Is the Church Spying on Us?

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
NowWhat
captain of 100
Posts: 217

Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by NowWhat »

Not on this site, because we are anonymous, hopefully. But on other sites, we use our names.

This, from a person on another LDS thread:

"We would be found to be in apostasy for saying that President Nelson was at the very least wildly incorrect and devastatingly wrong when he said safe and effective. And what’s creepier than that is that the Strengthening the Church committee in the Church Administration Building in Salt Lake City, with who knows how many employees, is scouring the Internet and looking for comments like these so they can bring the member in question into a disciplinary counsel prompted by Church Headquarters and not by a bishop or a stake president...Yes they’ve been doing it for many years… And President Nelson spearheaded the project when he was in the Quorum of the 12."

Is there truth to this? I knew that freedom of speech is history in the Church, but, really, guys?

User avatar
ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4014

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by ransomme »

they are coming to take me away, they are coming to take me away

They know that I have said that President Nelson calling the clot/kill shot a godsend was blasphemous, and that it was irresponsible and an abuse of position/power/priesthood to push the vaccine and to claim with no knowledge that it was "safe and effective". He continues in crooked paths for not repenting. However, I don't know how one makes restitution for that.

And I am imperfect and need to repent and keep my eyes on God too.

larsenb
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by larsenb »

ransomme wrote: October 20th, 2022, 2:40 pm they are coming to take me away, they are coming to take me away

They know that I have said that President Nelson calling the clot/kill shot a godsend was blasphemous, and that it was irresponsible and an abuse of position/power/priesthood to push the vaccine and to claim with no knowledge that it was "safe and effective". He continues in crooked paths for not repenting. However, I don't know how one makes restitution for that.

And I am imperfect and need to repent and keep my eyes on God too.
Ha, ha.

Serragon
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3444

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by Serragon »

I don't think this happens much or often.

Membership councils are becoming more and more rare, while online opposition is becoming more and more common. If this was once a priority, I don't believe it currently is.

User avatar
ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4014

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by ransomme »

Serragon wrote: October 20th, 2022, 2:44 pm I don't think this happens much or often.

Membership councils are becoming more and more rare, while online opposition is becoming more and more common. If this was once a priority, I don't believe it currently is.
there is not enough manpower to follow up. But perhaps they just aim for select voices that appear to be more influential

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8240
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by creator »

NowWhat wrote: October 20th, 2022, 2:22 pmIs there truth to this? I knew that freedom of speech is history in the Church, but, really, guys?
The Strengthening Church Members Committee is real. The Church has also employed people to participate on various online forums.

It's not like the Church would be spying on each member individually but probably looking at trends in the Church and being aware of those who are gaining a following, like Denver Snuffer, AVOW, Daybell, Phil Davis (DoC), the New Order Mormons, fundamentalists, etc.

Image

Atrasado
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1773

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by Atrasado »

My understanding was that it was Elder Boyd Packer who started that and his best friend Elder Merlin Lybbert (Sister Renlund's father) who ran it for years. They really do scan social media and they are, I would assume, very aware of this forum. I am sure they would like to know who some of us are.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by Mamabear »

creator wrote: October 20th, 2022, 3:04 pm
NowWhat wrote: October 20th, 2022, 2:22 pmIs there truth to this? I knew that freedom of speech is history in the Church, but, really, guys?
The Strengthening Church Members Committee is real. The Church has also employed people to participate on various online forums.

It's not like the Church would be spying on each member individually but probably looking at trends in the Church and being aware of those who are gaining a following, like Denver Snuffer, AVOW, Daybell, Phil Davis (DoC), the New Order Mormons, fundamentalists, etc.

Image
Lol. Just watched this last night.
Gollum: “Sneaky little hobbitses.”
Forum spies: “sneaky little ex memberses.”

