Modern Day Apostles & Prophets viewing Christ

[Reluctant Watchman]

I agree with that scripture, and they do council us to pray about anything they say. There have been times when they speak for the Lord. The proclamation on the family being one and a very timely one at that.

Dont worry they will speak the way you want them to speak soon, it isnt to far off.....the day of the gentile is wrapping up, things are about to get interesting

But they've repeatedly told the members that our revelation cannot contradict their revelation.

As far as the family proclamation... I honestly don't know why people think that was inspired. Do we not understand the scriptures?

And I am not holding my breath that they'll change their tune any time soon. They've literally told us to follow Babylon.

[Mamabear]

Here’s what the institute manual says:

“God, has foreknowledge of all calamities (see vv. 2–6), but He never sends a calamity unless He first notifies His prophet of it (see v. 7; see also 2 Nephi 30:17; Jacob 4:8).”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... id=p13#p13

Their teachings testify against against themselves. No prophet was warned about covid and the incoming tyranny.

All we had to do was fast for a vaxxx and a miracle was performed. By the way if I would’ve known the fast was for a poison vaxxx, I wouldn’t have done it.

[DesertWonderer2]

The last apostle that attended our stake conf. was E Anderson. He closed the priesthood meeting session with his testimony. It was very powerful and The Spirit bore witness to me that he had personally experienced Christ. I spoke w another person in attendance and he had the same personal revelation.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The last apostle that attended our stake conf. was E Anderson. He closed the priesthood meeting session with his testimony. It was very powerful and The Spirit bore witness to me that he had personally experienced Christ. I spoke w another person in attendance and he had the same personal revelation.

I often wonder if this "witness" we receive is actually a personal longing that we individually have. The principle of having or seeking a personal witness of Christ is true.

I just don't think alluding to these experiences is of God. If it was ok for the majority of the BoM prophets to testify of these experiences, why can't we now?

[Luke]

In the eyes of God there’s no such thing as “canonised”. “Canon” is an entirely man-made concept. And you should agree, since you reject Section 132, for example.

Ok, fine, you match the terms to language God uses.

How about, the proven word of God versus the precepts of men, or how about, the word that has met God's criteria set forth in scripture versus what hasn't.

Attacking the language is a strawman. We all can read for ourselves. How about applying the Lord's standard:

"And now, behold, I give unto you (Oliver), and also unto my servant Joseph, the keys of this gift, which shall bring to light this ministry; and in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

Of course, you reject the doctrine that "every word" has multiple witnesses, even when said in plain English.

Love you brother, but your Nauvoo doctrines don't have any witnesses.

What counts as witnesses in your view?

In my opinion, the Nauvoo doctrines have many witnesses.

[ransomme]

Thanks for sharing, it gives people something to ponder over.

It's difficult because because these same individuals are quick to use equivalent speech, euphemisms to suggest seeing the Lord without actually saying it.

Why say "apostolic witness" and not say the Lord lives, for I have seen him. That is not a pearls before swine thing. Because pearls are meat and mysteries of the kingdom not open truths like the Savior is resurrected.

And if they are true messengers then they should share the words of God. Honestly if we took their names off of their conferences talks, would we be able to tell the difference between a 70 and a 12? A 12 and a spirit filled blogger?

I am not being a doubting Thomas here either. I am looking for fruits. Testing spirits.

What I am seeing is a corporation and corporate officers. I am seeing lots of friendships with mammon and promotion of mammon's talking points from safe and effective, to sustainability, to agenda 2030, etc. I have literally seen them "restore" the Gospel by survey.

Isaiah, Nephi, Jeremiah, Daniel, and more speak of apostasy just prior to the day of the Lord. They speak of a remnant (and I am in Europe and know little about whatever movements in the states). They speak of things to happen where all is not as well in Zion. So somehow we get from Joseph to the day of the Lord. All will not be well in Zion. I have to ask who is right the scriptures or the current Brotheren? Did they already go away from the path, or is it still in the future?

Yea they speak of your apostacy and the people on this site and others in the church. The great later day apostacy. Ive read the scriptures you guys try to claim show the church is in apostacy. It doesnt say what yall say it says. It is talking about you guys, the unfaithful of the church who turn their backs on it and tge prophets and also our gentile nation who are about to be swept off.....

