Book of Mormon questions

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LDS Watchman
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by LDS Watchman »

Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 7:57 am I think it’s possible he authored it.
He was much smarter than the church gives him credit for.
When I saw Russell Nelson put his face in the hat to demonstrate how Joseph translated I realized I had been lied to and I asked why? Why has the church lied about the history and the origins of translation processes? What else are they covering up?At that point I had already read verses in the BOM that I had questions about and now I have more.
So what are you going to do Mamabear? Are you doing to throw out the Book of Mormon and the restoration and become and Evangelical Christian?

Mamabear
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Mamabear »

nightlight wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:17 am My family calls me by my nickname....all my friends and old acquaintances call me by my middle name because that's what I went by in school. And in my adult work life, everybody calls me by my first name because it's what's on my ID. My wife calls me all 3 of my names. And my son calls me dad

So....

Getting caught up in names, "it says Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon" is an unintelligent argument.

For the world today, his name is Jesus Christ. It was always known this is what we would call him. You can call him Joshua and pretend it makes him and you more true....but you'd just be whiffing at the plate
I was just saying that I thought it would follow the pattern of Jehovah or Lord being used in the OT.
Also, baptisms in the Book of Mormon seem anachronistic because it was a long time before Jesus.

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nightlight
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by nightlight »

And the question of the Holy Ghost and it's prevalence before Christ came.

How did men and women repent of their sins before Jesus came in the flesh?

The coming of Christ is not just a linear thing

The Holy Ghost and it's manifold mission is not just a linear thing as well

Yes there is a timeline. But there's exceptions to all the rules. Men and women took upon them the name of Christ before Christ came, they were washed clean through the blood of Christ before Christ actually bled

Before Christ came... people took upon themselves Christ and the Holy Ghost.
With faith and understanding, nothing can stop anybody from doing anything that involves righteousness

God doesn't see us as linear because He is not linear

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nightlight
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by nightlight »

Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:46 am
nightlight wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:17 am My family calls me by my nickname....all my friends and old acquaintances call me by my middle name because that's what I went by in school. And in my adult work life, everybody calls me by my first name because it's what's on my ID. My wife calls me all 3 of my names. And my son calls me dad

So....

Getting caught up in names, "it says Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon" is an unintelligent argument.

For the world today, his name is Jesus Christ. It was always known this is what we would call him. You can call him Joshua and pretend it makes him and you more true....but you'd just be whiffing at the plate
I was just saying that I thought it would follow the pattern of Jehovah or Lord being used in the OT.
Also, baptisms in the Book of Mormon seem anachronistic because it was a long time before Jesus.
And the question of the Holy Ghost and it's prevalence before Christ came.

How did men and women repent of their sins before Jesus came in the flesh?

The coming of Christ is not just a linear thing

The Holy Ghost and it's manifold mission is not just a linear thing as well

Yes there is a timeline. But there's exceptions to all the rules. Men and women took upon them the name of Christ before Christ came, they were washed clean through the blood of Christ before Christ actually bled

Before Christ came... people took upon themselves Christ and the Holy Ghost.
With faith and understanding, nothing can stop anybody from doing anything that involves righteousness

God doesn't see us as linear because He is not linear

Mamabear
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Mamabear »

nightlight wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:24 am
Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 7:57 am I think it’s possible he authored it.
He was much smarter than the church gives him credit for.
When I saw Russell Nelson put his face in the hat to demonstrate how Joseph translated I realized I had been lied to and I asked why? Why has the church lied about the history and the origins of translation processes? What else are they covering up?At that point I had already read verses in the BOM that I had questions about and now I have more.
The church lied cuz it looks more ridiculous to the world with a stone in hat.
This seems more ridiculous to the world because the world is led by emotion and not logic.

Logic says that supernatural stuff, or the means by achieving the supernatural is a no limit game

Lol
What's more crazy, a pair of glasses that some immortal being gave to a kid.... Or a kid looking in a hat?

Logic says they are both equally ridiculous...

One guy hums until he can see a vision, one guy sits in silence and meditates till he can see a vision.....

The supernatural is ridiculous to natural.

Like you literally believe some angels going to blow his trumpet and you're going to be raised from your grave.....
LOL YET SOMEONE STARING IN A HAT AT A ROCK AND SEEING WORDS, THAT is SOMEHOW STUPID???
That’s the problem, the church should not lie yet they constantly do. They think they are lying for the Lord, when that is not how He operates.