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by EmmaLee »

Wasn't there an apostle or two in the last several years who encouraged/admonished members to use their real names online? Seems a dangerous thing to do in this world. But now I wonder if there was an ulterior motive for them wanting members to use their real names on forums and such.

blitzinstripes
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2294

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by blitzinstripes »

creator wrote: October 20th, 2022, 3:04 pm
NowWhat wrote: October 20th, 2022, 2:22 pmIs there truth to this? I knew that freedom of speech is history in the Church, but, really, guys?
The Strengthening Church Members Committee is real. The Church has also employed people to participate on various online forums.

It's not like the Church would be spying on each member individually but probably looking at trends in the Church and being aware of those who are gaining a following, like Denver Snuffer, AVOW, Daybell, Phil Davis (DoC), the New Order Mormons, fundamentalists, etc.

Image
I believe we may have a few of those SCMC members here. But if they are, they are really bad at their jobs. The screening process needs to be more selective. 😁

User avatar
FoxMammaWisdom
The Heretic
Posts: 3778
Location: I think and I know things.

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

What makes anyone think they are anonymous just because they don't use their real name? :?:

100% the church is spying on you. The home teaching program was created in the first place to spy on people and see if they were polygamists (there's an audio recording - heard it myself - someone here on the forum has it).

Brothels were owned/built by the church in SLC and other places by the church to spy on members that way too. (Google that.)

I worked for LDS Foundation - now LDS Philanthropies, and trained the people above me getting paid the big $, how to use the database the church has on EVERYONE, so they could go thru records and mine potential million-billion dollar donors who might want tax writeoffs. You have no idea the info I saw on ANYONE I looked up - no matter their status in society, even members known globally - people like the owner of Jet Blue, down to nobodies like me just a single mom... I had it all in front of me. You seriously have no idea what they have on everyone in that database - things people would not know about themselves. I was also a licensed Private Investigator for awhile - the government databases I had access to did NOT have the info the church has on all of us. (Gov doesn't care about things like that boy or girl you "petted with" when you were 16, but the church has that in your file right next to everything else you hope that bishop didn't write down that one time.., and also your financial info, account numbers, past jobs, relationships, connections, talents, sooooo many fun things they collect that people just hand out without understanding they are doing it.) And that was only one database - not even the super duper duper secret info they collect and use where they have a copy of your blood information from that pinprick the hospital did on you as a baby, and compare and track you with the spit you submit thru 23&Me. ;)

Somebody ought to check into the "steple-tech" installed in church ward houses, and see what that does. ;)

Nothing new under the sun!

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by Mamabear »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: October 20th, 2022, 4:07 pm What makes anyone think they are anonymous just because they don't use their real name? :?:

100% the church is spying on you. The home teaching program was created in the first place to spy on people and see if they were polygamists (there's an audio recording - heard it myself - someone here on the forum has it).

Brothels were owned/built by the church in SLC and other places by the church to spy on members that way too. (Google that.)

I worked for LDS Foundation - now LDS Philanthropies, and trained the people above me getting paid the big $, how to use the database the church has on EVERYONE, so they could go thru records and mine potential million-billion dollar donors who might want tax writeoffs. You have no idea the info I saw on ANYONE I looked up - no matter their status in society, even members known globally - people like the owner of Jet Blue, down to nobodies like me just a single mom... I had it all in front of me. You seriously have no idea what they have on everyone in that database - things people would not know about themselves. I was also a licensed Private Investigator for awhile - the government databases I had access to did NOT have the info the church has on all of us. (Gov doesn't care about things like that boy or girl you "petted with" when you were 16, but the church has that in your file right next to everything else you hope that bishop didn't write down that one time.., and also your financial info, account numbers, past jobs, relationships, connections, talents, sooooo many fun things they collect that people just hand out without understanding they are doing it.) And that was only one database - not even the super duper duper secret info they collect and use where they have a copy of your blood information from that pinprick the hospital did on you as a baby, and compare and track you with the spit you submit thru 23&Me. ;)

Somebody ought to check into the "steple-tech" installed in church ward houses, and see what that does. ;)

Nothing new under the sun!
Creepy. So the things you saw, did they include people’s confessions and private things of that nature? Do they have account numbers you don’t give them? Financial info that they should not know?

