November 3rd, 2022, 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
A Temple recommend, patriarchal blessing or baptismal interview question. Or maybe during tithing declaration, you also have to declare your political party. If you give the 'wrong' answer, your membership records are tossed out. It wont happen.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
Democrats don’t support the Constitution. Ask people if they support the inspired Constitution.gkearney wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 10:03 am From time to time on these forums we get hyperbolic statements that Democrats have no place in the church, should be denied entry to the temples or even excommunicated.
Fred is perhaps the most vocal of this group and he and others may well be speaking in hyperbole but this does raise an interesting question.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
No purge because evil cannot purge evil.The Red Pill wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 10:47 am From what I understand, many of Q15 are progressive leftists. So...a purge is not going to happen.
My hope is that the Lord will deal with "the drunkards of Ephraim" and that the restoration that Jospeh Smith started will be finished and Zion established.
...and no, the doctrine of self reliance with 150 billion dollar slush funds and a $162k (each) paid ministry....is NOT what Zion looks like.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
I think if we are being honest, the question is already asked in temple recommend interviews. Do you sympathize with or subscribe to any group whose ideals are contrary to the gospel? I honestly don't think that a progressive/liberal democrat can answer that question as a NO. Abortion, big government, attacking our constitutional freedoms, the LGBTQ agenda, etc. All are very contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
By pushing the vaccine and waiting for the weaponization and activation of the 5G Tower kill shot.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
To be fair, the Republican party is just as guilty. But I doubt God will purge His church based on political parties. If you are a fruitless dead branch, you're getting purged. And being a dead branch has nothing to do with how you vote.
- Moroni104
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
I say this realizing how absurd the proposal is, but here I go:
Perhaps the Church would create wards for democrats.
They'd be so much happier all congregated together, and I would be so much happier not having to interact with them.
When my ward has many Democrats in it, I am not sure what I can and cannot say.
Perhaps there could also be a general conference for Democrats and then a regular general conference.
As it stands now, we have a divided church, and we all putsy foot around it, wondering which GAs espose which weird left-wing theories.
Instead of this, let the leftists declare their weird theories in a special general conference just for them. Let there be wards just for people like this. Perhaps these people can do some good, perhaps not. Who knows.
But, as it is, at the present, participating in Church is not pleasant because my core beliefs intertwine with the spiritual battle going on in my country (USA) whether our citizens will be allowed to have free enterprise and also be free from subjugation to woke values. These issues are core spiritual issues for me, and I am not comfortable talking about them at Church.
For example, perhaps the Church could make an "outreach" program for Democrats, and whenever someone exhibits Democratic beliefs, we can lovingly encourage them to participate in those outreach programs (and leave us the heck alone.)
This would be a much more transparent effort than what is currently happening, where nobody can really know what the Church's true beliefs are on any given RELEVANT, CURRENT social topic
.... I realize this idea is not workeable, but it was fun to type out.
Perhaps the Church would create wards for democrats.
They'd be so much happier all congregated together, and I would be so much happier not having to interact with them.
When my ward has many Democrats in it, I am not sure what I can and cannot say.
Perhaps there could also be a general conference for Democrats and then a regular general conference.
As it stands now, we have a divided church, and we all putsy foot around it, wondering which GAs espose which weird left-wing theories.
Instead of this, let the leftists declare their weird theories in a special general conference just for them. Let there be wards just for people like this. Perhaps these people can do some good, perhaps not. Who knows.
But, as it is, at the present, participating in Church is not pleasant because my core beliefs intertwine with the spiritual battle going on in my country (USA) whether our citizens will be allowed to have free enterprise and also be free from subjugation to woke values. These issues are core spiritual issues for me, and I am not comfortable talking about them at Church.
For example, perhaps the Church could make an "outreach" program for Democrats, and whenever someone exhibits Democratic beliefs, we can lovingly encourage them to participate in those outreach programs (and leave us the heck alone.)
This would be a much more transparent effort than what is currently happening, where nobody can really know what the Church's true beliefs are on any given RELEVANT, CURRENT social topic
.... I realize this idea is not workeable, but it was fun to type out.
Last edited by Moroni104 on November 4th, 2022, 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
There's more likely to be another conservative purge.gkearney wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 10:03 am From time to time on these forums we get hyperbolic statements that Democrats have no place in the church, should be denied entry to the temples or even excommunicated.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
Joseph Smith said: "I did not like [gkearney] being called up for erring in [his political philosophy]. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammeled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine." (DHC 5: 340.)
