Modern Day Apostles & Prophets viewing Christ

[LDS Watchman]

Obviously you hold Joseph and every other church leader to different standards.

No, I don't. I've said this repeatedly.

Actions speak louder than words.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Obviously you hold Joseph and every other church leader to different standards.

No, I don't. I've said this repeatedly.

Actions speak louder than words.

Get off your high horse. Posts like this back/forth are why I often hide your comments.

[briznian]

… i have been blessed with the very spiritual experience this thread is about and it happened only because of my diligence to keeping my covenants, and being active in the church and doing as asked and serving in the church. The church is the means by which the lord redeems and guides his children home.

At the opening of the New Testament Anna and Simeon were diligent in keeping all of the commandments and the law as they understood them. Because of that they were blessed with seeing the infant Savior. However, that did NOT mean that their church as it was constituted in their was true. In fact it was destined to be replaced despite their diligence.

And yet around that same time john the baptist father had his experience and an angel apperared in the temple as was the custom. Many also doubtless had experiences too, between you and me we listed 2.

Why did the savior continue to do as his religion expected of him throughout his life, giving sacrifice, going to the temple, teaching, learning, starting his ministry at age 30 as required?

Whether the church was or was not perfect, doesnt matter to the individual. We are still commanded to go to church, keep our covenants and serve as did the savior. Whether those people are righteous or not, we must do what we know is right just as you said. What a truly perfect example he gave.

If simeon and ana did as many on thise site and leave the church, and point fingers they would have lost their reward to see the christ and the ultimate reward of spending eternity with him no matter how right they think they are or how righteous.

One of the mistakes I see people make time after time is that their spiritual experiences mean more than they do. I recall a young returned sister missionary declare a fabulous testimony over the pulpit a few years back. She said she was praying fervently when she was overcome by the spirit and felt God's love for her. She concluded from that event that "the church was true". In actuality the only things that can be concluded from that experience of hers is that there is a God and that He loved her.

You are making the same mistake about the church, unless there is more to your story that you are not sharing.

[Shawn Henry]

I honestly don’t care what they saw, they teach truths and falsehoods from the same pulpit. And they most certainly don’t teach us today to receive the Second Anointing.

This is the post I left my computer at yesterday and I hit refresh this morning and your post count went from 7106 to 7135. You've been busy my friend, lol.

I think the JS issue is easy. Before the saints were guilty of rejecting Zion and the Lord, the Lord gave purity to the prophet. 1829-1834 is completely solid. After rejecting Zion and the Lord removing his name from the church reflect the transition to the Lord closing the eyes of the Seers. Joseph began receiving revelation for an apostate people who belonged to a church Christ wouldn't claim as his own. The people in both cases received the leadership they deserved.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I honestly don’t care what they saw, they teach truths and falsehoods from the same pulpit. And they most certainly don’t teach us today to receive the Second Anointing.

This is the post I left my computer at yesterday and I hit refresh this morning and your post count went from 7106 to 7135. You've been busy my friend, lol.

I think the JS issue is easy. Before the saints were guilty of rejecting Zion and the Lord, the Lord gave purity to the prophet. 1829-1834 is completely solid. After rejecting Zion and the Lord removing his name from the church reflect the transition to the Lord closing the eyes of the Seers. Joseph began receiving revelation for an apostate people who belonged to a church Christ wouldn't claim as his own. The people in both cases received the leadership they deserved.

Certainly worth considering. I've always found it interesting that people will quote D&C 1:38, and how the Lord speaks through prophets (my voice, servants' voice yada yada), but then don't realize that section 84 came after that. Somehow this idea was engrained into their psyche that the church will never fail.

In my own personal studies, I am taking a much closer look at the Second Anointing. There are quite a few resources out there. And it should be quite apparent that Joseph taught it, the scriptures teach it, and modern PSRs do not, they even discourage it. The simple fact that they allude to these experiences should be alarming.

Oh, and yeah, I had a little downtime last night.

[Shawn Henry]

But, I'm not exactly sure what your point is?

What I took out of his point was this. The church received a new precedent from a senior Apostle bypassing the President.