It fits so perfectly with heber c kimball test prophecy but none of you see it.

You paint with very broad strokes with little to no knowledge about people here and what they "see" or "experience".

So tell me do you believe that the Brethren cannot lead people astray?

You would be surprised what i have "seen" and what i "know"

My answer to your question is yes and no.

They cannot lead us astray when they speak in the name of the Lord. When they officially declare the word of the Lord and yes there will be some event"S" in the next 2.5 years where they do speak in the name of the Lord and the earth will tremble when they do.

When they arent speaking in the name of the Lord yes it is quite possible people could make assumptions about what is said or not said and form their own opinions that can lead to confusion.

I am not a blind follower of every comment spoken by someone, unless it is accompanied by the spirit or it is spoken in the name of the Lord by someone who has authority to do so.

Think the question you are asking is do i think President Nelson is a prophet yes i do

Well you may know more than I, there are many things that I have faith in, even a level of witness about, but few things in which my faith has been perfected into knowledge.

Oh and I was already convinced that you regard RMN as a prophet. Just to be clear I have not received such a witness, nor have I seen him P, S or R anything that I am aware of. I have seen him disregard his hippocratic oath and give unsound medical advice to the worldwide congregation, cloaked in God-invoking words like godsend, pray an unrighteous prayer for the vaccine with his mind already made up and focused on what he wanted and not necessarily what the Lord wanted, rely on the arm of the flesh, slow himself to be idolized and worshipped (see his birthday party and Wendy's speak to Europe in January where she told everyone to be like RMN and do what he does, and more. Someone's he says things that are gospel accurate.

And that's s huge caveat, "when they speak in the name of the Lord", because I haven't heard any of the general authorities claim as much for a long time. Maybe that's why they say apostolic witness, it's kind of a substitute for an actual specific claim because they still fear the Lord.

If you don't blindly follow, then did you get the jab?
Did you think that it is safe and effective?
Do you still think that is safe and effective?

I know many that only got the jab because president Nelson et al. told them to.
Then others who got it for convenience so they could travel and do worldly things.

[blitzinstripes]

The Lord Jesus Christ reveals himself to whom He will. Many non LDS have seen him and been blessed under His hand as well. Don't think for a moment that the LDS have a monopoly on seeing Jesus. I would invite you to have some open and engaging conversations with Christians of other faiths. You don't have to be a Mormon to see Jesus, receive the second comforter, or even to have your calling and election made sure. You don't have to experience this in the temple, and you don't have to receive an ordinance from a Temple president or a GA to have this.

Typical of LDS, we pride ourselves on putting God in our own, neat little boxes and deciding what He can and can't do. It's blasphemous, actually.

[Chris]

Yea they speak of your apostacy and the people on this site and others in the church. The great later day apostacy. Ive read the scriptures you guys try to claim show the church is in apostacy. It doesnt say what yall say it says. It is talking about you guys, the unfaithful of the church who turn their backs on it and tge prophets and also our gentile nation who are about to be swept off.....

It fits so perfectly with heber c kimball test prophecy but none of you see it.

You paint with very broad strokes with little to no knowledge about people here and what they "see" or "experience".

So tell me do you believe that the Brethren cannot lead people astray?

You would be surprised what i have "seen" and what i "know"

My answer to your question is yes and no.

They cannot lead us astray when they speak in the name of the Lord. When they officially declare the word of the Lord and yes there will be some event"S" in the next 2.5 years where they do speak in the name of the Lord and the earth will tremble when they do.

When they arent speaking in the name of the Lord yes it is quite possible people could make assumptions about what is said or not said and form their own opinions that can lead to confusion.

I am not a blind follower of every comment spoken by someone, unless it is accompanied by the spirit or it is spoken in the name of the Lord by someone who has authority to do so.

Think the question you are asking is do i think President Nelson is a prophet yes i do

Well you may know more than I, there are many things that I have faith in, even a level of witness about, but few things in which my faith has been perfected into knowledge.

