Make not gods of your prophets

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:44 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 9:04 am
JLHPROF wrote: November 5th, 2022, 8:52 am
ransomme wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:11 am

"But the ordinances and priesthood are still required and so is submission to those who preside."

Wow, really? You must submit... No questions asked?

The only reason why Nelson is seemingly questioned so much is because he and the other Brethren spread misinformation under the guise of authority, and veneer that it was from God using careful language to suggest as much, without saying it. The vax is neither safe nor effective, and they have yet to repent, as evidenced by a lack of an apology.
It's hilarious to me that it's the vaccine recommendation that has caused so many to call the prophet fallen.
Not something religious or doctrinal but something medical.
Modern day Godbeites.
So when a man claims to be a prophet of God, says to do something that was sent by God, but then maims/kills them... How can this be seen as anything other than a corrupt fruit? Can a good tree produce corrupt fruit? What did Christ say about this?

For many, there have been a multitude of real, legitimate, instances of evidence of corrupt fruit prior to the covid fiasco that could be excused in their minds. But when this happened, it was the last straw and could deny it no longer.
Was it corrup fruit that people died following Joseph's call to go to Zion or Brigham's to go to Utah?

Does this make them both false prophets? Yes or no?
One was to flee Babylon, one was to build Babylon.

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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 12:51 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:44 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 9:04 am
JLHPROF wrote: November 5th, 2022, 8:52 am
It's hilarious to me that it's the vaccine recommendation that has caused so many to call the prophet fallen.
Not something religious or doctrinal but something medical.
Modern day Godbeites.
So when a man claims to be a prophet of God, says to do something that was sent by God, but then maims/kills them... How can this be seen as anything other than a corrupt fruit? Can a good tree produce corrupt fruit? What did Christ say about this?

For many, there have been a multitude of real, legitimate, instances of evidence of corrupt fruit prior to the covid fiasco that could be excused in their minds. But when this happened, it was the last straw and could deny it no longer.
Was it corrup fruit that people died following Joseph's call to go to Zion or Brigham's to go to Utah?

Does this make them both false prophets? Yes or no?
One was to flee Babylon, one was to build Babylon.
Nope. What else you got?

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InfoWarrior82
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Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 1:15 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 12:51 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:44 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 9:04 am

So when a man claims to be a prophet of God, says to do something that was sent by God, but then maims/kills them... How can this be seen as anything other than a corrupt fruit? Can a good tree produce corrupt fruit? What did Christ say about this?

For many, there have been a multitude of real, legitimate, instances of evidence of corrupt fruit prior to the covid fiasco that could be excused in their minds. But when this happened, it was the last straw and could deny it no longer.
Was it corrup fruit that people died following Joseph's call to go to Zion or Brigham's to go to Utah?

Does this make them both false prophets? Yes or no?
One was to flee Babylon, one was to build Babylon.
Nope. What else you got?
Ok man

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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:29 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 1:15 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 12:51 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:44 am

Was it corrup fruit that people died following Joseph's call to go to Zion or Brigham's to go to Utah?

Does this make them both false prophets? Yes or no?
One was to flee Babylon, one was to build Babylon.
Nope. What else you got?
Ok man
If people suffering and dying for following the recommendations of a prophet is proof positive that the prophet is a false prophet, then you have to toss out a whole bunch of true prophets.

Your attitude towards RMN is no different than the attitude that Laman and Lemual and the sons and daughters of Ishmael had towards Lehi for leading them into the desert and Ishmael dying while they all suffered. Or the children of Israel and Moses. Or the apostates in Joseph Smith's day or Brigham's day.

It's the exact same attitude.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:37 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:29 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 1:15 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 12:51 pm

One was to flee Babylon, one was to build Babylon.
Nope. What else you got?
Ok man
If people suffering and dying for following the recommendations of a prophet is proof positive that the prophet is a false prophet, then you have to toss out a whole bunch of true prophets.

Your attitude towards RMN is no different than the attitude that Laman and Lemual and the sons and daughters of Ishmael had towards Lehi for leading them into the desert and Ishmael dying while they all suffered. Or the children of Israel and Moses. Or the apostates in Joseph Smith's day or Brigham's day.