So, two separate things we would have to address. 1. The Lord is clear that the First Presidency alone receives the revelations for the church. That's the Lord's standard and precedent. The 12 do not receive revelations for the church, nor does Hyrum Page. 2. Why would the Lord undercut his prophet and not go through him? With that precedent set, the Lord could give you or me a revelation for the whole church.

[LDS Watchman]

Obviously you hold Joseph and every other church leader to different standards.

No, I don't. I've said this repeatedly.

Actions speak louder than words.

Get off your high horse. Posts like this back/forth are why I often hide your comments.

I'm not on a high horse. Just pointing out your inconsistent behavior so you can hopefully reflect on your current belief system and make some adjustments to be more consistent. That's all. Take that for what it's worth.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Just pointing out your inconsistent behavior...

[Fred]

Having been here off and on for over a decade, the place has changed drastically, and not for the better. Personally I like the way our church has handled discussion of heavenly communions. They don't punish people for discussing it but also they do not bring it up lightly. I have my own spiritual witnesses and do not need to piggyback off prophets personal experiences that do not pertain to our job in the Kingdom. This is how anyone with sacred experiences naturally feels. To share them feels like setting up a webcam in your home and letting strangers into your sacred home. I myself have felt close to receiving a personal manifestation several times but each time felt I was not yet ready. I greatly look forward to that event and already consider it among the most precious moments of my life.

Judas was an apostle who walked and talked and kissed the savior. All previous iterations of the Kingdom collapsed into apostasy. First slowly and then all at once. Sane members accept that Prophets are people and matters of the kingdom can get messy. Church office building is not our salvation. And even apostles can go bad. We should hold to the gospel and not get to caught up in the personality or background of each prophet. Studying church history i always found it odd how those who knew Joseph Smith would go from his zealous supporter to zealous enemy and sometimes back often over seemingly small personal matters. This forum has been very enlightening to me as to how the human ego interferes and makes such drama inevitable. Don't get me wrong, I am not immune to ego drama at work, but as there should be zero money or status involved, I am in a different mindset at church. Apparently this simple lesson I learned from my parents is not commonly learned. Thanks Dad!

Must of us have found a content spot, between the extremes of "these prophets are evil imposters" and "every word a prophet speaks or tweets is now Gospel truth." Crazies' are always attracted to religion and like in any organization they are the loudest. The internet makes this a bit harder, I guarantee if you saw the home and a current picture of most of these people here your brain would properly notice a large number of red flags of mental illness that are not so clearly conveyed through snippets of text.

There are a few powerful undercurrents I have noticed. First, the age old truth, of "they can leave the church but they cant leave it alone" applies. This among other church adjacent forums, has clearly been targeted by those from places like the reddit exmormon thread. They are here to coerce you into agreeing with them or at least drive wedges. Evil or feelings of betrayal spur them on with a zeal they never had as members. Remember to see through their words. For example, they are just as happy to drive you from the church for the prophet being too culturally left wing or not being left wing enough. In a single comment this pattern can be too subtle to notice but pay attention and you will see.

A little left wing is like a little raw sewage in your milk. Even a drop is too much.

[Chris]

… i have been blessed with the very spiritual experience this thread is about and it happened only because of my diligence to keeping my covenants, and being active in the church and doing as asked and serving in the church. The church is the means by which the lord redeems and guides his children home.

At the opening of the New Testament Anna and Simeon were diligent in keeping all of the commandments and the law as they understood them. Because of that they were blessed with seeing the infant Savior. However, that did NOT mean that their church as it was constituted in their was true. In fact it was destined to be replaced despite their diligence.

And yet around that same time john the baptist father had his experience and an angel apperared in the temple as was the custom. Many also doubtless had experiences too, between you and me we listed 2.

Why did the savior continue to do as his religion expected of him throughout his life, giving sacrifice, going to the temple, teaching, learning, starting his ministry at age 30 as required?

Whether the church was or was not perfect, doesnt matter to the individual. We are still commanded to go to church, keep our covenants and serve as did the savior. Whether those people are righteous or not, we must do what we know is right just as you said. What a truly perfect example he gave.