Oh and I was already convinced that your that's RMN as a prophet. Just to be clear I have not received such a witness, nor have I seen him P, S or R anything that I am aware of. I have seen him disregard his hypocritic oath and give unsound medical advice to the world wide congregation, cloaked in God-invoking words like godsend, pray an unrighteous prayer for the vaccine with his mind already made up and focused on what he wanted and not necessarily what the Lord wanted, rely on the arm of the flesh, slow himself to be idolized and worshipped (see his birthday party and Wendy's speak to Europe in January where she told everyone to be like RMN and do what he does, and more. Someone's he says things that are gospel accurate.

And that's s huge caveat, "when the speak in the name of the Lord", because I haven't heard any of the general authorities claim as much for a long time. Maybe that's why they say apostolic witness, it's kind of a substitute for an actual specific claim because they still fear the Lord.

If you don't blindly follow, then did you get the jab?
Did you think that it is safe and effective?
Do you still think that is safe and effective?

I know many that only got the jab because president Nelson et al. told them to.
Then others who got it for convenience so they could travel and do worldly things.

I did not get the jab, i prayed about it and was told no, dont do it.

I agree it is confusing, i put it up on the shelf and leave it there for the lord.

It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.

I dont have to know all things. I agree it sucks it doesnt look good.

This may have been a 116 page moment.

Or it may have been the angel pulling the sword on joseph telling him he had to start polygamy.

Whatever the reason, i know with certantity he is a prophet, i know the church is true and it is only path forward.

Heber c kimball said a test is coming that would try the best of us. President nelson took it a step further and said it will be impossible to survive spiritually without revelation.

I thank god for the revelation he has given me to stay true and faithfull no matter what.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Citing the words of these men to know that a “test” is coming is a bit shortsighted. I mean, do we not read ANY scriptures? Like, nearly every single canon talks about what’s coming.

[Dusty Wanderer]

Does anybody have access to any relevant material as to what Joseph actually taught in the temple?

I would love to see this outlined somewhere, too; even just a scaffolding with all the unknowns and gaps.

[ransomme]

You paint with very broad strokes with little to no knowledge about people here and what they "see" or "experience".

So tell me do you believe that the Brethren cannot lead people astray?

You would be surprised what i have "seen" and what i "know"

My answer to your question is yes and no.

They cannot lead us astray when they speak in the name of the Lord. When they officially declare the word of the Lord and yes there will be some event"S" in the next 2.5 years where they do speak in the name of the Lord and the earth will tremble when they do.

When they arent speaking in the name of the Lord yes it is quite possible people could make assumptions about what is said or not said and form their own opinions that can lead to confusion.

I am not a blind follower of every comment spoken by someone, unless it is accompanied by the spirit or it is spoken in the name of the Lord by someone who has authority to do so.

Think the question you are asking is do i think President Nelson is a prophet yes i do

Well you may know more than I, there are many things that I have faith in, even a level of witness about, but few things in which my faith has been perfected into knowledge.

Oh and I was already convinced that your that's RMN as a prophet. Just to be clear I have not received such a witness, nor have I seen him P, S or R anything that I am aware of. I have seen him disregard his hypocritic oath and give unsound medical advice to the world wide congregation, cloaked in God-invoking words like godsend, pray an unrighteous prayer for the vaccine with his mind already made up and focused on what he wanted and not necessarily what the Lord wanted, rely on the arm of the flesh, slow himself to be idolized and worshipped (see his birthday party and Wendy's speak to Europe in January where she told everyone to be like RMN and do what he does, and more. Someone's he says things that are gospel accurate.

And that's s huge caveat, "when the speak in the name of the Lord", because I haven't heard any of the general authorities claim as much for a long time. Maybe that's why they say apostolic witness, it's kind of a substitute for an actual specific claim because they still fear the Lord.

If you don't blindly follow, then did you get the jab?
Did you think that it is safe and effective?
Do you still think that is safe and effective?

I know many that only got the jab because president Nelson et al. told them to.
Then others who got it for convenience so they could travel and do worldly things.

I did not get the jab, i prayed about it and was told no, dont do it.

I agree it is confusing, i put it up on the shelf and leave it there for the lord.

It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.

I dont have to know all things. I agree it sucks it doesnt look good.

This may have been a 116 page moment.

Or it may have been the angel pulling the sword on joseph telling him he had to start polygamy.

Whatever the reason, i know with certantity he is a prophet, i know the church is true and it is only path forward.

