I'm confused;

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Nevervaxxed
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I'm confused;

Post by Nevervaxxed »

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

Lizzy60
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Lizzy60 »

Many of us here have little or no activity in the LDS Church any longer, but we still keep up with what is going on because we have families and friends who are not yet awakened to our awful situation. Most of us still have a belief in the Book of Mormon, as well as the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Many of us have found our faith and belief in Christ is stronger than when it was encompassed by the church culture. Some of us tithe by giving directly to poor people who the Lord has placed in our paths, or other ways that we feel are inspired.

Sometimes it may seem that we keep bringing up the same things over and over, but that’s because of people like you who may have just dropped in recently. We write to encourage each other, but also to reach out to the lurkers, who are always welcome here.

There are also a few posters who regularly step in to defend whatever church leaders may be doing, and they serve to remind us that not long ago we were in their shoes.

Welcome! You are among friends!

Artaxerxes
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Artaxerxes »

Nevervaxxed wrote: October 27th, 2022, 4:39 pm I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.
It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:10 pm It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.
I honestly don't think you read a thing he wrote.

Artaxerxes
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Artaxerxes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:13 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:10 pm It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.
I honestly don't think you read a thing he wrote.
Which part do you think I missed?

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Great8
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Great8 »

Welcome to the club!!!
I learned a new acronym this week : PIMO (Physically In - Mentally Out)

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Luke
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Luke »

Great8 wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:17 pm Welcome to the club!!!
I learned a new acronym this week : PIMO (Physically In - Mentally Out)
Perfectly describes many here, but it's a shame that it's an ex-Mormon phrase.

Nevervaxxed
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Nevervaxxed »

I think you missed everything I wrote. The fact is President Bensen as well as most of our former prophets would roll over in their Graves seeing the direction the church leadership is taking us in today. I feel exactly the opposite of what you wrote; the church left Christ's true ways and therefore parted from me

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:15 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:13 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:10 pm It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.
I honestly don't think you read a thing he wrote.
Which part do you think I missed?
The church, as instituted by Joseph, has changed, drastically in fact. Most members have no idea what Joseph actually taught about a variety of topics. Also, almost all of the things he listed were things the church has done, and none of them had to do with changes he had made. So to make the claim that he changed is very much incorrect.

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Luke
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Luke »

Maybe these quotations will give you some clarity:

“You will live to see men arise in power in the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of their poverty.” (Joseph Smith, Mosiah Lyman Hancock Autobiography, typescript, HBLL)

“Brethren, this Church will be led onto the very brink of hell by the leaders of this people.” (Brigham Young, 24 August 1867, The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young 4:2478)

“President Taylor said that the time would come when many of the Saints would apostatize because of this principle [Plural Marriage]. He said ‘one half of this people would apostatize over the principle for which we are now in hiding, yea, and possibly one half of the other half’ (rising off the floor while making the statement). He also said the day will come when a document similar to that (Manifesto) then under consideration would be adopted by the Church, following which ‘apostasy and whoredom would be rampant in the Church.’” (Lorin C. Woolley, 22 September 1929, as quoted in Supplement to the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage, pg. 60-61)

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Great8 wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:17 pm Welcome to the club!!!
I learned a new acronym this week : PIMO (Physically In - Mentally Out)
Basically we’re back to only Aaronic and Patriarch Priesthood, but with mostly legit scriptures and the Davidic Servant posts here from time to time.

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Fred
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Fred »

Well, Nevervaxxed. Congratulations on remaining clean. I was never in the Bishopric, but I was in the clerks office. I felt like you for a long time and would have defended the church as much as the trolls on this forum. I had a few instances that led me to follow Christ as opposed to the Brethren. Even after it first appeared to me that the Q15 were following satan, I made excuses in my mind about them having to keep the church together in spite of evil.

But sooner or later, one has to call evil out for what it is. One does not excuse a child rapist for mitigating circumstances. Neither should one forgive a serial murderer. When God told Nephi to chop off Laban's head, He did not say and go kill at random a few extra ten thousand for good measure.

If it was only one thing, then we might be mistaken for not knowing the complete circumstances. But it is thousands of things. Joining the UN after ETB clearly labeled it a purely satanic organization is one thing. Following the WEF to create a situation where there is one world leader named satan that sits on the throne is another. Then there are the millions in donations to the totally satanic violent group called Black Lives Matter. Then NAACP. Then refusing to do Trump's genealogy. Then telling people to vote for the Mutt Romney. Then praising Biden. Then closing the temples. Then requiring a satanic emblem be worn on the face to attend church. Then requiring stricter restrictions than the government during covid. Then urging members to get jabbed. Then after science proved the shot was dangerous, they doubled down. Not necessarily in the right order, but there are many, many, more. What would Jesus do? NONE of the above!