If simeon and ana did as many on thise site and leave the church, and point fingers they would have lost their reward to see the christ and the ultimate reward of spending eternity with him no matter how right they think they are or how righteous.

One of the mistakes I see people make time after time is that their spiritual experiences mean more than they do. I recall a young returned sister missionary declare a fabulous testimony over the pulpit a few years back. She said she was praying fervently when she was overcome by the spirit and felt God's love for her. She concluded from that event that "the church was true". In actuality the only things that can be concluded from that experience of hers is that there is a God and that He loved her.

You are making the same mistake about the church, unless there is more to your story that you are not sharing.

Except for the fact without the church of Christ we are nothing. Did the people on this site not learning anything from Joseph Smith who they claim to still be a prophet and who brought forth the BOM. Why did Joseph go to the grove to pray? What Did the Savior tell him his mission was? To bring forth the TRUE church of Christ. He did so too!!!

IF the necessary church was not restored ( which it was ) where would be ? Right out there with everyone else confusion and craziness like this site right

A study of the Bible and BOM makes it clear, God wants a church for his people and he has prophets for his people. To say the opposite is just crazy in every way goes against everything in Bible and BOM & D&C etc.

Joseph Smith taught no one can be saved unless they do what----

The articles of faith right-

Faith
Repentance
Baptism
Gift of Holy Ghost
Temple Ordinances
Sealing

All of this requires Priesthood all of this requires action. All of this requires the true church of Christ and Jacobs ladder.

The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven, and for some reason yall dont seem to want to go?? Dont know why

[LDS Watchman]

Just pointing out your inconsistent behavior...

You can choose to be offended or you can do some self reflection and see if there's truth to what I said.

It's up to you man.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You can choose to be offended or you can do some self reflection and see if there's truth to what I said.

How about we stop jacking w/ the thread? Here's what I propose, you go ahead and start a thread where you focus on why you think I've contradicted my thinking on the prophet Joseph... or whatever you want to call your opinion. Maybe that will make you feel better.

[Chris]

I honestly don’t care what they saw, they teach truths and falsehoods from the same pulpit. And they most certainly don’t teach us today to receive the Second Anointing.

This is the post I left my computer at yesterday and I hit refresh this morning and your post count went from 7106 to 7135. You've been busy my friend, lol.

I think the JS issue is easy. Before the saints were guilty of rejecting Zion and the Lord, the Lord gave purity to the prophet. 1829-1834 is completely solid. After rejecting Zion and the Lord removing his name from the church reflect the transition to the Lord closing the eyes of the Seers. Joseph began receiving revelation for an apostate people who belonged to a church Christ wouldn't claim as his own. The people in both cases received the leadership they deserved.

You always seem to think this is some grand truth you keep talking about but it is not. So you think sometime between 1829-1834 the church was in apostacy. If that is the case Why did the Lord even establish the church in 1830????? Why? what is the point?

If what you believe is true Joseph sucked as a prophet and for that matter the Lord sure screwed up in establishing his church in the later days. why in the hell would anything be done if church sucked before it was established and church was so bad the lord removed his name from it 4 years after it was established if your latest date is correct. Why wouldn't the lord scrap it all and start over immediately.

Or lets look at it from a more logical conclusion. The Lord knew what he was doing and Joseph didn't suck as a prophet and it was everything he said it was. The little stone Daniel saw cut without hands rolling forth to fill the world, and Joseph really did as he said and established a kingdom never to be taken away or given to another people...... You know maybe we can look at all the scriptures when we come to our conclusions and not at a little piece of a verse and attach a psychotic conspiracy to it that defies all logic because it fits with an apostate view point that yall are trying so hard to think is correct. I feel for you, and all these people coming up with all of this nonsense. I cant wrap my brain around how anyone buys this stuff.

The only logical conclusion is it is all real and true or it is all false.

[Mamabear]

At the opening of the New Testament Anna and Simeon were diligent in keeping all of the commandments and the law as they understood them. Because of that they were blessed with seeing the infant Savior. However, that did NOT mean that their church as it was constituted in their was true. In fact it was destined to be replaced despite their diligence.