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nightlight
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by nightlight »

Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:58 am
nightlight wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:24 am
Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 7:57 am I think it’s possible he authored it.
He was much smarter than the church gives him credit for.
When I saw Russell Nelson put his face in the hat to demonstrate how Joseph translated I realized I had been lied to and I asked why? Why has the church lied about the history and the origins of translation processes? What else are they covering up?At that point I had already read verses in the BOM that I had questions about and now I have more.
The church lied cuz it looks more ridiculous to the world with a stone in hat.
This seems more ridiculous to the world because the world is led by emotion and not logic.

Logic says that supernatural stuff, or the means by achieving the supernatural is a no limit game

Lol
What's more crazy, a pair of glasses that some immortal being gave to a kid.... Or a kid looking in a hat?

Logic says they are both equally ridiculous...

One guy hums until he can see a vision, one guy sits in silence and meditates till he can see a vision.....

The supernatural is ridiculous to natural.

Like you literally believe some angels going to blow his trumpet and you're going to be raised from your grave.....
LOL YET SOMEONE STARING IN A HAT AT A ROCK AND SEEING WORDS, THAT is SOMEHOW STUPID???
That’s the problem, the church should not lie yet they constantly do. They think they are lying for the Lord, when that is not how He operates.
The church lies because it's made up of men....and men have a tendency to lie.

Things of God should seem grand. Glasses in a breastplate given by an angelic being is grand, bro staring into a hat at a rock...seems simple and stupid to us emotional beings.

This is why they lied (or at least omitted)

But this lie doesn't change reality

The Book of Mormon is a true record.
I was taken at the same mountain Nephi went to in wide awake vision. The first time I read the book of Mormon I got to the part of nephi asking to see what his father saw. I got down on my knees and asked to see what he saw and then was immediately taken to that Mountain where a vision opened up in the sky. It changed me.


Joseph Smith didn't author of The Book of Mormon.

Chris
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Chris »

Jashon wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 8:47 am Yes, I remember learning about the stone in the hat in 1998, and wondering the same thing. Why weren't we told about that? It made me wonder. It was the same old mistake church leaders have made, not telling the unvarnished truth, because they think members can't handle it.
Its not the churchs job to point out every faith promoting, or thing that may be looked at that can question faith.

I have known about that ever since i was a deacon. I dont think it should hurt anyones faith, same as multiple first vision accounts. I think it should increase faith.

Joseph learned revelation and how to get it, started off hard. At end he didnt need any help from anything.


First vision same thing, anyone who has had visions know when you share, you only share parts and you adapt what you share based on what spirit says is allowable for that person and what you should share, example sharing with a child versus adult or religion newbe versus scholar etc.....

Church should not coddle anyone. They have not lied to anyone, you guys are trying to get to heaven by cutting off your feet and your hands and then your heads, thinking just by clinging to bom it can get you there. thinking you can descecrate the church the prophet and the only organization under heaven that can get you to heaven and that has the authority to do so. I dont get it. The church isnt the bad guy even if it is made up of inperfect mortals who make mistakes. At least they are trying......

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nightlight
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by nightlight »

Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:29 am
Jashon wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 8:47 am Yes, I remember learning about the stone in the hat in 1998, and wondering the same thing. Why weren't we told about that? It made me wonder. It was the same old mistake church leaders have made, not telling the unvarnished truth, because they think members can't handle it.
. thinking you can descecrate the church the prophet and the only organization under heaven that can get you to heaven and that has the authority to do so.
Bro this isn't Sunday School. Your little LDS mantras you use as a bludgeon are shrugged off by people who actually feast on the words of Christ... Might as well look in the mirror and quote yourself


O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.

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TheDuke
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by TheDuke »

I don't have issue with the name "Jesus Christ" in the ancient texts. My point is that it must have been from literary license, not actual words to Bro of J, for example. It communicates the "principle" to us but could not be accurate word-for-word. But we often get hung up on the exact words.

A few years ago in SS we were discussing Genesis and something Adam said in the garden. We were dissecting a word Adam used (don't recall the word). My friend asked about who wrote it down? There was only Adam, Eve and the Serpent there? Same issue, correct principles not exact words.