It's the exact same attitude.
These men have no scriptural fruits. The prophets in our scriptures

And if you think joining with secret combinations is perfectly fine, then I have nothing more I can say to you.

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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:47 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:37 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:29 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 1:15 pm

Nope. What else you got?
Ok man
If people suffering and dying for following the recommendations of a prophet is proof positive that the prophet is a false prophet, then you have to toss out a whole bunch of true prophets.

Your attitude towards RMN is no different than the attitude that Laman and Lemual and the sons and daughters of Ishmael had towards Lehi for leading them into the desert and Ishmael dying while they all suffered. Or the children of Israel and Moses. Or the apostates in Joseph Smith's day or Brigham's day.

It's the exact same attitude.
These men have no scriptural fruits. The prophets in our scriptures did.
The apostates in the days of yore said the EXACT same thing. They believed in the dead prophets but rejected the current ones.

Same old song and dance.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:50 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:47 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:37 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:29 pm

Ok man
If people suffering and dying for following the recommendations of a prophet is proof positive that the prophet is a false prophet, then you have to toss out a whole bunch of true prophets.

Your attitude towards RMN is no different than the attitude that Laman and Lemual and the sons and daughters of Ishmael had towards Lehi for leading them into the desert and Ishmael dying while they all suffered. Or the children of Israel and Moses. Or the apostates in Joseph Smith's day or Brigham's day.

It's the exact same attitude.
These men have no scriptural fruits. The prophets in our scriptures did.
The apostates in the days of yore said the EXACT same thing. They believed in the dead prophets but rejected the current ones.

Same old song and dance.
I'm just following the Lord's instructions on how to judge a man who claims to be a prophet of God, and it's not looking good for these men.

LDS Watchman
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:52 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:50 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:47 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:37 pm

If people suffering and dying for following the recommendations of a prophet is proof positive that the prophet is a false prophet, then you have to toss out a whole bunch of true prophets.

Your attitude towards RMN is no different than the attitude that Laman and Lemual and the sons and daughters of Ishmael had towards Lehi for leading them into the desert and Ishmael dying while they all suffered. Or the children of Israel and Moses. Or the apostates in Joseph Smith's day or Brigham's day.

It's the exact same attitude.
These men have no scriptural fruits. The prophets in our scriptures did.
The apostates in the days of yore said the EXACT same thing. They believed in the dead prophets but rejected the current ones.

Same old song and dance.
I'm just following the Lord's instructions on how to judge a man who claims to be a prophet of God, and it's not looking good for these men.
Have you ever read any of the words of apostates in the days of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young? They all said the exact same thing.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:55 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:52 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:50 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:47 pm

These men have no scriptural fruits. The prophets in our scriptures did.
The apostates in the days of yore said the EXACT same thing. They believed in the dead prophets but rejected the current ones.

Same old song and dance.
I'm just following the Lord's instructions on how to judge a man who claims to be a prophet of God, and it's not looking good for these men.
Have you ever read any of the words of apostates in the days of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young? They all said the exact same thing.
And they're wrong because Joseph Smith DID have scriptural fruits.

LDS Watchman
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:56 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:55 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:52 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:50 pm

The apostates in the days of yore said the EXACT same thing. They believed in the dead prophets but rejected the current ones.

Same old song and dance.
I'm just following the Lord's instructions on how to judge a man who claims to be a prophet of God, and it's not looking good for these men.
Have you ever read any of the words of apostates in the days of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young? They all said the exact same thing.
And they're wrong because Joseph Smith DID have scriptural fruits.
Like people losing all of their money when the Kirtland safety society failed or people being raped or killed after gathering to Zion and being told that the time had come to build the New Jerusalem and that nothing could stop them?

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InfoWarrior82
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Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:56 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:55 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:52 pm

I'm just following the Lord's instructions on how to judge a man who claims to be a prophet of God, and it's not looking good for these men.
Have you ever read any of the words of apostates in the days of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young? They all said the exact same thing.
And they're wrong because Joseph Smith DID have scriptural fruits.
Like people losing all of their money when the Kirtland safety society failed or people being raped or killed after gathering to Zion and being told that the time had come to build the New Jerusalem and that nothing could stop them?
Many of the failures that happened during Joseph Smith's time were because of the incorrect use of agency among the membership.