Artaxerxes
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Artaxerxes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:22 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:15 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:13 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:10 pm It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.
I honestly don't think you read a thing he wrote.
Which part do you think I missed?
The church, as instituted by Joseph, has changed, drastically in fact. Most members have no idea what Joseph actually taught about a variety of topics. Also, almost all of the things he listed were things the church has done, and none of them had to do with changes he had made. So to make the claim that he changed is very much incorrect.
You misunderstand my post.

I don't think OP is claiming that he held church callings and didn't doubt during the 1830s. I think he's saying that just a few years ago he didn't have problems, but now he does. He listed things like Masonry, CIA conspiracy theories, and the like. Those aren't new. If the church was true 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns. The church certainly hasn't become MORE masonic since then. OP was fairly open about things "never bothered me before" suddenly becoming an issue. That is a clear indication that he has changed, not the church.

Nevervaxxed
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Nevervaxxed »

That's exactly how I feel; the savior would NEVER "go along to get along" with the powers that be. That's exactly why the jews killed him. Whatever happened to "do what is right, let the consequence follow"?? Today's church is doing everything necessary to avoid worldly consequences.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:30 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:22 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:15 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:13 pm
I honestly don't think you read a thing he wrote.
Which part do you think I missed?
The church, as instituted by Joseph, has changed, drastically in fact. Most members have no idea what Joseph actually taught about a variety of topics. Also, almost all of the things he listed were things the church has done, and none of them had to do with changes he had made. So to make the claim that he changed is very much incorrect.
You misunderstand my post.

I don't think OP is claiming that he held church callings and didn't doubt during the 1830s. I think he's saying that just a few years ago he didn't have problems, but now he does. He listed things like Masonry, CIA conspiracy theories, and the like. Those aren't new. If the church was true 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns. The church certainly hasn't become MORE masonic since then. OP was fairly open about things "never bothered me before" suddenly becoming an issue. That is a clear indication that he has changed, not the church.
The gospel of Christ is true. It is those things he was hanging on to. It's when you begin to peel back the layers that you discover what you thought was the lord's church is just a facade. A bunch of charlatans. And sure, maybe a few of them truly are doing their best given where they are, but that doesn't change the fact that much has been distorted and even completely contradicts what Christ taught in the scriptures. Sure, the BoM is truly another witness of the Lord, but that doesn't mean that the lord will always sustain this organization. In fact, he prophesied to the contrary.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Maybe these dreams that Joseph had right before he was murdered will give you some insight as to when the wheels were going to fall off: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

Artaxerxes
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Artaxerxes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:35 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:30 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:22 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:15 pm

Which part do you think I missed?
The church, as instituted by Joseph, has changed, drastically in fact. Most members have no idea what Joseph actually taught about a variety of topics. Also, almost all of the things he listed were things the church has done, and none of them had to do with changes he had made. So to make the claim that he changed is very much incorrect.
You misunderstand my post.

I don't think OP is claiming that he held church callings and didn't doubt during the 1830s. I think he's saying that just a few years ago he didn't have problems, but now he does. He listed things like Masonry, CIA conspiracy theories, and the like. Those aren't new. If the church was true 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns. The church certainly hasn't become MORE masonic since then. OP was fairly open about things "never bothered me before" suddenly becoming an issue. That is a clear indication that he has changed, not the church.
The gospel of Christ is true. It is those things he was hanging on to. It's when you begin to peel back the layers that you discover what you thought was the lord's church is just a facade. A bunch of charlatans. And sure, maybe a few of them truly are doing their best given where they are, but that doesn't change the fact that much has been distorted and even completely contradicts what Christ taught in the scriptures. Sure, the BoM is truly another witness of the Lord, but that doesn't mean that the lord will always sustain this organization. In fact, he prophesied to the contrary.
You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.

Lizzy60
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Lizzy60 »

Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:39 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:35 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:30 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:22 pm
The church, as instituted by Joseph, has changed, drastically in fact. Most members have no idea what Joseph actually taught about a variety of topics. Also, almost all of the things he listed were things the church has done, and none of them had to do with changes he had made. So to make the claim that he changed is very much incorrect.
You misunderstand my post.