Chris
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Chris »

nightlight wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:51 am
Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:29 am
Jashon wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 8:47 am Yes, I remember learning about the stone in the hat in 1998, and wondering the same thing. Why weren't we told about that? It made me wonder. It was the same old mistake church leaders have made, not telling the unvarnished truth, because they think members can't handle it.
. thinking you can descecrate the church the prophet and the only organization under heaven that can get you to heaven and that has the authority to do so.
Bro this isn't Sunday School. Your little LDS mantras you use as a bludgeon are shrugged off by people who actually feast on the words of Christ... Might as well look in the mirror and quote yourself


O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
It isnt Sunday School, and yet it is still true. When you read that scripture you quoted below it actually implies that you do what he says. The path is very narrow and it is only as outlined by him. You cant disregard everything he says and think by some miracale you will still make it. He will just simply say "Ye know me not". That strait course starts with Jacobs ladder ( Temple ), then Baptism by fire, 2nd anoiting and then Exaltation. You just cant skip any steps along the way.

You cant say ah yea Lord you just arent right, I really dont like that prophet you called i think he is stupid and wrong and oh by the way Lord i dont think he has ever been inspired or performed a miracle, and about that church, you know the saints you have suck, oh and i dont like how they spend tithing money too, yes i know this probably makes me sound a little like Judas because i know he used to complain how the church spent its money, but it is okay that i complain about it because Judas was just you know, well Judas. I am so much batter than he. and yea i just think going to church being surronded by all those horrible people who call themselves saints is not for me. The temple oh my gosh the temple just sucks too.... I mean comeon, you know there are a couple scriptures in the bible and i think i got it all figured out. I think the church sucks, the prophets sucks according to some scriptures i think i know everything about it and all i need to do is nothing. I can claim to give all my money to those in need even though i dont and Lord i am just going to sit by and speak ill of everyone and everything and especially about this crappy prophet and crappy church. Oh but dont worry i know you will save me, because i am just cutting out all the crap and coming strait to you. I dont need to do as the scriptures say, ill just come to you and all by the way i expect you to come visit me and tell me i am so holy that i am to be exalted. By the way Lord i am stillwating for my Rameumptom Lord please send it soon so i can feel better about myself.

Jashon
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Jashon »

The church still persists in getting the artwork wrong on Joseph Smith receiving the Book of Mormon text with his seer stone in a hat. It's so frequent that it's deliberate.

We should have SS lessons on this, it's so important. But we don't.

Mamabear
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Mamabear »

Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 12:30 pm
nightlight wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:51 am
Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:29 am
Jashon wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 8:47 am Yes, I remember learning about the stone in the hat in 1998, and wondering the same thing. Why weren't we told about that? It made me wonder. It was the same old mistake church leaders have made, not telling the unvarnished truth, because they think members can't handle it.
. thinking you can descecrate the church the prophet and the only organization under heaven that can get you to heaven and that has the authority to do so.
Bro this isn't Sunday School. Your little LDS mantras you use as a bludgeon are shrugged off by people who actually feast on the words of Christ... Might as well look in the mirror and quote yourself


O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
It isnt Sunday School, and yet it is still true. When you read that scripture you quoted below it actually implies that you do what he says. The path is very narrow and it is only as outlined by him. You cant disregard everything he says and think by some miracale you will still make it. He will just simply say "Ye know me not". That strait course starts with Jacobs ladder ( Temple ), then Baptism by fire, 2nd anoiting and then Exaltation. You just cant skip any steps along the way.