User avatar
gruden2.0
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1465

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by gruden2.0 »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: October 20th, 2022, 4:07 pm What makes anyone think they are anonymous just because they don't use their real name? :?:

100% the church is spying on you. The home teaching program was created in the first place to spy on people and see if they were polygamists (there's an audio recording - heard it myself - someone here on the forum has it).

Brothels were owned/built by the church in SLC and other places by the church to spy on members that way too. (Google that.)

I worked for LDS Foundation - now LDS Philanthropies, and trained the people above me getting paid the big $, how to use the database the church has on EVERYONE, so they could go thru records and mine potential million-billion dollar donors who might want tax writeoffs. You have no idea the info I saw on ANYONE I looked up - no matter their status in society, even members known globally - people like the owner of Jet Blue, down to nobodies like me just a single mom... I had it all in front of me. You seriously have no idea what they have on everyone in that database - things people would not know about themselves. I was also a licensed Private Investigator for awhile - the government databases I had access to did NOT have the info the church has on all of us. (Gov doesn't care about things like that boy or girl you "petted with" when you were 16, but the church has that in your file right next to everything else you hope that bishop didn't write down that one time.., and also your financial info, account numbers, past jobs, relationships, connections, talents, sooooo many fun things they collect that people just hand out without understanding they are doing it.) And that was only one database - not even the super duper duper secret info they collect and use where they have a copy of your blood information from that pinprick the hospital did on you as a baby, and compare and track you with the spit you submit thru 23&Me. ;)

Somebody ought to check into the "steple-tech" installed in church ward houses, and see what that does. ;)

Nothing new under the sun!
Explains why they don't remove your information once you leave the church.

blitzinstripes
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2294

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by blitzinstripes »

What is "steple tech"?

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by EmmaLee »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: October 20th, 2022, 4:07 pm What makes anyone think they are anonymous just because they don't use their real name?

How would the church get people's real names off of LDSFF, for example, unless the church hacks into this system (which wouldn't surprise me, tbh).

tribrac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4367
Location: The land northward

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by tribrac »

They could ask the guy who runs the site to give the list.

tribrac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4367
Location: The land northward

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by tribrac »

File a lawsuit saying the site published copyrighted materials so in discovery get a court to order the release of the user data.

Or call up their friends at Google and buy a list of people and location data...

User avatar
FoxMammaWisdom
The Heretic
Posts: 3778
Location: I think and I know things.

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Mamabear wrote: October 20th, 2022, 4:19 pm
FoxMammaWisdom wrote: October 20th, 2022, 4:07 pm What makes anyone think they are anonymous just because they don't use their real name? :?:

100% the church is spying on you. The home teaching program was created in the first place to spy on people and see if they were polygamists (there's an audio recording - heard it myself - someone here on the forum has it).

Brothels were owned/built by the church in SLC and other places by the church to spy on members that way too. (Google that.)

I worked for LDS Foundation - now LDS Philanthropies, and trained the people above me getting paid the big $, how to use the database the church has on EVERYONE, so they could go thru records and mine potential million-billion dollar donors who might want tax writeoffs. You have no idea the info I saw on ANYONE I looked up - no matter their status in society, even members known globally - people like the owner of Jet Blue, down to nobodies like me just a single mom... I had it all in front of me. You seriously have no idea what they have on everyone in that database - things people would not know about themselves. I was also a licensed Private Investigator for awhile - the government databases I had access to did NOT have the info the church has on all of us. (Gov doesn't care about things like that boy or girl you "petted with" when you were 16, but the church has that in your file right next to everything else you hope that bishop didn't write down that one time.., and also your financial info, account numbers, past jobs, relationships, connections, talents, sooooo many fun things they collect that people just hand out without understanding they are doing it.) And that was only one database - not even the super duper duper secret info they collect and use where they have a copy of your blood information from that pinprick the hospital did on you as a baby, and compare and track you with the spit you submit thru 23&Me. ;)

Somebody ought to check into the "steple-tech" installed in church ward houses, and see what that does. ;)

Nothing new under the sun!
Creepy. So the things you saw, did they include people’s confessions and private things of that nature? Do they have account numbers you don’t give them? Financial info that they should not know?
I did not personally have access to the confession stuff, but could see personal life things in the database that gave enough info to paint pictures of certain things - like divorces for eg.
Yes I could see account numbers for some things, and definitely lots of financial info.