And yet around that same time john the baptist father had his experience and an angel apperared in the temple as was the custom. Many also doubtless had experiences too, between you and me we listed 2.

Why did the savior continue to do as his religion expected of him throughout his life, giving sacrifice, going to the temple, teaching, learning, starting his ministry at age 30 as required?

Whether the church was or was not perfect, doesnt matter to the individual. We are still commanded to go to church, keep our covenants and serve as did the savior. Whether those people are righteous or not, we must do what we know is right just as you said. What a truly perfect example he gave.

If simeon and ana did as many on thise site and leave the church, and point fingers they would have lost their reward to see the christ and the ultimate reward of spending eternity with him no matter how right they think they are or how righteous.

One of the mistakes I see people make time after time is that their spiritual experiences mean more than they do. I recall a young returned sister missionary declare a fabulous testimony over the pulpit a few years back. She said she was praying fervently when she was overcome by the spirit and felt God's love for her. She concluded from that event that "the church was true". In actuality the only things that can be concluded from that experience of hers is that there is a God and that He loved her.

You are making the same mistake about the church, unless there is more to your story that you are not sharing.

Except for the fact without the church of Christ we are nothing. Did the people on this site not learning anything from Joseph Smith who they claim to still be a prophet and who brought forth the BOM. Why did Joseph go to the grove to pray? What Did the Savior tell him his mission was? To bring forth the TRUE church of Christ. He did so too!!!

IF the necessary church was not restored ( which it was ) where would be ? Right out there with everyone else confusion and craziness like this site right

A study of the Bible and BOM makes it clear, God wants a church for his people and he has prophets for his people. To say the opposite is just crazy in every way goes against everything in Bible and BOM & D&C etc.

Joseph Smith taught no one can be saved unless they do what----

The articles of faith right-

Faith
Repentance
Baptism
Gift of Holy Ghost
Temple Ordinances
Sealing

All of this requires Priesthood all of this requires action. All of this requires the true church of Christ and Jacobs ladder.

The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven, and for some reason yall dont seem to want to go?? Dont know why

Jesus taught no one can enter heaven unless they come to Him and are born again. He never mentioned temple ordinances or sealings.

“The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven“
Coming to Christ is the only way to heaven.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I honestly don’t care what they saw, they teach truths and falsehoods from the same pulpit. And they most certainly don’t teach us today to receive the Second Anointing.

This is the post I left my computer at yesterday and I hit refresh this morning and your post count went from 7106 to 7135. You've been busy my friend, lol.

I think the JS issue is easy. Before the saints were guilty of rejecting Zion and the Lord, the Lord gave purity to the prophet. 1829-1834 is completely solid. After rejecting Zion and the Lord removing his name from the church reflect the transition to the Lord closing the eyes of the Seers. Joseph began receiving revelation for an apostate people who belonged to a church Christ wouldn't claim as his own. The people in both cases received the leadership they deserved.

You always seem to think this is some grand truth you keep talking about but it is not. So you think sometime between 1829-1834 the church was in apostacy. If that is the case Why did the Lord even establish the church in 1830????? Why? what is the point?

If what you believe is true Joseph sucked as a prophet and for that matter the Lord sure screwed up in establishing his church in the later days. why in the hell would anything be done if church sucked before it was established and church was so bad the lord removed his name from it 4 years after it was established if your latest date is correct. Why wouldn't the lord scrap it all and start over immediately.

Or lets look at it from a more logical conclusion. The Lord knew what he was doing and Joseph didn't suck as a prophet and it was everything he said it was. The little stone Daniel saw cut without hands rolling forth to fill the world, and Joseph really did as he said and established a kingdom never to be taken away or given to another people...... You know maybe we can look at all the scriptures when we come to our conclusions and not at a little piece of a verse and attach a psychotic conspiracy to it that defies all logic because it fits with an apostate view point that yall are trying so hard to think is correct. I feel for you, and all these people coming up with all of this nonsense. I cant wrap my brain around how anyone buys this stuff.

The only logical conclusion is it is all real and true or it is all false.