Heber c kimball said a test is coming that would try the best of us. President nelson took it a step further and said it will be impossible to survive spiritually without revelation.

I thank god for the revelation he has given me to stay true and faithfull no matter what.

hopefully you don't have that horrible mantra in your head, follow the prophet, follow the prophet, follow the prophet

[Mamabear]

“It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.“

A test where they all got it and urged everyone else to do the same? Lying because they new it wasnt safe or effective, like many of us knew?
That wasn’t a test. A test would’ve been if they said “we cannot advise you what to do, each person needs to follow the dictates of their own conscience.”
A test would’ve been “have faith in your body and take care of it. Rely on God to see you through this pandemic.”

[Reluctant Watchman]

Does anybody have access to any relevant material as to what Joseph actually taught in the temple?

I would love to see this outlined somewhere, too; even just a scaffolding with all the unknowns and gaps.

The lack of replies to this request is quite unfortunate. But not surprising.

[simpleton]

There are some things "to sacred to talk about", but it is requisite that a representative of JC personally know Him. Its not optional, it is absolutely requisite. That is the pattern established at the beginning. Joseph and Oliver very plainly established that. And also after, that you are required to bare witness of the fact.. That same requirement is eternal.
Joseph plainly proclaimed that he saw Him and the Father, to the world. And what did the world do? Especially the representatives of the "harlot daughters", relentlessly, viciously pursued Joseph till they succeeded in killing him.
Today's supposed apostles can't even say they have seen Him because they have not.
Christ most definitely called the temple in his day "My Father's House" but He also told the leaders of that House, the PSR, and all of the representatives that they would not make it into His kingdom and that they were corrupt as hell itself. Oh, and that temple was destroyed.
That is what we have today, a bunch of self righteous Pharisees and Saducees.

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Quite a similiar description of our day and church.

But I still feel it is actually His church, to be "set back in order" by this OMAS.
Not by any of the fakers proclaiming on this site.

[Lizzy60]

“It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.“

Actually, it may HAVE been a mistake, it may HAVE been a test.

Sorry, pet peeve. I am seeing this written mistake more and more. I understand that “have” can sound like “of” depending on a person’s accent, but written —— it doesn’t make sense.

Okay, back to the point. If it was a mistake, it was one that is causing injury, infertility and death among members of the church. If it was a test to see if members would ignore RMN and ask God instead........well a great many members utterly failed. And it wasn’t just the August letter. It was Rasband in Africa, it was Renlund, it was every Area Presidency, it was Bednar, it was all of them. Not a single general authority has said that he asked God and didn’t get the jab.

It was get the jab or you’ll be released as a patriarch. It was get the jab or you can’t go to BYU, on a mission, or sing in the Tab Choir. There’s more and it’s all documented in real time on this forum..

This “test” was not set up by the Lord, and this “mistake” is a deadly one.

[Shawn Henry]

What counts as witnesses in your view?

In my opinion, the Nauvoo doctrines have many witnesses.

A scriptural/spiritual witness not a legal witness. So, basically when God witnesses to a person.

Your Nauvoo witnesses are not spiritual witnesses that God sent. They can witness that they saw or heard Joseph teach something, but that doesn't mean that the spirit witnesses it to them.

Both Oliver and Sidney were called by God to be witnesses to Joseph. It is a calling from God whenever new doctrines or scripture are given. Oliver and Sidney fulfill the doctrine that every word is established by two or three witnesses. This is the whole reason for Moses and Joseph having a spokesman. The spokesman was to speak for them by the spirit as a confirmation because they were both teaching new things.

Think of what qualified the 3 or 8 witnesses to be witnesses. They were given a special spiritual conformation of what they were to testify of. If they had only been a legal witness without the spiritual component, they would have simply testified that they saw a printed BoM or they saw Joseph teach the BoM or saw him translate. The witness is spiritual.

It is also important to note that this calling as a witness is known to the church.

Also remember, it is when the word is established, meaning at the beginning, that we get the witnesses, which means a BY post-established witness is not a witness. It seems highly out of order that Joseph would bring something forth, only to not witness it, but we are then to believe that the Lord sends BY to correct Joseph's failure.