User avatar
FoxMammaWisdom
The Heretic
Posts: 3778
Location: I think and I know things.

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

EmmaLee wrote: October 20th, 2022, 6:31 pm
FoxMammaWisdom wrote: October 20th, 2022, 4:07 pm What makes anyone think they are anonymous just because they don't use their real name?

How would the church get people's real names off of LDSFF, for example, unless the church hacks into this system (which wouldn't surprise me, tbh).
I was doxxed on Twitter one time for upsetting someone with my Joe Biden snark. They did it in 30 seconds - they had info about my life with my ex husband from 15 years ago and typed it right on Twitter. The only reason they told me they doxxed me was to scare me - if they never told me, they could have cruised around my computer and all my accounts all day without me knowing about it.

Church has powers/money/support/tech, etc., a stupid Twitter hacker jerk only wishes he had. And the church wants to run the world and keep eyes on their money bringers. No doubt they watch, and no doubt they hack whatever system they want to, beneath their level on the power structure.

hyloglyph
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1043

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by hyloglyph »

Nobody here may actually care to know but just as an FYI on how it generally works:

There’s no disciplinary councils or excommunication or anything like that unless you have a huge following or are extremely outspoken publicly.

There’s a difference between being outspoken in word and outspoken in written word as well.

And there is a difference between being outspoken with words and writing compared to there being some type of action involved like meet ups or sacraments or political actions or various other things.

It is all calculated on a scale of severity.

Posts on forums won’t be enough for any type of disciplinary action to be taken against you at all. That is barring some big viral event that gets a huge amount of attention that you then stoke with further postings.

All that said, your postings do affect you. But in ways that you won’t notice.

And your bishop won’t know either.

He may know that things like this might go on depending on how much he was in the loop before being called as a bishop but he won’t know any specifics while he is a bishop.

Generally they look for sincere, decent men to be bishop. And they like to keep them basically 100% disconnected from anything that isn’t 100% above board and forthright. Bishops for the most part are totally innocent and good. If they are guilty of anything it would just be the normal little bit of authority getting to their head and possibly guilty of a bit of negligence for being dopey and not gaining a true understanding of what is happening around them but they genuinely try to pick the most decent guys in the ward as bishop.

This is just speaking about the intermountain west too. The strategy has to be adjusted in places with poorer access to qualified men but in UT, ID, AZ and some parts of Nevada, Colorado, and California finding guys to do this type of thing is easier than finding a good plumber. There are so many trusting good guys who are professional and just willing to work for their family and church all day most days.

So bishops are not involved. Stake Presidents are barely involved. The program is run through Salt Lake by some area authorities and 70s that answer to one of the 12 but the 12 basically stay out of it completely except in special cases. They use people who are paid to do the actual day to day stuff. The lower authorities involve the Stake President if needed but only if needed. Stake President bypasses the bishops and run it through the EQ president if needed but only if needed.

The person doing the posting of potentially lead-members-astray type information will never really know or suspect that he is on anyones radar at all. He usually will even be purposely given callings where he can teach in a controlled environment like gospel doctrine or EQ or Young mens. And then one or two guys make sure to be in the room while he teaches. But those guys may not even know about the online postings. They just will have heard that the guy can be a wild card. The EQ prez or Stake prez will ask them jokingly later if Bro what’s his name went off on a tangent again lol.

Nothing will ever really happen with this outside of getting barred from getting called as young mens president or bishop.

In very very rare cases there could be impacts to your business if you have one, or if your employment is tied to the church or a prominent church family/culture, but in general it is just a thing where you get flagged to be watched and observed and you won’t notice and it won’t really affect you. But it still goes on every Sunday.