You've just brushed over centuries of prophecies in what you just elaborated on. Just think about why several BoM prophets call out later-day churches for their pride. How arrogant would it be to think the Lord would never allow an organization to fall into apostasy? I'd suggest a careful study of 3 Nephi 21-26. The Lord has plans that may not include the LDS church. Just sayin.

[LDS Watchman]

You can choose to be offended or you can do some self reflection and see if there's truth to what I said.

How about we stop jacking w/ the thread? Here's what I propose, you go ahead and start a thread where you focus on why you think I've contradicted my thinking on the prophet Joseph... or whatever you want to call your opinion. Maybe that will make you feel better.

I don't think that's worth an entire thread. I've made my point. Let's move on.

[Chris]

And yet around that same time john the baptist father had his experience and an angel apperared in the temple as was the custom. Many also doubtless had experiences too, between you and me we listed 2.

Why did the savior continue to do as his religion expected of him throughout his life, giving sacrifice, going to the temple, teaching, learning, starting his ministry at age 30 as required?

Whether the church was or was not perfect, doesnt matter to the individual. We are still commanded to go to church, keep our covenants and serve as did the savior. Whether those people are righteous or not, we must do what we know is right just as you said. What a truly perfect example he gave.

If simeon and ana did as many on thise site and leave the church, and point fingers they would have lost their reward to see the christ and the ultimate reward of spending eternity with him no matter how right they think they are or how righteous.

One of the mistakes I see people make time after time is that their spiritual experiences mean more than they do. I recall a young returned sister missionary declare a fabulous testimony over the pulpit a few years back. She said she was praying fervently when she was overcome by the spirit and felt God's love for her. She concluded from that event that "the church was true". In actuality the only things that can be concluded from that experience of hers is that there is a God and that He loved her.

You are making the same mistake about the church, unless there is more to your story that you are not sharing.

Except for the fact without the church of Christ we are nothing. Did the people on this site not learning anything from Joseph Smith who they claim to still be a prophet and who brought forth the BOM. Why did Joseph go to the grove to pray? What Did the Savior tell him his mission was? To bring forth the TRUE church of Christ. He did so too!!!

IF the necessary church was not restored ( which it was ) where would be ? Right out there with everyone else confusion and craziness like this site right

A study of the Bible and BOM makes it clear, God wants a church for his people and he has prophets for his people. To say the opposite is just crazy in every way goes against everything in Bible and BOM & D&C etc.

Joseph Smith taught no one can be saved unless they do what----

The articles of faith right-

Faith
Repentance
Baptism
Gift of Holy Ghost
Temple Ordinances
Sealing

All of this requires Priesthood all of this requires action. All of this requires the true church of Christ and Jacobs ladder.

The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven, and for some reason yall dont seem to want to go?? Dont know why

Jesus taught no one can enter heaven unless they come to Him and are born again. He never mentioned temple ordinances or sealings.

“The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven“
Coming to Christ is the only way to heaven.

Wrong
2 Nephi 9: 23- 25
23 And he commandeth all men that they must repent, and be baptized in his name, having perfect cfaith in the Holy One of Israel, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.

24 And if they will not repent and believe in his aname, and be baptized in his name, and bendure to the end, they must be cdamned; for the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, has spoken it.

25 Wherefore, he has given a alaw; and where there is bno claw given there is no dpunishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.

There are several other scriptures i can give but this one is pretty clear.

How are people baptized for the dead that Paul talked about?

Why did the Lord have Alters from the time of ADAM, up until NOW if they are not necessary?

Seriously WHY? Why did Joseph build temples just because they look pretty?

Why did every righteous prophet strive to have temples? Why is the Lord going to build New Jerusalem Temple and also build new temple in Jerusalem if there is no purpose. To say temple ordinances are not necessary for salvation and like trying to claim you don't need oxygen to breathe.

Sorry you cant just claim i love god and he loves me so all will be well, when you willfully refuse his commandments and that is what you do when you claim that his plan and his ordinances are not important or a part of salvation. You have to outright refuse and ignore the revealed word of god from adam to now.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I don't think that's worth an entire thread. I've made my point. Let's move on.