[DesertWonderer2]

The last apostle that attended our stake conf. was E Anderson. He closed the priesthood meeting session with his testimony. It was very powerful and The Spirit bore witness to me that he had personally experienced Christ. I spoke w another person in attendance and he had the same personal revelation.

I often wonder if this "witness" we receive is actually a personal longing that we individually have. The principle of having or seeking a personal witness of Christ is true.

Not in this case.

I just don't think alluding to these experiences is of God. If it was ok for the majority of the BoM prophets to testify of these experiences, why can't we now.

There are many reasons why they would not and they ave been enumerated ad neauseum.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The last apostle that attended our stake conf. was E Anderson. He closed the priesthood meeting session with his testimony. It was very powerful and The Spirit bore witness to me that he had personally experienced Christ. I spoke w another person in attendance and he had the same personal revelation.

I often wonder if this "witness" we receive is actually a personal longing that we individually have. The principle of having or seeking a personal witness of Christ is true.

Not in this case.

I just don't think alluding to these experiences is of God. If it was ok for the majority of the BoM prophets to testify of these experiences, why can't we now.

There are many reasons why they would not and they ave been enumerated ad neauseum.

One of those "enumerations" being they might be lying. Make sure you add that to the list.

[Chris]

“It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.“

A test where they all got it and urged everyone else to do the same? Lying because they new it wasnt safe or effective, like many of us knew?
That wasn’t a test. A test would’ve been if they said “we cannot advise you what to do, each person needs to follow the dictates of their own conscience.”
A test would’ve been “have faith in your body and take care of it. Rely on God to see you through this pandemic.”

When i was praying about what to do and debating it, i prayed hard. I heard a voice say. " The prophet wants people to take it serious, you take it serious, you will be okay."

The audible voice did not condemn the prophet, but it did sustain what the prophet was trying to communicate. Whether it was a mistake or not, the prophet was not trying to hurt anyone.

Ultimatley he told all of us to pray about it, that is what everyone should have done.

I know someone who heard a voice saying to get the jab. They likely would have lost their job if they had not.

I also know someone very well who was really struggling with the vax and was told the letter was written soley for the purpose to keep things going with missionary work.

Fact of the matter is this is the TEST Heber C Kimball talked about. IT is touching and affecting everyone on this planet. The question is who will leave and who will stay. Sounds like a pretty good test to me.




"After a while the gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world.

A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage."

An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events.

All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible.

Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. "Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. ...

The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews.

The western boundaries of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitant that as President Young tells us, 'when we return to that place there will not be as much as a yellow dog to wag his tail.'

Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to the test that will try the very best of them.

The pressure will become so great that the righteous among us will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes."

"Yes, we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills, where we can close the doors of the canyons against mobs and persecutors, the wicked and the vile, who have always beset us with violence and robbery, but I want to say to you, my brethren, that the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God.

Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great shifting time, and many will fall.

For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming."

This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory.

The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you mist live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it.

Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within themselves. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand?"

I had a experience in 2015, i sent it to a Apostle in 2019. They wrote me back and in 2019 and said it is all about to start..... They know all of this.

Many try to overlook "Home Based, Church Supported" But that was revelation to get us ready and prepared for COVID and what comes next.

[Mamabear]

“It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.“

A test where they all got it and urged everyone else to do the same? Lying because they new it wasnt safe or effective, like many of us knew?
That wasn’t a test. A test would’ve been if they said “we cannot advise you what to do, each person needs to follow the dictates of their own conscience.”
A test would’ve been “have faith in your body and take care of it. Rely on God to see you through this pandemic.”

When i was praying about what to do and debating it, i prayed hard. I heard a voice say. " The prophet wants people to take it serious, you take it serious, you will be okay."

The audible voice did not condemn the prophet, but it did sustain what the prophet was trying to communicate. Whether it was a mistake or not, the prophet was not trying to hurt anyone.

Ultimatley he told all of us to pray about it, that is what everyone should have done.

I know someone who heard a voice saying to get the jab. They likely would have lost their job if they had not.

I also know someone very well who was really struggling with the vax and was told the letter was written soley for the purpose to keep things going with missionary work.

Fact of the matter is this is the TEST Heber C Kimball talked about. IT is touching and affecting everyone on this planet. The question is who will leave and who will stay. Sounds like a pretty good test to me.