- harakim
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
Assuming they wanted to get rid of all the liberals, they would basically follow a 3-step plan:gkearney wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 10:03 am From time to time on these forums we get hyperbolic statements that Democrats have no place in the church, should be denied entry to the temples or even excommunicated.
Fred is perhaps the most vocal of this group and he and others may well be speaking in hyperbole but this does raise an interesting question.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
1. get them out of the habit of being an active member
2. make them choose to leave and feel like they're not accepted there
3. make it so they question if they go to church if they'll even be allowed in
1. They would start by making liberals uncomfortable with teachings. Then, hopefully, most of them would leave on their own.
2. Once that's over, they would just pick some topic like abortions or universal health care and say that their policy is clear and anyone who is for that disagrees with the brethren (which is a temple recommend question.)
3. At this point, they've gotten rid of most of the people who disagree, so most people would find demanding people to accept that point of view to be reasonable. So they can start requiring temple recommends or have some new inspired program that makes program/church attendance often or always, in an indirect way, dependent on agreeing with conservative topics. Maybe they would tie tithing to allowing people to go to church since people need to pay for it. I think the temple recommend has worked well for tithing, so they'd probably double down on that.
Historically, when organizations have a divide like this, the ones that have fewer adherents at the top of the pyramid go away and a new community starts. With the assets of the church being so much, many people will feel owed the money and won't want to leave. At that point, the church would probably say their opinion is contrary to what the brethren teach and kick them out.
EDIT: I changed what I was going to say but left their instead of changing to they're. It is now corrected.
Last edited by harakim on November 4th, 2022, 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
"Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" If people were honest in answering this question, Democrats, Socialist and Communists would self select out of the church.
- gkearney
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
Or simply not have temple recommends. If you’re not a “temple Mormon” for lack of a better word for it you will never get asked that question.etravis0219 wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 7:49 pm "Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" If people were honest in answering this question, Democrats, Socialist and Communists would self select out of the church.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
How to troll 101gkearney wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 10:03 am From time to time on these forums we get hyperbolic statements that Democrats have no place in the church, should be denied entry to the temples or even excommunicated.
Fred is perhaps the most vocal of this group and he and others may well be speaking in hyperbole but this does raise an interesting question.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
- creator
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
We've known gkearney on this forum for several years and I would say he's far from a troll; he seems to be quite a nice guy.
Personally I don't understand how any Church member would want to be a Republican or a Democrat, but association with a political party alone isn't enough for me to say someone has no place in the Church. I've met good and bad people who associate with both of those political parties.
- Lexew1899
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
I don’t think they would try to purge a political group from the church unless pressed to do so by a government agency under threat of losing funds or power.
With that being said, how did the church react under the Nazi regime in Germany? Didn’t they just go along to get along? It seems like that’s all they ever do.
But I’m sure all they would really do is ask people who hold to what they would probably label radical beliefs, (mega maga, antifa, commie, whatever) to self purge. If the government demanded more, they would probably do even more. I don’t see anything like they happening though unless ordered to so by government. Kind of like they bent over and followed every Covid order given by government.
With that being said, how did the church react under the Nazi regime in Germany? Didn’t they just go along to get along? It seems like that’s all they ever do.
But I’m sure all they would really do is ask people who hold to what they would probably label radical beliefs, (mega maga, antifa, commie, whatever) to self purge. If the government demanded more, they would probably do even more. I don’t see anything like they happening though unless ordered to so by government. Kind of like they bent over and followed every Covid order given by government.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
It was a yoke, that is why the emoji.creator wrote: ↑November 4th, 2022, 9:11 amWe've known gkearney on this forum for several years and I would say he's far from a troll; he seems to be quite a nice guy.
Personally I don't understand how any Church member would want to be a Republican or a Democrat, but association with a political party alone isn't enough for me to say someone has no place in the Church. I've met good and bad people who associate with both of those political parties.
As for the parties, I side with Fred. To witness blatant fraud in places like Michigan during the 2020 election, up until 3am 52% of the votes counted were for Trump, after 3am of the votes counted were for Biden. We live in a clown world and like Isaiah said: the whole head is sick and the heart is faint.
I will vote for the lesser of two evils and I will not throw away my vote on hopes and dreams of a person who has no chance. The lord taught us to make our surroundings better with what we can. He didn’t rebuild a proper temple, he cleaned the corrupt one. He didn’t resist the tax, he taught taxation is theft to Peter and then had him pay it. He taught that it’s a clown world and we have to live in it the best we can.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
The major parties are controlled by the conspiracy, and are promoting a lot of evil, but I don't think it's as easy to judge the average individual that associates with either party. I've met some people who for whatever reason are "democrats" but they completely disagree with the party leadership. I find it requires a discussion with the individual to really figure out their own heart and intentions.
