Modern Day Apostles & Prophets viewing Christ

[Reluctant Watchman]

Does teaching false doctrine constitute a false prophet?

Such as what exactly

That they can “never lead us astray.” Or how about when Nelson taught the saints that members can place their “complete trust” in the Q15?

The scriptures are clear that these are false doctrines.

Show me where in the scriptures it says that. There are no scriptures that say that.

There is a joseph smith qoute that says that very thing. "ALWAYS go with the majority 12, it is a key that will never rust,...."

D&C 138 :44 also

I’m trying to understand your question. Do you want to know what scriptures teach that prophets can lead us astray, that they can transgress? Or are you asking about the part where we should never place our trust in the arm of flesh unless the Spirit dictates?

Please read JST Mark 9. Who is the “eye” in this parable from Christ?

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Definition of transgress
intransitive verb
1 : to violate a command or law : SIN
2 : to go beyond a boundary or limit
transitive verb
1 : to go beyond limits set or prescribed by : VIOLATE
transgress divine law
2 : to pass beyond or go over (a limit or boundary)

[Chris]

Such as what exactly

That they can “never lead us astray.” Or how about when Nelson taught the saints that members can place their “complete trust” in the Q15?

The scriptures are clear that these are false doctrines.

Show me where in the scriptures it says that. There are no scriptures that say that.

There is a joseph smith qoute that says that very thing. "ALWAYS go with the majority 12, it is a key that will never rust,...."

D&C 138 :44 also

I’m trying to understand your question. Do you want to know what scriptures teach that prophets can lead us astray, that they can transgress? Or are you asking about the part where we should never place our trust in the arm of flesh unless the Spirit dictates?

Please read JST Mark 9. Who is the “eye” in this parable from Christ?

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.

The eye does not talk about the prophet, the next verse proves it. You are stretching and twisting again.

Surely you can do better than that. Show me where it says what they are saying is not scriptural.....

[Reluctant Watchman]

That they can “never lead us astray.” Or how about when Nelson taught the saints that members can place their “complete trust” in the Q15?

The scriptures are clear that these are false doctrines.

Show me where in the scriptures it says that. There are no scriptures that say that.

There is a joseph smith qoute that says that very thing. "ALWAYS go with the majority 12, it is a key that will never rust,...."

D&C 138 :44 also

I’m trying to understand your question. Do you want to know what scriptures teach that prophets can lead us astray, that they can transgress? Or are you asking about the part where we should never place our trust in the arm of flesh unless the Spirit dictates?

Please read JST Mark 9. Who is the “eye” in this parable from Christ?

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.

The eye does not talk about the prophet, the next verse proves it. You are stretching and twisting again.

Surely you can do better than that. Show me where it says what they are saying is not scriptural.....

I’m sorry, but this is obvious. Who is the “eye”? You couldn’t get a more clear depiction of a “seer”. Read this in full context. The Lord taught about both the hand, foot, and eye. He covered nearly every societal structure. Especially religion.

And how does the following verse give us any indication he isn’t speaking about a prophet?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Chris, you also didn’t answer my earlier question about the Law of the Gospel. Did you know what you were covenanting to do when you went through for the first time?

[Chris]

Chris, you also didn’t answer my earlier question about the Law of the Gospel. Did you know what you were covenanting to do when you went through for the first time?

Its left to interpretation, but my guess would be the two great laws. Loving god and neighbor.....

But that isnt the only "law" you covenant to make, dont forget "obedience" "sacrifice""consecration" etc. Etc.

So you cant cherry pick one, and ignore the others

You cant abandon the church of christ, temple ordinances and sacred covenants and forsake everything and claim to be in gods good graces. Even if the prophet has fallen which he hasnt, god still has claim on this church and no one is justified in breaking their covenants because of someone elses actions.

I put there revelation of god telling them to leave the church, with a guy i know who said the lord told him joseph made it all up. The other guy i know who claimed god told him to leave his wife and cheat with another lady. Its called justification and then you try to lie to your self by rubber stamping it with gods approval, even though he did no such thing.

God is same yesterday, today and forever. He doesnt give different answers to different people about the same truth....

[Chris]

Show me where in the scriptures it says that. There are no scriptures that say that.

There is a joseph smith qoute that says that very thing. "ALWAYS go with the majority 12, it is a key that will never rust,...."

D&C 138 :44 also

I’m trying to understand your question. Do you want to know what scriptures teach that prophets can lead us astray, that they can transgress? Or are you asking about the part where we should never place our trust in the arm of flesh unless the Spirit dictates?

Please read JST Mark 9. Who is the “eye” in this parable from Christ?

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.

The eye does not talk about the prophet, the next verse proves it. You are stretching and twisting again.

Surely you can do better than that. Show me where it says what they are saying is not scriptural.....

I’m sorry, but this is obvious. Who is the “eye”? You couldn’t get a more clear depiction of a “seer”. Read this in full context. The Lord taught about both the hand, foot, and eye. He covered nearly every societal structure. Especially religion.