You cant say ah yea Lord you just arent right, I really dont like that prophet you called i think he is stupid and wrong and oh by the way Lord i dont think he has ever been inspired or performed a miracle, and about that church, you know the saints you have suck, oh and i dont like how they spend tithing money too, yes i know this probably makes me sound a little like Judas because i know he used to complain how the church spent its money, but it is okay that i complain about it because Judas was just you know, well Judas. I am so much batter than he. and yea i just think going to church being surronded by all those horrible people who call themselves saints is not for me. The temple oh my gosh the temple just sucks too.... I mean comeon, you know there are a couple scriptures in the bible and i think i got it all figured out. I think the church sucks, the prophets sucks according to some scriptures i think i know everything about it and all i need to do is nothing. I can claim to give all my money to those in need even though i dont and Lord i am just going to sit by and speak ill of everyone and everything and especially about this crappy prophet and crappy church. Oh but dont worry i know you will save me, because i am just cutting out all the crap and coming strait to you. I dont need to do as the scriptures say, ill just come to you and all by the way i expect you to come visit me and tell me i am so holy that i am to be exalted. By the way Lord i am stillwating for my Rameumptom Lord please send it soon so i can feel better about myself.
“That strait course starts with Jacobs ladder ( Temple ), then Baptism by fire, 2nd anoiting and then Exaltation. You just cant skip any steps along the way.“
Besides d&c, where is this doctrine found? If the temple and the “2nd anointing” were needed for “exaltation” where was it restored from and why wasn’t it taught plainly by Christ and his disciples?
The term “exaltation” is not found in the Bible or the BOM.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by blitzinstripes »

The ability to use a seer stone is a spiritual gift like any other. Some have it greater than others. Sometimes the gifts tend to be hereditary based on certain things in our lineage. Joseph had the ability to use seer stones long before he was given the plates. In fact he had been using various stones and exercising that gift since he was a child. It only seems strange to the world because the world has become numb to spiritual things. This is a generation lacking in faith.

Chris
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Chris »

Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 12:48 pm
Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 12:30 pm
nightlight wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:51 am
Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:29 am

. thinking you can descecrate the church the prophet and the only organization under heaven that can get you to heaven and that has the authority to do so.
Bro this isn't Sunday School. Your little LDS mantras you use as a bludgeon are shrugged off by people who actually feast on the words of Christ... Might as well look in the mirror and quote yourself


O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
It isnt Sunday School, and yet it is still true. When you read that scripture you quoted below it actually implies that you do what he says. The path is very narrow and it is only as outlined by him. You cant disregard everything he says and think by some miracale you will still make it. He will just simply say "Ye know me not". That strait course starts with Jacobs ladder ( Temple ), then Baptism by fire, 2nd anoiting and then Exaltation. You just cant skip any steps along the way.

You cant say ah yea Lord you just arent right, I really dont like that prophet you called i think he is stupid and wrong and oh by the way Lord i dont think he has ever been inspired or performed a miracle, and about that church, you know the saints you have suck, oh and i dont like how they spend tithing money too, yes i know this probably makes me sound a little like Judas because i know he used to complain how the church spent its money, but it is okay that i complain about it because Judas was just you know, well Judas. I am so much batter than he. and yea i just think going to church being surronded by all those horrible people who call themselves saints is not for me. The temple oh my gosh the temple just sucks too.... I mean comeon, you know there are a couple scriptures in the bible and i think i got it all figured out. I think the church sucks, the prophets sucks according to some scriptures i think i know everything about it and all i need to do is nothing. I can claim to give all my money to those in need even though i dont and Lord i am just going to sit by and speak ill of everyone and everything and especially about this crappy prophet and crappy church. Oh but dont worry i know you will save me, because i am just cutting out all the crap and coming strait to you. I dont need to do as the scriptures say, ill just come to you and all by the way i expect you to come visit me and tell me i am so holy that i am to be exalted. By the way Lord i am stillwating for my Rameumptom Lord please send it soon so i can feel better about myself.
“That strait course starts with Jacobs ladder ( Temple ), then Baptism by fire, 2nd anoiting and then Exaltation. You just cant skip any steps along the way.“
Besides d&c, where is this doctrine found? If the temple and the “2nd anointing” were needed for “exaltation” where was it restored from and why wasn’t it taught plainly by Christ and his disciples?
The term “exaltation” is not found in the Bible or the BOM.
It is actually all through out all of the scriptures, all of those things. Jacob is the Son of Isaac, Isaac was the son of Abraham and it is in the bible and does talk about his temple expereince. Most temples also use the symbolism of the his experience. bouniful Temple is just one example of this on the windows of the Celestial room. Exaltation is talked about everywhere as well.