"After a while the gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world.

A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage."

An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events.

All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible.

Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. "Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. ...

The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews.

The western boundaries of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitant that as President Young tells us, 'when we return to that place there will not be as much as a yellow dog to wag his tail.'

Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to the test that will try the very best of them.

The pressure will become so great that the righteous among us will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes."

"Yes, we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills, where we can close the doors of the canyons against mobs and persecutors, the wicked and the vile, who have always beset us with violence and robbery, but I want to say to you, my brethren, that the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God.

Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great shifting time, and many will fall.

For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming."

This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory.

The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you mist live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it.

Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within themselves. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand?"

I had a experience in 2015, i sent it to a Apostle in 2019. They wrote me back and in 2019 and said it is all about to start..... They know all of this.

Many try to overlook "Home Based, Church Supported" But that was revelation to get us ready and prepared for COVID and what comes next.

I’ve read this end of days theory before. There are discrepancies between it and the scriptures.
I took one look at the leaders hiding behind their masks, excessive vaxxx statements and other gaslighting moments at October 2021 Conference and said, these are not the leaders who will lead people through anything. They were afraid of illness and death. True prophets are the opposite, they walk through affliction, persecution and anything else knowing that this life is temporary, as witnessed throughout the scriptures. I don’t think that when society and communication break down and more illnesses are poured out, we will find the Q15 leading people anywhere…except leading people to follow corrupt governments.

If this was a test, it was a test to see if people would wake up and see how Marxist and corrupt their religious and political leaders are.

As far as home based church, during 2020 and 2021 we watched church on zoom each Sunday like the rest of the members. We were already reading scriptures as a family and we didn’t need a watered down manual to tell us how to interpret the scriptures.
Our church was the very last in our area to open the doors and let people worship. That says a lot.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Follow the profit…

[Chris]

“It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.“

A test where they all got it and urged everyone else to do the same? Lying because they new it wasnt safe or effective, like many of us knew?
That wasn’t a test. A test would’ve been if they said “we cannot advise you what to do, each person needs to follow the dictates of their own conscience.”
A test would’ve been “have faith in your body and take care of it. Rely on God to see you through this pandemic.”

When i was praying about what to do and debating it, i prayed hard. I heard a voice say. " The prophet wants people to take it serious, you take it serious, you will be okay."

The audible voice did not condemn the prophet, but it did sustain what the prophet was trying to communicate. Whether it was a mistake or not, the prophet was not trying to hurt anyone.

Ultimatley he told all of us to pray about it, that is what everyone should have done.

I know someone who heard a voice saying to get the jab. They likely would have lost their job if they had not.

I also know someone very well who was really struggling with the vax and was told the letter was written soley for the purpose to keep things going with missionary work.

Fact of the matter is this is the TEST Heber C Kimball talked about. IT is touching and affecting everyone on this planet. The question is who will leave and who will stay. Sounds like a pretty good test to me.




"After a while the gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world.

A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage."

An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events.

All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible.

Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. "Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. ...

The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews.

The western boundaries of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitant that as President Young tells us, 'when we return to that place there will not be as much as a yellow dog to wag his tail.'

Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to the test that will try the very best of them.

The pressure will become so great that the righteous among us will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes."

"Yes, we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills, where we can close the doors of the canyons against mobs and persecutors, the wicked and the vile, who have always beset us with violence and robbery, but I want to say to you, my brethren, that the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God.

Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great shifting time, and many will fall.

For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming."

This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory.

The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you mist live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it.

Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within themselves. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand?"

I had a experience in 2015, i sent it to a Apostle in 2019. They wrote me back and in 2019 and said it is all about to start..... They know all of this.

Many try to overlook "Home Based, Church Supported" But that was revelation to get us ready and prepared for COVID and what comes next.

I’ve read this end of days theory before. There are discrepancies between it and the scriptures.
I took one look at the leaders hiding behind their masks, excessive vaxxx statements and other gaslighting moments at October 2021 Conference and said, these are not the leaders who will lead people through anything. They were afraid of illness and death. True prophets are the opposite, they walk through affliction, persecution and anything else knowing that this life is temporary, as witnessed throughout the scriptures. I don’t think that when society and communication break down and more illnesses are poured out, we will find the Q15 leading people anywhere…except leading people to follow corrupt governments.