And how does the following verse give us any indication he isn’t speaking about a prophet?

The lord gives what the eye is in the next verse, you are seeing things that arent there, perhaps you should pluck out that eye

[Reluctant Watchman]

Chris, you also didn’t answer my earlier question about the Law of the Gospel. Did you know what you were covenanting to do when you went through for the first time?

Its left to interpretation, but my guess would be the two great laws. Loving god and neighbor.....

No, no it's not. Even to this day you "guess" you know what it is. A covenant cannot be made in ignorance.

Tell me, do you honestly believe the church lives the law of consecration, specifically as Joseph attempted to live it? Why don't we teach this today? Again, refer to Isaiah 56.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The lord gives what the eye is in the next verse, you are seeing things that arent there, perhaps you should pluck out that eye

Chris, this is the next verse: "47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." How in the world do you find the interpretation of the "eye" in this verse?

The Lord literally gives the interpretation in the same verse: 46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.

You can't be this obtuse, please tell me you aren't this much of an apologist for the church.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Oh, and yes, I'll gladly follow the admonition of the Lord and "pluck" THEM out.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You couldn't have a more clear depiction of the churches in OUR day, with specific fingers pointing squarely at the LDS/Gentile church. Pease wake up saints: Mormon 8

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

[Chris]

You couldn't have a more clear depiction of the churches in OUR day, with specific fingers pointing squarely at the LDS/Gentile church. Pease wake up saints: Mormon 8

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

Ill partially agree with you here. I am not saying members of the church are not under condemnation as well as the gentile nation. I fully believe in the parable of the 10 virgins and it relating to the church. I just dont think the Church and leadership are under condemnation as a whole. You are trying to throw the baby out with the bath water..... The church as a whole is not under condemnation, nor are the leadership. Again there are many in the church that are. But the Lord cant and wont abandon the church. Revelations Chapter 12 the whole thing is on the WOMAN being the CHURCH and the child being ZION, when did this sign happen 2017...... The war in heaven is repeating now on the earth as it says further down in that chapter. Sadly many are abandoning there only source of hope. Why because of a vaccine? Give me a break...... I can just see people running around after judgement talking about what got them into Hell like people talk about what got them into prison. What got you to abandon the right way and what was your slippery slope that brought you down here. Well I didnt like a letter the prophet wrote, forget the guy who left the church because Joseph spelled his name wrong and the apostle who left over cream....

Also give me the definition that you view is the correct one for Law of the gospel-

Thanks

[Reluctant Watchman]

Ill partially agree with you here. I am not saying members of the church are not under condemnation as well as the gentile nation. I fully believe in the parable of the 10 virgins and it relating to the church. I just dont think the Church and leadership are under condemnation as a whole. You are trying to throw the baby out with the bath water..... The church as a whole is not under condemnation, nor are the leadership. Again there are many in the church that are. But the Lord cant and wont abandon the church. Revelations Chapter 12 the whole thing is on the WOMAN being the CHURCH and the child being ZION, when did this sign happen 2017...... The war in heaven is repeating now on the earth as it says further down in that chapter. Sadly many are abandoning there only source of hope. Why because of a vaccine? Give me a break...... I can just see people running around after judgement talking about what got them into Hell like people talk about what got them into prison. What got you to abandon the right way and what was your slippery slope that brought you down here. Well I didnt like a letter the prophet wrote, forget the guy who left the church because Joseph spelled his name wrong and the apostle who left over cream....

Also give me the definition that you view is the correct one for Law of the gospel-

Thanks

1. Just look at the "I'm a mormon" campaign in relation to those verses. "Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ?" I could use this same condemnation with the failure to live and teach the law of consecration.

2. Just read a little further up in the verses. Who is this condemnation directed towards? "37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, ..." Like, come on, you couldn't get a better description of a trillion-dollar mega church with $130B slush fund that throws "fine actuaries" around like monopoly pieces.

3. And no, I'm not "throwing out the baby w/ the bath water." By "plucking out" the transgressors, I am preserving my faith in Christ. I told my new EQ president two weeks ago. "I left the church because the church left Jesus." Maybe you need a reminder:

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.

47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.

Nelson literally told the saints we can place our "complete trust" in these 15 men, a direct contradiction of Christ's words. Nelson promoted an anti-Christian philosophy.

[Mamabear]

I can tell by the way leaders act that they are off course. They tell the members how to live every detail of their lives while saying follow the Holy Ghost. Jesus made it clear we cannot follow God and mammon.
The leaders do not believe we are capable of thinking and acting for ourselves.
Example: they urged us to get vaxxxed. They wouldn’t have said that if they had faith each individual would make a choice appropriate for their life and body.
Example: follow the Holy Ghost…..
But here’s a handbook. Read and follow it please. There’s even a section on how vaxxes are good!
The stake president in our area told the members to read the handbook often. It seems it’s the new scriptures.
People led by the Spirit do not need commanding in all things.