Hey, if you make a ridiculous/slanderous claim, you should stand by your words.

[Mamabear]

One of the mistakes I see people make time after time is that their spiritual experiences mean more than they do. I recall a young returned sister missionary declare a fabulous testimony over the pulpit a few years back. She said she was praying fervently when she was overcome by the spirit and felt God's love for her. She concluded from that event that "the church was true". In actuality the only things that can be concluded from that experience of hers is that there is a God and that He loved her.

You are making the same mistake about the church, unless there is more to your story that you are not sharing.

Except for the fact without the church of Christ we are nothing. Did the people on this site not learning anything from Joseph Smith who they claim to still be a prophet and who brought forth the BOM. Why did Joseph go to the grove to pray? What Did the Savior tell him his mission was? To bring forth the TRUE church of Christ. He did so too!!!

IF the necessary church was not restored ( which it was ) where would be ? Right out there with everyone else confusion and craziness like this site right

A study of the Bible and BOM makes it clear, God wants a church for his people and he has prophets for his people. To say the opposite is just crazy in every way goes against everything in Bible and BOM & D&C etc.

Joseph Smith taught no one can be saved unless they do what----

The articles of faith right-

Faith
Repentance
Baptism
Gift of Holy Ghost
Temple Ordinances
Sealing

All of this requires Priesthood all of this requires action. All of this requires the true church of Christ and Jacobs ladder.

The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven, and for some reason yall dont seem to want to go?? Dont know why

Jesus taught no one can enter heaven unless they come to Him and are born again. He never mentioned temple ordinances or sealings.

“The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven“
Coming to Christ is the only way to heaven.

Wrong
2 Nephi 9: 23- 25
23 And he commandeth all men that they must repent, and be baptized in his name, having perfect cfaith in the Holy One of Israel, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.

24 And if they will not repent and believe in his aname, and be baptized in his name, and bendure to the end, they must be cdamned; for the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, has spoken it.

25 Wherefore, he has given a alaw; and where there is bno claw given there is no dpunishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.

There are several other scriptures i can give but this one is pretty clear.

How are people baptized for the dead that Paul talked about?

Why did the Lord have Alters from the time of ADAM, up until NOW if they are not necessary?

Seriously WHY? Why did Joseph build temples just because they look pretty?

Why did every righteous prophet strive to have temples? Why is the Lord going to build New Jerusalem Temple and also build new temple in Jerusalem if there is no purpose. To say temple ordinances are not necessary for salvation and like trying to claim you don't need oxygen to breathe.

Sorry you cant just claim i love god and he loves me so all will be well, when you willfully refuse his commandments and that is what you do when you claim that his plan and his ordinances are not important or a part of salvation. You have to outright refuse and ignore the revealed word of god from adam to now.

Your scriptures support what I said. They mention no temple ordinances or sealings at all.
If our Lord Jesus Christ was married it was irrelevant because He did not speak of it.
The only sealing ever spoken of throughout the Bible and bom is being sealed to God. Not man. It is a topic that I have studied for several months.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Your scriptures support what I said. They mention no temple ordinances or sealings at all.
If our Lord Jesus Christ was married it was irrelevant because He did not speak of it.
The only sealing ever spoken of throughout the Bible and bom is being sealed to God. Not man. It is a topic that I have studied for several months.

I don't always agree w/ Chris, but I do believe there is something to temple worship and sealings. I do not agree with how the LDS church does it (they have strayed), but the apocryphal writings in the Nemenhah Record are filled with temple worship, ordinances, endowments, and monogamous sealings. These being taught to the people directly by Christ.

[ransomme]

At the opening of the New Testament Anna and Simeon were diligent in keeping all of the commandments and the law as they understood them. Because of that they were blessed with seeing the infant Savior. However, that did NOT mean that their church as it was constituted in their was true. In fact it was destined to be replaced despite their diligence.

And yet around that same time john the baptist father had his experience and an angel apperared in the temple as was the custom. Many also doubtless had experiences too, between you and me we listed 2.

Why did the savior continue to do as his religion expected of him throughout his life, giving sacrifice, going to the temple, teaching, learning, starting his ministry at age 30 as required?