LDS Watchman
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:09 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:56 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:55 pm

Have you ever read any of the words of apostates in the days of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young? They all said the exact same thing.
And they're wrong because Joseph Smith DID have scriptural fruits.
Like people losing all of their money when the Kirtland safety society failed or people being raped or killed after gathering to Zion and being told that the time had come to build the New Jerusalem and that nothing could stop them?
Many of the failures that happened during Joseph Smith's time were because of the incorrect use of agency among the membership.
Same can be said for today.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by Shawn Henry »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:31 am He said it was his church after the meeting in May of 1834. So it was called in his name. End of story.
He still owns it in its apostate condition, just as when he has a faithful bride and an adulterous bride. Both still his bride, right?

You're completely dancing around the fact that Joseph is petitioning the Lord to put his name back on the church.

We can argue all day what that means, but we should be in complete agreement that it happened.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by Shawn Henry »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 5th, 2022, 1:12 am Also, how is anything you quoted different than what I said? Were Newel K. Whiney, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery, Frederick G. Williams, or any of the members you referenced the prophet?
How is that different? I showed the quote where Joseph Smith was the moderator at the meeting. You, on the other lied, just lied and said none of the names I quoted were the prophet.

You've been caught lying old man.

By the way, everyone agrees they were other churches by that name. The point you keep avoiding is that that name had worked for the church for 4 years. There is little reason to change it after 4 years and prophets never would approve of removing Christ's name.

Now please explain why Joseph is petitioning the Lord to restore his name to the church and stop avoiding that fact.

By the way, the name was divine revelation, because the BoM was divine revelation. Why would the Lord give two revelations saying the same thing?

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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:46 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:31 am He said it was his church after the meeting in May of 1834. So it was called in his name. End of story.
He still owns it in its apostate condition, just as when he has a faithful bride and an adulterous bride. Both still his bride, right?

You're completely dancing around the fact that Joseph is petitioning the Lord to put his name back on the church.

We can argue all day what that means, but we should be in complete agreement that it happened.
D&C 109 doesn't say "back."

And you are completely ignoring the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon.

But by all means, carry on.

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ransomme
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by ransomme »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:56 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:55 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:52 pm

I'm just following the Lord's instructions on how to judge a man who claims to be a prophet of God, and it's not looking good for these men.
Have you ever read any of the words of apostates in the days of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young? They all said the exact same thing.
And they're wrong because Joseph Smith DID have scriptural fruits.
Like people losing all of their money when the Kirtland safety society failed or people being raped or killed after gathering to Zion and being told that the time had come to build the New Jerusalem and that nothing could stop them?
The people could murmur all they wanted, but they were also the unfaithful ones who had difficulty living worthily. I don't judge them, I know that Satan was blitzing, doing a full-court press...

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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

ransomme wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:02 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:56 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:55 pm

Have you ever read any of the words of apostates in the days of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young? They all said the exact same thing.
And they're wrong because Joseph Smith DID have scriptural fruits.
Like people losing all of their money when the Kirtland safety society failed or people being raped or killed after gathering to Zion and being told that the time had come to build the New Jerusalem and that nothing could stop them?
The people could murmur all they wanted, but they were also the unfaithful ones who had difficulty living worthily. I don't judge them, I know that Satan was blitzing, doing a full-court press...
The same situation exists today.

And we don't have to look any further than this forum to see people murmuring all they want.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by Shawn Henry »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:59 pm D&C 109 doesn't say "back."

And you are completely ignoring the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon.

But by all means, carry on.
Why would he have to say "back" when everyone knows that was the name. You're just saying dumb things to keep your lousy argument going forward.

It was The Church of Christ, obviously because of the revelation within the BoM and that was the legal name as well.

The name of Christ was then removed, there was a legal name change. Obviously, Joseph petitioning the Lord to put it on the church, meant to put it back on. I can't believe you would put forth that argument.

I'm not avoiding the BoM at all, did you even read what I wrote about the bride of Christ, it's the same thing. He still owns it in its apostate condition.

Him later referencing it as his church means that they are invited to return, but he still removed his name.