I’m sure there is an electronic record someplace somewhere about it, although I have not seen that personally. Where it goes from there I don’t know but the record could be being passed on to various interested parties be they governments or agencies or groups.
Last edited by hyloglyph on October 21st, 2022, 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by EmmaLee »

tribrac wrote: October 20th, 2022, 6:53 pm They could ask the guy who runs the site to give the list.
Pretty sure Brian has more integrity than that. They'd have to sue him for it, which I wouldn't put past them to try. Conversely, there was a former moderator a year or two ago who used private, confidential information she had access to in that role, who tried to use it against me (being so full of hate as she is) - which is about as low-life and scumbag as you can get - so not everyone here is to be trusted, of course. But I've known Brian for almost 17 years now on LDSFF, and believe him to be a mature adult with integrity, and he would not betray anyone here by giving lists of names, etc. to the church or anyone else.

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by EmmaLee »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: October 20th, 2022, 9:21 pm
EmmaLee wrote: October 20th, 2022, 6:31 pm
FoxMammaWisdom wrote: October 20th, 2022, 4:07 pm What makes anyone think they are anonymous just because they don't use their real name?

How would the church get people's real names off of LDSFF, for example, unless the church hacks into this system (which wouldn't surprise me, tbh).
I was doxxed on Twitter one time for upsetting someone with my Joe Biden snark. They did it in 30 seconds - they had info about my life with my ex husband from 15 years ago and typed it right on Twitter. The only reason they told me they doxxed me was to scare me - if they never told me, they could have cruised around my computer and all my accounts all day without me knowing about it.

Church has powers/money/support/tech, etc., a stupid Twitter hacker jerk only wishes he had. And the church wants to run the world and keep eyes on their money bringers. No doubt they watch, and no doubt they hack whatever system they want to, beneath their level on the power structure.
I've never been too impressed with the Church's tech abilities, websites, etc. despite their vast funds and fortunes. They seem pretty bottom of the barrel, to be honest. With what they pay their tech employees, it's no surprise their tech sucks.

At any rate, it all goes back to not ever saying anything online that we wouldn't want attached to our real name and splashed on the front page of the paper (or whatever in today's parlance). Living life online is dangerous - there are crazies out there (and a couple on LDSFF, sadly) - it is a risk people take, I suppose, knowing full-well that everybody's info is easily obtained by anyone else, seeing how all our info is online these days. If people want any semblance of security, they need to get offline as much as possible.

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8240
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by creator »

EmmaLee wrote: October 21st, 2022, 12:41 pm
tribrac wrote: October 20th, 2022, 6:53 pm They could ask the guy who runs the site to give the list.
Pretty sure Brian has more integrity than that. They'd have to sue him for it, which I wouldn't put past them to try. ... I've known Brian for almost 17 years now on LDSFF, and believe him to be a mature adult with integrity, and he would not betray anyone here by giving lists of names, etc. to the church or anyone else.
I don't think they could even legally sue for that type of information, due to the various privacy laws and data-protection laws that exist.

The forum has been around since ~2005, such a scenario has never even come up.

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by EmmaLee »

creator wrote: October 21st, 2022, 2:09 pm
EmmaLee wrote: October 21st, 2022, 12:41 pm
tribrac wrote: October 20th, 2022, 6:53 pm They could ask the guy who runs the site to give the list.
Pretty sure Brian has more integrity than that. They'd have to sue him for it, which I wouldn't put past them to try. ... I've known Brian for almost 17 years now on LDSFF, and believe him to be a mature adult with integrity, and he would not betray anyone here by giving lists of names, etc. to the church or anyone else.
I don't think they could even legally sue for that type of information, due to the various privacy laws and data-protection laws that exist.

The forum has been around since ~2005, such a scenario has never even come up.

That's good; glad to hear it.

User avatar
gkearney
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5346

Re: Is the Church Spying on Us?

Post by gkearney »

Does this forum even ask for the real name of the users, and even if it did how would any know if someone used their real name or not?

Post Reply