Speaking of the bountiful temple. I know someone who was cleaning in the Bountiful temple at night. He was changing bulbs on that big beautiful chandaler. the chain snapped holding the chandaler up instead of it crushing him. The whole thing floated from one end of the room to the other and was gently set down on the floor. Not one crystal fell off. There were 9 people in the room that witnessed it happen. Pretty amazing miracle if it was not considered the Lords house.....
Last edited by Chris on October 22nd, 2022, 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by blitzinstripes »

I wish the church wasn't so afraid and ashamed of such things to the world. It would be a wonderful thing if youth were taught the significance and beauty in such things and to seek such gifts rather than continue to set such pathetically low spiritual expectations for them.

Look at how they are taught to give priesthood healing blessings......"We sure hope you can be patient and comfortable, and trust the doctors to work it all out for you".... That requires no real faith and no priesthood power.

The translation narrative that shifted over time from the Urrim and Thummim, to "it just came through revelation", to finally admitting to the seer stone and the hat. Why are we so afraid to teach that God does supernatural things, including the use of crystals and stones?

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Luke
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Luke »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:30 am
Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 7:57 am I think it’s possible he authored it.
He was much smarter than the church gives him credit for.
When I saw Russell Nelson put his face in the hat to demonstrate how Joseph translated I realized I had been lied to and I asked why? Why has the church lied about the history and the origins of translation processes? What else are they covering up?At that point I had already read verses in the BOM that I had questions about and now I have more.
So what are you going to do Mamabear? Are you doing to throw out the Book of Mormon and the restoration and become and Evangelical Christian?
Unfortunately this is always what happens when you begin throwing out key Restoration doctrines for apostate Christian precepts.

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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by LDS Watchman »

Luke wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 2:45 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 9:30 am
Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 7:57 am I think it’s possible he authored it.
He was much smarter than the church gives him credit for.
When I saw Russell Nelson put his face in the hat to demonstrate how Joseph translated I realized I had been lied to and I asked why? Why has the church lied about the history and the origins of translation processes? What else are they covering up?At that point I had already read verses in the BOM that I had questions about and now I have more.
So what are you going to do Mamabear? Are you doing to throw out the Book of Mormon and the restoration and become and Evangelical Christian?
Unfortunately this is always what happens when you begin throwing out key Restoration doctrines for apostate Christian precepts.
Yup, and before too long the Bible gets tossed out, too because people realize that literally everything they don't like about the restored truths is in the Bible.

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Luke
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Luke »

Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:29 am They have not lied to anyone
This is just not true.
Chris wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 10:29 am The church isnt the bad guy even if it is made up of inperfect mortals who make mistakes. At least they are trying......
I could say the same thing to you, except say that "People who believe in the Gospel as taught by Joseph Smith are not bad people, they are at least trying". Which we are. Yet you seem to despise them and believe they are heading straight for hell. I've never damned you to hell for your belief in the modern LDS Church.

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Niemand
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Niemand »

Luke wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 6:15 am
Mamabear wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 5:44 am I know that the Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit in the OT, I think it’s curious that it’s not referred to this way in the BOM.
It's referred to as both. Do a word search, and you'll see. Also, "Ghost" and "Spirit" are synonyms. The word actually used on the golden plates themselves would have been the same.
Exactly, it's obscured a bit by the fact that "ghost" tends to mean a spook in modern English.

"Ghost" is just the Germanic word (Geist in German) and Spirit is the Latin-based word. There are a lot of these pairs in English because of the Norman Conquest etc: godly/divine, lawful/legal, hallowed/sanctified, gospel writer/evangelist.

Same with Messiah/Christ, only in this case the pair of synonyms are Hebrew- & Greek-based terms. In my mind there is little difference between these two words. Whenever people complain about the word "Christ" being used in the Book of Mormon they ignore this fact.

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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by iWriteStuff »

blitzinstripes wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 1:01 pm I wish the church wasn't so afraid and ashamed of such things to the world. It would be a wonderful thing if youth were taught the significance and beauty in such things and to seek such gifts rather than continue to set such pathetically low spiritual expectations for them.

Look at how they are taught to give priesthood healing blessings......"We sure hope you can be patient and comfortable, and trust the doctors to work it all out for you".... That requires no real faith and no priesthood power.

The translation narrative that shifted over time from the Urrim and Thummim, to "it just came through revelation", to finally admitting to the seer stone and the hat. Why are we so afraid to teach that God does supernatural things, including the use of crystals and stones?
Can you think of any prophets in the OT or NT who literally pulled their revelation out of a rock in a hat?