Why do I not get much intellectual honesty from you? I have addressed your points, yet you refuse to state why you think Joseph would have to ask the Lord to put his name on the church, if it wasn't the Lord who removed it?

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ransomme
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by ransomme »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:07 pm
ransomme wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:02 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 5th, 2022, 2:56 pm

And they're wrong because Joseph Smith DID have scriptural fruits.
Like people losing all of their money when the Kirtland safety society failed or people being raped or killed after gathering to Zion and being told that the time had come to build the New Jerusalem and that nothing could stop them?
The people could murmur all they wanted, but they were also the unfaithful ones who had difficulty living worthily. I don't judge them, I know that Satan was blitzing, doing a full-court press...
The same situation exists today.

And we don't have to look any further than this forum to see people murmuring all they want.
are you the pot or the kettle?

ye without sin cast the first stone...

LDS Watchman
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:20 pm
You're just saying dumb things to keep your lousy argument going forward.
Shawn Henry wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:20 pm Why do I not get much intellectual honesty from you?
You're projecting.

LDS Watchman
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

ransomme wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:25 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:07 pm
ransomme wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:02 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:01 pm

Like people losing all of their money when the Kirtland safety society failed or people being raped or killed after gathering to Zion and being told that the time had come to build the New Jerusalem and that nothing could stop them?
The people could murmur all they wanted, but they were also the unfaithful ones who had difficulty living worthily. I don't judge them, I know that Satan was blitzing, doing a full-court press...
The same situation exists today.

And we don't have to look any further than this forum to see people murmuring all they want.
are you the pot or the kettle?

ye without sin cast the first stone...
I'm guilty of murmuring sometimes.

What else you got?

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ransomme
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by ransomme »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:59 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:46 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:31 am He said it was his church after the meeting in May of 1834. So it was called in his name. End of story.
He still owns it in its apostate condition, just as when he has a faithful bride and an adulterous bride. Both still his bride, right?

You're completely dancing around the fact that Joseph is petitioning the Lord to put his name back on the church.

We can argue all day what that means, but we should be in complete agreement that it happened.
D&C 109 doesn't say "back."

And you are completely ignoring the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon.

But by all means, carry on.
It doesn't say "back" that is technically true, but why are you trying to parse words?

In 1836 the Church did not have the name of Christ in/on it, which is why in the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland temple Joseph petitioned the Lord to put his name on the Church once again:

"78 O hear, O hear, O hear us, O Lord! And answer these petitions, and accept the dedication of this house unto thee, the work of our hands, which we have built unto thy name;
79 And also this church, to put upon it thy name..." (D&C 109)

The Church's website publishes falsehoods about this https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... h?lang=eng
Last edited by ransomme on November 5th, 2022, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by Shawn Henry »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:26 pm You're projecting.
As you completely avoid the questions, proving my point.

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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

ransomme wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:33 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:59 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: November 5th, 2022, 3:46 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 10:31 am He said it was his church after the meeting in May of 1834. So it was called in his name. End of story.
He still owns it in its apostate condition, just as when he has a faithful bride and an adulterous bride. Both still his bride, right?

You're completely dancing around the fact that Joseph is petitioning the Lord to put his name back on the church.

We can argue all day what that means, but we should be in complete agreement that it happened.
D&C 109 doesn't say "back."

And you are completely ignoring the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon.

But by all means, carry on.
It doesn't say "back" that is technically true, but why are you trying to parse words?

In 1836 the Church did not have the name of Christ in/on it, which is why in the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland temple Joseph petitioned the Lord to put his name on the Church once again:

"78 O hear, O hear, O hear us, O Lord! And answer these petitions, and accept the dedication of this house unto thee, the work of our hands, which we have built unto thy name;
79 And also this church, to put upon it thy name..." (D&C 109)
Did you read any of my previous responses about what the Lord said in 3 Nephi?

Doesn't sound like you did.

Christ said that it can ONLY be his Church if his name is upon it. He repeatedly referred to the church as "his church" from May 1834 onward. So by default, his name had to still be on it.

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Re: Make not gods of your prophets

Post by LDS Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:33 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 5th, 2022, 4:26 pm You're projecting.
As you completely avoid the questions, proving my point.
I have answered your questions. You refuse to address what Jesus Christ said in 3 Nephi. We're done until you do.

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