- HereWeGo
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
Democrats are the left wing of the eagle, republicans are the right wing. The body of the eagle (the Gads) control what the wings do.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
At least the right wing gives a lip service and tries to minimize the gads damage.
That being said, I believe the trump movement will be instrumental in the next civil war. Will he be apart of it? Maybe
- HereWeGo
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
The right wing is just playing the part that the body gives it.
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
A lot of truth here, the silver standard in coinage was done away with by LBJ and a few years later the gold standard Nixon. Regan appointed a liberal and Jewish man Alan Greenspan be the head of the federal reserve. Both of them were part of the pagan worship of the owl in the Bohemian Grove.
We are the 2 horn beast, 2 horns = left and right political parties
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
To my understanding, Tesla was subsidized for its production of Electric Cars. GM, however, certainly appears pretty corrupt and internally compromised as a company at the same time.Fred wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 1:16 pmWell, like RedPill says, it is highly unlikely that the Q15 will ever attempt to purge evil.gkearney wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2022, 10:03 am From time to time on these forums we get hyperbolic statements that Democrats have no place in the church, should be denied entry to the temples or even excommunicated.
Fred is perhaps the most vocal of this group and he and others may well be speaking in hyperbole but this does raise an interesting question.
Just how would the church implement a program to purge Democrats or Socialist or even Communists from the church roles or from getting temple recommends? What would be the procedures for doing so?
I must say in appreciation of your civility regarding the subject, that today's democrats are not the same as the JFK democrats. Not that they were ever benevolent, as they always leaned socialist, but they were not the blood thirsty, freedom killers of today.
Ezra Taft Benson, among others, described socialism as being of the devil. I believe you made a statement a while back about how roads were a benefit of socialism. Of course, everyone agrees that roads are a benefit to all that use them, which is pretty much everyone. But many of the socialist's collective do not use the proposed socialist construct. Like abortion, labor unions, welfare, etc.
One only need to look at the success of Tesla vs General Motors to see the effects of the satanic labor union. GM will go bankrupt again as they should for having unions, and let a freedom based company take their place. Bailing them out is pure evil.
As for the church, they joined satan quite some time ago. There are satanists on this forum that point out the large number of socialists around the world and claim that the church needs to accept them. This is a lie, of course. Just because many countries are socialists does not make it right. Getting baptized can place that all behind them as they follow Christ instead of satan.
But the leaders of the church are themselves disciples of satan. When Uchtdorf was baptized, he lied when he said he would follow Christ and leave socialism behind. He is still socialist and therefore still satanic. He should never be allowed into the temple. Should he choose to prefer freedom over slavery and change his mind and decide to follow Christ instead of satan, then he should be forgiven and allowed a recommend. But if he donates to a democrat party again, his recommend should be pulled.
One should be able to plainly see that the freedom allowed by Christ does allow a person to accept and believe the evil that Lucifer had the best plan. God is big on freedom. Just as satan is totally against it. Why anyone would willfully choose slavery over freedom is a mystery to me.
Let's make them wear seatbelts. It's for their own good. Except for the ones it kills by being strapped to the impact area. Pure evil. Choice is the correct answer. Let the consequences follow.
Obviously, the leaders of the church are evil. They lie, bribe, steal, and murder. This is why they are the Drunkards of Ephraim. Will they cleanse themselves? Will satan? Of course not.
When Jesus returns, freedom will be the word of the day. Satan will be chained. The very same word that describes the difference between Jesus and satan is the very same exact word that describes the difference between conservatives and democrats, socialists, Marxists, etc. The word is freedom. God calls it agency.
A question for temple attendance, assuming people tell the truth, is: Do you, or have you ever, supported the idea that people should be forced to comply?
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Re: Democrats and the Church - question
If there is a purge, the stated reason for removing the members won’t be explicitly for political party affiliation but rather for doctrinal reasons.Lexew1899 wrote: ↑November 4th, 2022, 10:45 am I don’t think they would try to purge a political group from the church unless pressed to do so by a government agency under threat of losing funds or power.
With that being said, how did the church react under the Nazi regime in Germany? Didn’t they just go along to get along? It seems like that’s all they ever do.
But I’m sure all they would really do is ask people who hold to what they would probably label radical beliefs, (mega maga, antifa, commie, whatever) to self purge. If the government demanded more, they would probably do even more. I don’t see anything like they happening though unless ordered to so by government. Kind of like they bent over and followed every Covid order given by government.