If this was a test, it was a test to see if people would wake up and see how Marxist and corrupt their religious and political leaders are.

As far as home based church, during 2020 and 2021 we watched church on zoom each Sunday like the rest of the members. We were already reading scriptures as a family and we didn’t need a watered down manual to tell us how to interpret the scriptures.
Our church was the very last in our area to open the doors and let people worship. That says a lot.

There are no discrepancies.... over and over, you guys try to justify and find fault........ Lucifer is the great accuser of the brethren and has been from the beginning, so sad so very very sad.

You know if someone has questions they should search in the scriptures and through prayer and the Lord will help them work it out ( not come to places like this ). If the church or i guess better word is, if the prophets are fallen, as you claim and you stick with the church and your covenants and God fixes these supposed issues that arent there, but for sake of argument lets say they are. You still keep your reward right? If everything you people talk about on this site is true, well if you honor your covenants and have questions and leave it to the Lord. Well you still make it right? Yes you do, you can question and still go to church.

But if you are wrong, If the church is as the BOM says, As Joseph Says As all the Prophets from Adam till now say, and you turn your back on your covenants you have made at baptism and in the temple, well God is very clear what happens. It is one of the most clear themes throughout all of scripture.

So i know the church is true, I know he is a prophet in good standing and i also know what comes next. However if i lost my faith in the brethren and if i had questions i would never turn my back on my covenants and i would always under all circumstances live them and raise my arm to the square..

Because i know that is the only safe and rational path to take. So i ask all the people on this site. Why in the world would you risk it?

The scriptures, temple covenants, and words of the prophets from the beginning of time all point to you guys being wrong.

Joseph says you are wrong. He said sticking with the majority of the 12 is the key that will never rust, it will always fit the lock. So why risk it.

Why ignore daniels prophecy about this church and joseph here
“The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.”

I dont know how you guys can risk your salvation and that of your kids and families and such a weird twisted doctrine that makes no sense.

But God Bless, i hope he helps all yall work it out.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Lucifer is the great accuser of the brethren and has been from the beginning, so sad so very very sad.

Oh, come on. You can't honestly say that with a straight face knowing what ancient prophets prophesied about our day. I mean, how do you justify Jeremiah 23? How about Isaiah 56? I could add a very significant list of additional scriptures that all witness to the dereliction, pride, and/or corruption of later-day servants.

[Mamabear]

“It may of been a mistake, it may of been a test.“

A test where they all got it and urged everyone else to do the same? Lying because they new it wasnt safe or effective, like many of us knew?
That wasn’t a test. A test would’ve been if they said “we cannot advise you what to do, each person needs to follow the dictates of their own conscience.”
A test would’ve been “have faith in your body and take care of it. Rely on God to see you through this pandemic.”

When i was praying about what to do and debating it, i prayed hard. I heard a voice say. " The prophet wants people to take it serious, you take it serious, you will be okay."

The audible voice did not condemn the prophet, but it did sustain what the prophet was trying to communicate. Whether it was a mistake or not, the prophet was not trying to hurt anyone.

Ultimatley he told all of us to pray about it, that is what everyone should have done.

I know someone who heard a voice saying to get the jab. They likely would have lost their job if they had not.

I also know someone very well who was really struggling with the vax and was told the letter was written soley for the purpose to keep things going with missionary work.

Fact of the matter is this is the TEST Heber C Kimball talked about. IT is touching and affecting everyone on this planet. The question is who will leave and who will stay. Sounds like a pretty good test to me.




"After a while the gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world.

A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage."

An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events.

All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible.

Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. "Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. ...

The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews.

The western boundaries of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitant that as President Young tells us, 'when we return to that place there will not be as much as a yellow dog to wag his tail.'

Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to the test that will try the very best of them.

The pressure will become so great that the righteous among us will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes."

"Yes, we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills, where we can close the doors of the canyons against mobs and persecutors, the wicked and the vile, who have always beset us with violence and robbery, but I want to say to you, my brethren, that the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God.

Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great shifting time, and many will fall.

For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming."

This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory.

The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you mist live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it.

Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within themselves. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand?"