I don't think OP is claiming that he held church callings and didn't doubt during the 1830s. I think he's saying that just a few years ago he didn't have problems, but now he does. He listed things like Masonry, CIA conspiracy theories, and the like. Those aren't new. If the church was true 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns. The church certainly hasn't become MORE masonic since then. OP was fairly open about things "never bothered me before" suddenly becoming an issue. That is a clear indication that he has changed, not the church.
The gospel of Christ is true. It is those things he was hanging on to. It's when you begin to peel back the layers that you discover what you thought was the lord's church is just a facade. A bunch of charlatans. And sure, maybe a few of them truly are doing their best given where they are, but that doesn't change the fact that much has been distorted and even completely contradicts what Christ taught in the scriptures. Sure, the BoM is truly another witness of the Lord, but that doesn't mean that the lord will always sustain this organization. In fact, he prophesied to the contrary.
You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.
It can still be what you call “His church” and polluted at the same time. Mormon 8. Why have you polluted the Holy Church of God?

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Nevervaxxed wrote: October 27th, 2022, 4:39 pm While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago?
To address this question specifically. I think we need to go back and dive into church history. Some questions to ask:

1. What led to the murder of Joseph and his brother? https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/joseph-smith-murder
2. Was it really the mob who killed him?
3. Why don't Willard Richards and John Taylor's eyewitness accounts align with each other?
4. Why did John Taylor lie about being hit with a bullet in his pocket watch? Even modern historians of the church agree that this never happened.
5. Was Joseph really a polygamist? https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/polygamy-adultery
6. Why did we change the original doctrine of the tithe after Joseph was murdered? https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/tithe-the-poor
7. Why has the church added language such as "we cannot lead you astray" after Joseph was murdered? Joseph never taught this precept https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... f-prophets
8. Why did Brigham reverse what Joseph eventually taught about Black and the priesthood?
9. Why did Brigham dissolve the Council of 50?
10. Did the transfiguration event of Brigham really happen the way it is told by the church?
11. What happened to the original temple endowment? We have no actual record of what Joseph taught.
12. Why does revelation for church leaders often coincide with government pressure?
13. Why are we capitulating to world governments today?
14. In fact, we are not only capitulating but downright supporting and promoting NWO agendas.
15. There is enough evidence to suggest that something related to SRA is occurring. The how and by whom is the tough part to answer.
16. Why has the church actively suppressed child sexual abuse?
17. Why does the doctrine contained in the Book of Mormon not align with a lot of false beliefs and traditions in the church? https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church

I think we could play this game for much, much longer.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:39 pm
You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.
Read the OP again, he never said "the church" was true 10 years ago. He said he believed the gospel of Christ to be true. The church doesn't always follow the doctrine of Christ.

Artaxerxes
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Artaxerxes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:53 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:39 pm
You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.
Read the OP again, he never said "the church" was true 10 years ago. He said he believed the gospel of Christ to be true. The church doesn't always follow the doctrine of Christ.
Read my response again. " If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:10 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:53 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:39 pm
You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.
Read the OP again, he never said "the church" was true 10 years ago. He said he believed the gospel of Christ to be true. The church doesn't always follow the doctrine of Christ.
Read my response again. " If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."
He never said the “church” was true.

Artaxerxes
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Artaxerxes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:10 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:53 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:39 pm
You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.
Read the OP again, he never said "the church" was true 10 years ago. He said he believed the gospel of Christ to be true. The church doesn't always follow the doctrine of Christ.
Read my response again. " If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."
He never said the “church” was true.
Man, I really should have said something about what to do "if He hasn't" told him yet. That's a real oversight....

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:37 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:10 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 5:53 pm
Read the OP again, he never said "the church" was true 10 years ago. He said he believed the gospel of Christ to be true. The church doesn't always follow the doctrine of Christ.
Read my response again. " If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."
He never said the “church” was true.
Man, I really should have said something about what to do "if He hasn't" told him yet. That's a real oversight....
Regardless of what you want to say, the LDS church has whitewashed doctrine and history. Good luck with that.

Artaxerxes
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Posts: 2298

Re: I'm confused;

Post by Artaxerxes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:43 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:37 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: October 27th, 2022, 6:10 pm

Read my response again. " If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."
He never said the “church” was true.
Man, I really should have said something about what to do "if He hasn't" told him yet. That's a real oversight....
Regardless of what you want to say, the LDS church has whitewashed doctrine and history. Good luck with that.
Yeah, can you believe I'm telling people to pray about it? I can understand why you're objecting so strongly.

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