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Niemand
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Niemand »

iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:21 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 1:01 pm I wish the church wasn't so afraid and ashamed of such things to the world. It would be a wonderful thing if youth were taught the significance and beauty in such things and to seek such gifts rather than continue to set such pathetically low spiritual expectations for them.

Look at how they are taught to give priesthood healing blessings......"We sure hope you can be patient and comfortable, and trust the doctors to work it all out for you".... That requires no real faith and no priesthood power.

The translation narrative that shifted over time from the Urrim and Thummim, to "it just came through revelation", to finally admitting to the seer stone and the hat. Why are we so afraid to teach that God does supernatural things, including the use of crystals and stones?
Can you think of any prophets in the OT or NT who literally pulled their revelation out of a rock in a hat?
Ezekiel 4 tells us the prophet had to eat cakes made out of human excrement and lie on one side for 390 days.

Makes Joseph Smith look tame by comparison.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by iWriteStuff »

Niemand wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:47 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:21 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 1:01 pm I wish the church wasn't so afraid and ashamed of such things to the world. It would be a wonderful thing if youth were taught the significance and beauty in such things and to seek such gifts rather than continue to set such pathetically low spiritual expectations for them.

Look at how they are taught to give priesthood healing blessings......"We sure hope you can be patient and comfortable, and trust the doctors to work it all out for you".... That requires no real faith and no priesthood power.

The translation narrative that shifted over time from the Urrim and Thummim, to "it just came through revelation", to finally admitting to the seer stone and the hat. Why are we so afraid to teach that God does supernatural things, including the use of crystals and stones?
Can you think of any prophets in the OT or NT who literally pulled their revelation out of a rock in a hat?
Ezekiel 4 tells us the prophet had to eat cakes made out of human excrement and lie on one side for 390 days.

Makes Joseph Smith look tame by comparison.
So after poop cakes and poor sleep, what was the medium for receiving the revelation?

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Luke
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Luke »

iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:52 pm
Niemand wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:47 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:21 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 1:01 pm I wish the church wasn't so afraid and ashamed of such things to the world. It would be a wonderful thing if youth were taught the significance and beauty in such things and to seek such gifts rather than continue to set such pathetically low spiritual expectations for them.

Look at how they are taught to give priesthood healing blessings......"We sure hope you can be patient and comfortable, and trust the doctors to work it all out for you".... That requires no real faith and no priesthood power.

The translation narrative that shifted over time from the Urrim and Thummim, to "it just came through revelation", to finally admitting to the seer stone and the hat. Why are we so afraid to teach that God does supernatural things, including the use of crystals and stones?
Can you think of any prophets in the OT or NT who literally pulled their revelation out of a rock in a hat?
Ezekiel 4 tells us the prophet had to eat cakes made out of human excrement and lie on one side for 390 days.

Makes Joseph Smith look tame by comparison.
So after poop cakes and poor sleep, what was the medium for receiving the revelation?
Why did Moses use a stick to split oceans and make water emerge from rocks?

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Book of Mormon questions

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Luke wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 4:05 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:52 pm
Niemand wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:47 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:21 pm

Can you think of any prophets in the OT or NT who literally pulled their revelation out of a rock in a hat?
Ezekiel 4 tells us the prophet had to eat cakes made out of human excrement and lie on one side for 390 days.

Makes Joseph Smith look tame by comparison.
So after poop cakes and poor sleep, what was the medium for receiving the revelation?
Why did Moses use a stick to split oceans and make water emerge from rocks?
Did he use it to receive revelation from God? When God spoke to Moses, did He speak through the stick?

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Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: Book of Mormon questions

Post by Luke »

iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 4:07 pm
Luke wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 4:05 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:52 pm
Niemand wrote: October 22nd, 2022, 3:47 pm

Ezekiel 4 tells us the prophet had to eat cakes made out of human excrement and lie on one side for 390 days.

Makes Joseph Smith look tame by comparison.
So after poop cakes and poor sleep, what was the medium for receiving the revelation?
Why did Moses use a stick to split oceans and make water emerge from rocks?
Did he use it to receive revelation from God? When God spoke to Moses, did He speak through the stick?
Why is the difference whether or not it's used as a means of revelation?

People using objects for "supernatural" purposes is the same across the board.

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