Whether the church was or was not perfect, doesnt matter to the individual. We are still commanded to go to church, keep our covenants and serve as did the savior. Whether those people are righteous or not, we must do what we know is right just as you said. What a truly perfect example he gave.

If simeon and ana did as many on thise site and leave the church, and point fingers they would have lost their reward to see the christ and the ultimate reward of spending eternity with him no matter how right they think they are or how righteous.

One of the mistakes I see people make time after time is that their spiritual experiences mean more than they do. I recall a young returned sister missionary declare a fabulous testimony over the pulpit a few years back. She said she was praying fervently when she was overcome by the spirit and felt God's love for her. She concluded from that event that "the church was true". In actuality the only things that can be concluded from that experience of hers is that there is a God and that He loved her.

You are making the same mistake about the church, unless there is more to your story that you are not sharing.

Except for the fact without the church of Christ we are nothing. Did the people on this site not learning anything from Joseph Smith who they claim to still be a prophet and who brought forth the BOM. Why did Joseph go to the grove to pray? What Did the Savior tell him his mission was? To bring forth the TRUE church of Christ. He did so too!!!

IF the necessary church was not restored ( which it was ) where would be ? Right out there with everyone else confusion and craziness like this site right

A study of the Bible and BOM makes it clear, God wants a church for his people and he has prophets for his people. To say the opposite is just crazy in every way goes against everything in Bible and BOM & D&C etc.

Joseph Smith taught no one can be saved unless they do what----

The articles of faith right-

Faith
Repentance
Baptism
Gift of Holy Ghost
Temple Ordinances
Sealing

All of this requires Priesthood all of this requires action. All of this requires the true church of Christ and Jacobs ladder.

The church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is the only way to heaven, and for some reason yall dont seem to want to go?? Dont know why

You added something that is not there in what you referenced:
Article 3
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Article 4 defined the ordinances mentioned in article 3:
We believe that these ordinances are: 1st [first], Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; 2d [second], Repentance; 3d [third], Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; 4th [fourth], Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I wonder what else you are not getting quite right?

I'll say this, the CoJCoLDS is not the only way to heaven, Christ is. He is the Way

The temple endowment is meant to teach us the pattern so that we may know the way. Those with ears to hear and eyes to see will understand.

As far as temple work, I wonder if people view it today in a manner similar to the way Jews viewed the law? The power to save was not in the law, nor is it in the temple ordinances. The power to save is only in Christ.

Good is love and is merciful.

[Reluctant Watchman]

As far as temple work, I wonder if people view it today in a manner similar to the way Jews viewed the law? The power to save was not in the law, nor is it in the temple ordinances. The power to save is only in Christ.

The temple endowment was supposed to be just that, an endowment of power. True laws and ordinances should be taught there. Just think how powerful it would be if an entire society was truly consecrated, where there were no poor among them. In those very laws, we should be taught in great depth about Christ's gospel. We should expound upon the law of sacrifice. We should go intro great depth on the significance of virtue.

By living by higher laws, a society both collectively and individually will pierce the veil and receive its Second Anointing.

[Mamabear]

Here is what some of the pre 1990 temple endowment contained. This doesn’t seem inspired by Christ to me.

“The execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side.”
​
“We, and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this, the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, or penalty. Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by our roots.
We agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field.
Should we do so, we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out.”

In fact it’s very similar to the Masonic rituals:

Made from the due-guard by dropping the left hand carelessly; at the same time raise the right arm and draw the hand, still open, across the throat, thumb next to the throat, and drop the hand perpendicular by the side.”
​
“Binding myself under no less penalty than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the roots.”
“Having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked out, and given to the wild beasts of the field and the fowls of the air.
To have my body cut in two, my bowels removed and burned to ashes which are then to be scattered to the four winds of heaven.”

[Reluctant Watchman]

There's all kinds of jacked-up stuff in that pre-90's endowment.

Does anybody have access to any relevant material as to what Joseph actually taught in the temple?

[EmmaLee]

Does anybody have access to any relevant material as to what Joseph actually taught in the temple?

I would be very interested in that, as well.