I had a experience in 2015, i sent it to a Apostle in 2019. They wrote me back and in 2019 and said it is all about to start..... They know all of this.

Many try to overlook "Home Based, Church Supported" But that was revelation to get us ready and prepared for COVID and what comes next.

I’ve read this end of days theory before. There are discrepancies between it and the scriptures.
I took one look at the leaders hiding behind their masks, excessive vaxxx statements and other gaslighting moments at October 2021 Conference and said, these are not the leaders who will lead people through anything. They were afraid of illness and death. True prophets are the opposite, they walk through affliction, persecution and anything else knowing that this life is temporary, as witnessed throughout the scriptures. I don’t think that when society and communication break down and more illnesses are poured out, we will find the Q15 leading people anywhere…except leading people to follow corrupt governments.

If this was a test, it was a test to see if people would wake up and see how Marxist and corrupt their religious and political leaders are.

As far as home based church, during 2020 and 2021 we watched church on zoom each Sunday like the rest of the members. We were already reading scriptures as a family and we didn’t need a watered down manual to tell us how to interpret the scriptures.
Our church was the very last in our area to open the doors and let people worship. That says a lot.

There are no discrepancies.... over and over, you guys try to justify and find fault........ Lucifer is the great accuser of the brethren and has been from the beginning, so sad so very very sad.

You know if someone has questions they should search in the scriptures and through prayer and the Lord will help them work it out ( not come to places like this ). If the church or i guess better word is, if the prophets are fallen, as you claim and you stick with the church and your covenants and God fixes these supposed issues that arent there, but for sake of argument lets say they are. You still keep your reward right? If everything you people talk about on this site is true, well if you honor your covenants and have questions and leave it to the Lord. Well you still make it right? Yes you do, you can question and still go to church.

But if you are wrong, If the church is as the BOM says, As Joseph Says As all the Prophets from Adam till now say, and you turn your back on your covenants you have made at baptism and in the temple, well God is very clear what happens. It is one of the most clear themes throughout all of scripture.

So i know the church is true, I know he is a prophet in good standing and i also know what comes next. However if i lost my faith in the brethren and if i had questions i would never turn my back on my covenants and i would always under all circumstances live them and raise my arm to the square..

Because i know that is the only safe and rational path to take. So i ask all the people on this site. Why in the world would you risk it?

The scriptures, temple covenants, and words of the prophets from the beginning of time all point to you guys being wrong.

Joseph says you are wrong. He said sticking with the majority of the 12 is the key that will never rust, it will always fit the lock. So why risk it.

Why ignore daniels prophecy about this church and joseph here
“The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.”

I dont know how you guys can risk your salvation and that of your kids and families and such a weird twisted doctrine that makes no sense.

But God Bless, i hope he helps all yall work it out.

I’m not finding fault. I took the issues which plagued my mind, prayed and I received answers multiple times. The Lord showed me things I never even considered or knew of. My salvation is rooted in Christ and not in men or a church.

False prophets were in the past and are also in the present:
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Ezekiel 14
Ezekiel 34
Isaiah 28 & 29
Jeremiah 5:30-31
Ephesians 4:14
2 Peter 2:1-3
Isaiah 56:10-12
Jeremiah 5:30-31
Real prophets have never nor will ever say “follow us, we can never lead you astray.”
This is a sure sign of false prophets.

“I dont know how you guys can risk your salvation and that of your kids and families and such a weird twisted doctrine that makes no sense.”
I have no idea what this means. If weird twisted doctrine is studying the scriptures, asking relevant and honest questions, critically thinking, praying, and seeking answers, then I guess that’s me and many others on here.

[Chris]

Lucifer is the great accuser of the brethren and has been from the beginning, so sad so very very sad.

Oh, come on. You can't honestly say that with a straight face knowing what ancient prophets prophesied about our day. I mean, how do you justify Jeremiah 23? How about Isaiah 56? I could add a very significant list of additional scriptures that all witness to the dereliction, pride, and/or corruption of later-day servants.

It does not, you are putting your interpretation on that. That is not what the scriptures say. Most of it is speaking of our nation and the more specifics have to do with all supposed preachers who dont do as they should. No where does it single out the Lords church or the lords ordained prophets. That is soley your speculation.