[Chris]

Ill partially agree with you here. I am not saying members of the church are not under condemnation as well as the gentile nation. I fully believe in the parable of the 10 virgins and it relating to the church. I just dont think the Church and leadership are under condemnation as a whole. You are trying to throw the baby out with the bath water..... The church as a whole is not under condemnation, nor are the leadership. Again there are many in the church that are. But the Lord cant and wont abandon the church. Revelations Chapter 12 the whole thing is on the WOMAN being the CHURCH and the child being ZION, when did this sign happen 2017...... The war in heaven is repeating now on the earth as it says further down in that chapter. Sadly many are abandoning there only source of hope. Why because of a vaccine? Give me a break...... I can just see people running around after judgement talking about what got them into Hell like people talk about what got them into prison. What got you to abandon the right way and what was your slippery slope that brought you down here. Well I didnt like a letter the prophet wrote, forget the guy who left the church because Joseph spelled his name wrong and the apostle who left over cream....

Also give me the definition that you view is the correct one for Law of the gospel-

Thanks

1. Just look at the "I'm a mormon" campaign in relation to those verses. "Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ?" I could use this same condemnation with the failure to live and teach the law of consecration.

2. Just read a little further up in the verses. Who is this condemnation directed towards? "37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, ..." Like, come on, you couldn't get a better description of a trillion-dollar mega church with $130B slush fund that throws "fine actuaries" around like monopoly pieces.

3. And no, I'm not "throwing out the baby w/ the bath water." By "plucking out" the transgressors, I am preserving my faith in Christ. I told my new EQ president two weeks ago. "I left the church because the church left Jesus." Maybe you need a reminder:

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.

47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.

Nelson literally told the saints we can place our "complete trust" in these 15 men, a direct contradiction of Christ's words. Nelson promoted an anti-Christian philosophy.

THAT, is the best you've got? Come on, that is nothing. That's like leaving the church for miss spelling your name.

I could list a million scriptures to counter this but i dont have time.

What foundation did Christ say he would build his church on?

Does the Lord not have a church he recognizes today? Which he does, we are way to late in the game to claim there will be another....

Amos 3:7 seems like the Lord has a lot going on , is the Lord lying in this scripture?

[Chris]

I can tell by the way leaders act that they are off course. They tell the members how to live every detail of their lives while saying follow the Holy Ghost. Jesus made it clear we cannot follow God and mammon.
The leaders do not believe we are capable of thinking and acting for ourselves.
Example: they urged us to get vaxxxed. They wouldn’t have said that if they had faith each individual would make a choice appropriate for their life and body.
Example: follow the Holy Ghost…..
But here’s a handbook. Read and follow it please. There’s even a section on how vaxxes are good!
The stake president in our area told the members to read the handbook often. It seems it’s the new scriptures.
People led by the Spirit do not need commanding in all things.

When have you ever met a leader of the church? Have you ever talked to one?

I can tell this because of how they acted like this..... That sounds like a kid in elementary school who doesn't like someone on the bus because they said something you dont like.

I have met several of them, i have been given a blessing by one. I can tell by personal experience they are what they claim to be.

I have had the 2nd comforter and i can tell you nothing compares to that, but i can tell you the Lord IS in control of this CHURCH. ALL the events that are coming are imminent. I am tired trying to convince you guys. I tried, but i strongly suggest you fast and pray about this and do so with an open enough heart to allow the Lord in. Usually people are so convinced they are right, their pride is set and there is no room for the Lord to get through. Just be open to the remote possibility they aren't as bad as you think they are and pray sincerely. I would also recommend reading visions of glory again..... you really all should.

I think you are a good person, a great person. All of you i think are great people. I wish you the best, please pray again....

[Reluctant Watchman]

What foundation did Christ say he would build his church on?

Does the Lord not have a church he recognizes today? Which he does, we are way to late in the game to claim there will be another....

Amos 3:7 seems like the Lord has a lot going on , is the Lord lying in this scripture?

Read 3 Nephi 11 if you want to know about the foundation.

And yes, read 3 Nephi 16:10-11 if you want to know about a transition away from a wicked nation and gentile church.

Read Amos 3:7, the entire chapter is about prophets who were prophesying of the corruption of the nation through wickedness. BTW, this is one of the most abused scriptures by TBMs like yourself. The other would be D&C 1:30.

I hope you wake up before these men drag your soul down to hell.

BTW, the Lord doesn’t take lightly the preaching of false doctrines.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Chris, you’ve had your second comforter, yet you can’t really tell us what the Law of the Gospel is??? Something isn’t adding up.

I’ll ask you again, can a covenant be made in ignorance?

How many men and women enter those fine sanctuaries and are fully prepared to make covenants? How many are taught what those covenants actually are? How many of them are pressured into staying silent in their ignorance due to the pressure from family and friends and the video format? No discussion, no time to let the person make honest commitments and ask questions. None of that happens in the temple.

Also, tell me why the church today does nothing to teach and lead by example in fully living the Law of Consecration?

Ok, I think I’m done with the conversation. Just that fact that you wouldn’t identify who Christ was speaking of in JST Mark 9 (the eye) should have been where I stopped.